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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:22:44
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In my group there's currently an ongoing discussion on what to do when one of the PCs might die in combat (or otherwise). They all feel that the bringing a character back is too easy, especially on higher levels when "True Resurrection" is within reach or at least financially feasible. There is a chance of repeatedly raising characters
On the other hand, they're all very attached to their current characters, so creating a new one after the death of the other isn't going to be likely.
I think "Raise Dead" provides a reasonable penalty for coming back from the dead, enough to make dying an ordeal and not some thing you can brush off with a few goldpieces. To make it all too easy I'm probably going to introduce the Death Feats and Flaws introduced in Kobold Quarterly #10 and maybe throw out the "True Resurrection" spell altogether. I think it's quite an overpowered spell, which only hurts players financially in a campaign setting full of treasure. Or would banning the spell be unfair to my players?
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Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
Edited by - mensch on 30 Aug 2010 16:23:40
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4470 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:38:05
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Well at the levels where True Resurrection becomes viable, the PCs should be able to afford the components of the spell. But the $$ of the spell components is quite high and is a deterrent from dying yet not TOO hight that makes coming back to life impossible. OR you could take a page out of 4E play-book and scale the cost of True Resurrection with the Character's level. Higher level characters are more powerful and thus deities are less likely to just allow them back to the world so costs of the spell could be higher.
But I'm of the mind of NOT imposing permament level loss or ability loss because it's just easier to roll up a new character than take a huge penality like that and keep on going. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:42:12
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All in all, I don't thing the spell is overpowered. It just has to be handled with ease on the part of the DM. Giving it away too easily takes away the awe of the spell, which it well deserves. After all, it is to be compared to a miracle/wish spell in its power (due to the spell level) and should be seen as a very special gift granted be the god.
In my ongoing Campaign I did not throw out the 'True Resurrection'. Having a cleric cast the spell on a PC is bound to certain prerequisites however:
* you would need a cleric of 15th level or higher to have it cast, which there are not too many around in the realms.
* it should be one of the PCs faith,
* and in good standing with the PC (not just any cleric of his faith)
* and he would have to have a diamond of the required price at hand
So, it's rather unlikely to have the spell cast in the first place and might be bound to other certain conditions as well (i.e. a quest, a high sum donation, etc.).
I started a similar discussion a while back - The Realms and raising the Dead. You might want to read throught it. We talked about diamonds and their availability as well.
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 30 Aug 2010 16:47:21 |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 17:31:45
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My PCs can live with level/ability loss, I think, as it can provide some interesting roleplaying possibilities. Also, there are plenty of ways to compensate for ability losses. Could you tell me on what page the scaling of the cost tied to "True Resurrection" is in the 4e PHB, Diffan?
Great pointers Ergdusch. I think I read parts of that thread a while ago when searching for material on resurrection in the Realms. Luckily there is no PC cleric in the current party, so they will always be dependent on NPCs for that range of spells. I think I'm going to use the prerequisites you mentioned.
Acquiring the diamonds could be a nice quest for the PCs to perform. The only problem is that the dead PC won't be participating in that quest and miss all the relevant XP rewards when he/she comes back. The NPC cleric could also perform the ritual for the proper fee and use diamonds already in his possession after the PCs agree to go on the aforementioned quest to fetch new diamonds, but with the freshly resurrected PC. Although, if a cleric were to trust his "customers" so easily the church would be in financial despair in no time. |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4470 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 18:05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by mensch
My PCs can live with level/ability loss, I think, as it can provide some interesting roleplaying possibilities. Also, there are plenty of ways to compensate for ability losses. Could you tell me on what page the scaling of the cost tied to "True Resurrection" is in the 4e PHB, Diffan?
If I remember correctly the Resurrection spell is a Ritual involving some heavy costing components which scale by tier (can't remember exactly cuz I'm AFB) and it requires a Heal check to complete. At cercain tiers the DC for the Heal check gets higher. For example at Heroic tier (lvl 1-10) it'd be something like Heal check DC 15 + Character level for the level of the character your attempting to raise.. When you hit Paragon and Epic tiers, the DC increases. Those aren't the actual numbers but you get my point. So while the Ritual is a few levels above 1st, it's not always a guarentee and its cost
quote:
Originally posted by mensch
Great pointers Ergdusch. I think I read parts of that thread a while ago when searching for material on resurrection in the Realms. Luckily there is no PC cleric in the current party, so they will always be dependent on NPCs for that range of spells. I think I'm going to use the prerequisites you mentioned.
Acquiring the diamonds could be a nice quest for the PCs to perform. The only problem is that the dead PC won't be participating in that quest and miss all the relevant XP rewards when he/she comes back. The NPC cleric could also perform the ritual for the proper fee and use diamonds already in his possession after the PCs agree to go on the aforementioned quest to fetch new diamonds, but with the freshly resurrected PC. Although, if a cleric were to trust his "customers" so easily the church would be in financial despair in no time.
If you wanted your PC thats dead to still be involved, have him play an NPC for the time being, like a mercenary or someone only slightly involved with the PC to recover the Diamond. It'll give him a chance to play another character (race, class, etc..) and his old one won't be completly out of the picture. Plut it adds RP flavor and stress on a party who just lost a friend/comrade. |
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mensch
Seeker
80 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 22:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
If I remember correctly the Resurrection spell is a Ritual involving some heavy costing components which scale by tier (can't remember exactly cuz I'm AFB) and it requires a Heal check to complete. At cercain tiers the DC for the Heal check gets higher. For example at Heroic tier (lvl 1-10) it'd be something like Heal check DC 15 + Character level for the level of the character your attempting to raise.. When you hit Paragon and Epic tiers, the DC increases. Those aren't the actual numbers but you get my point. So while the Ritual is a few levels above 1st, it's not always a guarentee and its cost
Rituals are very 4e, right? But the concept sounds interesting. I'm going to look that one up as soon as I get my hands on a 4e PHB.
quote:
Originally posted by mensch
If you wanted your PC thats dead to still be involved, have him play an NPC for the time being, like a mercenary or someone only slightly involved with the PC to recover the Diamond. It'll give him a chance to play another character (race, class, etc..) and his old one won't be completly out of the picture. Plut it adds RP flavor and stress on a party who just lost a friend/comrade.
Playing an NPC is certainly an option. The XP rewards during the sidequest won't go to the PC which is to be resurrected though, which might be a nice side-effect reminiscent of the obligatory level loss of "Raise dead" |
Some say the world will end in fire, Some say in ice. From what I’ve tasted of desire I hold with those who favor fire. But if it had to perish twice, I think I know enough of hate to know that for destruction ice is also great and would suffice. – Robert Frost (1874 - 1963) |
Edited by - mensch on 30 Aug 2010 22:19:38 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 22:24:25
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| mensch (and anyone else with similar thoughts regarding True Resurrection): Another thing you might want to look at in terms of the material components is the details of the diamonds used. If the spell requires unflawed, pure white/transparent diamonds with no hint of colouring (many diamonds have pink, green, blue, or other shades present if viewed in the right light), suddenly the material components are much more difficult to come by. I was at drivethruRPG.com a few days ago and found a brilliant (pun intended) product titled All the Treasures of the World: Gems. For $2.00 it's an absolute bargain for adding more variety to your gemstones. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 30 Aug 2010 22:25:58 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4470 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2010 : 17:27:40
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quote:
Originally posted by mensch
Rituals are very 4e, right? But the concept sounds interesting. I'm going to look that one up as soon as I get my hands on a 4e PHB.
Well rituals are like non-combative spells that require spell components, have laster effects, and take longer to perform. Often minutes or hours. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 01 Sep 2010 : 21:02:03
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Well... I have been playing my char. for 8 years now, and I love him! If I would have to accept a final death I would stop playing... ad least for a while.
If a character has the abilitieas to cast the spell himself, he just need to have the materials. He might have the funds to pay for the mats. but you still need to get hold of the diamonds you need, and that can be a problem. If there is no cleric in the group, then it can be a problem to lokate a priest or creric who is of the correct level to cast true ress... and the group will simply have to settle for less.
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Is True Resurrection overpowered?
