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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 05:19:50
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Part of the agreement for this game was that we want the DM to challenge us. just as we challenge the DM. So we expect to have to fight someone who has the 'key' to get past our defenses at some point, or does stuff we don't really expect.
In general, the best way to fight these characters is "Wizards working together"
Oh, look, the characters *hate* Thay and plan on fighting Thay! Wonderful, we just gave DM an excuse to target us with lots of spells and hyperintelligent, utterly evil people who will study and research us and do scry and fry and take hostages and so on and so forth. |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 05:32:52
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And when you tell people how you destroyed Thay, and they asked you how, all your going to be able to say is
"Well, the DM gave us these uber buffs that lasted 24/7, so didn't have to use any spell slots on that, and uh, more gear, and uh, used a bunch of house rules to make us more powerful! We just had to roll a percentile and that's how many Red Wizards we killed! It was AWESOME! The bard rolled a d8, and got an 8 and that's how many Zulkers he killed as a free action! WOOO!
Granted, not to THAT extreme, but that's basically what it is. Few spells can affect you. Your saving throws can beat most of them, and your touch armor is decently high that only a rare few can reach it. You used the cheat button, and now can kick ass. But using that cheat code, makes it so you never can score on the high score list, or even the crap score list. Your illegible for the score list by using cheats. Just how it is. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 05:36:43
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I've never felt any need to justify hypercompetent Thayan kill magic aimed at my players ... they know better than to go anywhere near that place without a damned good reason.  |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 24 Nov 2010 05:40:57 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 05:45:02
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Dracons -
Mechanical considerations aside, what's wrong with players being proud about their accomplishments? Most PCs in most D&D games have hardly any lasting impact at all on the world, outside of the dictates of scripted modules and meddling mega-NPCs. Blasting a chunk of Thay off the map is indeed a heroic deed no matter how "easy" it may be. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 05:52:31
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I'd be fine with it, if it was earned.
Simply saying you did it, and the DM going sure, without the npcs or anyone mounting a defense? And PCs wave through them like nothing?
Well, I don't see many players bragging how they killed all the goblins in a cave in their first quest of a campaign, which is how the above would go about in Thay. |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 15:19:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Gavinfoxx
Anyway, we were almost at the point where we could get an arbitrary large amount of money anyway -- with core only, that's level 12 or so. When you get 6th level spells (plane shift, planar ally, planar binding, etc.). Of course, we'll soon have an arbitrarily large amount of money anyway -- after we do the mining adventure in the Elemental Plane of Earth (that should net at least several hundred thousand...), and Call a Noble Djinn and get a lock of hair from it and make a Simulacrum of the thing. So it's soon going to be the case that *money* is not the limiting factor in getting stuff, in this game. Availability, time, life force--that sort of thing is going to be the limiting factor.
Also, I AM NOT THE DM.
Wait... Are you saying that your DM allows those (poor) interpretations of the 3.5 rules which allow NI wealth loops? |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 15:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
Wait... Are you saying that your DM allows those (poor) interpretations of the 3.5 rules which allow NI wealth loops?
How else do you think that leader gave them the 109K gp to do a few minutes? Every leader that has an wizard of minimal 12th level has infinite money. Still don't know how the economy works, but uh OOOH LOOK ! We God! We smash!
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I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 16:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
I'd be fine with it, if it was earned.
Really confused by this.
Someone besides you is playing their game the way they want to play it, they haven't asked for praise, they're posting about having fun maxing things out (which is fun, if everyone at the gaming table agrees that's what they want to do)...and all of a sudden you are the judge of whether what this person is doing is right and proper?
It's fine if you don't like that style of play. You can even say, "Oh, I don't like that style of play. It doesn't feel like I've earned anything when the DM lets us do X."
But indicating displeasure at someone else's game, to the point you're this close to Trolling their thread, because it's not your style? 
In case you've forgotten, the point of the game is to have fun. It's not cool for you to criticize your fellow scribes for having that fun, Dracons.
Not cool at all. |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 16:58:16
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Miscellany, how do the comments above contribute to the thread? The OP had apparently enjoyed the tete a tete with Dracons; even going so far as to list the magic items his group has developed, their costs, etc. I cannot know for certain why the OP has continued to try and validate his groups blatant cheating, but he has, and seems to enjoy it.
Calling out Dracons in this manner is Trolling. Please do not Troll threads, Miscell.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
I'd be fine with it, if it was earned.
Really confused by this.
Someone besides you is playing their game the way they want to play it, they haven't asked for praise, they're posting about having fun maxing things out (which is fun, if everyone at the gaming table agrees that's what they want to do)...and all of a sudden you are the judge of whether what this person is doing is right and proper?
It's fine if you don't like that style of play. You can even say, "Oh, I don't like that style of play. It doesn't feel like I've earned anything when the DM lets us do X."
But indicating displeasure at someone else's game, to the point you're this close to Trolling their thread, because it's not your style?
In case you've forgotten, the point of the game is to have fun. It's not cool for you to criticize your fellow scribes for having that fun, Dracons.
Not cool at all.
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 17:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
... I cannot know for certain why the OP has continued to try and validate his groups blatant cheating
"Blatant cheating?"
People should be able to play how they want to play. Tweaking the rules, breaking the rules and asking questions like "if our DM lets us do X with the rules, how does that effect Y in the game?" are all legitimate forms of game play or extensions of it and, in case you didn't know, are quite fun.
Having that fun is not something I—or anyone else who plays this game—has to justify to anyone. Least of all strangers on the internet who, for whatever reason, think they know better.
I apologize if my post offended you, Acolyte, but I stand by my words. Gavinfoxx has a right to post his play experiences and ask questions about them. Dracons doesn’t have a right to be a jerk in response. |
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 24 Nov 2010 17:29:17 |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 17:46:44
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Rule Zero is not in 3.5. In 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons, the rules are clear. The OP is in clear violation of more than one.
Dracons has every right to be critical of this posters cheating. When one uses the Rules, and phrases like 'RAW' to validate their experiences, they are making an appeal to the Rules. This OP's group is not playing in accordance with the rules.
Dracons is not being a jerk; he is being critical.
It is a violation of Candlekeep CoC to call a fellow scribe names: Hence, you are in violation of CoC. Please stop Trolling, it makes Candlekeep no fun.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
... I cannot know for certain why the OP has continued to try and validate his groups blatant cheating
"Blatant cheating?"
People should be able to play how they want to play. Tweaking the rules, breaking the rules and asking questions like "if our DM lets us do X with the rules, how does that effect Y in the game?" are all legitimate forms of game play or extensions of it and, in case you didn't know, are quite fun.
Having that fun is not something I—or anyone else who plays this game—has to justify to anyone. Least of all strangers on the internet who, for whatever reason, think they know better.
I apologize if my post offended you, Acolyte, but I stand by my words. Gavinfoxx has a right to post his play experiences and ask questions about them. Dracons doesn’t have a right to be a jerk in response.
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 18:00:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
Rule Zero is not in 3.5. In 3.5 Dungeons and Dragons, the rules are clear.
Lolz this pretty much sums up the problem right here. 
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 18:12:21
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I will report Mr. Miscellany's Trolling to The Moderators.
Calling Dracon names is unacceptable, imo. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 18:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Gavinfoxx
Uh, Sure, I'll go get it... there are a few items that does this, but I'll go get them...
I guess I'll be editing this post as I add to it, or something...
Item "Buffy"
This includes the 1.25x cost for multiple items. These are NOT the prices the artificer paid to make these, I think she has two stacking 75% feats (that would be Extraordinary Artisan and Magic Artisan). I
Resist Energy, Castings per day: 4, caster level 1, spell level 1, base cost 1800, we paid 506, xp cost: 34
Avoid Planar Effects, 1/day, caster level 2, spell level 2, base cost 1800, we paid 506, xp cost: 34
Tremorsense, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 2, base cost 1800, we paid 506, xp cost: 34
Polymorph 1/day, caster level 8, spell level 4, base cost 14,400, we paid 4050, xp cost: 270
Xorn Movement, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 5, base cost 4500, we paid 1266, xp cost: 85
guided shot, 1/day, caster level 1, spell level 1, base cost 450, we paid 127, xp cost: 9
Wind tunnel, 1/day, caster level 1, spell level 5, base cost 2250, we paid 633, xp cost: 43
Sheltered Vitality, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 4, base cost 3600, we paid 1013, xp cost: 68
Heroics 5/day, caster level 1, spell level 2, base cost 4500, we paid 1266, xp cost: 85
Stoneskin, 2/day, caster level 8, spell level 2, base cost 14400, we paid 4050, xp cost: 270
Divine Agility, 1/day, caster level 1, spell level 5, base cost 2250, we paid 633, xp cost: 43
Wraithstike, 1/day, caster level 1, spell level 3, base cost 1350, we paid 380, xp cost: 26
Magic Vestment, 1/day, caster level 8, spell level 3, base cost 10800, we paid 3038, xp cost: 203
Fuse Arms, 1/day, caster level 1, spell level 2, base cost 900, we paid 253, xp cost: 17
Greater Vigor, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 5, base cost 4500, we paid 1266, xp cost: 85
Heart of Air, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 2, base cost 1800, we paid 506, xp cost: 34
heart of Earth, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 4, base cost 3600, we paid 1013, xp cost: 68
heart of Fire, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level5, base cost 4500, we paid 1266, xp cost: 85
Heart of Water, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 3, base cost 2700, we paid 759, xp cost: 51
Greater Invisibility, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 4, base cost 3600, we paid 1013, xp cost: 68
See Invisibility, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 1, base cost 900 (runescarred berserker if you want to know), we paid 253, xp cost: 17
Delay Death, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 4, base cost 3600, we paid 1013, xp cost: 68
Enlarge Person, 1/day, caster level 1, spell level 1, base cost 450, we paid 127, xp cost: 9
Spikes 3/day, caster level 8, spell level 3, base cost 32400, we paid 9113, xp cost: 608
Bite of the Wearbear, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 4, base price 3600, we paid 1013, xp cost: 68
Treasure Scent, 1/day, caster level 1, spell level 2, base price 900, we paid 253, xp cost: 17
Scintillating Scales, 2/day, caster level 1, spell level 2, base price 1800, we paid 506, xp cost: 34
Telepathic Bond, 1/day, caster level 3, spell level 5, base price 6750, we paid 1898, xp cost: 127
There's another item, called "Free as a Bird Censer", which I think has a thematic discount. I'll have to double check the spell level and caster level of it's stuff, I only have a partial list, but it has...
Disobedience 3/day, Caster level 1, spell level 3, 3564 base price, we paid 1002, xp cost: 67
Haste 3/day, Caster level 1, Spell Level
Footsteps of the Divine 3/Day, Caster Level 1, Spell Level
Aerial Alacrity 3/Day, Caster Level 1, Spell Level
Freedom of Movement 3/day, Caster Level 1, Spell Level
Anyway, the main amount of money we made was, my character made a 109k by knowing about an obscure spell, and using it to great effect, for 3 month's work, casting Stone Metamorphosis many times each day to shore up a city wall that was made of a poor quality stone, solving a massive problem for the city that then paid us.
Could be wrong, since I haven't been looking at the rules for like the last 2 years, but isn't the minimum caster level supposed to be the minimum level that someone could cast said spell (i.e. a 4th lvl wizard spell would have to be minimum 7th lvl caster level, etc...). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dracons
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 18:37:42
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Could be wrong, since I haven't been looking at the rules for like the last 2 years, but isn't the minimum caster level supposed to be the minimum level that someone could cast said spell (i.e. a 4th lvl wizard spell would have to be minimum 7th lvl caster level, etc...).
It is true. But Gavinfoxx team uses several of those spells from other classes where the minimal level is what they state (Such as Runescar Barbarian, which is something he's made mention plenty of times).
As for me calling him names? I never did. I even PM'ed him about this whole talk a few days ago. I've stated plenty of times that if he is having fun, then yay for him. I've just also stated, that it isn't something to brag about if it it's as easy as it is. You don't shower praise to the man who took a jet plane to get to top of Mt. Everest do you? |
I love PMs! Please send me a message. Even if its Hi. |
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 19:13:41
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No no, Dracons!
I think it is a violation of Candlekeep's Code of Conduct for Mr Miscellany to call *you* a 'jerk'. You're clearly not, and I believe you've raised many excellent points in this thread! Thanks for posting!! |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 19:28:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
As for me calling him names? I never did.
Not sure if you're talking to me here or not. For the record, that's not something I claimed you did.
quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
I even PM'ed him about this whole talk a few days ago.
Cool. I should have allowed for that possibility before piping up on the thread.
quote:
Originally posted by Dracons
I've just also stated, that it isn't something to brag about if it it's as easy as it is. You don't shower praise to the man who took a jet plane to get to top of Mt. Everest do you?
I don’t recall the OP ever bragging, myself.
As to your last: I see your point, so far as it goes.
The thing about D&D is that playing the game isn’t like climbing Mt. Everest. That is, there’s no one “right way” to get to the top of the mountain.
Yes, there are rules. Yes, you can break them on purpose. Yes, some people (not all people) consider this cheating or wrong. Some people even go so far as to lambaste strangers for it online (really odd people, those).
I’m just not a fan of constant and repetitive criticism of the churlish variety that’s pointed at someone simply because they have the temerity to try different methods of play. That’s why I spoke up in the first place.
Note this shouldn’t be taken as me being critical of someone who’s pointing out errors in how game mechanics are being applied. If you post, “This is how we figured it out.” and someone responds with, “Um…that’s not right. Here’s how the rules work.”…that’s fine, because it’s helpful
As soon as the criticism jumps from rules to play style, it stops being helpful all together.
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Acolyte Thirteen
Seeker
93 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 19:46:19
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Personally, I find Dracons points refreshing, well thought, and well put.
On the other hand, I find Mr. Miscellany's comments contrite, pugnacious, and pompous.
Maybe Miscellany should take a break from hypocrisy and take his own advice!!
Dracons, there is nothing at all churlish about your comments!! Please ignor your trollish detractors!! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 20:34:42
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ENOUGH. Get back on topic, or I'm going to start removing posts from this thread.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 22:03:42
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Okayy... just FYI, some things we are vulnerable to:
1.) A fairly optimized spellthief. You know, the class? I'm thinking the feature "Steal Spell Effect" is very strong versus us.. most of our buffs aren't personal range... Also, combinations of Spellthief, Master Spellthief, and Spellwarp Sniper, which focuses on ray based debuffs that give penalties to stats (we're immune to damage or drain, but not penalties), which would enable them to use Save or Dies on us, like Disintegration, which WILL kill us.
2.) Our layered defenses mostly neglect Slashing Dispel & Reaving Dispel, only the contingencies and blocking line of effect will work on those
3.) Spell Theft. You know, the spell?
4.) Lots of "No hit, No save, you just suck now" spells. Some of our buffs make us immune to these -- but not all: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9207.0
5.) Fear specialists. Oh god, fear specialists. Being immune to fear won't stop these...
6.) A stealth specialist that takes the effort to be immune to more than just sight and sound, by getting Darkstalker and a few of the other things to be immune to detection via spell could really mess with us too.
7.) An Eldritch Theurge's Spellblast, using Antimagic Field as the spellblast, and targeting squares all around us, and then throwing an Instantaneous Conjuration that restricts movement (like Iceberg) from OUTSIDE the field into it, which works, so we can't leave it easily, and then chucking archery stuff or Instantaneous Conjurations to kill us. |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 25 Nov 2010 00:28:51 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 23:38:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Acolyte Thirteen
Miscellany, how do the comments above contribute to the thread? The OP had apparently enjoyed the tete a tete with Dracons; even going so far as to list the magic items his group has developed, their costs, etc. I cannot know for certain why the OP has continued to try and validate his groups blatant cheating, but he has, and seems to enjoy it.
Calling out Dracons in this manner is Trolling. Please do not Troll threads, Miscell.
I don't see it as trolling, Acolyte.
And, in future, I'd prefer if you leave such declarations to the actual Moderators.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2010 : 23:59:16
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Well, steering this mess back towards OP -
The Weave (however you prefer to think of it) is some kind of field/construct formed of magical energy. Apparently endless magical energy. It certainly isn't required to operate within rules of physics similar to those of our universe.
I'm personally inclined towards thinking of the Weave as an organic, "living", perhaps even quasi-sentient thing. If such were the case then, like all living systems, the Weave would need to be constantly exercised to remain strong and healthy, and would need to be constantly challenged to experience meaningful growth. (Thus perhaps Mystra's priority in actively encouraging and rewarding new magics and magical applications.)
Gavin's "buffy" example certainly interacts a great deal with the Weave (though no more than many other potent dweomers and items) ... I would argue that items like "buffy" actually serve in a small way to help strengthen the Weave rather than permanently strain or damage it. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 25 Nov 2010 00:05:43 |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 00:18:35
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Here's another question:
If we WANTED to go along the boundaries of an area where the Weave is weak, could we, over time, strengthen it just by encircling the weak area in 3D space (since we have fly and burrow/earthglide), and slowly squeeze the unstable area to stableness?
And *IS* there a spell whose sole effect is to strengthen the area of Weave in which it resides? |
Edited by - Gavinfoxx on 25 Nov 2010 00:19:14 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 00:33:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The Weave (however you prefer to think of it) is some kind of field/construct formed of magical energy.
Yes, except that it's the natural energy of Toril, rather than a separate, purely magical energy.quote:
I'm personally inclined towards thinking of the Weave as an organic, "living", perhaps even quasi-sentient thing.
The Weave is Mystra, or her body, so yes, it is sentient, or trans-sentient. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 00:35:09
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quote:
And *IS* there a spell whose sole effect is to strengthen the area of Weave in which it resides?
Aye, there is and its in core, though it has lots of other uses. Wish and Miracle can repair dead magic zones. Note that Magic of Fearun states that even a Wish cant create a dead magic zone.
I think you need to cast a 12th level Karsus Avatar spell to damage the weave. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 25 Nov 2010 00:37:01 |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 00:39:16
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| Well, okay, we can get Wishes fairy soon. I was wondering if anyone knew of a lower level way of doing it. I mean you can create an area of Dead Magic specific to the Shadow Weave with a level 3 spell, and presumably the normal Weave is more resilient than that... |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 00:57:02
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Well ... outside of clear dictates within a handful of "special" areas published in canon, this seems largely to fall under the purview of each DM.
My interpretation/rulings would follow this sort of logic:
Areas where the Weave is weak are just Dead Magic zones. Regular rules apply; perhaps "Weak Magic" zones exist where stronger dweomers lose potency or flicker and only weaker dweomers are stable. Leaving such zones restores the dweomers to "normal" operation.
Areas where the Weave is unstable are just Wild Magic zones. Again, regular rules apply. Magics don't lose any potency at all, though their effects become more wildly unpredictable at higher magical "density". An item like "buffy" might spontaneously trigger all sorts of nasty surprises in such an area, due to the many layers of constantly active enchantments.
Specialty priests of Mystra (whatever your rules edition calls them) are dedicated to stabilizing the Weave in such areas. Their spells function more normally in these zones and they have granted powers which allow them to work at permanently "fixing" the Weave, one small bubble at a time. Of course there are some particular areas they still avoid (Mystra's Pits in the Helmlands are just too powerfully unstable to correct, whereas a big chunk of Tantras is a huge dead magic zone and the inhabitants generally prefer to keep it that way.)
Short answer - dragging a net of powerful magic items around isn't going to have much impact on damaging or repairing the environment, although the environment could and would certainly have great effect on the magics of those items (at least temporarily). If you seriously want to damage or repair the Weave then it generally requires a very real and dedicated effort on your part, not mere possession of trinkets.
Again, this is just my perception of things. Your DM would not be incorrect in deciding otherwise. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Gavinfoxx
Learned Scribe
USA
132 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2010 : 01:06:34
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Dead Magic:
Well, 'only weaker dwoemers are stable' ... this means that our huuuge variety of level 1 / caster level 1 and level 2 / caster level 1 buffs would likelt work, right? Most of the ones on that list are cast at very very low caster level, and the infusion that enables them is a LEVEL ONE infusion.. so most of the low level / low caster level stuff should work, right? |
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Overdoing long-lasting buff spells-hurt the Weave?
Topic Locked
