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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 04:57:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Khelben may have served as a general in Realmslore. He has never shown any aptitude for the job in anything I've read.
Looking back, I think I might have been incorrect in saying otherwise. He wasn't even that effective a Chosen in the said trilogy, and I wouldn't necessarily blame Troy for that. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 15:46:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He wasn't even that effective a Chosen in the said trilogy, and I wouldn't necessarily blame Troy for that.
-Given other depictions of him, and what we cannonically know about Khelben, I would. |
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Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 16:06:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
He wasn't even that effective a Chosen in the said trilogy, and I wouldn't necessarily blame Troy for that.
-Given other depictions of him, and what we cannonically know about Khelben, I would.
Ditto, but I'd also add in, as further evidence, the way other non-Denning NPCs were handled in the trilogy. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 19:03:36
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Khelben is more of a schemer though, not a bad quality for employing tactics; but as a full on general I doubt Khelben would be a great one. I'd guess particularly the Simbul as better suited for the task. Good battle awareness, aquired through battlefield experience, would be a good quality for a mage-general. Being at or affecting the right place at the right time is one of the major advantages a good wizard has when on a battlefield. If such a wizard combines that ability with an aptitude for predicting the flow of a battle, you'll see why a single high level mage can disable an opposing army.
I guess in ancient times that the Imascari Sorcerers where very skilled generals who might have written a book on battlespell tactics or two. With high level magic so prevalent on the battlefields of that time, the generals had to account for the specialised arms race this entails. Developement of efficient battlespells could change a tried and true tactic from effictive to disastrous.
A figure like the Simbul has immense firepower, unpredicatble movement methods, immunities and high defences at its command, making fighting it with a troop formation next to impossible. What tactics could have been devised to counter such a force of nature on a battlefield? A specialised horsebreed bred to not fear flashy magic effects, mounted with horse archers with high powered bows might be able to manage, as would a charge of a fully buffed winged cavalry of blessed warriors like paladins.
Another thing. Have there ever been armies on Faerun that had more arcane casters than regular troops? If so, who introduced this tactic? |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 19:15:18
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quote:
Bladewind
Have there ever been armies on Faerun that had more arcane casters than regular troops? If so, who introduced this tactic?
The answer depends on the "regular troops". Most human armies assign a spellcaster to every unit, or group all the spellcasters together in special-purpose detached units. While I'd expect the bulk of an elven army would be composed of fighter/mage types who outnumber the "regular" warriors possessing no spellcraft. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 19:21:27
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In the Waterdeep novel, Khelben did fine in affecting the flow of the battle with his own magic. Unfortunately, that makes him a good battery commander, not a general.
The existence of magical means of communication and intelligence gathering should mean that it's possible to direct even a large army with precision and knowledge of the situation that would seem miraculous even to a modern radio equipped force. Unfortunately, a lot of authors have their supposedly smart and experienced magic-user characters be as ignorant of what a general's job actually is as they are themselves.
One would think that one of the things to do when writing a book is research, which ought to cover acquiring enough understanding of the things your characters do in the course of the story to make you able to write plausibly about them, but I guess that it's not really a priority for a lot of writers.
To write good stories in a fantasy world, the author must understand how something works in the real world and then how the magic and other different metaphysics of the setting would plausibly affect that. If there are paradigm-altering abilities in the setting and the author ignores their effect, the impression he gives is that the character who failed to make use of his available options is incompetent.
Since a lot of aspiring authors think that writing is a matter of imagination, not a lot of work and research, a fair bit of people who manage to get published aren't knowledgable about much at all, except possibly how to meet deadlines and polish style enough to suit an editor. Hence, there are a lot of supposedly intelligent and able characters in fiction, particularly fantasy fiction set in shared worlds*, whose abilities are mostly informed, not shown.
*While the best authors in the world might indeed choose to write stories set in shared worlds, and some of them have, the geniuses at the height of the writing craft have a choice of many other books to write, many of which pay more and provide them with more artistic freedom. A lot of authors do not have the choice, at least not yet, because their name recognition or their talent alone won't suffice to sell books without a pre-established market and a setting brand, so the general level of talent, education and intelligence is lower among writers who write shared-world fiction on spec. Just a consequence of talent often going where the money is. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2012 : 01:42:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
Bladewind
Have there ever been armies on Faerun that had more arcane casters than regular troops? If so, who introduced this tactic?
The answer depends on the "regular troops". Most human armies assign a spellcaster to every unit, or group all the spellcasters together in special-purpose detached units. While I'd expect the bulk of an elven army would be composed of fighter/mage types who outnumber the "regular" warriors possessing no spellcraft.
Well, the Shadovar army is composed mostly of arcane spellcasters. Roughly 95%, and the rest are priests.
And of course, Halruaa as well. Aglarond is near enough, so as Thay. Rashemen would have been, too, if they train 'battle witches' as many as berserkers. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2013 : 20:05:12
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Added the bold king Beldoran to the list.
This guy and his host carved themselves a kingdom in the orc, ogre and kobold infested badlands of Thar and settled Glister. He fought many of the ogres and orcs that had fled into the Galena Mountains and who tried to reclaim their territories. He built two bastions from which Glister could grow. His demise was in 1303 DR in a fortified stable in long lost Nouth somewhere south east of Glister. |
My campaign sketches
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Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Kno
Senior Scribe
452 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2013 : 17:19:09
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| troll warlord named Harska Thaug from the Firebringer adventure |
z455t |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2013 : 00:27:09
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Imphras the Great of Impiltur. Defeated the hobgoblin horde of 1095 DR and then took on and beat Thay when coming to the aid of Thesk.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2013 : 20:34:22
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Imphras the Great of Impiltur. Defeated the hobgoblin horde of 1095 DR and then took on and beat Thay when coming to the aid of Thesk.
-- George Krashos
I didn't know Imphras fought the Thayans...every day a surprise in the Realms!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2013 : 22:00:40
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Added Imphras and Thaug to the list.
A troll general is quite rare, but Harska Thaug proved both tenacious and cunning. Trolls ruling over orcs is a rare occurance, but one succesfully leading a horde and sacking whole realms is even more impressive. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11857 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2013 : 17:58:11
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Hmmm, one thing that comes to mind with all this is who were the great generals and who were the great leaders. In the case of Imphras that George mentions, for instance, it may have been that he was both. However, I wonder about other instances (for instance, was King Azoun a master general.... or did he just take the advice of master generals and serve as a very powerful leader).
What made me think about that was my first thoughts upon seeing him mention Thay was to think of the Thayan uprising against Mulhorand. Without a doubt, they pulled off some pretty amazing tactical moves (such as summoning and then imprisoning Eltab). So, my initial thoughts were that the leader, Ythazz Buvaar, must have been a great general. However, I think successful leadership doesn't necessarily mean being a great general. It may have been that there were others in his ranks that were being the tactical minds while Ythazz was being the guiding figurehead for what was in essence at the time, a rising cult. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2013 : 18:36:02
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How about that self-styled lich king who managed to unite a plethora of orcs in The Netheril trilogy? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Great Generals of the Realms
