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Gouf
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 21:01:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
quote:
Originally posted by Gouf
I'm having an alignment problem with a LG Cleric butting heads mostly with a N fighter. All the other characters are either NG or CG. The problem being, he believes he can save and reform every villain they encounter. Frequently blowing surprise by boldly/stupidly stepping out and offering them a chance to surrender.
I mean, I know there's lawful good, but this is Mr. Rogers Good.
Have you tried showing him the Lawful Good article which is also part of the Lawful Stupid article? Reading of good examples or not so good examples can be enough for some people to get them to realize how annoying/ frustrating they are being.
Good article. Thank you. He's definitely type 2....
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"Why is the torch burning blue?" |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2011 : 22:12:10
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You're welcome. I rather enjoyed it myself.
Oh! I just discovered they have The Gamers 2: Dorkness Rising. They were actually allowed to reference D&D in that one. There is a paladin in that, and I think it's pretty hilarious. I'm sure we can all recognize someone we know in that movie.
I only bring it up because silly things like that can help people realize how ridiculous they are being. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 05:19:17
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So what's a DM to do when a player says he's perfectly fine with disrupting the flow of the adventure (published ones mind you) so that it makes the DM "think" more?
This pretty much happend to my group this evening as I re-invited a friend to play with us as he lost his job. We're roughly about 3rd level in the Moonsea region (Melvaunt to be exact) where I'm setting up the PCs to do the Devil's Fire Tavern adventure. This should get them ready for the Sons of Gruumsh adventure where it'll bring them up to about level 6. But sadly, the Player in question started the adventure going into the Devil's Fire Tavern and killing most of the commoners and thugs sitting there-in. The attack caused the owner to flee, fearing that the authorities would somehow find his illegal slave trafficing. The other players attempted to talk to the new-character but he was content to play his fiddle and drink amid 3 heavily slaughtered sailors. Needless to say a fight happened, got the authorities involved, and scared off any would-be slavers to buying the illegal goods. This makes the NPC furious at the PCs for destorying the hard work the NPC did and now well, the XP gained is probably not enough for the PCs to really stand a chance against the Sons of Gruumsh.
Now, I'm all for player diversity and mixing things up but the new addition just likes causing disruption not only among the players involved but with the storyline. I mean, I've not seen his character sheet because it's on his Laptop and when he rolls, he hadn't rolled an attack below a 19 all night.....wow. I'd hate to accuse someone of cheating as we're all good friends but I think something needs said.
Suggestions on how I should diplomaticly handle the situation? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 05:50:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
So what's a DM to do when a player says he's perfectly fine with disrupting the flow of the adventure (published ones mind you) so that it makes the DM "think" more?
This pretty much happend to my group this evening as I re-invited a friend to play with us as he lost his job. We're roughly about 3rd level in the Moonsea region (Melvaunt to be exact) where I'm setting up the PCs to do the Devil's Fire Tavern adventure. This should get them ready for the Sons of Gruumsh adventure where it'll bring them up to about level 6. But sadly, the Player in question started the adventure going into the Devil's Fire Tavern and killing most of the commoners and thugs sitting there-in. The attack caused the owner to flee, fearing that the authorities would somehow find his illegal slave trafficing. The other players attempted to talk to the new-character but he was content to play his fiddle and drink amid 3 heavily slaughtered sailors. Needless to say a fight happened, got the authorities involved, and scared off any would-be slavers to buying the illegal goods. This makes the NPC furious at the PCs for destorying the hard work the NPC did and now well, the XP gained is probably not enough for the PCs to really stand a chance against the Sons of Gruumsh.
Now, I'm all for player diversity and mixing things up but the new addition just likes causing disruption not only among the players involved but with the storyline. I mean, I've not seen his character sheet because it's on his Laptop and when he rolls, he hadn't rolled an attack below a 19 all night.....wow. I'd hate to accuse someone of cheating as we're all good friends but I think something needs said.
Suggestions on how I should diplomaticly handle the situation?
As for the character sheet, you as a DM have every right to examine it. If you want to be diplomatic, say you need to examine it to better tailor the adventure to everyone's abilities.
As for disrupting the session... Let him wind up in jail as a consequence of his actions. That'll be a boring bit of roleplaying for him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 08:47:28
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aye, I agree. no game should ever be played with a character the DM hasn't scrutinized first. I have a very strict rule about overseeing Character Creation process; not to have any real say on the character concept, mind you (except to say "no" to this or that out-of-the-question desire/plan, or to offer some advice when specifically asked for it). I simply mean to be there to make sure that nothing gets out of hand, and that I am fully aware of who is playing and what they are capable of. every DM needs to be.
as for the Sons of Gruumsh, it isn't difficult to power it down sme if you need to. also, you can totally add some filler in between to get the characters leveled up appropriately. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Edited by - ChieftainTwilight on 26 Apr 2011 08:48:22 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2011 : 10:57:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As for the character sheet, you as a DM have every right to examine it. If you want to be diplomatic, say you need to examine it to better tailor the adventure to everyone's abilities.
As for disrupting the session... Let him wind up in jail as a consequence of his actions. That'll be a boring bit of roleplaying for him.
Ah, that's a pretty good idea. I'll definitly be doing that next session if he comes back. As for throwing him in jail, I did that but he killed all but one witness and the witness has a long track record for doing illegal things and his reputation isn't very clean. It ended up being a "he said, she said" argument and the new Player rolled a 23 Bluff check (yea, he's a Fighter  ). So of course the authorities let him go based on his words and the normal sort of customers frequenting the devil's fire tavern.
quote:
Originally posted by ChieftainTwilight
aye, I agree. no game should ever be played with a character the DM hasn't scrutinized first. I have a very strict rule about overseeing Character Creation process; not to have any real say on the character concept, mind you (except to say "no" to this or that out-of-the-question desire/plan, or to offer some advice when specifically asked for it). I simply mean to be there to make sure that nothing gets out of hand, and that I am fully aware of who is playing and what they are capable of. every DM needs to be.
as for the Sons of Gruumsh, it isn't difficult to power it down sme if you need to. also, you can totally add some filler in between to get the characters leveled up appropriately.
True, I'll be taking a good, hard look at his char. sheet when I get a chance. I'm fairly certain he's broken the cross-class skill ranks rule, probably feat allotment rule, and his stats (being 32 point buy) are all wrong.
I'll have the PCs go through another quick Skirmish to hopefully bring them in line with the next adventure, and I can always scale it down for them, like you said.
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2011 : 08:15:51
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32 point-buy? damn, I though I was generous with 30! o_O;
hah! XD ya know, I once got bitched at by a player who wanted to play a Monk because 30 point wasn't enough for him to be able to play a "good monk." he claimed he "couldn't do anything" because he didn't have at least 4 stats of +2 or up. and actually, he could have in fact have had that!
I ended up having to yell at him to get him to stop ranting over top of me explaining that "good character" does not mean someone who is great at (or even capable of) doing EVERYTHING his class is designed to have potential for, but that it instead means that the character has two or three areas of expertise that he is exceptionally skilled at, or one that he is incredible at. nuts to the rest.
I even gave him some examples. a Monk with high Dexterity and Wisdom could be a very good defensive fighter. one with high Strength and Wisdom could be a powerfull striker. he had plenty of points to have 3 particularly good stats, if he chose to sacrifice in another area... perhapshe didn't need social skills, so throw Charisma out and get a good Str, Dex and Wis for a finnessed ninja-type athlete, or Str, Con and Wis for a powerhouse brute. another angle could be to include a moderate to high Intelligence score, wracking up skill points and perhaps even a knowledge skill (in my games, Monks have Knowledge [Any] as a class skill). or, if he wanted to have a high Charisma there is nothing wrong with that. he could get Diplomacy.
point being, DMs these days are too damned soft. >.> you can't budge an inch or they'll walk all over you and tear your world aprt at the seems. you'll be driven mad when they've infiltraed the King's Castle for the umphteenth time just to play keepaway with his tupee as a mean prank. ONLY THE DUNGEON MASTER'S BEST BBEG SHOULD BE POWERFUL ENOUGH TO DO POOPY LIKE THAT FOR POOPS'N'GIGGLES! T-T
Mod edit: Language, please.  |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Apr 2011 11:11:05 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 01:40:50
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| lol, Diffan that's easy. Obviously the locals - fearing for their lives and livelihood - simply hire a party of heroes to deal with this murderously threatening new bully. Or the bad NPCs - fearing for their lives and livelihood - hire an assassin. Or both. The PCs might be chased into Sons of Gruumsh, they might be forced to turn on their troublesome companion or share in his consequences. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 04:21:26
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I was more mad at the fact that he derailed the campaign just for derailment sake. He had no alterior motives, no reasons for killing some drunken sailors, and no backstory that might define WHY he is the way he is. Simply put, he's a horrible Role-Player and the group was pretty sick of him by the end of the night.
I've decided (with the rest of the group adding their 2-cents) not to invite him back. Honestly, we're gearing up for 4E play in the next month and he hates the system (oddly enough because he says it stifles role-play  ). I do feel as though he did run rough-shod over the session and it was a great less for me on how NOT to DM, and very many thanks for the intriguing ideas on dealing this his type in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by Chieftan Twilight
32 point-buy? damn, I though I was generous with 30! o_O;
We're very much used to rolling for stats (4d6, discard the lowest, roll 7 times and more than three scores of 9 or lower is a mulligan) so high ability scores is often the norm for us. A 32-point buy in my groups eyes is pretty rough going because it might involve some negative penalities, hahaha.
I figured since most of the stuff we were doing was going to be published adventures, I had to tone it down somewhat as I didn't want them to have a cake-walk through the campaign. |
Edited by - Diffan on 28 Apr 2011 04:23:27 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2011 : 18:45:57
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| 32-buy (from 6x8 base scores) is a standard system, i thought? |
[/Ayrik] |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 06:46:12
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32 is the highest amount suggested in the Dungeon Master's Guide, which they detail as being for extremely difficult high-risk heroic adventures, the equivalent of going to Hell at 1st level and coming back in a hand-basket at 4th. ... think Diablo II. XD
the standard is 25 point-buy, with a suggested auto set of six pre-determined scores (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8).
however, I've found that the 30 point-buy system that I use is common among official D&D games online. still though, far too many people are used to high scores, because of the traditional "4d6 minus lowest dice" rule. in fact, the uneven (and especially high) results of those rolls are exactly WHY I stick to a strict point-buy system. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 07:51:49
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Uniform point-buy systems are excellent for standardization and essential for stuff like RPGA; there's always at least one guy who claims he actually rolled all those 17s and 18s ...
Longterm games tend to involve fixed house rules and DMs who (rightfully) disallow character imports without strict auditing. I haven't yet met a grumble of grognards who haven't established their own convoluted attribute (er, "ability score") generation rituals. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2011 : 15:06:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Uniform point-buy systems are excellent for standardization and essential for stuff like RPGA; there's always at least one guy who claims he actually rolled all those 17s and 18s ...
Exactly. The reason I put a point-buy in place was because 90% of the adventures they were doing were going to be published adventures (Sons of Gruumsh, Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor, and City of the Spider Queen) in addition to a few minor quests in the Mysteries of the Moonsea book and 1 mission that I did up on my own. I didn't want a PC with crazy stats overshadowing anyone else at the table.
I also thought the DMG said 28 point buy was standard? And going to 32 was for high-powered campaigns. Still, not as high-powered as if my PCs were rolling for dice. |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 02:27:23
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| 28 was for high-powered games. 32 was for REALY high-powered games. 25 is standard. I think 18 was for low-powered games. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 03:01:35
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| oh yeh. I'd never think of subjecting my players to that pitiful number... even if they were to just start off as homely peasantry I'd give them 25 points. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 03:13:44
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can I gripe about alleged players who claim they want to play in my game but who keep skipping out every time they have a day off or get off of work?
they don't answer their phone calls, and they get bitchy about all the questions for planning and/or character discussion! what the hell did they think was required for getting them to JOIN AN ONGOING CAMPAIGN!?
good gods! and one of them keeps changing his character concept over and over! it's fine, realy, but he's saying his reason is because he's looking for something "unique" that nobody's thought of before.... this woul be greatbut for two reasons.
1.) he keeps thinking up pretty cliche archetypes, alot of which are BLATANTLY based on fictional characters from all over.
and 2.) he won't be satisfied until he stumps me, which has two problems of it's own.
2a.) I won't be able to help him create the character in the first place if he "stumps" me, and he doesn't know how to create a character.
and 2b.) my SPECIALTY is creating unique, interesting, out-of-the-box character concepts and statting them out. he's not going tostump me, it's impossible. even if he comes up with a concept I've never seen before, I'll have it form itself in my mind almost instantly. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2011 : 06:24:55
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| heh. it can be kinda funny when you play a sandbox game, or one where everyone's split up to do their own thing. but in a game where there's a solid quest it doesn't make sense for the characters pursuing aforementioned quest to be cycled in and out over and over inconsistantly. |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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ChieftainTwilight
Learned Scribe
171 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2011 : 07:04:20
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I was mainly thinking about the idea that... "ok, now we've got a group that no longer has ANY of the original party members, finishing the quest that was started by a completely different group of people... and sooner or later, every single one of us will be replaced as well, and they'll keep doing the same quest, from where WE left off."
... where would these folks get the motivation? I mean, yeh it's not out of the question that they'd just go along with the same quest, but is't it likely that someone would pipe up and say "ya know, why do we care? clearly the first group didn't, they gave up already." |
and a heart can only break so many times
and I've been to hell and back so many times
and I've seen folks walk away so many times
but just like anyone else I gotta stand up by myself
and a heart can only break so many times
a heart can only break so many times
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Jorin Embersmith
Acolyte
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2011 : 18:03:17
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Here's a doozy for you!
The same player who made the super-cleric-of-turning always chooses pets, companions and so on based on special abilities. (bat familiar for blindsight, yadda yadda)...
Now, they were fighting in a dead-magic zone, and the shadow-weave using bad girl killed the lights.
The Druid's pet cat has scent. So, it's pitch black, The evil priestess of Shar is hurling shadow weave spells, and he has the cat track her by scent.
My argument was this. The exact wording of the scent is "..pinpoints the sources location". To me this means the 5 foot square in which the priestess was standing. Of course, players made an uproar over this, saying that it's exactly the same as seeing it with normal vision. I say that it the same as pinpointing an invisible character...you know the place where he is, but you STILL suffer miss chance.
Does anyone know if there are any other rules about scent vs. invisibility or scent vs. being blinded? What do the great lorekeepers of Candlekeep say?
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Karavarus: I polymorph into a Hydra and let loose a bellowing roar! Is he intimidated?
Me: No, but the female hydra behind him certainly notices you... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2011 : 11:55:20
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| I say the scent ability would trump invisibility. Invisibility trumps only one sense -- it doesn't make anyone inaudible or intangible or anything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4436 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2011 : 04:14:21
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Basically the rules on attacking invisble individuals is pretty shoddy using 3E. In your instance, the target is sniffed out and the player would know what square they are in. But this just negates the randomness of possibly attacking an empty square. They would still suffer the %50 chance miss, but know what square they're targeting. That ability alone is pretty impressive for your "supposed" to roll randomly in and hope you pick the right square. And while various ways is done to accomplish this, I make them roll a d10, and reroll all 1's. 2, 3, 4 is the top row; 5, 6, 7 is the middle row; and 8, 9, 10 is the bottom row.
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2011 : 00:04:40
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| I'd rule that they do indeed know where the enemy is. Unless they are small or less in size, they will be taking up most if not all of that square anyway, so missing by smell would be really hard. Dogs are known to sniff out the exact location of drugs, or missing persons, or anything else they are given the scent of, so even if they can't see it, they still know where it is. It's why dogs are so often used in search and rescue missions- they can literally sniff out a person under a ton of debris or snow, and dig straight to them. I dot't think a little darkness will deter that. (And since invis won't prevent you from making sounds, they can hone in on that, too, so the chance of missing will be next to zero.) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Gouf
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2011 : 18:03:13
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A player who shows up 1 out of every 4 gaming sessions and then complain that the story arc doesn't have enough personal involvement centering around their character.
We play 1 day a month for 10-12 hours. If he wants to place a higher priority on his other hobby interests that's fine, but don't complain the story doesn't revolve around your character when you only show up 25% of the time.
*Gets off the soap box* |
"Why is the torch burning blue?" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2011 : 19:43:23
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My problem is similar ... particular players have a penchant for showing 19/20 times, a respectable attendance record in most circles. After all it's a hobby, not a military formation, and we're all permitted an off-day from time to time.
But of course that one session the player is a no-show invariably happens to be the all-important fulcrum session which they really shouldn't miss for any reason whatsoever. I really, really hate having to dumb things down or install delaying tactics with improvised distractions/complications to occupy the rest of the group for a wasted day, or worse, having to arbitrarily role play the missing player's character through critical (and often catastrophically unpopular) decisions which are categorically not mine to make. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Gouf
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2011 : 21:05:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
I really, really hate having to dumb things down or install delaying tactics with improvised distractions/complications to occupy the rest of the group for a wasted day, or worse, having to arbitrarily role play the missing player's character through critical (and often catastrophically unpopular) decisions which are categorically not mine to make.
And that is exactly what I hate to do. If somebody misses 1 session, sure we (random other player) will auto pilot their character through the session, giving respect to not break the character by doing things the missing player wouldn't do.
But if they miss multiple sequential sessions, I bench them by having the character get called away, return to the keep, etc. and for fit all XP for that session. (Divided only by the players that are actually there.)
It's unfair to the other 4 players to sandbag them because 1 person doesn't show up. So I've just made sure to not hang any major plot points on that person's character. And reward the PC's that are there for having to think around not having party member 'X' with them.
It just ticked me that the person was upset that they were so far out of the story loop and didn't get all the in jokes and plot references they had missed. My reply was, "Show up. Problem solved." |
"Why is the torch burning blue?" |
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Gripe about your players
