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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Aug 2010 : 09:42:01
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That is a great idea about using iron, gives more chance to the nonmagical side. I have a plane called Hawoek the Blood Rift, which is a combination of Abyss, Acheron, Carceri, Gehenna etc. and is based on the Metal (actually iron) element. It is like a thorn in the magical structure of the planes, it shatters planar borders and invades all realities. Orcs were twisted by this plane, they're anti-fey.
What about blood then, how it affects magic? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2010 : 10:46:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
That is a great idea about using iron, gives more chance to the nonmagical side. I have a plane called Hawoek the Blood Rift, which is a combination of Abyss, Acheron, Carceri, Gehenna etc. and is based on the Metal (actually iron) element. It is like a thorn in the magical structure of the planes, it shatters planar borders and invades all realities. Orcs were twisted by this plane, they're anti-fey.
What about blood then, how it affects magic?
The planes is one part I really feel like changing. Although I do like the idea of ships able to sail through the astral plane where islands of matter and gates mix, sort of a combination of Spelljammer and the planes.
What do you mean with how blood affects magic, are you thinking about as a part of sacrifice, as a source of power or are you talking about birth/family? If you mean the iron in blood, that becomes a part of the "no characters would know anything about the components of blood anyway" excuse, so I would not let the question be asked  . Nut one answer is that the magical power is drawn from the surroundings and reformed within the mind and body of a spelluser. The magic is then a part of the spirit of the caster and can not be hindered by the iron. The same goes for an arrowhead or such, these will be inside and not be a "shield" against magic. But for example iron shavings thrown on a wizard would be a nightmare and a great tactic to use. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2010 : 16:46:13
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The iron in blood, tough the blood use in sacrificial magic is interesting too, e.g. the blood types, A would be for agricultural/famine magic, 0 for more primal rituals ...
Speaking of iron, I only used a specific type to disrupt magic, borrowing the otataral from the Malazan world, which is a sky-iron, and made it an alien isotope not natural to the world. The Imaskari artificers experimented with ''blood oil'' extracted from trees. It was used for their armies (those that remained relatively sane), provided regeneration and resistance to magic (including healing). Later the Raumathari, who are inspired by the Hetites, developed their own specific type of magic called allomancy (system taken from some other novels). |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2010 : 17:10:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, I at least found out that writing to early Belgian Heavy metal like Dark Wizard and Crossfire is nearly impossible. Al Stewart and Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young are better choices.
Oi! No dissing the Belgians here! This said, Belgian heavy metal is tame compared to some of the Scandinavians. Do those work better, then?
Anyway, back to the substance. Interesting reads.
The iron/steel vs. bronze is a nice touch. Just wondering how you treat it mechanically? Like Dark Sun (non-steel weapons / armor do less damage), or, conversely, if you treat bronze as the baseline, do you use the basic stats from the PHB etc. for bronze and give better stats to steel weapons?
Regarding the continents: for your campaigns, do you consider what you have shared with us as "the truth", or is what you have written what the player characters would know of these faraway places? I did like the Endless Wastes as being a ruin-filled wasteland. Personally, I did not particularly like the Endless Waste and the Tuigan being inserted in the Realms - I would prefer an apocalyptic wasteland, like the Chaos Wastes in Warhammer, or the Sea of Dust in Oerth. Or like Dark Sun, I suppose. With a southerly relative narrow band of civilised lands, along the Murghôm-Semphar axis to allow communications with the east. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2010 : 17:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Thauramarth
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, I at least found out that writing to early Belgian Heavy metal like Dark Wizard and Crossfire is nearly impossible. Al Stewart and Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young are better choices.
Oi! No dissing the Belgians here! This said, Belgian heavy metal is tame compared to some of the Scandinavians. Do those work better, then?
Anyway, back to the substance. Interesting reads.
The iron/steel vs. bronze is a nice touch. Just wondering how you treat it mechanically? Like Dark Sun (non-steel weapons / armor do less damage), or, conversely, if you treat bronze as the baseline, do you use the basic stats from the PHB etc. for bronze and give better stats to steel weapons?
No dissing of Belgians; or Dutch or (some) German Heavy metal. Scandinavian metal stopped being interesting around '84 when Merciful Fate, Heavy Load, Overdrive and Glory Bells stopped playing. Come to think of it that goes for more or less the whole genre. Heavy metal should be funny and silly.
The standard rules I have used is that bronze does one less damage, absorbs one less, but also has -2 against breaking. cheap bronze should probably be even worse. The rules for master forged blades, especially dwarven ones, can be used to make better steel weapons. They might be stronger and do more damage, but they cant be enchanted, neither permanent or temporarily.
Its the sort of thing I would adapt a bit to the characters and the campaign in question. The rules should be a bit loose here I think.
quote:
Regarding the continents: for your campaigns, do you consider what you have shared with us as "the truth", or is what you have written what the player characters would know of these faraway places? I did like the Endless Wastes as being a ruin-filled wasteland. Personally, I did not particularly like the Endless Waste and the Tuigan being inserted in the Realms - I would prefer an apocalyptic wasteland, like the Chaos Wastes in Warhammer, or the Sea of Dust in Oerth. Or like Dark Sun, I suppose. With a southerly relative narrow band of civilised lands, along the Murghôm-Semphar axis to allow communications with the east.
The truth? No, I am still just brainstorming here around a heap of ideas that has gathered through the years. Thats why I appreciate any comments or input made. If I ever use it as a whole version of the Realms I think I would just see how it develops with the players. For example, if they were to show no interests in the spirit elements I would downplay it. The same goes for magic, gods and everything. Even the iron element could maybe be changed if they discover that it is really a curse put on the metal that could be lifted; I would probably not go in that direction as it would remove the limitations on magic, but it could be done.
As for the Endless Waste; I actually like many of the locations of the Horde box even if I strongly dislike the real world elements. I see the areas more as a typical sword and sorcery area, with ruins, mysteries, ancient magic and vicious tribes. Hidden valley with forgotten wizards or cloaked in illusions. If I want giant flamingo riding amazons wielding lightning lances and ruling a slave society of tigermen that search for the crystal bird able to travel the astral plane, this is where I would put it.
Murghom and Semphar I really look forward to doing something with. If I manage to keep up the interest for this I will try to go voer all the geography I can think of to and that will be the hard part of this.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2010 : 17:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
The Imaskari artificers experimented with ''blood oil'' extracted from trees.
Could you elaborate on this? Is it the sap, a sort of magical fluid or the "soul" of the tree that is extracted? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2010 : 17:43:48
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Wizards II
Some examples and generalizations.
The magic of Netheril. The ancient wizards of the lands now forming Anauroch were masters of manipulating the outer form of the physical world, changing the shape of themselves and their surroundings. Some created new, magical creatures (that in many ways exist outside of reality as their shape is not a part of the world created by the gods), some created fantastic items and even new and magical landforms. It has been said that cities were build under the waves, among the clouds and on islands that sailed like ships through the sky. But the one thing they were not able to do was change themselves away from the human form permanently, neither were they able to undo the work of the gods and change the true nature of reality. The way to immortality was therefore impossible outside of joining the ranks of the undead. Remembering the catastrophes that destroyed Narfell and Rhaumathar, the wizards searched in desperation after what they saw as a way to gain their freedom from the gods. It is said that they found them in the end and that it led to their downfall. Others say that the gods never destroyed Netheril, instead blaming civil war an struggles among the wizards. And to make it even more confusing there are more than one sage that see little reason to differentiate between the various empires that existed generations ago, happily mixing stories and facts about Solon, Netheril and Narfell. But no matter how the empire fell it is quite possible that knowledge of the magic of inner change is still held by liches or other old wizards that might have cheated death in some way.
Book magic. Among the wizards of the Chondathan empire magic is seen as a way of entering the minds of others and in various ways gain knowledge or power. Wizards are often servants of kings and the powerful, both as guards and as parts of the government. The council of the emperor of Chondath, the merchant-mages of Sembia and the war wizards of Cormyr are all examples of these. It should be mentioned though, that elves usually avoid this form of magic. Book-magic's are cast by way of complicated rituals containing chants, sacrifices and movements, drawing the magic out of the written symbols and together bringing the wizards into a trance enabling him or her to grasp a tiny amount of power that will later be released through the command of the wizard. This method is easily written down and easily taught to others and has therefore become quite popular in the Realms far outside of the borders of Chondath and even beyond the Sea of Fallen Stars, especially among scholarly wizards and sages. A simple scroll might be used to hold a spell and several might be contained within a single book. It has the advantage of letting the wizard access an enormous amount of different spells, but it demands constant access to the spells and all the power used is drawn from the caster himself. It also demands long preparation time to perform the rituals.
Symbols. These might be of be of both a permanent or a temporary nature. Symbol-magic has been popular in the South for as long as man has known, with the Mulhorandians and wizards of the Dragon Coast being the foremost experts in the modern Realms. Elves will never use symbol-magic. Symbolism seems to have originated in various areas at various times and has taken many different forms, the Astrologers in the magic towers of the South, the Netherilian and gnomish jewel symbols, the demon-symbols of Thay and the East, the Diviners of Chondath and Calimshan, the variations are many. The magic drawn in the symbols is usually very powerful, but it is very limited in that it needs a specially prepared area for it to be drawn; usually a circular area of some size and with the open sky above, as the symbols seems to be strengthened by the light of the stars and the combination of Shar and Selune. The need for such an area explains the tendency for wizards live in or near a tower of some sort.
Spirit magic. Among the tethen peoples of the west magic is seen as a part of the tie between the spirits and humanity and the lines between the wizards and priestly magic's are somewhat diffuse. Religion superstition, tradition and magic is mixed together in a way to make it almost impossible for outsiders to fathom where the true power lies. The clearest form of pure magic used in these lands are the illusions and shadow magic's that draw a veil across reality by forming pictures and shapes over the true nature of things. Some of these magic's are very much like those found among the gnomish Imagemakers and the magic of the elves, but it is usually tied to traditions of forming magic through songs or dances. The same ideas about spelldancing can be found among the turmishan, but here the mages doesn’t draw from the power they themselves form through the dance, instead forming magic from the feelings and passions of other dancers performing in the ritual. These mages form something more akin to mystery cults than to the common ideas about wizardly magic's.
Group magic's like this is also common among the witches found in Rashemen, ancient Narfell, the interior of the Vast and certain areas of the Dales. The magic is formed through ecstasy and life-power, drawn from the witches and others in orgiastic rituals and joined with the goodwill of the spirits of the land itself. Divinations, communication with other beings are important among these spellcasters, but there are plenty of stories about the witches using their powers to form storms of pure destruction if their lands are really threatened.
The spirits are another common source of magic. Spirits are as already mentioned a common name for the magic part of all things that usually form an intelligence and being of its own. The strength of the spirit contacted and its use for the wizard will vary from the small amount of non-sentient magic that can be drawn from a flower to the semi-divine spirits of mountains, rivers and species that can give almost unlimited strength and can tell of secret magic's hidden within them throughout the ages. These greater spirits are usually a total of all the other spirits and the path of the wizards seeking knowledge or power is to attempt to contact a greater and greater part of this being. An apprentice might struggle to draw a limited amount of power from the flower, later learn to ask simple question of the field the flower is a part of and later ask the sentient nature of the whole area for a spell. Some times the spirits can be contacted in an attempt to find spells that can be learned, some times to gain information and other times they might give the wizard some of their power; but one thing is constant, there is always a price of some sort. Dealing with the spirits, and even worse, demons and devils, is among the most dangerous forms of magic. It should be mentioned that the spirit-magic form of magic combines aspect of both the divine and the mortal and many cults have formed around the worship of spirits. With some, like the Beast Cults and others, the spirits are great enough to take on a pure divine nature.
The magic of the necromancers, common south of the Sea of Fallen Stars and said to have originated in the ancient empires that once ruled where the Raurin now stretches, can be seen as the opposite of spirit magic. Here there is no sacrifice and no forming of a unity with another beings magic. The spells and rituals found among the necromancers rip the souls and magic from living creatures and puts it at the disposal of the wizard. A necromancer has no need to depend on his own limited strength or the goodwill of spirits. Other spells gives them power over the dead husks of other creatures, giving them a limited ability to create false life. But as there is no power to be drawn from the dead the necromancers will usually have to gather magic needed for these rituals through sacrifices and dealings with demons.
One reason many mages throughout the centuries has sought to assume the form of an undead is an old prophesy from the first ruler of Solon that says that after Man the circle will turn again and all the dead that never rest will start life again as kings. Although some have claimed that the ancient king was just stating his religious opinions on rebirth some have tied it to an old tablet held to be by an early priest of Myrkul that those who bind him to the living world will always be his favoured after the great change.
Runes. The tradition of drawing symbols containing both visible and invisible lines that creates a bond between magic and physical reality is an ancient one. The dwarves practised it extensively before the age of iron and many of those runes are still used as parts of decorations or as holy symbols now containing no magic. Some dwarves still paint runes containing power on their shields or forge blades of bronze that contain hidden runes, but these grow more and more rare. Among humans the simpler runes are quite common in the North, where they have been tied more to spirit and ancestor worship than to the wizardly tradition. Many families or groups know a rune or two that will be passed on to initiates or descendants, but there are usually quite severe reactions (often in the form of curses) to those who teach them to outsiders. Runes are also the most common form of magic learned from spirits or other ancient creatures tied to magic. These might be modified to other forms later, but that is time-consuming and takes quite a toll on the wizard.
In most traditions there are two types of runes. The common runes are usually painted or drawn with the help of ceremonially created equipment and will bind a limited amount of the users power into an item or upon the user. Sometimes they will be carved to make them sturdier. These work more or less as the tethens bird magic and feather symbols, where a combination of spirit-magic, blood and special cuts in the feather come together to form a magic working much like a rune. In most cases these will only work once before having to be tied to the magic again by renewing the rituals of creation.
The other type of runes are the ancient runes that are said to have been used by the gods to form the physical world out of magic and that are said to still weave the world, both in dreams and daily life. These are tied to the true name of all persons or beings and are known by very few.
In general the rune-using North more isolated tethen areas are the ones where magic is viewed with the least suspicion, at least the forms the inhabitants are used to seeing. This might be common runes or the great magic of the great city of Alustriel. Foreign magic's and wizards will be viewed with suspicion. In the areas around the Sea of Fallen Stars where iron has grown more and more common on use by common people as well as warriors, the wizards are viewed with more and more suspicion. In some areas, such as Unther, areas of Amn and among the mysterious humans inhabitant the hidden valleys of the Spine of the World, any user of wizardly magic will be killed on cite or sacrificed when convenient.
Finally there are the tales of the arch wizards that are able to draw from and shape the pure magic from their surroundings by more or less joining their own spirits with the magic, but these powers, which would be immense, are so rare as to be myths. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 00:50:22
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Seems you have leaned heavily toward Runequest, either accidentally or on-purpose, but either way I like it.
I, too, have worked-out that iron affects magic, but I borrowed from the wonderful comp-game Arcanum:Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura. Basically, I have it tied into some RW theories of mine involving magnetic fields and quantum resonance. In other words, anything that disturbs an electromagnetic field will disrupt magic, including something capable of 'grounding' said magic (like a chunk of Iron).
Much of 'Fey magic' has to do with Glamour (deceiving the human brain) and translocation, which can be explained by a natural power that taps into Ley (magnetic) Lines, and opens portals and affects brain-waves. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 09:21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Seems you have leaned heavily toward Runequest, either accidentally or on-purpose, but either way I like it.
That’s only natural, as Drakar och Demoner, the game I started with and still prefer, was a BRP version. I seem to remember Stafford wrote somewhere that it was based on a licensed version of World of Wonder, which I have unfortunately never seen. From that basis it was developed into something that first looked like Runequest 3, in other words Runequest without Glorantha, it was then later given a Scandinavian touch and modified. The end result, Drakar och Demoner expert was in my opinion a better game than Runequest in many ways. Simpler, more easily modified and a better skill system that also included the magic system. Unfortunately the game was ruined in later editions and even given a level system in the D20 craze.
This is part of a loose plan to see how a “anything goes” change of the Realms with that system in the back of my head will work. Just seeing how far I can stretch the structure of the Realms with own idea without breaking it totally apart. And until now I think it works; I haven’t started the geographical work yet, which will be the real test.
In addition to Drakar och Demoner I stole some ideas from 3ed. Runequest also, but I decided to be very careful about reading any more Glorantha or Stafford until I am further along with this project as it is to easy for me to borrow from that world. The ideas of a more active spirit world and magic came from a combination of a post by Ed and reading through the Runequest Cult Compendium, the idea of a looser magic structure as a whole is based on how Ed describes it, but I want it to be somewhat lower in destructive potential. More magic, but less fireball lobbing. Most likely there will be elements from the Known World incorporated also, as Karameikos has been used in Cormyr since I started with the Realms.
quote:
I, too, have worked-out that iron affects magic, but I borrowed from the wonderful comp-game Arcanum:Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura. Basically, I have it tied into some RW theories of mine involving magnetic fields and quantum resonance. In other words, anything that disturbs an electromagnetic field will disrupt magic, including something capable of 'grounding' said magic (like a chunk of Iron).
Ah, Arcanum, the last computer rpg I actually enjoyed; unfortunately I never finished it). I have a feeling that anyone with even a basic knowledge of science (which I certainly don’t have) will grind their teeth at some of the idea I put forward here, but I am going to use the “its magic” excuse for all it is worth. I want some of the flow from the old 150 page fantasy novels of the pre-Brooks era and as any work I do with a detailed home brew usually ends up in a chaos of ideas this is my attempt.
How will you the iron disrupting magic idea into the Realms where items are concerned?
quote:
Much of 'Fey magic' has to do with Glamour (deceiving the human brain) and translocation, which can be explained by a natural power that taps into Ley (magnetic) Lines, and opens portals and affects brain-waves.
Its not to far from what I am thinking, but I also want there to be real questions about what is reality and what is illusion where fey magic is concerned. I want to break down some of the clear boundaries between the two. Some of it is deception in one world and real in another for example. But more often than not the more wondrous effects are pure illusions of course. I am still wondering how this will work in play. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 09:26:14
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I am the last person to say anything bad about Papa John Creach, but a fiddle combined with funk is not the easiest background music either. There is of course always Joe Walsh and Genesis of course. Ed might prefer Pound, but I thing Nursery is a better album.
Here is the first part of the priests.
Priests.
Faerun has three more gods than it has inhabitants. Or so it has been claimed by Zeboaster the Wandering Sage.
Most mortal intelligent beings in the Realms are religious in one form or another. Dragons might be an exception. But what form this takes is very variable. Some, like the tethen peoples have their shadowy myths and mystery cults which are hidden from most outsiders, others, like the humans of the North a personal relationship to certain spirits. In the Vast and Moonsea there are traditions that gives few, but powerful faiths and religions, which are tied to the laws and rulers of society, although not to the degree found in the along the southern coast of the Sea of Fallen Stars where the kings and princes are said to be of divine natures themselves and in need of elaborate ceremonies and sacrifices to hold the land and its inhabitants healthy. The turmishan worship their nature deities through dances that are meant to both honour these and hold the dark deities away from the country. The effect of these are said to be enough to even keep the God-Kings out of their land.
In the ancient lands of Calimshan all peoples have mixed through the ages and the great cities of that land are home to more or less every faith and deity cult found in Faerun and beyond, with no single form of worship dominant. In some rural lands the ancient Calim gods and the worship of the elements are still revered, but this is less and less common. The areas influenced by the old empire of Chondath have a strict temple structure where worship is regulated and organized. Examples are large areas of Cormyr, the Dragon Coast, Sembia and areas of the Dalelands. Here the worshippers dedicate themselves to patron deities and travel to lavish temples (or lesser shrines if nothing else is possible) to get their blessings from their chosen god. Other gods are given reverence when needed, but most people see themselves as serving under their personal protector. Because of the power given to strong temples and the riches given as sacrifice by large followings there is a long history of conflicts between rival faiths in these lands.
In the ancient lands of the Nars and many areas north of the Sea of Fallen Stars it is believed that all of the world (the part they know at least) is dominated by one of the Elemental Lords. The western Lands of Anauroch are the lands of fire, the Sea of Fallen Stars is water, the plains of the East belongs to the wind and the mountains and lands where they themselves live are the dominion of earth. To the north lies the ice, which is a result of demons coupling with the gods a long time ago. A strange consequence of this is the refusal to believe that the land of the Red Wizards is located to the south-east. As fire worshippers their home must in some way be tied to the great heat of the west.
Among most dwarves the priests and their hierarchy have a position that matches that of the ruler and are an important part of the holdings structure. This system has been weakened in the last centuries and among the dwarves of the lowlands and human settlements religion is looser and more based on personal beliefs. These are usually served by wandering mystics and priests that wander from community to community.
The elves have a complicated religion that is mostly mysterious to outsiders, honouring a combination of Faerunian nature spirits and their old otherworldly gods to give the faith a dual nature much like themselves. Usually all elves have a daily relationship with the spirits, but the gods themselves are higher beings that are only contacted through large ceremonies involving the whole communities and priests that usually appear from Evermeet or other non-Faerunian lands.
Others, human and otherwise, worship deities bearing the forms of animals, such as the horse, the lion or the bear. In the Shaar it is even believed that the world and the whole universe is part of a great cosmic horse. Sometimes the animals are seen as relatives, other times they are symbols and ideals for the believers. Among many of the organized priesthoods it is claimed that the worship of animals, places and forefathers are really primitive faiths that refuses to honour the true deities, but that puts little damper on the vigorousness of the believers and the claim has cost more than one priest his life. Any ideas that there are any clear limits between deities, spirits and mighty beings from other worlds are difficult to prove and in most cases is of no consequence for the believers. Feeling safer and getting help in their lives is what is important and what term the sages prefer for the benefactor is irrelevant. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 20:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Its not to far from what I am thinking, but I also want there to be real questions about what is reality and what is illusion where fey magic is concerned. I want to break down some of the clear boundaries between the two. Some of it is deception in one world and real in another for example. But more often than not the more wondrous effects are pure illusions of course. I am still wondering how this will work in play.
The explanation is simple, actually.
There is no difference - the way magic works, from D&D to the Thomas Covenant novels to the silly Freddy Kruger movies; if you believe it, it is real. Simply put, we create our reality around us. The more folks that believe in a certain thing, the more 'substantial' that thing becomes. This also ties into the deities - they can form spontaneously be belief (mythology and dogma), or be ascended mortals who have achieved that power through the hero-worship of the masses.
This goes back to some stuff I said in another thread, about super-powerful (magically) beings being able to 'see' magic, like the '1's and '0's in The Matrix movies (that only Neo saw). Elminster has this ability - Ed has presented him thusly in several novels. He merely reaches into 'the pattern' and adjusts reality as he wants - that's REAL magic.
The human mind (and most other mortal races) can't handle 'the truth' about reality - it is just a mental consensus - so they need abstract 'patterns' to memorize, or intricate Runes to draw, or dozens of other methods to 'tap into' the Weave/magic and cause extraordinary effects.
When a Jedi says "These aren't the droids you are looking for", he has adjusted the perceptions of the Stormtrooper so that the statement becomes TRUE in his own personal reality. The actual truth of the statement does not matter, since the desired effect is the same. Psionicists directly manipulate reality on a very small scale, as do fey creatures. Deities, Archfiends, etc... can affect greater areas - entire regions of Planes - and mold them into what they perceive. The fact is that nothing is real in my model - its all energy and perception - the greater the mind behind the 'reality twisting' (magic), the more it over-rides other folks (mortals) perceptions.
For instance, in Prince of Lies, Oghma convinced Mystra to see the world through the eyes of the other gods, and that is when she realized every being perceives the world differently, and that more powerful beings can 'impress' their version on lesser beings.
So reality becomes a mere mental state, and manipulating it becomes an act of will. Weather by magical disciplines, psionics, or Uber-science, it all works out to the same thing - manipulating the basic building blocks of the universe (Primal Energy) into doing what you want. All of these 'things' are held in-place by magnetic Fields, which is why the presence of large amounts of Quartz Crystal, Limestone, or even a piece of lodestone can throw-off the fields and make reality act erratically. By manipulating the fields directly, you can achieve anything, and even travel through time and space.
Quite a bit of this goes beyond gaming and enters the realm of psuedo-science - the primal energy idea I stole from the excellent Well of Souls novels by Jack L. Chalker, and the idea of sending stuff through time and space by adjusting local magnetic fields I got from an old (70's) article in Omni magazine. It was an article based on future plans of NASA at that time, NOT a work of Sci-Fi fiction.
very advanced stuff, but in-principle it explains quite a lot, and like I said, this is not just how I imagine my D&D universe working, but the real one as well.
Getting back to the topic/question; You can say that Fey and other select beings have 'the Sight' - a natural ability to see the true pattern behind the reality we accept, and they are able to tap into it, and make minor (localized) adjustments. Beings of incredible power (like gods) have True sight, and are much more capable of making those kinds of adjustments, and on a much grander scale.
I haven't been able to incorporate this line of reasoning - the use of Iron to foil 'magic' - into my D&D sessions as of yet, except for encounters with Fey, but I am working on a customized magic system that hopefully will work out. To do it right, one would have to take into account the mass of iron (and other base metals) on a character, assign it a modifier, and then have '% to Hit' affected by it, with further modifiers for magical skill of the caster (both in power and training - there really needs to be two completely separate stats/levels for the system to work, especially if you want to have 'specialist mages').
Notice that I am a proponent of the 'Chance to hit' with spells that 4e has adopted - I always felt the automatic 'hits' of certain spells a bit artificial. In any good fantasy yarn, we see folks ducking powerful spells, so I feel a mage must have damn good aim as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Aug 2010 02:04:10 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 20:35:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Could you elaborate on this? Is it the sap, a sort of magical fluid or the "soul" of the tree that is extracted?
In short. It is a thick, viscous antimagic fluid that is alchemically extracted from the roots of the bloodwood tree. When the bloodwood blade is oiled the ferrous ingredients are absorbed, replacing the damaged wood. Such a blade is capable of cutting though magical fields. Just a tase of blood-oil incites lust, rage and battle madness. Small exposure over the years makes it integrate into the hemoglobin, developing magical resistance and regenerative abilities. There is a great risk of insanity, especially for the magically gifted. It is also collected in a form of red powder, scrapped from the rock of ancient, petrified bloodwood trees.
In my campaign I had two different origin myths. First was during the alliance with the fey creator race, they had artificially grown highly adaptable organic colossi. They were used for exploration into alien realities. One such army returned ''contaminated'' with the strange iron. The only way to purify them was to bury the colossi under specifically designed trees, their roots slowly dissolving the infected bark layers, like drawing minerals from the soil. The other myth was that the Imaskari tried to ''free'' their ancestors, the Azlanti titans, ripped them from the Carcerian daemoncysts of the Blood Rift. They only managed to bring them back trapped inside red colossal shells. The colossi were purified by the trees in husk-like forms of the stone colossi. Intentionally or not the beings within died drained of life essences.
Later when Raumathari discovered allomancy they ''burned'' the sky-iron for their war against Mulhorand (this is a historical analogue of the battle of Kadesh in my Realms). Raumathar fell in the Great Conflagration to the Black Ash Giants (historical analogue of the Urnfield culture).
Later during the campaign another red colossus appeared in the sky above Thay (looked like a comet). A Raumvari allomancer manipulated its magnetic fields to disperse tiny invisible particles of this cosmic dust, causing political chaos, briely weakening the Red Wizards, empowering the Scarlet Brotherhood. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 22:37:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Its not to far from what I am thinking, but I also want there to be real questions about what is reality and what is illusion where fey magic is concerned. I want to break down some of the clear boundaries between the two. Some of it is deception in one world and real in another for example. But more often than not the more wondrous effects are pure illusions of course. I am still wondering how this will work in play.
The explanation is simple, actually.
There is no difference - the way magic works, from D&D to the Thomas Covenant novels to the silly Freddy Kruger movies; if you believe it, it is real. Simply put, we create our reality around us. The more folks that believe in a certain thing, the more 'substantial that thing becomes. This also ties into the deities - they can form spontaneously be belief (mythology and dogma), or be ascended mortals who have achieved that power through the hero-worship of the masses.
This goes back to some stuff I said in another thread, about super-powerful (magically) beings being able to 'see' magic, like the '1's and '0's in The Matrix movies (that only Neo saw). Elminster has this ability - Ed has presented him thusly in several novels. He merely reaches into 'the pattern' and adjusts reality as he wants - that's REAL magic.
The human mind (and most other mortal races) can't handle 'the truth' about reality - it is just a mental consensus - so they need abstract 'patterns' to memorize, or intricate Runes to draw, or dozens of other methods to 'tap into' the Weave/magic and cause extraordinary effects.
When a Jedi says "These aren't the droids you are looking for", he has adjusted the perceptions of the Stormtrooper so that the statement becomes TRUE in his own personal reality. The actual truth of the statement does not matter, since the desired effect is the same. Psionicists directly manipulate reality on a very small scale, as do fey creatures. Deities, Archfiends, etc... can affect greater areas - entire regions of Planes - and mold them into what they perceive. The fact is that nothing is real in my model - its all energy and perception - the greater the mind behind the 'reality twisting' (magic), the more it over-rides other folks (mortals) perceptions.
For instance, in Prince of Lies, Oghma convinced Mystra to see the world through the eyes of the other gods, and that is when she realized every being perceives the world differently, and that more powerful beings can 'impress' their version on lesser beings.
So reality becomes a mere mental state, and manipulating it becomes an act of will. Weather by magical disciplines, psionics, or Uber-science, it all works out to the same thing - manipulating the basic building blocks of the universe (Primal Energy) into doing what you want. All of these 'things' are held in-place by magnetic Fields, which is why the presence of large amounts of Quartz Crystal, Limestone, or even a piece of lodestone can throw-off the fields and make reality act erratically. By manipulating the fields directly, you can achieve anything, and even travel through time and space.
Quite a bit of this goes beyond gaming and enters the realm of psuedo-science - the primal energy idea I stole from the excellent Well of Souls novels by Jack L. Chalker, and the idea of sending stuff through time and space by adjusting local magnetic fields I got from an old (70's) article in Omni magazine. It was an article based on future plans of NASA at that time, NOT a work of Sci-Fi fiction.
very advanced stuff, but in-principle it explains quite a lot, and like I said, this is not just how I imagine my D&D universe working, but the real one as well.
Getting back to the topic/question; You can say that Fey and other select beings have 'the Sight' - a natural ability to see the true pattern behind the reality we accept, and they are able to tap into it, and make minor (localized) adjustments. Beings of incredible power (like gods) have True sight, and are much more capable of making those kinds of adjustments, and on a much grander scale.
I haven't been able to incorporate this line of reasoning - the use of Iron to foil 'magic' - into my D&D sessions as of yet, except for encounters with Fey, but I am working on a customized magic system that hopefully will work out. To do it right, one would have to take into account the mass of iron (and other base metals) on a character, assign it a modifier, and then have '% to Hit' affected by it, with further modifiers for magical skill of the caster (both in power and training - there really needs to be two completely separate stats/levels for the system to work, especially if you want to have 'specialist mages').
Notice that I am a proponent of the 'Chance to hit' with spells that 4e has adopted - I always felt the automatic 'hits' of certain spells a bit artificial. In any good fantasy yarn, we see folks ducking powerful spells, so I feel a mage must have damn good aim as well.
In such a system I see the gods as beings that have gained a sentience through the magic and learned to form the ideas of reality into true reality and matter. Not the illusion of matter or changing of the same, but the creation based purely upon the idea and the wish. In a way any being can become a deity if he or she is able to transcend its own reality and create out of its own core of magic. This will of course be hindered by the fact that the different realities mix and flows together; a mortal going into this tapestry risks undoing the ideas of others. An example would be the gods stopping Netheril. Elminster has reached the level (of conscience, not ability) where he can see this and still know enough to see his own limits.
Great, now I am starting to confuse even myself here.
As for the fey, I don’t see them as really having the sight in my version; that is more a human ability to see the reality of faeries, who themselves can see multiple realities and thereby possible exist in several. The problem is sometimes to see the world in the more one dimensional view of others, making them in many ways as limited as others, just in another way. Even Myth Drannor I see as a city that existed in several dimensions at once and was destroyed in all (or maybe one is left?) at the same time. Am I making any sense here? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 22:39:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Could you elaborate on this? Is it the sap, a sort of magical fluid or the "soul" of the tree that is extracted?
In short. It is a thick, viscous antimagic fluid that is alchemically extracted from the roots of the bloodwood tree. When the bloodwood blade is oiled the ferrous ingredients are absorbed, replacing the damaged wood. Such a blade is capable of cutting though magical fields. Just a tase of blood-oil incites lust, rage and battle madness. Small exposure over the years makes it integrate into the hemoglobin, developing magical resistance and regenerative abilities. There is a great risk of insanity, especially for the magically gifted. It is also collected in a form of red powder, scrapped from the rock of ancient, petrified bloodwood trees.
In my campaign I had two different origin myths. First was during the alliance with the fey creator race, they had artificially grown highly adaptable organic colossi. They were used for exploration into alien realities. One such army returned ''contaminated'' with the strange iron. The only way to purify them was to bury the colossi under specifically designed trees, their roots slowly dissolving the infected bark layers, like drawing minerals from the soil. The other myth was that the Imaskari tried to ''free'' their ancestors, the Azlanti titans, ripped them from the Carcerian daemoncysts of the Blood Rift. They only managed to bring them back trapped inside red colossal shells. The colossi were purified by the trees in husk-like forms of the stone colossi. Intentionally or not the beings within died drained of life essences.
Later when Raumathari discovered allomancy they ''burned'' the sky-iron for their war against Mulhorand (this is a historical analogue of the battle of Kadesh in my Realms). Raumathar fell in the Great Conflagration to the Black Ash Giants (historical analogue of the Urnfield culture).
Later during the campaign another red colossus appeared in the sky above Thay (looked like a comet). A Raumvari allomancer manipulated its magnetic fields to disperse tiny invisible particles of this cosmic dust, causing political chaos, briely weakening the Red Wizards, empowering the Scarlet Brotherhood.
Oh I like this. I can see this knowledge being used by assassin brotherhoods of the Vast and Thay when working against wizards or as a part of plots by agents at foreign courts. I may well steal some of this for my own game sometime.
I wonder what would happen if another red colossus appeared above the Realms now. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2010 : 22:41:24
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Priests part II
But in a world so strongly tied to magic and mystical powers it comes as no surprise that magic is an important part of religion. From the earliest days it has been obvious that a beings usefulness as a subject of worship is tied to the demonstrations of power and helpfulness it can show. In other words to how it can work magic.
The differences between spiritual magic and wizardly magic is somewhat blurred and might not exist. Spirits may, as already mentioned, give worshippers or others bearing gifts secrets of magic that they themselves have learned or observed through the ages. This has lead to worship of beings who seems to have lesser ties to the living magic, as shown in the cults dedicated to dragons, demons and other creatures of great power. They are able to give their worshippers access to great wizardly magic's and are able to physically help the cult if they feel like it, but lack the ability to create matter or give abilities that become a part of the worshippers true nature.
But there is also another type of magic that can be learned, in one way more powerful and in other ways less variable. By sacrificing a small amount of his or her own spirit a worshipper might get access to some of a higher beings true magic, the knowledge permanently sewn into the mind and spirit and now a part of their being. The magic can not be lost (although it can be taken away by the giver as punishment, along with a great part of the spirit of the offender) and can never be taught to others without prayers. The spiritual magic demands less study or preparations each day and will often demand less of the casters spirit, but the price is to declare service to the giver of the magic. These servants might be called priests, mystics or even just servants. In most cases it is demanded that the True Name is given to the god. Some deities demand constant vigilance (although they are usually the most likely to respond to a priests attempts at contact also), others might just demand a single sacrifice a year or that the priest will be readily available if needed.
How the devotion to the deity or spirit(usually called a god) is shown and what is needed to please it varies from race to race and culture to culture, in many ways it seems like these regulations are often formed by the ideas and ideology of the worshippers themselves. The spirits and deities often have great power, but are usually a bit limited where variation or flexibility is concerned, and although the original background of the faith usually comes directly from that being, the later ceremony does not. In most cases though, gods are happy to see these things be developed by the believers and the clergy, as it both appeals to their vanity and strengthens the reverence given. With time the faith itself often shapes the face of the god and how it will react. This gives for a huge amount of variations in the faith of some greater gods and spirits that has varied types of worshippers spread out over large areas. They might show a very beneficial face in one area and be seen as fearsome destroyers in another.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2010 : 10:54:59
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Hawkwind was a bad idea, as was early Alice Cooper. Something more structured is needed. Muddy Waters and Beatles, that's it. Copperheads only album is a nice ending to this.
I have a feeling I am starting to repeat myself here, so its probably a good thing that I am nearly finished with the classes.
Druids.
Druids are seen by unknowing city-dwellers as being rural, primitive tree-worshippers that pray to ancient and nearly forgotten spirits. A sort of backwoods cleric left over from an earlier age. In reality the druids belong to an ancient brotherhood that have ties that reaches not only across Faerun, but beyond the dimensions themselves.
The exact background of the druids is unknown, but the oldest known traditions are found in the areas of the Great Dale and neighbouring areas, which make it quite likely that they might have existed since the days of Narfell. Some claim that they are not of Faerunian origin at all but if so this is of little relevance any more. Today the druids are still common in the Great Dale area and are know to have circles straight across Faerun, with the Moonshae being their westernmost area of influence. They are relatively rare north of the Western Heartlands and further south, with the exception of the lands of the Vilhon Reach which have maybe the strongest Druidic present in the Realms. The druids of the Vilhon are quite different from the northern groups though and of a far more secretive and aggressive nature.
The druids may be involved in the religion of several deities, but they are certainly not a part of the common clergy of these religions and usually have very little to do with the lay worshippers of the gods. Other groupings in the same areas such as the Harpers have a somewhat ambiguous relationship with the druids, even though they often revere the same deities and work against the same opponents.
The druids worship a great variety of deities and spirits, all of them with ties to nature. Chaunthea is the common choice in the Dales, the Moonsea (a rather wild version here though) areas of eastern Cormyr and other areas with strong agricultural traditions. The Earth Mother is traditionally the deity of choice in the Moonshae and Jandath among the Turmishan druids. Bhalla and Phakruh are common choices among the wilder druids of the north-east, and the solidarity druids of northern Cormyr and the Western Heartlands worship the Tethen Silvanus in various forms. The aggressive druids of Chondath and much of the Vilhon are extremely secretive and which gods they really worship is a mystery to anyone outside of the inner cult. They are involved in local rituals to both Chaunthea and Jandath but are also said to worship far darker deities.
From what little has been learned by the scribes of Hillsfar and from the texts found in the vaults of Candlekeep it seems that the druids holds to a cyclic world view of life and death being constant and renewing. Rituals and ceremonies must also be repeated and stories told again and again to let the world benefit from their past and future truths and hidden meanings. Writing is shunned as it is a breach with the tradition of the repeating flow, instead trying to make the words permanent and dead. The gods are the highest beings that exist as parts of the spirit of Faerun and are constantly working to bind the structure of the world together with the roots of plants and the rotting corpses of the dead. That’s the main object of the earthly form, to strengthen the spirits in life and the earth itself in death. And this strengthening is the only thing that keeps the world together and in a form of balance.
In the druids faith the world is in constant danger of being ripped apart by the the cosmic and otherworldly powers that flows and ebbs with the universe. This can be seen in the numerous rifts in reality that can be found in Faerun and the threats that often come through them. These might be short-time openings or permanent gates, but all lead to dimensions and worlds far away from this one and thereby weakens the individual bonds that holds the worlds together. Usually they are harmless or even beneficial and will not be a problem if well tended and ritually held together by the druids and their rituals, but some are gates to hostile worlds or to the awareness of powers of chaos or order which both wish to undo the circle. These must be closed or hindered as much as possible and by any means needed. There are horror tales of the druids performing mass sacrifices to placate the beings on the other side long enough to close the gates, but the truth of these are uncertain.
The druids seem to have mapped out the strength of Faerun within their faith and gather near areas where they now the physical reality to be weakest, here they keep constant vigilance and perform monthly and seasonal rites to keep the rifts from appearing or widening. The more druids in an area the bigger the threat is likely to be.
The druids of the Dales seem to keep an eye on both the elven gates and the advance of humanity in addition to working against the threats from other dimensions that have a tendency to crop up here. The assassination of several leading druids recently nearly led to a catastrophe large enough for the archmage Elminster to relocate himself to the Dales; the wizard is said to long ago have had Druidic training and has, although not a member of the order, decided to do what he can to guard the gates of the Dales.
The Western Heartlands seems to be safer where new gates and rifts are concerned, but there are numerous holes in reality and minor gates in these lands and the druids wander through the wilderness along constantly repeated routs to perform the needed rituals. In these areas they usually work closely with the rangers which follow many of the same paths, guarding and clearing the paths.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 14:06:38
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Thieves and Rogues.
The term thief here refers to those who belong to the brotherhoods and guilds found within many of the larger settlements of the Realms. There are plenty of brigands, killers, opportunists and minor robbers to be found in all areas of the Realms, but these are not specialized and might belong to any occupation or walk of life. There are also plenty of religious cults and groups that participate in various illegal activities, but these are also ignored here.
Thievery or robbery is among the oldest and most traditional occupations in Faerun and almost every other world, the forms are numerous and sometimes the title is used on anything from freeswords to nobles and tax collectors. But in the larger settlements of Faerun, with their gatherings of riches, numerous hiding places and the relative anonymity given to its inhabitants, there has grown forth various specialists and predators. What name they might carry, thieves, robbers, cut-purses, pickpockets, they all have one thing in common, they pray on the riches of others.
Generally these persons, the common thief, can be found everywhere and there is little reason to talk much about them. Their personalities, habits and methods are to numerous and varied to detail here. Far more interesting are the organizations build around these individuals, often combining them with the occupations of other members of the underside of the city’s; the minor assassins, the fences, the hookers and the swindlers. All of these form a interwoven society outside the common one. Sometimes they are hunted by eager city watchmen and merchant employed mercenaries, other times they are almost a part of the same government. In some cases they are even the real rulers of whole city’s and states.
The so-called thieves guild is a type of organization thought to have its origin in the Chondathan empire and most examples of such organizations are today found in areas where the empire had a strong influence, mostly along the Western coast of the Sea of Fallen Stars. In addition government allied guilds of this type are common in the city states of the Lake of Steam. The guilds are structured with a strong hierarchy and ancient traditions that govern the advancement of members. The guilds of the Dragon Coast are the best examples found today. In most cases the guilds of the Dragon Coast does not include professional or religious assassins (these form their own cults or guilds) something that is common in the South-West. There are also long traditions for excluding magic users and non-humans, as they are seen as both to unpredictable and to powerful. Priests are also usually avoided when possible, as their loyalty is somewhat dubious. One of the best examples of this sort of group is the Night Masks of Westgate ,an organization that embraces more or less every member of that city’s underworld. Even the information gathering Cloak society of the city’s pay dues to the Masks, and minor groups in the neighbouring areas forced to pay dues. Attempts at spreading their influence northwards to Marsember has met with catastrophe though, as their agents were killed of in a most brutal way by the local agents of the Veiled Society. These actions seem to be ordered by the mysterious new leader of the guild, the one called Faceless, who has also (to the aggravation of many senior members) included an increasing number of assassins.
The Sword Coast has traditionally been dominated by the largest known pure criminal network found in Faerun, namely the Shadow Thieves of Amn. This huge organization is to large to be called a guild and does not include the hierarchy found in the Dragon coast area. The various members, which includes not just thieves and their ilk, but also killers, assassins, swindlers, shady wizards and an extensive network of agents that infiltrate various governments and organizations, are all under the rule of a hidden leadership that might at all times call on the members services. In many ways the Shadow thieves seems to be developing towards the role held by the dreaded Zentharim of the north, with thieves and infiltrators being used to sabotage and terrorize any rivals or threats in an attempt to control both the trade and politics of the region.
It is unclear how much control the Shadow Thieves have over the assassins guilds of the South, which include the fanatical killers of the Bhaalites, the blood drenched schools of hired killers found in Calimshan and the stalking servants of the Rider wandering the wilds. The riders servants, being individualistic mystics of the tethen god usually works on their own and are the most unpredictable of the three. The Bhaalites are to devoted to their god and the various schools to powerful to control completely, so it is most likely that any relationship to the Shadow Thieves is a loose alliance before membership. When killers outside of the guild is needed members of the schools are preferred, whether it is the poisoners of Riatavin, the weapon masters of the Amnish city’s, the unarmed killers educated in Calimshan or the invisible masters of the Deepwash area. In some cases even the spell-trained assassins of Thay and the Vast has been encountered in the Shadow Thieves service.
The rogues of the East are rarely seen on west of the Sea of Fallen Stars though, as the family led networks of the Alamber Sea city’s, the harbor agents of the princes of the Pirate Islands and the robber bands of the Ancient Empires have more than enough with holding on to the power they have accumulate in their areas. The exception are the spell-using thieves and killers of the Vast, who with brands and pride said to date back to the ancient Rhaumathar, regularly hire out to foreigners to bring riches to their masters. They usually function in various roles and can be hired for anything from assassination to burglary. In general the rogues found in the east follow different traditions that have more in common with cults or sects than the guilds found further west. And the often tyrannical rulers of these lands have led more than one guild into being more a group of coup planning idealists, opportunists and renegades than true thieves. In general the life of the rogue is both more dangerous and more rewarding in these lands, with both death and a throne being possible rewards.
The Heartlands and the Sea of Fallen Stars are as said the lands of the guilds. In other areas the large organizations and guilds are less common. The Ancient Empires hunt down any thieves they can find within their city’s using any magic they have at their disposal, making the wilderness robber the norm here. The thieves of Turmish are of a nature to strange to detail here. In far away Waterdeep the Shadow Thieves held control for a time, but got chased out of the city not long ago, and in the rest of the North individual thieves and highway robbers are the norm. Sembia has minor groups ,as have the various city’s of the Moonsea but these, like many others in the Western Heartlands, are these days more and more being infiltrated by agents of the Zentharim.
Among the non-humans these types of lawbreakers are uncommon. Few elves are thieves or robbers and those that are are outcasts. The hin and gnomes are either individual adventurers or join other groups for protection. There are stories of ancient thieves guilds and brotherhoods among the dwarves, but these seem to be splintered these days. There are some small bands and cults that dedicate themselves to a dark deity of greed and legends speak of a grand temple in the north, but most people dismiss these as rumours.
Other races, such as the beholders, dopplegangers, nagpa and such often control parts of the underworld or partake in crimes, but their goals are seldom pure greed after wealth. They are easier compared to predators and power mongers that in various ways seek to gain influence over the “lesser races”. There are always specialists and individual monsters such as the Kenku and various were-creatures that are able to get employment or alliances with guilds, but these are not common enough to be generalized here.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 17:01:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
As for the fey, I don’t see them as really having the sight in my version; that is more a human ability to see the reality of faeries, who themselves can see multiple realities and thereby possible exist in several. The problem is sometimes to see the world in the more one dimensional view of others, making them in many ways as limited as others, just in another way. Even Myth Drannor I see as a city that existed in several dimensions at once and was destroyed in all (or maybe one is left?) at the same time. Am I making any sense here?
Well, that is pretty much the way I see it as well. 'The Sight' is a purely human term - magical races wouldn't differentiate between the 'real world' and the 'mystical' one that is the true reality - its just different layers of the same thing. If anything, creatures like Fey would feel a bit sorry for humans and others for their 'handicap'. It is not that they have an extraordinary ability; it is that humans have severe deficit in this area, one they can learn to overcome by practicing 'strange magical traditions' (which naturally magical beings don't need).
It is like a person who is near-sighted, or has color-blindness; humans fail too see so much around them because of their limitations. The fact is, there is really no physical 'boundaries' between planes - those limits are artificially imposed by mortal preconceptions. beings like fey, who can see into several worlds, can merely walk between them.
I also have it where anyone who can practice magic has a bit of non-human blood somewhere in their past, but that is just a personal preference.
BTW, sorry for the side-chatter in your most-excellent thread; I really enjoy these sort of esoteric 'deeper understanding' type of conversations as they apply to our games. I'll stop of you wish. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 17:29:18
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Don't stop. The discussions are the most fun part of doing this at all. But I must admit that I am running on empty here now, so we will have to see if I manage to continue with this after the bards and the timelines. But hopefully I will be able to collect myself enough to continue after a little break.
I agree with you, but there is one important difference and that is in the non-human blood part. Doing that would cut humans of from the magic in a way; I would include "faerie-blood" if I were running a world where the ancient magical races were in conflict with humans or one based on myths and legends akin to those on Earth, but I don't think I would use it in the Realms.
An idea that just hit me. There is one fun little idea I could possibly see working. The elves and some other magical races can see much further into reality, but at a cost. They have very little imagination as most things are clear without guessing or dreaming. The handicap of humans is what is giving them the ability to develop and by using the limitations correctly they might well learn to see across multiple realities and dimensions, whereas elves can never understand the single vision. The same with time, humans with their limits can create time, even if it didn't exist, to give them a direction in their short lives. Elves being both long lived and created by power of magic and eternity can never really grasp this limit of existence and therefore not use it either. The dwarves are heading in the opposite direction, they did earlier have the same strong imagination of humans and others, but their religious reliance upon iron and steel has started to limit them severely; the same can be made into an issue with some of the human cultures. I would say the same thing for deities and spirits; they are very naive when something goes to far beyond their portfolio and interest.
Elves might be masters at imitating, both with art and with magic, but they might lack the ability to modify and be truly original, especially at short notice. Therefore humans are the most developed in for example magic, they have the ability to get new ideas. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2010 : 19:02:05
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Jorkens...I like that idea about humanity's "Handicap" actually being the reason they are functioning better in an evolving world than other races. The "fire" in them is that they are driven to create and do in the short amount of time that they have...so much so that with the addition of books, magic and etc. they are overcoming older and "wiser" races because they invent so quickly in their short lives.
I like it... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 01:42:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
<chop>
There is no difference - the way magic works, from D&D to the Thomas Covenant novels to the silly Freddy Kruger movies; if you believe it, it is real. Simply put, we create our reality around us. The more folks that believe in a certain thing, the more 'substantial' that thing becomes. This also ties into the deities - they can form spontaneously be belief (mythology and dogma), or be ascended mortals who have achieved that power through the hero-worship of the masses.
This goes back to some stuff I said in another thread, about super-powerful (magically) beings being able to 'see' magic, like the '1's and '0's in The Matrix movies (that only Neo saw). Elminster has this ability - Ed has presented him thusly in several novels. He merely reaches into 'the pattern' and adjusts reality as he wants - that's REAL magic.
D'you think this has something to do with Ed's current Elminster story arc (Elminster Must Die and its sequels)? It makes one wonder if Elminster is the key to a whole lot more than just a massive secret of Cormyr... but this scroll is about un-canon Realmswork, and I digress into canon...  (and MT, if you want to answer this question, either start a new scroll or PM me; my reply is derailing Jorkens' scroll enough as it is, for which I apologize)
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The human mind (and most other mortal races) can't handle 'the truth' about reality - it is just a mental consensus - so they need abstract 'patterns' to memorize, or intricate Runes to draw, or dozens of other methods to 'tap into' the Weave/magic and cause extraordinary effects.
When a Jedi says "These aren't the droids you are looking for", he has adjusted the perceptions of the Stormtrooper so that the statement becomes TRUE in his own personal reality. The actual truth of the statement does not matter, since the desired effect is the same. Psionicists directly manipulate reality on a very small scale, as do fey creatures. Deities, Archfiends, etc... can affect greater areas - entire regions of Planes - and mold them into what they perceive. The fact is that nothing is real in my model - its all energy and perception - the greater the mind behind the 'reality twisting' (magic), the more it over-rides other folks (mortals) perceptions.
For instance, in Prince of Lies, Oghma convinced Mystra to see the world through the eyes of the other gods, and that is when she realized every being perceives the world differently, and that more powerful beings can 'impress' their version on lesser beings.
So reality becomes a mere mental state, and manipulating it becomes an act of will. Weather by magical disciplines, psionics, or Uber-science, it all works out to the same thing - manipulating the basic building blocks of the universe (Primal Energy) into doing what you want. All of these 'things' are held in-place by magnetic Fields, which is why the presence of large amounts of Quartz Crystal, Limestone, or even a piece of lodestone can throw-off the fields and make reality act erratically. By manipulating the fields directly, you can achieve anything, and even travel through time and space.
Quite a bit of this goes beyond gaming and enters the realm of psuedo-science - the primal energy idea I stole from the excellent Well of Souls novels by Jack L. Chalker, and the idea of sending stuff through time and space by adjusting local magnetic fields I got from an old (70's) article in Omni magazine. It was an article based on future plans of NASA at that time, NOT a work of Sci-Fi fiction.
very advanced stuff, but in-principle it explains quite a lot, and like I said, this is not just how I imagine my D&D universe working, but the real one as well.
I agree with, and am very interested in, this stuff; there was something in an article in Discover magazine a while back that was picked up by a TV series or movie (can't remember anything more than that) about how our thoughts can cause quantum probabilities to settle into one or the other discrete state and thereby influence how reality takes shape. Fascinating stuff; if I can find a link, I'll update my post.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Getting back to the topic/question; You can say that Fey and other select beings have 'the Sight' - a natural ability to see the true pattern behind the reality we accept, and they are able to tap into it, and make minor (localized) adjustments. Beings of incredible power (like gods) have True sight, and are much more capable of making those kinds of adjustments, and on a much grander scale.<chop>
I really like this idea... real magic should go beyond spells, into the kinds of things Midnight was doing during the later part of the Avatar trilogy before her ascension, and the kinds of things you've cited Elminster as being capable of. Direct manipulation of the Weave without spell formulae is real arcane power, and that almost makes me wonder if Sorcerer should be a 15-level prestige class in the tradition of the Bard, Paladin, and Ranger from Unearthed Arcana 3.5. Or maybe the Warlock covers that area adequately... I've never done anything with the 3.5 Warlock class, so maybe it covers what I'm talking about here.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Notice that I am a proponent of the 'Chance to hit' with spells that 4e has adopted - I always felt the automatic 'hits' of certain spells a bit artificial. In any good fantasy yarn, we see folks ducking powerful spells, so I feel a mage must have damn good aim as well.
I concur on the 4E "chance to hit" with spells. I also like 4E's system of opposed attack and defense rolls. No comment on the changes to spells and classes beyond this; I'm staying positive. That being said, for use with 3.x, I would give sorcerers and wizards an AAB (arcane attack bonus) equal to their combined class levels (the same as a fighter or similar class in physical combat) and bards should have an AAB equal to their BAB, as they do twice as many things half as well as most other classes. (IMHO) 
Okay, I'll shut up and let Jorkens have his scroll back now. That being said, Jorkens, if you have any comments on my comments, I'm always interested in hearing them. Mostly, tho, I want to see more of your "ridiculously un-canon Realmswork"(TM)... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 26 Aug 2010 01:46:03 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 10:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
D'you think this has something to do with Ed's current Elminster story arc (Elminster Must Die and its sequels)? It makes one wonder if Elminster is the key to a whole lot more than just a massive secret of Cormyr... but this scroll is about un-canon Realmswork, and I digress into canon... (and MT, if you want to answer this question, either start a new scroll or PM me; my reply is derailing Jorkens' scroll enough as it is, for which I apologize)
And how does one make anything uncanon except by talking about canon? This thread should be as much about derailment within the theme as it should be a place for me to post ramblings, so go on doing it.
Cormyr is the thing I really want to do and something of a carrot to keep my working on the geographical part. I want to see how much of Karameikos I can sneak into it without destroying it completely.
quote:
I really like this idea... real magic should go beyond spells, into the kinds of things Midnight was doing during the later part of the Avatar trilogy before her ascension, and the kinds of things you've cited Elminster as being capable of. Direct manipulation of the Weave without spell formulae is real arcane power, and that almost makes me wonder if Sorcerer should be a 15-level prestige class in the tradition of the Bard, Paladin, and Ranger from Unearthed Arcana 3.5. Or maybe the Warlock covers that area adequately... I've never done anything with the 3.5 Warlock class, so maybe it covers what I'm talking about here.
But I also think magic should have limits. I want it to be adaptable to any version or idea that looks interesting for the setting (including Vancian, which I actually like as long as I can make one minor change), but the real result, especially those that change things permanently or has a strong effect on physical matter, should be weaker than in Ad&d. In general I see magic as being less powerful, if more common in my version. I hate large destructive spells and think even Elminster should sneak away from forty goblins with bows.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Notice that I am a proponent of the 'Chance to hit' with spells that 4e has adopted - I always felt the automatic 'hits' of certain spells a bit artificial. In any good fantasy yarn, we see folks ducking powerful spells, so I feel a mage must have damn good aim as well.
quote:
I concur on the 4E "chance to hit" with spells. I also like 4E's system of opposed attack and defense rolls. No comment on the changes to spells and classes beyond this; I'm staying positive. That being said, for use with 3.x, I would give sorcerers and wizards an AAB (arcane attack bonus) equal to their combined class levels (the same as a fighter or similar class in physical combat) and bards should have an AAB equal to their BAB, as they do twice as many things half as well as most other classes. (IMHO)
I prefer a system that always includes a skill roll when throwing magic, and then a to-hit-roll will be to much and make the spells rather pointless unless one is really good at it. Although this might be balanced with the already existing Psyche vs psyche roll on the resistance table. Then again, I would cut heavily down on combat spells in general.
quote:
Okay, I'll shut up and let Jorkens have his scroll back now. That being said, Jorkens, if you have any comments on my comments, I'm always interested in hearing them. Mostly, tho, I want to see more of your "ridiculously un-canon Realmswork"(TM)...
Dont shut up. But as I said, I am starting to burn myself out here, so it will probably just be a couple of posts more for now. In addition I have to think out a different way of doing the geography; the notes and ideas for Scardale alone became three pages in a notebook which is far to much. I could just propose the changes to canon, but that wouldn't have the right feel to it.
One question to those reading though; what would be the main problems if I made the Sea of Fallen Stars into a freshwater sea? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 14:32:45
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And here we are, the last of the classes. Now I only have Time in the Realms left.
Bards
The name bard is one common along the western shores of the Sea of Fallen Stars. It there usually means one of the wandering storytellers and sages that can be met in many a tavern and any local festival. They tell stories about the old elven kingdoms, the glory days of Myth Drannor and of the ancient heroes of the tethen, the turmishar and the early settlers from Chondath and the Great Dale all of these are intermingled with stories about the gods, the spirits and the happenings of history, not just the happenings of this world, but also the tales of innumerable ages and planes that help form the reality seen today, in the past and in the future. The stories are told using elements of song, of poetry and minor magic's.
In each place they travel the bards study the happenings and visits the places of power nearby. All information of importance is gathered and spread and any dangers found told to Harpers or friendly rulers. What is important and what is not is decided by the ancient rules that decide each bards rout and which stories are the be his or her main focus. This might be anything from common tavern gossip to the philosophical ramblings of mist dragons and the ramblings of leucrottas. Outside of these routs and objectives the bards all follow their own goals and plans. The bards have a reputation for truthfulness and honesty, but one should be careful to remember that this only concerns the craft of bardmanship and the devotion to knowledge. In their private dealings the bards are like anyone else and more than one blue eyed and naive youth has been swindled robbed or even killed by a wandering bard.
These bards of the Heartlands, also called true bards, are a combination of two distinct traditions. The first one is the bards of Myth Drannor, an ancient order based on the traditions once taught in that mythical city. They were the artists, the communicators and chronologists of the city, travelling far and wide gathering knowledge to the sages and libraries and at the same time spying upon the world as a whole. In those days the bards took many forms and were of numerous species; even today some beasts and monsters carry parts of this heritage, especially in the Dalelands and within Cormanthyr. The bards of the Myth-Drannan tradition are today either educated in the quiet valleys and glens of the Dalelands or travel far away (usually through hidden gates) to the modern city of Silverymoon far to the north, where the sorcerer queen of Silver and Stars reigns and tries to remake the glory of ancient Myth Drannor. They spend years and years learning the stories and tales that together form the story of the cosmos and the role of Faerun within this. They learn how the magic in many forms and the various beings of reality binds together and also how they undo themselves unless mortals manage to keep the controlling time flowing. These are also the teachings of the brotherhood known as the Harpers, also dedicated to physically fight the enemies of these ideas and philosophies.
Some of these ideas conflicts with some of the traditions followed by the eastern group of bards, which trace their origin back to the tethen Tellers of Dreams, which seek to keep time flowing, but view the whole of reality as a turning wheel in constant movement. As long as it is helped by ceremonies, prayers and songs told and acted out at specific locations on specific days, the world will keep on turning in its decided path. These bards were (and are still in some areas) more of a priestly nature than the western type, but in many areas, such as Cormyr and Twilight Hall, the two traditions have mixed albeit somewhat uneasily. Tethen bards are not educated within bardic schools and academy’s as they share some of the druids aversion to writing and maintain that the most important parts of their craft can only be thought through solitary meditations and communications with spirits, often in the form of birds or birdlike beings. More than one tethen bard has actually been taught by the Aarakocra, the birdmen of the Osraun and the Storm Horns.
The Harpers, which will not be discussed here, incorporates traditions from numerous sources, such as elven, Myth Drannan, tethen, Druidic and wizardly lore. This comes in addition to clear religious elements that are essential to most members, often tied to various cults dedicated to moon goddesses. The halls of Twilight and Harper Hall in Silverymoon both do their best to bind these elements together, but the internal conflicts are many. The bards are seen as being among the most important members, in addition to rangers, and some seem to think that the bard and the Harper is more or less the same, but there are many bards who don’t follow those who harp. Still, the tie has made the life of many wandering independent bards risky in areas such as the Moonsea where Harpers are far from welcome.
Among the sailors of Anchorome there are storytellers that share some of the bards beliefs, but have a very different view on the world. In the North there are many travelling minstrels and storytellers that share many of their traits with the bards, being storytellers poets and magicians, but these are generally entertainers or professionals working for pay and masters, not for ancient beliefs about the being of the cosmos. They might be artists or worshippers of gods dedicated to joy and festivities and they might even be members or allies of the Harpers, but both by tradition and nature they are of a different breed more akin to the entertainers that are also given the title bards by some.
These bards are the common story tellers, singers and players of instruments that can be found all over Faerun. They can be Turmishaan spell dancers, Calishite sword dancers, court poets from Murghom, tethen shadow singers, spell shapers, Gur fire whirlers, courtesans, jesters, Impilturan battle poets, master harp players, dwarven chanters,battle chanters or centaur tale singers. They have many names and forms, they might be travellers, they might be swordsmen and they might be spell users. They might be all these things at once, but they are not bards in the true form.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 17:02:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
D'you think this has something to do with Ed's current Elminster story arc (Elminster Must Die and its sequels)? It makes one wonder if Elminster is the key to a whole lot more than just a massive secret of Cormyr... but this scroll is about un-canon Realmswork, and I digress into canon... (and MT, if you want to answer this question, either start a new scroll or PM me; my reply is derailing Jorkens' scroll enough as it is, for which I apologize)
And how does one make anything uncanon except by talking about canon? This thread should be as much about derailment within the theme as it should be a place for me to post ramblings, so go on doing it.
Cormyr is the thing I really want to do and something of a carrot to keep my working on the geographical part. I want to see how much of Karameikos I can sneak into it without destroying it completely.
 This has some brilliant potential... but I'll keep away from speculation on possibilities here until you've had your fun with the infusion.
<chop>
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Okay, I'll shut up and let Jorkens have his scroll back now. That being said, Jorkens, if you have any comments on my comments, I'm always interested in hearing them. Mostly, tho, I want to see more of your "ridiculously un-canon Realmswork"(TM)...
Dont shut up. But as I said, I am starting to burn myself out here, so it will probably just be a couple of posts more for now. In addition I have to think out a different way of doing the geography; the notes and ideas for Scardale alone became three pages in a notebook which is far to much. I could just propose the changes to canon, but that wouldn't have the right feel to it.
One question to those reading though; what would be the main problems if I made the Sea of Fallen Stars into a freshwater sea?
The biggest thing that comes to my mind immediately is that the shalarin would all die; I believe they need a saltwater environment. Beyond that, I think that the sahuagin and aquatic elves are equally happy in either environment, but I might be wrong about the sahuagin. On a more mundane level, you'd probably have to change the fish populations... or make the SoFS fish-free, which wouldn't do much for the fishing industries of nations like Aglarond and Impiltur. Do any other scribes have thoughts on this that I've missed? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 17:17:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
This has some brilliant potential... but I'll keep away from speculation on possibilities here until you've had your fun with the infusion.
<chop>
Nope, you will speculate suggest and come with any coment you can think of. Yes, that sounds better to me to. All I am saying is this; Baron Hendriks in Darkhold, Tethen nobles in Arabel and Marsember grumbling, Chondathan and tehten groups scoffing against each other, B-series and Hutaakans in the mountains, the last descendants of the Talfir.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Okay, I'll shut up and let Jorkens have his scroll back now. That being said, Jorkens, if you have any comments on my comments, I'm always interested in hearing them. Mostly, tho, I want to see more of your "ridiculously un-canon Realmswork"(TM)...
Dont shut up. But as I said, I am starting to burn myself out here, so it will probably just be a couple of posts more for now. In addition I have to think out a different way of doing the geography; the notes and ideas for Scardale alone became three pages in a notebook which is far to much. I could just propose the changes to canon, but that wouldn't have the right feel to it.
One question to those reading though; what would be the main problems if I made the Sea of Fallen Stars into a freshwater sea?
The biggest thing that comes to my mind immediately is that the shalarin would all die; I believe they need a saltwater environment. Beyond that, I think that the sahuagin and aquatic elves are equally happy in either environment, but I might be wrong about the sahuagin. On a more mundane level, you'd probably have to change the fish populations... or make the SoFS fish-free, which wouldn't do much for the fishing industries of nations like Aglarond and Impiltur. Do any other scribes have thoughts on this that I've missed?
[/quote]
Well, the Shalarin are not that important to me. The Sahuagin I would change with Kua-toa (sp?), the aquatic elves and tritons work both places. And no sharks of course. The fishing is not that much of a problem, it just changes the sort of fish available as far as I know. It will change the look of the coastal areas of course and make it easier to inhabit some of the islands. The animal life would become more like the Great Lakes. I dont know why I want this, it just seems right somehow. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 17:28:33
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| Oh yea, and I am seriously considering adding intelligent giant sturgeons (who will never be named Theodore) to the Sea of Fallen Stars. Ancient and knowing in spirit magic they should be something like Yoda in fish form, and be the goal of quests along the seashores and river outlets. It could be fun. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 17:34:59
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Well, I'll see if I can track down some Karameikos material... as mentioned in the past, I still have none of my pre-3E gaming books or Dragon magazines anywhere near me, and I haven't played in Mystara for long enough that I don't want to trust my memory.
I like the Kuo-toa as a substitute for the Sahuagin... and I understand the Fallen Stars-Great Lakes parallel... it probably has something to do with being Canadian, knowing that Ed is as well, and knowing that Cormyr is on the northwest side of the SoFS... hrm... if you were to make Urmlaspyr the size of Calimport, you'd have a Realmsian Toronto... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2010 : 17:44:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Well, I'll see if I can track down some Karameikos material... as mentioned in the past, I still have none of my pre-3E gaming books or Dragon magazines anywhere near me, and I haven't played in Mystara for long enough that I don't want to trust my memory.
Actually working from memory and the impression that is left is sometimes the best way of forming ideas. I try my best to not look at the source books while I am doing this. Not because of any arrogance, just to see what ideas are the first I think of. Modifying with source books comes later. So if anything pops up don't worry about if its right by the book or not. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2010 : 14:13:12
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And this will probably be the last one for now. I am working a bit on the Dalelands, but we will have to see how it goes.
Time in the Realms.
Any sage that tries to chronologically write a history of one of the Realms many lands and empires, both of the present day and of earlier ages has an impossible task ahead of him. Even if the Eastern Heartlands at the moment use a standardized time line mistakenly known as Dale reckoning (it was originally based on the Chondathan emperor Chaeiras III rise to power and declaration of the northern coast of the Sea of Fallen Stars as Chondathan territory, The date was later used by an early lord of Mistledale, Galath, who also erected the Standing Stone, containing an inscription using the Chondathan date. This was done in preparation to claim the Dales as his rightful realm and as old as the new lands of Sembia and the claims on Cormyr. Unfortunately for Galath his continual raiding and random taxation finally annoyed to many of the independent Dalesmen and he was overthrown. The stone still stands though, ironically the greatest legacy of Galath although his name is no longer tied to the stone, and the year marked on the stone has become the accepted birth date of the Dales. Few cares about grumbling sages in faraway lands anymore and the elves, who never really understood the concept of time anyway, don’t care. Trying to put a number on things that happened some time during the life of an immortal that might be born again since is rather irrelevant in their view. The Sembians, who seek to distance themselves from the Chondathans anyway use the name and Cormyreans acknowledge it, although they also use the Cormyrean Timeline in official documents and tethen year-names. To the North, the system is used by the people of the Moonsea settlements as well, although these often keep and official city timeline that is used on official documents and in decelerations. The spread of the Dalereckoning has also been greatly helped by the Harpers who generally use the system to make their tasks easier, much to the annoyance of the rangers and certain other members.
In addition to the dates inherited from the Chondathan/Dales timeline each year is usually given a title by sages and official documents. This is also the form used by most commoners in all of the Western Heartlands. It is originally based upon the turmishan tradition of naming a year after its most important happening (this causes some conflict with titles used in the north) which was also adapted by tethens who had mostly just used “in the time of...” The cyclic world view of these people were not easily adapted to numbers anyway, and in the few cases were an event was important enough, it was used as a point of reference. ex. “He lived in the days of Amblerii, a generation after the Battle of the Thousand Dead”. This is still the most common way of doing things and in many areas there are clear superstitions against putting time into a row of numbers. Even today the Talfir, an early tethen urban culture, is known as the people who wrote and thereby stole a part of the worlds power. It is told that these acts almost stopped the turning of time and the world by trapping it in parchment and the gods saw no other choice than to destroy the Talfir in the same way as they destroyed Netheril. And according to some the Netherilians attempts at controlling time was what led to their downfall also.
One problem with the naming system is that it will of course lead to a wide variety of titles decided by what is important in any given area. To try to put an ending to this confusion a sage living in the towers of Candlekeep on the Sword Coast decided to try to put together a new timeline. He hit upon the brilliant idea of using a name based on what was going to happen instead of what had already taken place, thereby letting people decide for themselves what happening had been the one tied to the name. To do this he dug up the ancient prophesies of the Lost Sage Augathra the Mad and worked for years to put these into some sort of order. When that was done he still lacked prophesies for a number of years, which he solved by (according to who you believe) either making up a mass of new names or by entering a year long trance where the deities of knowledge saw fit to give him the names that were missing from the story of the past and future. This system was put into use by the scribe monks of Candlekeep and quickly gained popularity among many sages and Harpers as it was both easy to use and did not cause the constant arguments every other system did.
Although the Dalereconing is common along the west shores of the Sea of Fallen Stars it is not used in most of Faerun and even Alaundos Roll of Years is uncommon outside of the Heartlands and among scribes and sages. In the North people mostly still count in generations by memorizing long rows of ancestors and local rulers. This is what is commonly done in many lands even further away, both the calimshite and the ancient lands along the Alambar coast, who all base their chronologies on the rule of different dynasties and rulers. In Mulhorand and its old satrapies this is combined with notes on cosmic happenings and divine messages. And in Chessentha the form of counting known as Dragon years is popular in a variation dedicated to the return of Tzassar the great dragon. Each century is one age and each one that doesn't lead to the return of the dragon leads to the turning of time and the work to bring the god back has to start anew. Attempts by the Cult of the Dragon to use this system has been a failure, at least until now. And in the great city of Waterdeep there are even two official time lines, one based on the city’s founding and one on the rise of the first lord, Ahghairon. Both the Dalereckoning and the prophesies of Alaundo are well known here though.
The elves and faerie creatures cares little for time and most of them don’t even understand the subject. This has led to the term “in faerie-time” in the North, as a name for something that will happen when it will happen.
The dwarves use time in much the same way as the Chondathans, by giving each year a number, but they don’t have a uniform system; each holding has two lines, one based on the clan and one based on the hold or land they belong to. The last one is slowly disappearing along with the dwarven nations though, and in many cases the local human system will be used in addition to the clan-year.
Goblinoids count great events and usually mark the passing of time by cutting markings into the cave walls. In many groups there are superstitions and religious traditions about letting to much time pass before the next marking of an event. This might both be from a chronological and circular view and might be either a repeated act or a new deed. It depends on the local tradition. Some go by the rotting of a skull, some hit a leg bone against an altar until it breaks, when this happens the gods have decided that its time to act. Hobgoblins will often differ from this though, with many counting after the local human systems and others using a complicated system based on a Life with specific actions needed to be taken at specific times by each individual. These generally follow a norm, but occasionally a shaman will find a newborn with a geas proclaiming a different path.
The gnomes and hin simply talk of “in the time of.. “ whether it be a forefather or an important event. It is rumoured though, that the Imagemakers of the gnomes records all of time in their tower and can look into all of time as it has passed. It should be mentioned though that all questions asked concerning the mysterious order is answered either by a shrug or by the wildest stories ever told.
Calendars
This subject is both easier and more complicated. All beings see the year as divided by the weather conditions and seasons. Some just counts the seasons, some use the moon and stars to mark all from each single day to a few important days such as midsummer and midwinter. For most common people the marking of the seasons is enough, with the cycle of the moon being used if a more specific date is needed. The months, more or less universally seen as twelve in a year, are divided into periods of various lengths, such as tendays, weeks, domen, hyrar and rides.
The complicated part is though, that there are an enormous amount of names used for the months by the various peoples and races, the same goes for the festivals and important days, which may be tied to history, spirits, happenings in a more or less innumerable amount of other variations.
There is one system that is relatively common in most of the urban societies and that is the calendar of Harptos. The Harptos, until then most common in the lands of the Sea of Fallen Stars and northwards, was originally a Chondathan and Mulhorandan system. It has been said to have been fully developed by the long-dead wizard Harptos of Kaalinth, this dating system, using twelve months bearing both a common and a descriptive name, is an ancient one and has later been further developed by deciding that each month should be divided into three tendays each, with five days falling in between the months, but not part of them. The Tethyrian Haptos did the final standardization of the names and added the descriptive system to the existing one. The finished system, first presented to the merchant guilds of the kingdoms then found in the Tehtyr region and to the traders of Chondath was then spread by traders needing a usable system for making agreements and dates of delivery.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 10:47:56
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Well, after all these years I finally got my hands of a copy of the great 70's Bad Hersfeld band The Hand of Dooms only album Poisonoise. One gets inspired by something like that.
The Dalelands.
The Dalelands is an area more or less in the centre of Faerun, located around and within the great forests of Cormanthor. The ancient, magical forest of the elves is the largest area of woodland in the northern Faerun and steeped in myths and stories that vary from the true to the outrageously funny. The creatures, weather, vegetation and emotions of the forest all show signs of its magical nature. The area, both the deep forests and parts of the Dales themselves, is known to be among the most magical in the world and has for centuries been the centre of elven presence among humans. From the elven court, or Everlor, they have ruled these forests for millenniums, and although they have now decided to draw themselves back to the hidden worlds they came from, the elves still keep watch over the area. And although the seen presence of the elves have decreased, the rumours claim that every hill is an elven mound and a gateway to another world and that every deer track leads to a dancing site from satyrs and nymphs, and although this is of course an exaggeration it does shape the way the Dalesmen look upon their land. The contact with the elves has not been a part of daily life for centuries, but almost all dalesmen has grown up hearing stories about the days when all races lived within the confines of the fabulous city of Myth-Drannor, said to be located in the spot of the strongest magic found anywhere in Faerun, existing both in this world and a dozen others.
The name Dalelands is usually used to mean the collection of small, independent realms located in and around the Cormanthor area. Many of these communities have been here for as long as even the elves have tales and the inhabitants have been mixed by wave after wave of settlers. There seems to have been humans hiding among the trees already during the days of Netheril and several groups settled here after the fall of the magical realm and, with time, from its successor states as these slowly fell. Some came trough the numerous gates in the area. Others moved in from the wild Moonsea tribes, but most modern Dalesmen see themselves as descending from the lands of the East and the Great Dale. The language here is therefore related to the tongues of the Vast, but is also mixed with the Chondathan of Sembia and the southernmost Dales. The trade tongue is understood by most people, as is a smattering of elvish.
The individual Dales does not form a collected state, each area is independent, with the yearly meeting of the Dales Council being the nearest thing to a united government there is. Even if the Council have a tradition for voting it has little real power. How this will change with the new situation of the Dales is uncertain. With the recent collaboration against Lashan, the triple threat of Sembia, Cormyr and Zenthil Keep, in addition to the enormous increase in danger from Cormanthor presented by the elven retreat, a closer alliance seems a necessity. The work of the Harpers, with strong interests in the area and various degrees of conflicts with the neighbouring nations, is both a boon and a problem where this question is concerned. They may be helpful in both protecting against and locating the dangers of both gates and creatures within the Dales and the woods, but they also demand a certain influence in the doings of the rulers and people of the area. Needless to say diplomats from the Moonsea, Cormyr and Sembia do their best to discredit the Harpers and show the advantages of collaborating wit them instead.
The question of iron has always been a complicated one among the dalesmen. Being farmers and having good trading relations with the dwarves of the Tethyamar, it was tempting to put the new tools into use. And although it caused quite a bit of friction with the elves it was an easy choice for the southern Dales, which saw the metal as useful both in developing the land and in defending themselves from Sembian interests. The relationship with the elves was in many places strained already due to some dalesmen having taken to the Sembian method of using salt and iron lines to stop the magical forests of Cormanthor from growing back after being cleared.
With these changes the spirits have also lost some of their position and several springs are now dead, as are whole glens and hills. The priests of Sembia and Cormyr have not been slow in taking advantage of this and in the last century several modern temples have been constructed in the Dales.
Further north things developed more slowly and in some areas, like Shadowdale the use of iron is still somewhat restricted outside of lords soldiers and the militia. How the elven retreat will be affected by this is still uncertain, although more than one has commented on the catastrophe that was the result of the reluctance of Daggerdale and Teshendale in adopting iron. Teshendale fell to Zenthil keep first and in Daggerdale the Mourn family, strong in bardic lore and revering of the Dales spirits, chased the iron using dwarves back into the mountain and started a feud that weakened the Dale. This, in combination with the inferiority of their bronze arms made Daggerdale an easy target for the forces of Zenthil keep. On the other hand the danger of relying to heavily on the power of steel and iron was shown in the recent defeat of Lashan of Scardale. Lashan, having great disdain for magic, depended on a mercenary force of Cimbaran spear-men, Chondathan crossbow men and horsemen gathered from various groups of brigands, which was in the end cut to pieces by a combined army using both iron weapons and various magic's. The story of Gondegal does of course show the danger in going to far in the opposite direction. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 30 Aug 2010 11:19:14 |
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Some ridiculously un-canon Realmswork
