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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 19:27:17
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Oh, so you enjoyed "The Fractured Sky"?
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 19:33:42
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Or, those pesky designers left some things for us to run with for EIGHT YEARS!!
Sorry you didn't get around to dealing with the realistic fallout of ToT.
In my campaign, we did.
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
In fact, even the ToT had far less impact then it should have (gods walk the earth, a bunch die, a few new ones are 'born'.... and the next day its business-as-usual... YEAH... RIIIIGHT....). the religious shake-up alone should have been catastrophic... but it wasn't.
Or do we just not have much detail about it, with the habitual focus on flash, bang, never mind the aftermath? (An approach that may have been commercially/culturally in tune, if the comments in reviews of Peter Jackson's Return of the King about 'multiple endings' are anything to go by.) When we don't know what the effects of particular things were, and we don't necessarily know whether their authors know, the situation is indeterminate.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 19:49:40
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Can we please end this episode of "All My Trolldren"? I'm in full agreement with MT that opinions are subjective, and since RSE is not a UNIVERSALLY defined term by any manes, it is pointless to attack someone's opinion on what EXACTLY constitutes an RSE, when no one can quite agree on what that is. Unless one feels like attacking every other poster in here just because their ideas of RSE's differ....
And if you REALLY want a good example of an RSE(okay, it's not FR, but the biggest one I can possibly think of) it's Krynn's Cataclysm. It really DID "shatter" a world!!! |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 16 Nov 2010 19:53:10 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 20:03:37
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lol, actually I'm sitting back and kind of having a chuckle.
Wanna define an RSE? It's something new, something that changes what people knew before. The problem is that some fans <ahem> just can't accept change and will drown themselves in vitriolic screaming about how it's wrong.
Wondering how long it'll take Sage to padlock this tome and ban using "RSE" in new scroll titles, personally ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 20:10:00
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Even though I'm a little afraid of you, Allystra, after you assaulted me sexually, I must retort.
While opinions * are* subjective, reality is not. I could say that I am of the opinion that the sky is made of lead, but it wouldn't take long before someone informed me that the sky was, indeed, not made of lead.
The Topic at Hand is RSEs. RSEs are those events in the publishing history of the Realms that significantly effected the Realms, and were implemented by the designers to significantly effect the Realms.
Simple.
Now, how about we split some more hairs?
The Forgotten Realms Campaign setting includes the REAL Earth. So, how about we include WWII as a RSE? WWII had an effect on Ed's Dad, and so Ed by extension... And since Ed has contact with El... Or maybe Woodstock? We know that Filfaeril and Storm were at Woodstock... Was Woodstock an RSE?
C'mon, Allystra. If you don't have something to say regarding the Original Topic, maybe you could just go and attempt to sexually assault someone else for a change? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 20:13:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
And if you REALLY want a good example of an RSE(okay, it's not FR, but the biggest one I can possibly think of) it's Krynn's Cataclysm. It really DID "shatter" a world!!!
You haven't figured it out, Alystra? Krynn IS Toril - thats The Sundering right there. 
In fact, I figured-out that ALL D&D worlds are just 'echoes' of one world - all the "What If's" and "might-have-been's". Those are all just alternate quantum universes (that's what crystal spheres are - pieces of reality that have broken-off the main timeline and diverged into their own sub-realities).
quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
I'm posting from work. I work on a framing crew, and I get a lot of down-time, since our material guy is so slow.
Great Azoun's Ghost! 
We have something in-common! I did framing for 3 months (when finish-work wasn't available). HATED it - I tip my hat to you sir (thats some damn brutal work).
quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
Oh, so you enjoyed "The Fractured Sky"?
Nope - but the shear amount of backlash-posting on the WotC site gave me a pretty good idea of what went on there.
When it comes to D&D, I ONLY read FR novels. I tried both a GH and an Eberron novel, and didn't care for either.
If it takes place outside of Faerūn (or Evermeet or the Hordelands), it is NOT an FR novel... sorry.
***SPOILER ALERT***
Which is why I didn't care for the second half of Corsair either - it left the setting and entered an entirely different one. That novel was still a good read though; I wouldn't not recommend it on that point. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Nov 2010 20:21:55 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 21:51:10
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I don't seem to recall and CANON lore of Earth being included in the Realms. Oh, wait- there ISN'T any. Guess we can rule that out. Wow, Storm was at Woodstock? I take it you SAW her? If that's the case, I want pictures!
And "reality" is not an issue in this discussion, since we are after all, debating- a term I prefer since it's SOO much more civilized than arguing- an imaginary world. Reality has nothing to do with the topic at hand. It's all pure opinion regarding which events constitute an RSE.
And on the topic at hand- I'd say that by that definition, Szass Tam farting and thereby tainting all of Thay would- if t'were published- be considered an RSE. (Though I would NOT want to be there!!) I did indeed have something to say on the subject, for those who have paid attention. And as an aside, it appears some folks can't even be bothered enought to spell another poster's username properly, which I frankly find shocking, since it's right there in the side bar....
*Ahem* MT, that is a really interesting way of looking at it! Hmmm, that might explain the proliferation of elves, dwarves, and what-not in fantasy realms. It also fits into my alternate realities being the source of Earth myth and legend theory from a while back. Must have been from before the Sundering.
Speaking of which- I'd like to submit the Sundering itself as an RSE- since it IS part of the published history, and did indeed have an immediate AND long-lasting effact the Realms as a whole, and it quite literally "Shattered" Toril!
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The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2010 : 23:14:25
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Allystra is kind of pretty, actually. 
[Edit: loool, sorry, I just couldn't resist]
[/troll] |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 16 Nov 2010 23:15:53 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 00:24:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
Even though I'm a little afraid of you, Allystra, after you assaulted me sexually, I must retort.
While opinions * are* subjective, reality is not. I could say that I am of the opinion that the sky is made of lead, but it wouldn't take long before someone informed me that the sky was, indeed, not made of lead.
The Topic at Hand is RSEs. RSEs are those events in the publishing history of the Realms that significantly effected the Realms, and were implemented by the designers to significantly effect the Realms.
Simple.
Now, how about we split some more hairs?
The Forgotten Realms Campaign setting includes the REAL Earth. So, how about we include WWII as a RSE? WWII had an effect on Ed's Dad, and so Ed by extension... And since Ed has contact with El... Or maybe Woodstock? We know that Filfaeril and Storm were at Woodstock... Was Woodstock an RSE?
C'mon, Allystra. If you don't have something to say regarding the Original Topic, maybe you could just go and attempt to sexually assault someone else for a change?
That's quite enough of that, Acolyte!  I'm only asking you once. I'll be taking private issue with several other scribes in this scroll. But your post has certainly rattled my virtual cage specifically. Please stop. If you've issues such as this that need to be resolved, I suggest taking them to PM or email. Do Not post them publicly.
...
And further, I'm posting a general warning in this scroll for readers/participants who are under the mistaken impression that it is okay to categorise groups they may disagree with. Such conduct will not be tolerated.
Keep it clean, keep it civil, and respect the opinions of others.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 03:25:19
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| Does WotC have a list of Official RSEs? 'Cause if they do, perhaps we should better stick to it so as not to argue whether what we think is an RSE is really an RSE. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 04:33:53
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Does WotC have a list of Official RSEs? 'Cause if they do, perhaps we should better stick to it so as not to argue whether what we think is an RSE is really an RSE.
Not that I know of. In fact, I'd assume that even official Wizards folk probably have differing views on what actually constitutes an RSE and what doesn't.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 04:35:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Allystra is kind of pretty, actually.
[Edit: loool, sorry, I just couldn't resist]
[/troll]
Aww, that's sweet of you Arik. *pats Arik on head and gives him a cookie*  Lol! Ok, enough mushy crap- So does anyone have thoughts on the Sundering as an RSE? Seems like a pretty big one to me, even if it was pretty far back. But since it WAS described in Evermeet, technically it qualifies. At least by the strict "published history having a great effect" definition. Dunno about any other deffys. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 17 Nov 2010 04:36:58 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 05:11:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Does WotC have a list of Official RSEs? 'Cause if they do, perhaps we should better stick to it so as not to argue whether what we think is an RSE is really an RSE.
Not that I know of. In fact, I'd assume that even official Wizards folk probably have differing views on what actually constitutes an RSE and what doesn't.
I see. I'd stick to my own definition then.
quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
So does anyone have thoughts on the Sundering as an RSE? Seems like a pretty big one to me, even if it was pretty far back. But since it WAS described in Evermeet, technically it qualifies. At least by the strict "published history having a great effect" definition. Dunno about any other deffys.
I think you knew I never read Evermeet, nor have any plan to (at least at the moment), so I'm basing my 'judgment' on what I read about it in other sources. Yes, I think it's an RSE. Faerun's coast was destroyed by tremendous earthquakes and floods. Countless elven settlements were destroyed. Atorrnash was reduced to ruins. Many dark elves died. This event has both short and long effects not only to the elves, but to not a few other Faerunians as well. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 17 Nov 2010 05:13:09 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 05:43:15
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Does WotC have a list of Official RSEs? 'Cause if they do, perhaps we should better stick to it so as not to argue whether what we think is an RSE is really an RSE.
Not that I know of. In fact, I'd assume that even official Wizards folk probably have differing views on what actually constitutes an RSE and what doesn't.
I see. I'd stick to my own definition then.
Really, I'd say that's the best alternative. Especially so if you regularly campaign in the Realms setting. Only you, as the DM, can decide just what definition appropriately reflects the nature of an RSE for your campaign.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 05:56:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Does WotC have a list of Official RSEs? 'Cause if they do, perhaps we should better stick to it so as not to argue whether what we think is an RSE is really an RSE.
Not that I know of. In fact, I'd assume that even official Wizards folk probably have differing views on what actually constitutes an RSE and what doesn't.
I see. I'd stick to my own definition then.
Really, I'd say that's the best alternative. Especially so if you regularly campaign in the Realms setting. Only you, as the DM, can decide just what definition appropriately reflects the nature of an RSE for your campaign.
Oh, I don't game. How I wish I could find the time... Haven't you noticed? I very rarely participated in threads that deal with game mechanics, or however you call it. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 15:54:05
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quote:
The Sage
Only you, as the DM, can decide just what definition appropriately reflects the nature of an RSE for your campaign.
Of course, you never know when everything might be abruptly turned on its head by the introduction of new written lore.
[Edit: Yay, I got a cookie! Booya!] |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 17 Nov 2010 18:48:01 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 18:51:32
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THE definition is something that altered the Realms in a significant way and took place during the game setting (NOT novel, because stories take place at all different points in time).
That is what an RSE IS.
MY POINT was that different people will feel differently about various RSE's (as to weather 'they count') dependent upon when they first began learning about the Realms, and also WHERE their main area of concern is.
Aco13 is correct in that reality is reality, but how we judge things (which is THE TOPIC of this thread) is HIGHLY subjective. We can only base our opinions on what we know, NOT what we don't know (which is why there is so much hatred in the world - people learn from their environment).
For instance, a bank gets robbed, and there are 17 witnesses. Each gives a very different accounting of the events (this happens all the time), including wildly disparate descriptions of the perpetrators.
Only ONE reality took place there, yet everyone saw something completely different. We CAN NOT 'filter-out' our own pre-conditioning.
Ergo, reality itself becomes highly subjective.
Since I am a huge fan of The Hordelands (a highly under-appreciated region), I will tend to look at the Tuigan War as an RSE, even though most folks wouldn't even remember to add that to their list. After the war, Azoun was atempting to create an Empire that included the Dales and Sembia (betcha a lot of you either forgot or never knew that). Had he been able to pull THAT off in the aftermath, then the Tuigan War would have assuredly made everyone's list of RSE's. Unfortunately, those plans never saw fruition (thanks to to the events of the devil-dragon AND the appearance of Shade), so any long-term/reaching effects never really manifested. As far as it being an RSE, it 'shook' very little.
So was it an RSE? YES
Did it count? NO |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2010 18:53:47 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2010 : 19:07:51
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Whereas in my campaign the emphasis of the Tuigan Horde was on what happened in Thay. Azoun's Crusade was just a distant (and vaguely uninteresting) follow up, more about policing the map than forging an empire. Hardly an RSE in my perception (more of a mini-campaign thing, like Pool of Radiance), though I've mentioned that before - and I always understood other people viewing the horde as an RSE of import.
I approve of your multiple-witness analogy, it seems to cleverly summarize, validate, and explain everybody's RSE arguments. |
[/Ayrik] |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2010 : 01:21:48
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| The Year of Rogue Dragons |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 06:15:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
THE definition is something that altered the Realms in a significant way and took place during the game setting (NOT novel, because stories take place at all different points in time).
I concur. Except the game part.
I see WotC's failure to make an official list of RSEs as some sort of a problem. How do we qualify 'significant' in your definition? How do we know that what we believe is an RSE is really an RSE? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 24 Nov 2010 06:16:57 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 06:37:51
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It's not in Wizbro's best interests to compile (or comment on) such a list, if you think about it from their point of view. Hardly a "failure" to acknowledge the topic; WotC don't want (or need) to waste time justifying themselves to rabid packs of pitbulls.
This is perhaps the most civil discussion about RSEs I've read, in this or any other forum. Yet even still there is constant bickering and disagreement, tempers and passions flare, people can hardly even agree on terminology. WotC's responsibility is to keep piloting the helm, not to keep looking back at any victims who've fallen overboard or drowned in their wake. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 06:41:51
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
THE definition is something that altered the Realms in a significant way and took place during the game setting (NOT novel, because stories take place at all different points in time).
I concur. Except the game part.
I see WotC's failure to make an official list of RSEs as some sort of a problem. How do we qualify 'significant' in your definition? How do we know that what we believe is an RSE is really an RSE?
Because RSE is a fan term, and it only matters to us. I don't know when it came out, but I believe (please, don't quote me) that it was used to describe the series of bigger and bigger events taking place in 3E trilogies, and was used as a blanket term for all of them.
Other than that, what's the effect of an RSE? Wizbro, and by extention their authors, can simply look at the effects on the Realms without having to know that, oh that this is this way because of an RSE, while that is that way because of something entirely different.
If anyone's going to want a definition of RSE's, it's the fans who came up with the term, not anyone else.
Apologies if any of my assumptions are wrong; this is what I seem to have read about happening, while others here have lived through all this, and I defer to their knowledge entirely, should I be incorrect. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 06:51:07
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| Hmm, I thought RSE is WotC's term. I must have been somewhere else in the vast Multiverse when the fans coined that word. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 07:06:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
It's not much different than the WSE's (world-shattering events) often seen in comics. Civil War, Infinite Earth Crisis, One More Day, Dark Reign, etc..... These are all WSE's for their respective universes.
Of course, those examples are in varying degrees. The after-effects of both Civil War and Dark Reign have been largely negated now, with the rise of the Heroic Age. The various Crisis sagas for DC though, and Spider-Man's One More Day/One Moment In Time, are truly worthwhile examples of comic WSE's however.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 Nov 2010 07:08:18 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 07:17:24
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| A suggestion, Sage: Include in the CC the RSEs from all editions. Perhaps dividing them into minor and major. The minor shall consist of those which have short-term effects to a few realms; while the major ones shall be composed of those that shook A NUMBER of realms and whose effects are either short- or long-term. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 07:19:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Hmmm, I don't know that I'd call either of those WORTHWHILE. They certainly qualify, though. What's Heroic Age? I've been out of the comic loop for almost a year, except for the fairly recent travesty that was One Moment in Time. I actually cried, the ending was so bad...
It's kinda the Marvel equivalent of DC's Brightest Day -- Osborn's in jail, the old Avengers are back, Captain America and Iron Man are friends again, and evil is back to cowering in the shadows.
See here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroic_Age_%28comics%29 |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 07:21:35
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
A suggestion, Sage: Include in the CC the RSEs from all editions. Perhaps dividing them into minor and major. The minor shall consist of those which have short-term effects to a few realms; while the major ones shall be composed of those that shook A NUMBER of realms and whose effects are either short- or long-term.
I've actually been thinking about that, along with a host of other updates for the Code of Conduct.
Strangely, I've got a number of definitions for an RSE in my oft-quoted Candlekeep's Guide to Forgotten Realms FAQ.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 24 Nov 2010 07:22:43 |
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The Most Sensible and Well-done RSE
