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Gellion
Learned Scribe
140 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Oct 2003 : 23:48:15
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How powerful exactly are the Phaerimm, as well as the Sharn.. I think the average Phaerimm is CR 16. But magically how adpet are both of them. Do they have access to epic level magic, or do they just use massively metamagicked 1-9th level spells? Where did the Sharn come from? I have also heard about Elder Sharn. I heard someone put the CR of an average one at 66.
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"Paladine, you see the evil that surrounds me! You have been witness to the calamities that have been the scourge of Krynn... You must see now that this doctrine of balance will not work! I can sweep evil from this land. Destroy the ogre races. Bring the wayward humans into line! Find new homelands far away for the dwarves and the kender and the gnomes, those races not of your creation... I demand that you give me, too, the power to drive away the shadows of evil that darken the land!"- THE REIGN OF ISTAR, Tales IV |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2003 : 17:03:37
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| i read somthing about them on the main paige mabey there.... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 06:19:52
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There are two schools of thought on where the Sharn actually come from -
Some scholars and sages believe that the Sharn are nothing more than transformed ancient Netherese Arcanists from the Shadowed Age of the Netheril Empire. It is said that these spellcasters underwent this dramatic physical and mental change in an attempt to combat the increased threat from the Phaerimm.
The other standing theory is that the Sharn are believed to born from the primordial essence of chaos itself. This, in itself may suggest some form of Outer Planar origin, perhaps the plane of Limbo, or even to a limited extent, the Far Realm...although that is quite a stretch  . The fact that the Sharn have considerable mastery of alternate environments from across both the Material and Outer Planes also lends some validity to this theory.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 18 Dec 2003 06:22:06 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 20:45:51
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i would think the first, why would they help the Netherese Arcanists if they where not one of there one?
And the Phaerium are annoying things i hate them even more then the harpers
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Edited by - Cyric on 19 Dec 2003 19:16:59 |
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Dracandos the Spellsage
Senior Scribe
466 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2003 : 22:44:49
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| aye id think the 1st as well |
Death strips away the masks men don to hide their true nature - The Slayer's Guide to Undead
The Lord of Murder shall perish, but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown from their passage - So Sayeth the Wise Alaundo
Whenever magic one doth weave, 'tis never ever wise to deceive - Elminster
Strength and power come from knowing and controlling what others do not, but never reveal all that you know - Vecna
I have been known to cast a blue mage spell now and again - Dracandos the Spellsage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 08:11:39
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That is better Cyric...thanks  .
Cyric said -
quote:
why would they help the Netherese Arcanists if they where not one of there one?
Maybe, instead of being transformed Arcanists, the Archmages of Netheril made a pact with an Outer Planar race (the Sharn - this conforms with theory 2) and promised them something (whatever it is, it would have to be something of great importance to the Netherese) in exhange for their help in fighting the Phaerimm. It could be possible - the 'epic' level of the spellcasters involved could allow them to dictate certain terms...at least on a planar level. We also know that the Arcanists manipulated the, and experimented with, both the Inner and Outer Planes...from time to time.
Either theory has the ability to be correct, we simply need more information about this moment of Netheril's history.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 20 Dec 2003 08:14:02 |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2003 : 11:42:19
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Third option:
The Sharn, like the Phaerimm, could be a 'created' race. The Imaskari were responsible for creating the Phaerimm, maybe the Netheril arcanists created the Sharn in an effort to combat them... It could actually overlap with theory one. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2003 : 02:25:00
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Indeed...you could very well be right about that Mumadar.
It could be that sometime during the period when the Netherese Arcanists had began experimenting with magic (after the 'discovery' of the Nether Scrolls), they came across an ancient set of tomes, or historical period documentation from the early days of the Imaskari that dealt with the creation of magical creatures such as the Phaerimm. These Arcanists could well have adapted specific portions of these notes for their own creation...the Sharn.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2003 : 15:03:38
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On the other hand, there is conflicting Realms lore that claims Sharn and Phaerimm were doing battles across the west before humans had even crawled out of their caves... The climatic battle was responsible for leveling most of the Sword Coast (actually creating it) Where before there was a great western mountain range, only the Sword Coast remained as it is today...
With all these various sources and chroniclers in the employ of the Wizards who dwell on the coast, it is sometimes difficult to find the real thruth... |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2003 : 22:28:21
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Some more info on the Sharn:
The race of creatures called the sharn are beings that seek mastery of
magic. Their first appearance on Faerűn coincides with Netheril’s
Shadowed Age, and many believe that Netherese arcanists actually transformed
themselves into the sharn in an attempt to combat the threat of
phaerimm. The sharn have always actively opposed the phaerimm,
though they have not taken up allies in their cause.
These curious creatures appear as glossy black teardrops of somewhat
amorphous flesh, studded with many tiny eyes and surrounded by a nimbus
of purple light. Opponents rarely get to see these vulnerable central
bodies, as surviving an encounter with a sharn is a rare feat indeed.
Attempts to mentally contact a sharn (through psionics or other
means) result in success only if the sharn wishes it. Sharn share a peculiar
form of short-range group telepathy among themselves. |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2003 : 00:16:49
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Ok due to extreme lack of knowledge (and a curiosity of recognition of the name Phaerimm) I did some searching in my own collection... While not finding anything of value I do have a little say on the topic (Cause I'm THE 'Cardinal', I don't need no information before I speak  )
Anyways I think the Phaerimm aren't actually that bad (I would like some more information if some could humor me). I honestly can't see anything worse than a Harper... Unless the Harpers swore to Serve a King or Emperor who was less of a meddler and more of a... Zhent, or Banite... or even a..A..Cyricist....
Why would Cyric (our cyric) have any reason to hate (or fear perhaps?) these Phaerimm.. What are they exactly? |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2003 : 14:23:36
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Mumadar Ibn Huzal said -
quote:
With all these various sources and chroniclers in the employ of the Wizards who dwell on the coast, it is sometimes difficult to find the real thruth...
Yes, and with the increased frequency of it occuring in more and more products, one begins to think that WotC like it that way...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 18:53:58
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| Doesn't the Underdark accessory suggest that the phaerimm are the creation of the Imaskari? |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2004 : 23:15:22
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Yepp, they do.
This what it has to say about it.
Wizard-kings of heady power, the Imaskari were destroyed by the slaves they had abducted from other worlds (who eventually became the folks of Mulhorand and Unther) and the machinations of unusual creatures of their own creation (the phaerimm)
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Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 01:37:15
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| I always loved the Imaskari plot, that is them abducting their slaves from other worlds, its straight out of Stargate. Anyways, the phaerimm are very powerful. While the base phaerimm in the Monster Manual is not terribly powerful, they usually have like seventeen levels of sorcerer. The same applies to the sharn, so they usually are a lot more potent than they appear as well. In general, the Netherse did not really know why the sharn assisted the Netherse, since it was not out of benevolence. Appareantly, teh sharn were already at war with the phaerimm for some reason and just saw aiding the Netherse as a means to an end. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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CurseLord
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 07:08:06
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I have read mention of Sharn in Undermountain. If true, does anyone know what they are doing in Undermountain.
Monsters of Faerun mentions that the Sharn are Archetypal Shape which means that no other creatures can polymorph or shapechange themselves(or anyone else) into a sharn's shape, or anything approximatting it. So, that would go against the theory that the Sharn are transmformed Netherese. Also, didn't the Sharn ignore all Netherese attempts to contact them? I would imagine if you transformed yourself into a being capable of fighting against the Phaerimm, you would talk to your own people. |
Edited by - CurseLord on 31 Jan 2004 20:10:10 |
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Cyric
Senior Scribe
Norway
388 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 10:48:45
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| yes and by helping that stupid elf in The sorcer they did stop there own people so they cant be nethers they must be somthing els. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 20:29:30
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| Yes, I suppose that represents some conflicting interests. And I don't think the Sharn in The Sorcerer was Netherese in origin. True, back then, names were weird, but the Sharn's name was pronounced Zer-vla-blay-lee-uh, IIRC........ The name doesn't sound very Netherese. I lean more towards theory two. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2004 : 21:28:07
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| I agree that if the Sharn were Netherse in origin they would have been concerned for the Netherse in the their war with the Phaerimm. In reality the Sharn more or less used the Netherse to help them kill the Phaerimm, but never really help the Netherse. Exactly why the Sharn hate the Phaerimm I cannot remember (if I ever knew), but they seem to be more than willing to use anyone to reach their ends, whatever they are. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1715 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 02:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by CurseLord
I have read mention of Sharn in Undermountain. If true, does anyone know what they are doing in Undermountain.
"Marvelously awful things. Truly, I've learned more about torment from the sharn than from all other races save humanity and orckind." says Halaster. 
Of course, he could be lying.
quote:
Monsters of Faerun mentions that the Sharn are Archetypal Shape which means that no other creatures can polymorph or shapechange themselves(or anyone else) into a sharn's shape, or anything approximatting it. So, that would go against the theory that the Sharn are transmformed Netherese.
An interesting theory, yes, just like that theory about the sharn being extraplanar. The former's truer than the latter, but neither one's the whole truth. While I'm hardly the expert any more, I'd hazard a guess that their origins are both older and confined to Faerun rather than the planes.
quote:
Also, didn't the Sharn ignore all Netherese attempts to contact them? I would imagine if you transformed yourself into a being capable of fighting against the Phaerimm, you would talk to your own people.
Either that or the transformation is more than merely a physical one...and a sharn no longer cares about the concerns of petty humanity.... 
Steven
Who's forgotten a lot of ideas he had about the sharn when they first showed up in Ruins of Undermountain |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Teflon
Seeker
60 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2004 : 03:26:32
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Hey Steven am I right at saying that the sharn are acutally survivors from Miyeritar, transformed by the Dark Disaster? I did a little reasearch through the cormanthor book netheril book and looked over some websites. They wanted to wipe them out because the phariemm were using life-drain magic which once transformed the sharn into there former beings. Thus they didnt want that happening ever again. Then after they did the sharn wall thing they went back into hiding in the Sharnlands(which is documented in the underdark book). Also I think they were created in -10,500 since thats when the dark disaster happened. That would mean there really old.
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In any battle, the mightiest weapon is one that strikes unseen.
A Warrior or Wizard may be invincible in open battle, with their foes before them, but even they must sleep sometime, and cannot parry the knife that comes from behind.
-The life of a assassin. |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 02:03:27
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| From the virtually unexplained animosity between the two species, could it be that the phaerimm and the sharn are somehow related? Perhaps they diverge from the same source, whether Netheril, another plane, or some unimagined source. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 18:10:14
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Learned Scribe Gellion,
The Phaerimm and Sharn had the ability to class up in their respective wizard/sorcerer classes, and that had no upperbound. So, effectively, while they were identified in the Monsters of Faerun as 5th and 8th CR, respectively, that doesn't take into account whatever their level in class was at the time of encountering them. Effectively, they can be anything you want them to be. However at their base levels, you can see they are lower mid-level, or mid level at their base consistency.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Gellion
How powerful exactly are the Phaerimm, as well as the Sharn.. I think the average Phaerimm is CR 16. But magically how adpet are both of them. Do they have access to epic level magic, or do they just use massively metamagicked 1-9th level spells? Where did the Sharn come from? I have also heard about Elder Sharn. I heard someone put the CR of an average one at 66.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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The Phaerimm and Sharn
