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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 20:16:01
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The universe IS 'out to get you' - its called 'Evolution'. Unfortunately, modern laws protect many of the people that need to be removed from the gene pool (and I'm talking about idiots, not any racial group, before someone gets the wrong idea). I'm a big fan of Darwin, and once again, nothing (not even Evolution and Genesis) is necessarily mutually exclusive. If humans are the 'Race of destiny', then consider Darwin their coach; you don't think God believes in 'thinning the herd'? Explain that to the dinosaurs - I just hope we aren't the most recent 'failure'.
Every Creator (inventor/artist/etc) dreams of perfecting his/her creation - that's what Evolution is designed to do. If you want to make it to the Superbowl, you gotta win in the playoffs. 
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
He's made up of midichlorians? And does that mean the Pope has a lightsaber?
At the risk of offending somebody (when am I NOT offending SOMEONE?!), I'm sure you've seen THIS before Wooly.
There's your War of Light & Darkness right there (if Shar and Selune were dudes).
Also, everyone knows the Freemasons were infiltrated by the Knights Templar, who themselves were controlled by the Illuminati.
'Illuminati'... to 'illuminate'.. to make known... to remove the shadow of ignorance and replace it with the light of understanding.
Radiance.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Dec 2010 22:04:33 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 21:08:52
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Do those self-righteous condescending elves have texts resembling the Protocols? Be there hidden cabals of power like the Baldurian Illuminati or Gnomes of Zerlich?
I'm uncertain whether a true goddess Eris exists within the Realms. Fnord. A resemblance to Tymora perhaps, in some ways; or Sune, Selūne, Mystra, and Larue in others. Or just scampy old Volo Volo. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2010 : 22:30:21
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| Brobdingnagian? Holy Vocabulary Batman, gotta look that up |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 00:19:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, everyone knows the Freemasons were infiltrated by the Knights Templar, who themselves were controlled by the Illuminati.
Wow! I didn't know Tony Stark's influence reached that far into the past. Must've made some arrangement with Kang, back when his mind was under the Conqueror's control. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 00:57:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The universe IS 'out to get you' - its called 'Evolution'. Unfortunately, modern laws protect many of the people that need to be removed from the gene pool (and I'm talking about idiots, not any racial group, before someone gets the wrong idea). I'm a big fan of Darwin, and once again, nothing (not even Evolution and Genesis) is necessarily mutually exclusive. If humans are the 'Race of destiny', then consider Darwin their coach; you don't think God believes in 'thinning the herd'? Explain that to the dinosaurs - I just hope we aren't the most recent 'failure'.
I meant just the game world, real world, don't know, can't say that I agree, social darwinism is the way of the drow, lol.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Every Creator (inventor/artist/etc) dreams of perfecting his/her creation - that's what Evolution is designed to do. If you want to make it to the Superbowl, you gotta win in the playoffs.
by that logic the genesis and evolution are exclusive, if the creator of evolution dreams of perfecting, how's the creator itself perfect, at best the creator is a demiurge
or if you go by the free will excuse, the creator would be a hypocrite for ''thinning the herd'', again not perfect
quote:
Originally posted by Markus
Also, everyone knows the Freemasons were infiltrated by the Knights Templar, who themselves were controlled by the Illuminati.
'Illuminati'... to 'illuminate'.. to make known... to remove the shadow of ignorance and replace it with the light of understanding.
Radiance.
What knowledge, seems shady to me.
You played the Assassin's Creed games? After I did, I had to use some of that in D&D. I planned to do Paizo's Legacy of Fire (altered for Sarenrae) combined with the Crusades style campaign. Lacking time we skipped right into Chondath, Cheliax and the Lands of Intrigue, after the return from Holy Land. The Twisted Rune were like the masons, the Rune part implying the geomancy, Twisted is how they twist symbols, e.g. swastika in RL. And the Rundeen like the Venetians. On the other side the knights of Roarik (my nongood version of Nobanion), all radiant and popular, but their inner ranks are really Knights of the Shield (connects to Gargauth, then to the actual Lightbearer). To make things complicated the illumined knights are behind the Kalistcracy of Druma (heretical movement of Waukeen in Amn, taken from Golarion) and run the banks in the Aurum (taken from Eberron, with gold dwarves, sun elves and an aurumach rilmani as co-conspirators).
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Do those self-righteous condescending elves have texts resembling the Protocols?
If Zion secretly means Sun, and the Sun is a portal to Radiance ... must be that the sun elves forged the docs to blame the gnomes, or the other way around 
quote:
I'm uncertain whether a true goddess Eris exists within the Realms. Fnord. A resemblance to Tymora perhaps, in some ways; or Sune, Selūne, Mystra, and Larue in others. Or just scampy old Volo Volo.
All of them, don't you know about the Watching gods of FR
Tough in my Realms I changed Cyric to take that role, he's more like that Valigan Thirdborn guy |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 01:31:41
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| I always knew those cursed elves had a world-domination superconspiracy going on. Treacherous, these fey sorts are. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 02:08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I always knew those cursed elves had a world-domination superconspiracy going on. Treacherous, these fey sorts are.
Old Elven Super-Villain:- "And I would've conquered Faerūn too, if it weren't for those meddling humans." 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 04:57:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I always knew those cursed elves had a world-domination superconspiracy going on. Treacherous, these fey sorts are.
Old Elven Super-Villain:- "And I would've conquered Faerūn too, if it weren't for those meddling humans."
Scooby Doo could be an awakened dog of some sort... But what form would the Mystery Machine take?
Let's see... Freddy is a paladin, Daphne would be a priestess of Sune, I think, Velma would be an Oghma-worshipping mage, and I guess Shaggy would be some sort of rogue.
Zoinks!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 06:17:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, everyone knows the Freemasons were infiltrated by the Knights Templar, who themselves were controlled by the Illuminati.
Wow! I didn't know Tony Stark's influence reached that far into the past. Must've made some arrangement with Kang, back when his mind was under the Conqueror's control.
Well, DUH! Didn't you know that Dr. Strange was really Elminster? Betcha he knows where all of the time portals from Mystryl's time are...
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The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 08:08:21
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| What in Faerun has happened to this thread?!? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 08:42:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Also, everyone knows the Freemasons were infiltrated by the Knights Templar, who themselves were controlled by the Illuminati.
Wow! I didn't know Tony Stark's influence reached that far into the past. Must've made some arrangement with Kang, back when his mind was under the Conqueror's control.
Well, DUH! Didn't you know that Dr. Strange was really Elminster? Betcha he knows where all of the time portals from Mystryl's time are...
By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth! You're right. I suppose that would make Black Bolt a Chosen of Milil, Mister Fantastic is the Loremaster Most High of Oghma, Namor is a prominent human/sea-elf hybrid prince of the Atlantean kingdom beneath the waves of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and Professor X is leader of a strange band of heroes with freakish powers, protecting Waterdeep from the Brotherhood of Freaks.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 10:43:20
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| This thread hath fallen under the sway of the fey, Fellfire. The magic of creative intoxication. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 15:14:57
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Awakened dog, can't stop laughing.
MT's posts about radiance and about the shadevari being obyriths, and Sage's about energy being information got me wonder some new 4e lore. The sharns are about the preservation of lore and are remnants of an another universe, probably the same from which the obyriths arrived. So the Pentad could a fey power (if it's composed of Corellon, Selune-Sehanine, Celtic Oghma, Mystra-Lurue and Dumathoin). Kinda fits all, even with the Cerulean Sign stuff, probably the first sun was of blue fire like a class O star. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 16:05:50
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Well, there actually is an elven dog (called a cooshee); basically a smarter, better, cooler, slightly feyish canine with sufficient longevity for elves to become attached to them. Described in Dragon #67, 1E MM2, and PHBR8. No doubt many elves invest magical intelligence and abilities into their cooshee companions, and these would serve as fine familiars.
And there's many tales of elves associating with full-grown dragons they've raised from hatchlings. These are awfully cute when they're small - but it doesn't take long (in elven terms) for a dragon to grow a lot bigger and become a real pain to feed, plus you've gotta let them have a hoard, and a decent lair, and teach them magic and proper etiquette for the royal table, and have them constantly groomed, and give them lots of attention, make sure they have all their shots (the veterinarian bills are astronomical), give them lots of toys and adventurers to play with, and generally clean up their mess. A rather serious lifetime commitment for an elf, and some dragon breeds are known to sometimes be slightly aggressive and snappy so it's always best to supervise them around children and strangers.
I've never heard of any sort of elven felines or avians (which seem feylike to me), nor arachnids (for drow), nor goldfish (for aquatics) as companion creatures, but I'm sure they must exist. Even a unicorn is conceivable. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Dec 2010 17:05:51 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 17:10:51
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| There is an elven cat in FR monstrous compendium, 1400 xp, why should everything elven has to be more powerful. I like the goblin snake from Pathfinder. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 17:16:44
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| The Cooshee and the Elven Cat (Cath Shee, Cath Quessir) are all detailed in the Bestiary of the Realms Volume 1 by Eric Boyd and Tom Costa |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 17:27:24
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Hey, if I were an elf (thankfully I'm not), I wouldn't pick some scruffy cat from craigslist; I'd select a "more powerful" feline imported from the Feywild. Humans don't, for the most part, get very attached to pets that aren't expected to live more than a year or two. You can't keep watering the goldfish bowl down with potions of longevity; it's just not worth it, get a better pet instead.
I've always loved the flying snake, winged snake, messenger snake - whatever it's called. I can't remember where it's listed. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Dec 2010 17:28:52 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 20:15:01
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I like your musings about an 'earlier Universe' Quale - hadn't thought to bring the Sharn in. Both Sharn and Phaerimm fit the bill for creatures from the Far Realms, but they could just as easily be remnants from a Markovian Universe (borrowed term from Well of Souls novels - great read).
In Chalker's novels, a single race evolved at the beginning of time, in a very dreary, empty universe. Eventually they learned how to tap-into Primal Energy, from which ALL matter and energy stem from, and create an entirely new universe, replete with galaxies and races and everything else (maintained by a Jupiter-sized computer called the 'Well World'). Within this universe, evidence of the ancient Markovians exist - those worlds which have substance outside of the 'Universe program' that is running on top of the real universe. This is sort of how I am picturing the D&D multiverse working - almost everything is a 'program' (illusion, mass-hysteria, whatever), which is nothing more then a set of rules running on an operating system (in this case the 'OS' is the Primal Universe... Primaverse?) Reality becomes this 'program', and everything capable of thought (which generates those 'Overminds' I talked about) it's programmers. Magic-users are really just super-hackers.
That makes things that came before - Shadevari, Obyriths, maybe aboriginal Hellions and Phaerimm & Sharn - the D&D equivalent of the Markovians of Chalker's stories. SomeTHING created the universe, and someTHING is trying to revert it back to the Primaverse (which is where I get my dichotomy of Cthon vs GOD/The ONE).
Remember, 'Evil' isn't really God's enemy - Lucifer/whatever does NOT want to destroy reality, he wants to RULE it. He only makes himself 'The Enemy' because achieving his goals would throw the universe 'out-of-balance', which furthers the clandestine plans of Cthon and anyone else wanting the universe to revert to its Primal State.
And BTW, God is imperfect, which is what the 'great destiny' is all about. God knows that his creation is imperfect and will eventually collapse in on itself (probably due to the endless exertions of 'outside forces'), and because he has foreseen this time, he needed to create a race that may some day be able to stop it (or perhaps 'reboot' the universe themselves). The Illithids, obviously, were sent-back from the 'end of the Universe' to stop whatever is supposed to stop it. It all comes full-circle.
To bring this back on-topic, the Fey (Shee) realized that they would not 'be the ones', but they also know who will be, and try to pave the way for the race that is destined to 'save the world'. Maintaining 'The balance' gives that race (humans) time to mature, and grow into their destiny, before the time of the Collapse (Ragnarök?) occurs. It is their self-imposed mission to destroy pockets of instability (Far Realms/Chaos/Aberrations/Psuedo-natural/etc) wherever they form.
Odd Bits
Dr. Strange (and probably Dr. Fate) are both the 'Sorceror Supreme' manifestations of the Eternal Champion (Elric cosmology), as are Khelben the Elder (Blackstaff) and Khelben Arunsun (Mordenkainen) - each is the same person in an alternate reality. Just as Drizzt is the Elric and Conan of Realmspace. Elminster, on the other hand, is the 'Ancient Sage' type of Eternal Champion, and therefor is the equivalent of Gandalf, Dumbledore, Merlin, and Belgarath. The 'Sorceror Supreme' is a younger, more dynamic individual (and hot-headed, and has a cute goatee).
The Tressym seems to be the most logical choice for a Feline Familiar with fey connections (probably some thing the Avariel created with help from the Aeriee)
As for Scooby, he is in good company with Astro (some believe that is Scooby after discovering a Chronomancy portal, but thats just a myth), Deputy Dog, Doggie Daddy, Dynomutt (clearly a golem - perhaps a canine war/Bloodforged), Huckleberry Hound, etc... all of whom travelled to the Realms years ago (with Krypto and the Legion of Super-pets), where they became stranded on the isle of Wooftopia (in the Farasahad chain, east of Zakhara), where they devolved into a Lord-of-the-Flies society and became Hanna Barbarians.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Do those self-righteous condescending elves have texts resembling the Protocols? Be there hidden cabals of power like the Baldurian Illuminati or Gnomes of Zerlich?
Sure, and they are gaurded by some REALLY old Elves called the 'Oily Geezers' (actually, its Olin Gisir, LEoF pg.21).
They claim no connections to the Eldreth Veluuthra, but that's like the Freemasons claiming no connections to the Illuminati.
Hmmmmm... Illuminati... Illithid... Illythir...
maybe they are all part of the Illearth War! 
{Okay... okay... I know 'Ilythiir' only has one 'L' in it... but those 'i's are lookin' mighty suspicious!) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Dec 2010 20:21:22 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 21:20:49
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| Crazy thread. Maybe it's not a coincidence that they are callled Sharn, they preserve information i.e. light/energy, like a black body absorbing all, wonder what that ''n'' means. I did follow Mystara lore where the previous multiverse merged into nothingness, opposite to the current process of expansion/entropy. Probably that's why the sharns have that collective form, but the 4e article says they imitate the Juna race from Spelljammer, why would they do that? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 21:36:41
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| The Shar/Sharn association is exactly as valid as a Mystra/Mystara association. Unfortunately coincident nomens, I'd think, nothing more. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 21:58:50
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| The difference is that Shar and the sharns were both invented by Ed (I'm not sure if the sharns were inspired by the flying polyps creatures from Lovecraft's Shadow out of Time), and Mystra-Mystara was not. And now in 4e lore there's a story with Tharizdun who has similar goals like Shar. Also interesting that the Radiance in Glantri gives immortality, fits with the Weave=Life theme. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 22:30:56
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| MT, so you are saying that the fey creator race when they destroyed this previous artificial universe escaped back to their original ''Markovian'' reality. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2010 : 23:05:02
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It all comes together... perhaps the designers weren't so crazy after all.
All are just reflections of the 'True World'... I think the Mazticans knew that. Nearly every other official setting is reminiscent of the realms at some point in its long history.
If Abeir-Toril was that 'True World', perhaps its shattering is what caused the myriad 'reflections' of it through out the Prime Material. Almost as-if each were a 'slice of time' that got-away and evolved into its own continuity (they did something similar with Superboy in DC comics). I note the portals/Gates (Road of Stars), Asmodeus' Ascension, Mystra's Weave (see how it changed the cosmology everywhere?), the descent of the Drow, the Pools/Moonwells (energy conduits), Fey, and even the D&D Genesis (the War of Light & Darkness), ALL point to FR being extremely important in the grand scheme of things. What happens in Vegas may stay in Vegas, but what happens on Toril sure as hell gets all over everything.
And I've had yet-another piece of the puzzle drop into place for me. Ymir did NOT die at the beginning of the universe, he died during the first Godwar, when his body was shattered, creating the divergent prime Worlds. Before that, there was but one Prime material world. His living form would have been the first prime Material world - one so vast it would encompass a thousand other worlds.
And what crawled forth from the dead body of Ymir? The Dwarves. 
Who of course were forced to serve Ymir's children - Annam and his brood.
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
The Shar/Sharn association is exactly as valid as a Mystra/Mystara association. Unfortunately coincident nomens, I'd think, nothing more.
Ahhhhhh... but you know how much we love to jump all over those things. 
I like how I associated 'Shar' with 'unlife', and 'Shaar' with 'life' in the other thread (or was it this one?) Kinda like Yin & Yang, or Maat & Maug (which the Giants use) - a very primitive form of 'good' and 'evil', a balance of which is required for consciousness. This equates to SoT's 'Additive' and 'Subtractive' magics, or WoT's saidin and saidar - I figure Shar and Shaar are words in some ancient, long-forgotten tongue, which represent the positive (Radiant) and Negative (Umbral) aspects of the world.
BTW, 'Shadow' is just that - the Shadow of pure Umbral energy, just as 'Fey magic' (Glamours) is the reflection of true Radiant Energy. neither is pure - the pure forms of either would destroy things in the mortal world. At least this is how I see things working within my own cosmology - I may have to rethink 'Eldritch' and 'Arcane' in my world-view.
EDIT:
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
MT, so you are saying that the fey creator race when they destroyed this previous artificial universe escaped back to their original ''Markovian'' reality.
Nope - I think all five 'Creator races' were created prior to the War of Light & Darkness, which we now know happened quite awhile after the creation of the universe.
The Universe was created - and looked VERY different then it does now - by 'Elder Gods' (I will have to give that a group a better name someday). At that time, there was just the Outlands (which may actually have been the original 'laboratory' for creation), and later the Great wheel and the other planes were created. As the universe was being built, there was but one world within the Prime material, and the 'gods' (including {prim}Ordials, deities, and exarchs) fashioned mortal beings and other things to their liking (and for some reason, the old movie Time Bandits is coming to mind).
The Five creator races were made to represent each of the Five elements of the Prime material; Fey were actually created by Grome (known as Grumbar on Toril). When the world was Sundered (there was only ONE sundering, BTW), and Abeir was split-off from Toril, the Fey fled into the Feywild (which was just a demi-plane hewn from the stuff of dreams).
EDIT2:
How does this fit with Chalker's universe? Quite nicely, actually. The Sharns become the Markovians (Markovians looked like giant, human hearts). When the universe was created by 'GOD' (whatever you want to call 'it'), there were certain 'things' that existed already (and possibly 'GOD' formed from their collective consciousness). When Chaos was thrust from the universe ("Let there be Light!"), and the Planes were put in-order, most proto-species fled the 'new order' and created the Far Realms (outside of the Universe itself, within the roiling chaos of the Primal Soup). The term 'Far Realms' was actually coined by Primers - it really isn't so much a 'place', but rather a group of VERY different places outside of normal space-time (and laws like physics do not function the same way there, if at all). Each Aberrational race probably has its own Realm, but even the term 'race' doesn't apply the same way when talking about Far-Realmsian creatures (much worse then demons - those are merely corrupted with Chaos). Eberron's Xoriat becomes just one 'bubble' of madness floating in an endless sea of chaos.
The Sharn may be the only race that stayed behind, so this is why I think they may be FR's 'Markovians'. Perhaps they were the catalyst (THEIR overmind) that created GOD... who knows? Its also why many normal effects - like magic - simply roll off them (Chaos has its benefits).
Perhaps the name 'Shadevari' was actual an Umbrella-term for ALL those beings that existed before the Prime Material was born. Beings that evolved in a cold and dark universe, who had to fend for themselves without magic or gods. I think I like that - 'Shadevari' wasn't a race, it was a descriptor. Things that existed 'in the shadows', before there was Light and Darkness. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Dec 2010 03:41:15 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2010 : 07:22:58
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| I need to check some Spelljammer books, have an idea for the sharnstuff, kind of like one race in the Revelation Space novels called the Pattern Jugglers. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 10:25:25
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I really got carried away, even changed my timeline of the universe, still think the War of Light and Darkness was in the beginning, only that it never ended.
If the sharnpool is about information/light, what are the pools of radiance, the same? Maybe the sharns are the raw energy filters like the Weave, and remnants of the previous universe's Mystra. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
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15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 16:58:30
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I had decided that the WoL&D had taken place immediately following the Black Diamond debacle (that is what I had in that lost mythology piece I wrote), and I figured that out BEFORE Gray pointed me to the 4e lore that substantiates that claim.
If you read through the Savage Frontier, you will see that that was the way it was always supposed to be - the Creator Races were destroyed when Shar's moon was obliterated (and pieces of it came raining down onto Abeir-Toril).
In fact, pieces of Shar still exist - everyone can see them - and every so often another chunk falls to earth (or Toril, in this case).
I had that theory back when I first became an FR DM - note Shar's symbol - A Black Moon. The more I re-read old sources, the more I am convinced of it.
What I really want to know is who's giant skull is that floating in the void? 
The Last Universe:
Haven't given this a whole lot of thought - it was just a seed of an idea for me. I suppose that if the Sharn are trying to maintain the current universe, they either created it (directly or indirectly), or 'feel guilty' about the prior universe* (for whatever reason). That means that the Phaerimm could be 'The Adversary' - the Phaerimm either were responsible for the destruction of the prior universe, or are creatures that embrace Chaos (and Cthon) and want the universe to revert to its 'primal State' (which is the way I'm leaning). I don't think there really was 'another universe' - using my theories about the Markovian model, I would say the Universe was VERY different originally; just blobs of semi-stable matter and energy existing in the cosmic soup (just like the Elemental Maelstrom), almost like some kind of titanic, 'cosmic lavalamp'. After the universe gained consciousness (which may have come-about through the sharn Overmind), the 'new universe' was written over the old one, which still exists, beneath the surface.
RW Analogy: Just because most programmers today don't know how to script in Assembler, doesn't mean the code isn't there, beneath Windows (or whatever platform you are running). In this analogy, the original universe is the Bios, which is immutable and exists below the layer of the OS.
Most of the Aberrational races (which don't necessarily have to 'look weird') would have found the new universe 'too cluttered' for their tastes, and either 'fled into the void', or were expunged by the Overmind (God, Demiurge, whatever).
Also, in my model, I leave room for something even 'beyond GOD' - If the universe is run like a 'cosmic bureaucracy', then it stands to reason that the D&D universe is just one of many universes, and even God may have 'a boss' somewhere.
*One theory is that the Sharn are responsible for the Phaerimm, who are trying to destroy the Universe, and it is that 'guilt' that drives them. It could be similar to the relationship the Skrulls have with the Dire Wraiths in Marvel comics.
Conduits of Power:
Thats what Gates, Terminus points, 'Pools', Moonwells, even the stars themselves... all are. CoP's all look similar - almost uniformly round pools of energy that draw upon other dimensions for their power. Deities use these to draw energy when they are in the Prime Material (usually as an Avatar). EVERY divine being uses them, and with them they can exchange energy back-and-forth with their worshipers - granting spells, and receiving 'Elan' (Radiance in the form of Faith). BEFORE their were organized religions in the world (and I mean ALL worlds), gods - not JUST deities - needed these conduits while using vast amounts of energy to build the universe. In modern times, most gods have churches that fill this role - any consecrated 'Holy Site' acts as a conduit directly to and from that god. More 'primitive' gods - usually the nature deities - may still rely heavily upon the older system of 'Pools' to exchange energy (think Eldath).
The majority of still-functional 'Pools' (Conduits of Power) are still attuned to radiance, because that was their original 'setting'. Unless re-attuned by a god (or other being of immense power), the pool remains set to whatever plane it was previously drawing energy from. This accounts for much (if not all) of FR's lore regarding Gates, Moonwells, and Pools. The reason why all the stars (that we know of) are portal's to the Plane of Radiance (that's canon) is because those are Mystra's personal Conduits (her runes are written all across the sphere - also canon).
Think about it - the world is enclosed by an immense field of darkness - the Crystal Sphere itself - and it is perforated with millions of 'holes' that lead to Radiance. Sounds a LOT like how Ed has described the Weave and the Shadoweave, and their relationship. Shar tried to blanket the world in darkness, and Selune sacrificed much of her own divine energies to stop that from happening, by 'blasting away' at Shar.
The shell looks the way it does for the same reason the Victims of the St. Valentine's day massacre did - its battle-damage, and riddled with holes.
Mystra's Weave and the Shadoweve are really NOT different things - they are two sides of the same coin. Mystra was composed of both Light and Dark energy. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Dec 2010 17:03:52 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 17:51:54
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Wow - while looking for undead fey for the other thread, I happen to go through MC Annual, Vol.1 - LOTS of useful bits in there!
Found Hammer Golems, which could be used as a template for yet another thread (the Blade-Golems one) Bizarrly, I had created something similar for my HB lore for the map I am working on (the Blade Golems of Illefarn were created by dwarves, based on an earlier dwarven model - now I actually HAVE ONE!) The rest of that I will save for 'the surprise'.
As for Fey (yes... we still talk about those here... ), the Tressym are written-up there (I didn't realize they have bat-wings!), along with two other varieties of 'Winged cat'. The Gnasher is a similar crature, but more dog-like, and would make an excellent enemy for Feywild Tressym (could be why the Tressym were created). The Gnasher would fit better in the Shadowfel, or perhaps as a creature that lives where the two planes overlap (getting a 'Shadowlands' vibe here, which is used in Rokugon/3eOA).
Al-Jahar seem to be distantly related to Will-O-Wisps, but feed off of human emotion. Could possibly be some form of vampiric fey (not officially, but we can still work with it). Their rarely-seen natural form is just a bunch of light-motes and heat.
Baelnorn are also in there (thought I'd mention that).
The Talking Bird would also make a nice addition to the Feywild, as perhaps a tropical variant of the Hsiao (those are in the Mystara supplement). Campestri also beg to be there (anything mushroom-related does).
I think the only dragons found in the Feywild should be Linnorms. I was thinking drakes (which I think of as proto-dragons), but the Linnorms in that MC are just so much cooler (Tony DiTerlizzi did ALL the art!)
Some very sexy elementals in there, including the dwarven Azer, but not directly related to the topic.
Petty Faeries! Seriously - WAY cool. I almost think the artist made those up himself (they have his feel). It says that the Squeakers are androgynous, and also says they breed like crazy (like faery-vermin), but doesn't explain how that is possible (do these things just use Motosis? How weird is THAT?) 
Feystag - another feline, seemingly related to jackalopes (or rather, why does so many things 'fey' have horns?). Come on - cat with antlers? Definitely a winner.
Foulwings, which are FR, are in there. Not fey-related, but they did remind me of something else I read just last night (The Dark Alliance rode 'black dragons' - how very Nazgul of them!) The Gorynych is also an FR critter (from the Hordelands), but also unrelated to the topic. Helmed Horrors also in there (a human magic based on the dwarven Hammer Golems?), as well as Loxo & Ophidians. Its interesting how many FR-specific creatures became core over the years.
Jarbo make another critter that would work well in the feywild.
Laraken (magic-drinkers) are worth mentioning because they may be related to the psuedo-topic of this thread (magic, the planes, sharn, Chaos, etc). Nishruu also in there (as well as magebane), which appear to be a similar creature.
Psionic lich - also not topic-related, but relevant for anyone wanting to do something cool in a Jaamdath ruin.
Loup du Noir lycanthropes in there - since our Fey now sound French (Le'Shay), I think these guys would work as a human subtype in the feywild. The Marrishi are in there as well - would make a good nemesis for Guardinals (which come from the Beastlands - what are you doing with the Happy Hunting Grounds Quale?)
Nightshades - those 'Arboreal Dwarves' from an early FR supplement - are in there as well.
Noran also beg to be in the feywild - very similar to Darktrees (anti-treants), which are also in this tome (along with Singing trees!)
The Ormyrr are interesting (I placed an Ormyrr realm in southern Kara-Tur). They are actually a converted mist giant from the 1st printing of DD (after TSR puled the Melnibonean mythos from the book). Not related to this topic (again - sorry), but relevant for some of my other musings (regarding the Yuan-ti and Rakshasa).
The Suwyze could be yet-another denizen of the Far realms.
Tatalla are another creature begging to be Unseelie fey (cyclopian Brownie assassins!) Considering the Cylcops were brought-into faery lore through the Fomorians (in Brian's article), I'd say this could be a very specific result of breeding.
The Undead dwarf deserves an honorable mention because it relates to the other fey thread.
All-in-all, an excellent source, and much usable for the Feywild (which could be attributed to DiTerlizzi's amazing art).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 07 Dec 2010 17:59:00 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2010 : 19:44:00
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Actually, I did mention them (in the same line as the Noran).
Just about every single critter in there is a winner, and at least half of them are FR and Ed creations. I'm going to have to go through all my other MM/MC's now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Fey realms
