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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Sep 2010 : 04:32:01
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| Zanan, although the issue DOES feature several Greyhawk specific articles on drow ("Vault of the Drow", "Ashen Compact", and "Exiles from the Vault", mainly) most of the articles were intended to be used in ANY drow-themed campaign. Including FR. The stuff on driders was incidental, but the Tests would likely be the same from world to world. In particular, the first three articles (including the one on the tests) are really generic campaign articles, but there's nothing in them that is either world-specific or world-exclusive. I actually found a lot in them that was useful for any drow campaign. Not everyone seems to have liked that issue's contributions, but I found most of it right in line with their basic nature and mind-set. I especially liked the one titled "Flesh for Lolth: the Secret Life of Dark Elves". |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2010 : 10:37:59
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Like walking on spiders or mothers feeling a sexual *pang* when the children in their wombs kill each other off? The tests were hardly anything like those you encounter in any FR (up until after that article). One test - pass it and you are done for life (one way or another). Here, the tests get ever more ridiculuous (and please spare us with Lolth being capricious, evil, mean, chaotic and all that) and hardly surpassable by your everyday NPC drow priestess. If they'd go on like that, the males just have to wait and see how the lasses get done by their goddess. Still, as I said, this is all fine and well for the Greyhawk drow (who were always a touch more chaotic) or maybe some other setting, but the FR drow were detailed long before that stuff and hardly follow those lines of thought.
As of the Dragon, there is some stuff in there that is neat, no doubt (e.g., the PrC). Of course, one wonders why there was need to have the Vault of the Drow in there, only to be used and described in full once more in Drow of the Underdark (3.5E), which was not much less dissappointing a read either. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 28 Sep 2010 10:39:31 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2010 : 17:04:49
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I take it you don't like a lot of the 3.5 drow stuff then? I sort of thought the Tests made a lot of sense- each was detailed in what it was for and the consequences of failure. Personally, unless Lolth's gone soft in the FR, I'd say they fit her personality VERY well. And where ELSE is she going to get all those servant creatures?! Makes sense that the ones who get transformed would end up on her leash. Anyway, the whole point of those tests is to weed out the "unworthy" priestesses. Judging from the stats, and the level they are given at, none of hte tests seemed especially improbable to pass. Difficult, yes, but that's the whole point. Why make a test easy? That would be like giving kids a final test in school, and making it open-book, AND giving them the answers. In other words, pointless. Then again, Lolth really doesn't seem to be big on logic, so I suppose one could argue that she's TOO strict. I just chalk it up to her basic instability.
As to the stepping on spiders, yeah that didn't make as much sense, but considering how many of them tend to live in a typical drow city, it's not entirely unlikelt that a few might get squished by accident on occassion. The trick is not letting the priestesses FIND OUT about it!! (I'm sure plenty of commoners and disgruntled males kill them whenever they get the chance- just to spiet the priestesses. They just make sure no one SEES them do it...)
And of course- the Chad-zhak. Here's my thoughts. The article mentions that most drow women do not care for the inconvenience of child-birth and pregnency- it would be seen as vulnerability, since they are effectively reduced in mobility, energy, etc.- so the pangs (which are somewhat LIKE a feeling of sexual euphoria, not actually sexual in nature) are meant as a compensation, supposedly sent by Lolth to motivate them to keep their offspring. I liked the idea so much that I used it in a story of mine, which began with one of these battles in the womb between a twin brother and sister- where only one survived. The article gave me inspiration for what seems like a simple case of two infants jostling for room, but is in fact a bit more sinister, and ends with one ripping out the other's cord and thus causing death. Which is sort of how I see these "battles" taking place, rather than an actual "death-match" where one "devours" the other, as the article seems to suggest. I tried to think it through from a logical (and biological) stand-point. Though there is prescedent in the animal world with some species of live-bearing sharks, where the first eggs to hatch in the mother's womb eat the rest before being born. They get their first meal even before they are born!! I'm sure I could come up with other examples, but can't think of any off-hand. The point is that there are many ways of presenting this idea, and that was only one. Perhaps you'd come up with something different, but my notion just seemed sort of natural for a race that is habitually murderous. (If you're wondering, the victor in my tale was the male, and "touched" by the Dark Maiden- thus slapping Lolth in the face TWICE!!)
Keep in mind, very little has been mentioned in the canon lore for FR of their day-to-day lives, or early years other than the few lines in Homeland and Daughter of the Drow regarding those books respective protagonists. Drizzt was not a follower of Lolth to begin with, so was never subject to the tests, and Lirial was not of a level to recieve most of those tests, and by the time she WAS, she had left Lolth's sphere of influence. Another case of not being subject to them. So for MOST young drow, we really have no way of knowing whether they go through them or not.
There's just not enough lore on the subject to really say it's not applicable. In point of fact, most of the drow in the FR books either followed other deities (Vhaerhuan, Eilistraee, or apparently none in the case of most of the wizards of Sshamath) or were simply not worth her notice. The ones who WERE hers were mainly only mentioned in the WotSQ books, which took place during her Silence!! So for all we know, if things were going on as usual, they might well have been submitted to those tests if of proper level. Just because something has not been explicitly stated in canon for the FR, does not mean it doesn't or can't apply. The writers have simply not focused on those parts of their society, leaving it up for DM's to create in their own games.
Okay, before I get too far into that, I will say that the parts on drow entertainments were the most interesting to me. I had always wondered what sort of recreations a society so decadent and debauched would enjoy, and I gotta say that the ideas presented in there were quite creepy and evil. I also liked the bits on drow bards, which seemed very much in keeping with basic drow ideals. Lute strings as garrotes.... Gee, who'd have thoguht?! LOL!! ;) |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 10:36:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
I take it you don't like a lot of the 3.5 drow stuff then?
Quite the contrary, I like it a lot more than the AD&D stuff, rules-wise. I don't like the way the drow are handled in Greyhawk AD&D and 3RE though, and I kindly object to much of the core stuff being put out in that Dragon and DotUD as well. The latter book was essentially being printed when within Realmspace The War of the Spider Queen and the Lady Penitent events unfolded (preparing the REalms for the deicide of Spellplague and 4E), hence DotUD told us that all old FR / core drow - deity was essentially rubbish and they had only their Spider Goddess to play with. Very disappointing and poor stuff by WotC.
We slightly divert from the topic of the thread though. If people like what is written there and want to use it, so be it.
quote:
As to the stepping on spiders, yeah that didn't make as much sense, but considering how many of them tend to live in a typical drow city, it's not entirely unlikelt that a few might get squished by accident on occassion.
Take out your books on Menzoberranzan, Sschindylryn, and the like, you will find about one incident in 30odd years of FR sourcebook- and novel-writing where a drow incidentally steps on a spider who happens to feast on a corpse. Everywhere else, you don't find more spiders walking about than in your average garden shack. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 29 Sep 2010 10:44:34 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2010 : 17:21:14
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I remember the scene you are referring to quite well- but as I said before, what the Matrons and priestesses don't find out about will not hurt ya! Incidentally, those spiders had been SUMMONED, to kill a goblin street-cleaner slave who did not get out of a Matron's way fast enough. The soldier who stepped on the stray spider was then whipped to death. But considering that virtually EVERY House has spider guardians, mounts, and/or pets out the wha-zoo, you'd be stretching credibility to think they do not also skitter around all over the place due to rampant breeding. And since most spiders lay eggs IN THE HUNDREDS, it's a pretty good bet they'd be all over the place! Just sayin. (And have you taken a good look in a garden lately? I can walk outside my parents house and count at least a half dozen various orb-weavers ALONE! LOL! Not to mention all the little hunting spiders in the grass, widows and cob-web builders in the shed and under the porch, and even a few funnel-web types lurking about. They are much more numerous than most people think.... Food for thought for all the arachnophobes out there.)
I will grant that the LP books were a big disappointment to me. I'd have been perfectly happy to loose Selvetahrm (sp?), Kiaransalee and Ghuanadaur(do drow REALLY need an ooze god?), but killing off Eilistraee and Vaerhaun was a bit much. I do agree that only keeping Lolth was a bad idea. But as you said, that was a prep for 4th ed, so I don't count it. Essentially, I ignore anything that directly or indirectly pertains to that mess. The rest of the material was very good though, so I use it pretty freely. Anything else, I either adapt to my world, or simply go to older edition material. I try to find the good in every ource, and just ignore the rest. It works. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2010 : 14:29:13
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Well, I've just done a half-aboleth template and thought it might come in handy if you want to get water drow for Tel Verinal.
Half-aboleth template
Type: aberration
Int +2 Wis +4 Cha +4
Base land speed 30 ft, swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: Natural armor bonus +4
SA mucus cloud
SQ amphibious
Favored class: Psion
CR: +3
ECL +4 |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2011 : 18:37:17
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Did you get around to making Tel Verinal, Snowblood?
EDIT: Bump.
EDIT2: Bump. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
Edited by - Zireael on 05 Mar 2011 13:11:07 |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 14:38:44
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| I think it got lost in Sage times black hole...he was taking the lead on it.....I sent him some stuff & I think it got run over by life..thats what happens when ya get married & have kids....sigh...and I'm 2/3 of the way through Aryvandaar...its a monster...page 156 & counting sigh!!! |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 16:05:09
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Heh. I was running my own contributions to Snowblood's masterwork, until I got distracted by about three other projects. Maybe it's time to get back to it all?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 16:33:46
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Zireael, I doubt Tel Verinal will ever see the light of day.  Now Aryvaandar, approximately 225 pages?!? That is something I am eagerly anticipating. Do you need a proof-reader, Snowblood? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 05 Mar 2011 17:03:05 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36996 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 17:53:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Zireael, I doubt Tel Verinal will ever see the light of day.
Of course not, it's a drow city. Drow cities never see the light of day.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2011 : 23:10:31
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| Oh Woolley you are such a card.........the joker perhaps? bahahahahaha...and yes I'll get to it later this year...just gotta finish the largest empire outside of Shoulung ever seen and then find by spelunking equipment to get back to Tel Verinal |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4266 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2011 : 05:07:08
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I'm really interested in this one too...and have secretly been holding off of my Ride Project until I see this one.
I was going to work an angle off of it... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 06 Mar 2011 05:08:42 |
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Tel Verinal drow city
