| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 06:13:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
I think you are confusing the Ba'etith with all sarrukh. Of course the sarrukh were not kindly. But the Ba'etith do not represent the sarrukh. The Ba'etith had sarrukh members. But the Ba'etith had batrachi and aearee members over time. The purpose of the Ba'etith was to develop, preserve and spread knowledge of magic. They did not seek to keep it solely for the sarrukh. In that sense they were indeed a charitable organization. Magic boosters if you will. A magical fraternity not unlike the Rotarians or the Shriners.
The agenda of the Ba'etith is well in-line with Mystryl/Mystra's agenda to spread and encourage the use of magic. And I somewhat suspect it has not died out as an institution but may have survived to this day, though perhaps under another name.
Can you think of any secret organizations run by chosen of Mystra that might fit the bill?
It's odd, but I had always seen the Coiled Cabal as some sort of an offshoot of the Ba'etith; perhaps not a direct intellectual or magical 'descendant' of the fabled loremasters, but more a child's imitation of their elders' work.
There are any number of groups who make it their business to preserve ancient magical learning, and others who work to spread new lore; there are a handful that have tried a syncretic approach, blending numerous styles, and others that concern themselves with the constand pushing back of the boundaries of theory; but only the Ba'etith have managed to do all of the above simultaneously, with stunning success and unrivaled longevity.
The only other group which has managed to preserve a magical tradition of an 'elder age' in a successful, sustained, and reasonably widespread fashion that springs to mind are the Wychlaren; it is perhaps fitting that the lore they have preserved is the only ancient (possibly pre-Weave) form of magic which we know to have been largely omitted from the Nether Scrolls (since they are the inheritors of the Rashemi lore, which was strongly influenced by the Imaskari, who were themselves schooled by the Fey- and Fey magics were, IIRC, omitted from the Golden Skins of the World Serpent). Also fitting that, totally unlike the Ba'etith, they hoard their lore, and fight tooth and nail to keep it confined to their ranks.
Who did you have in mind, Gray? The Chosen? You could certainly make a case for it, but I tend not to really think of them as a 'group'; more like lightly herded cats  .
NOTE: If this is incoherent babble, I apologize; the painkillers kicked in somewhere after the first para and my post seems to have wandered.  |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 04 Jan 2011 06:28:41 |
 |
|
|
creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 12:46:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
You made it sound as though the Terraseer "taught" the Netherese magic, or so it seems to me. Even without his influence, the Netherese, upon the birth of the archwizards and their rise to power, would have still been haughty enough to defy the gods, to view them as mere wizards possessing unique and potent powers.
It could be possible, that: Due to the fact that the Netherese didn't create the Netherscrolls, they haven't realized how to fully master its use.
There were some instances where the Terraseer (an original architect) told the Netherese's most powerful wizard (Karsus) something he had no knowledge of yet. (Mystryl going to face a challenge in -345 DR).
WHich creates a fact that Arthindol had more knowledge in magic compared to Karsus.
So, if the most powerful wizard of the Netherese was bested in lore by an original architect of the NEtherscrolls, it could mean that the Bae'tith proved to be more knowledgeable compared to them. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
Edited by - creyzi4zb12 on 04 Jan 2011 14:59:44 |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 15:26:28
|
| Even without their aid, one way or another, Karsus wouuld still have learned of it. He couldn't be called the greatest archwizard for nothing. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2011 : 18:39:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Even without their aid, one way or another, Karsus wouuld still have learned of it. He couldn't be called the greatest archwizard for nothing.
And shouldn't. 
Seriously, though, natural talent can only take you so far. Without an established knowledgebase to build on, I don't think Karsus would have been able to do all that he did. He'd've had to waste time figuring out the intermediate steps, instead of just jumping to the end. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 22:58:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Even without their aid, one way or another, Karsus wouuld still have learned of it. He couldn't be called the greatest archwizard for nothing.
And shouldn't.
Allistair will surely disagree. =)
I bet Karsus had enough time to waste to figure it out. The dread of phaerimm's life drain spell, as I understand, would take millenia to fully bring the empire down. Karsus needed less than that, I think. He was able to travel back to the past and into the future, so I believe he could gather enough aid to save his empire---in time (and ironically, destroy it, too, in time). |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 23:14:55
|
Unfortunately Karsus didn't heed the Terraseer's advice, which lead to his folly. Which proved him wrong. While Karsus was so powerful, his overconfidence seemed to be the end of him. Let's look at it this way, the Bae'tith knows how to cast spells that can steal a gods divinity, but they didn't perform the spell because of its consequences (which Karsus failed to see).
I even consider Candlemas' solution against the battle with the Phaerrim much better compared to what Karsus had in mind. (Candlemas advised him to use time-travel to defeat the Phaerimm BTW)
Karsus doesn't think of steps, nor does he think of the consequences. His adviser viewed his methods all destructive. He could whip out a time travel spell as if he was mentioning the English alphabet. Maybe Karsus was a bit of a radical thinker. But he is his own downfall. His flying city was in ruins before the fall of the Netheril, full of revolts and people dying from hunger, and he seemed to be blind of all of it. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
|
|
|
creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2011 : 23:19:28
|
| BTW: Karsus, seems to be like an opposite of a wizard. From the way he casts spells, and perform rituals, it was not wizardlylike. I don't think he worships any god of magic. It could be possible that he was one of the first Binders (a different class from a wizard) of the Netheril. Gaining access to true magic, instead of magic. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 01:59:47
|
| Karsus as a character has a lot of potential that unfortunately has not been realized, or maybe has been but simply for unknown reasons was not seen in print. Had he been relatively sane, most probably, MORE and more FR fans would have favored him...liked him more than they do Larloch. If he hadn't succumbed to madness, Netheril might still be standing now. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
creyzi4zb12
Learned Scribe
Philippines
129 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 10:06:05
|
| Hmmmm...I have this big idea that Karsus was originally a binder and not a wizard.....and his vestige was Amon...Maybe that's the reason why Karsus hates Amon up to this day. |
orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc orc |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2011 : 19:19:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by creyzi4zb12
Unfortunately Karsus didn't heed the Terraseer's advice, which lead to his folly.
Arrogance knows no bounds. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
The Terraseer
