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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 14:13:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Trolls are slimey, can I be an Ogre instead? Shrek made Ogres cool! 
According to the "What Monster are you?", I am a Bullywug! |
Edited by - Brimstone on 17 Jul 2010 15:00:18 |
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Tasker Daze
Seeker
84 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 14:46:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
However, when some scribes, pennants firmly planted in the soil of Grognardia, tell me the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese, not because they believe it so, but because things are changing, and they wanna hold on to some 'perfect vision of Realms that never was'...
*that* is annoying.
OK, I tried to keep away as there is little point in being reasonable about anything here any more. But these kind of comments are in my opinion a bigger problem than name-calling between two posters. The generalisations used to annoy or offend as many posters as possible (usually with the excuse like "I didn't mean you" when commented on). So I like the old Realms TSR editions and don't follow new products. Then I am a Grognard and even though I never comment on anything Brace writes I am now dragged into this. Over the last couple of years I have also been categorized as one of the people who has given up on the Realms, a nostalgic that should get over it, a "typical" Candlekeep scribe, something other than a "true" Realms fan (by both sides as I don't care about 4ed. one way or another), hater, more or less Realms-killer, one who doesn't care because I haven't bought the latest book, and without a right to comment as I am not a customer. All with the wonderful help of generalizations and comments about "those posters" and "people who..." It has also been hinted a Candlekeep that going against canon in 'Keep submitted material is disrespectful of the writers, which is the final straw for me. It seems like I have to be one of the main sources of trouble here, at least as long as some posters (see I can do it to) feels the constant need to comment on what Candlekeep and a "true" Realms-fan should be. And all of this without being involved in the bloody discussions in the first place!
And the ridiculous thing is that it is a "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" situation; if I do make an argument back or take offence I am putting myself in whatever group someone has a beef against. So it might seem like I am overreacting, but enough is enough.
Rant over.
I mostly lurk, and don't post alot. BUt I think this post has the truth of it. There's people here who attack others for not loving every single thing ever published about the Realms. It's like you're not worthy of respect if you find flaws in any part of the setting.
That's what's causing the edition wars. It's not a division of people who like 3E and people who lik 4E. It's a division of those who can't respect the opinions of others and those who can. I don't see 4E people being attacked for their opinions. I do see 3e people being attacked for thier opinions. And it's not even all 4e people attacking all 3E - its mostly a few people that seem to think they've got to convinve everyone else of how right they are.
There is simply no respect, and that's sad. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 14:59:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
I mostly lurk, and don't post alot. BUt I think this post has the truth of it. There's people here who attack others for not loving every single thing ever published about the Realms. It's like you're not worthy of respect if you find flaws in any part of the setting.
That's what's causing the edition wars. ....
I agree, now I guess the next question would be: What can we do about it? As long as some people continue to spread negativity (even if it's 1% of the scribes), then the hate will be at the spotlight of these scrolls.
I can try this: I will not feed the keep's trolls, or bait anyone into making a negative/offensive comments. For what it's worth. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 15:01:26
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Well said Tasker... |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 15:32:54
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[/quote]
However, when some scribes, pennants firmly planted in the soil of Grognardia, tell me the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese, not because they believe it so, but because things are changing, and they wanna hold on to some 'perfect vision of Realms that never was'...
*that* is annoying.
[/quote]
So are you saying that because of my love for The Old Grey Box, that I am some fool to be pitied because he just doesn't know any better? Grognard and PROUD OF IT!
Remember no Grey Box and none of this is here. Only in Ed's home and his player's hearts would the Realms live. A perfect vision of a Realms that never was, huh Brace?
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 15:50:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
I don't see 4E people being attacked for their opinions.
Well, to be fair, the comments concerning 4ed. was much worse a couple of years ago and some of that still in the background of the arguments here.
And what we can do? Damn if I know, having to tell people to try to be civil and respect each others opinion about a game is a sign of how ridiculous these arguments are. But the outright baiting done by some posters at times is the biggest problem in my opinion.
We are all here because we enjoy a fantasy setting, but this setting has gone through several editions and it is also an rpg setting which means that there are thousands of individual versions and takes which deserves as much respect as the official versions. In other words its a wonderful mess. We are not going to agree on everything and Candlekeep should not be about one version or have a "voice" outwards. This goes whether we are talking about canon, a "Candlekeep version" how fans should contribute, or how we judge the quality of the setting. Some people have very clear ideas on how they think Candlekeep should work and what it should be, but in the end this is Alaundo's page and unless he says otherwise Candlekeep should stay the way it (in theory at least) is, open to all ideas and versions. There is no reason to post or submit here except having fun and working on a hobby and nothing is more irritating than people telling you how you should enjoy your hobby.
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 16:07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
We are all here because we enjoy a fantasy setting, but this setting has gone through several editions and it is also an rpg setting which means that there are thousands of individual versions and takes which deserves as much respect as the official versions. In other words its a wonderful mess. We are not going to agree on everything and Candlekeep should not be about one version or have a "voice" outwards. This goes whether we are talking about canon, a "Candlekeep version" how fans should contribute, or how we judge the quality of the setting. Some people have very clear ideas on how they think Candlekeep should work and what it should be, but in the end this is Alaundo's page and unless he says otherwise Candlekeep should stay the way it (in theory at least) is, open to all ideas and versions. There is no reason to post or submit here except having fun and working on a hobby and nothing is more irritating than people telling you how you should enjoy your hobby.
I couldn't say it any better.
My thought on the ignore feature:
I wouldn't use an ignore feature because I really do value everyone's opinions. Even the ones who label me a 'jerk' or 'whiner' for liking the current setting of the Forgotten Realms. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 16:11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Tasker Daze
I don't see 4E people being attacked for their opinions.
Well, to be fair, the comments concerning 4ed. was much worse a couple of years ago and some of that still in the background of the arguments here.
Agreed, though we've thankfully moved past that, for the most part.
I personally find that I have little to contribute to discussions of the 4E Realms, so I stay out of them. Sure, I could do the random anti-4E comments that we saw not so long ago, but that's not contributing anything. It's just better on everyone -- myself included -- to not stir things up like that.
I wish more people felt that way. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 16:13:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
We are all here because we enjoy a fantasy setting, but this setting has gone through several editions and it is also an rpg setting which means that there are thousands of individual versions and takes which deserves as much respect as the official versions. In other words its a wonderful mess. We are not going to agree on everything and Candlekeep should not be about one version or have a "voice" outwards. This goes whether we are talking about canon, a "Candlekeep version" how fans should contribute, or how we judge the quality of the setting. Some people have very clear ideas on how they think Candlekeep should work and what it should be, but in the end this is Alaundo's page and unless he says otherwise Candlekeep should stay the way it (in theory at least) is, open to all ideas and versions. There is no reason to post or submit here except having fun and working on a hobby and nothing is more irritating than people telling you how you should enjoy your hobby.
I couldn't say it any better.
My thought on the ignore feature:
I wouldn't use an ignore feature because I really do value everyone's opinions. Even the ones who label me a 'jerk' or 'whiner' for liking the current setting of the Forgotten Realms.
As tempting as it would be to use such a feature, I've found that even those I disagree with the most strenuously can still contribute some interesting ideas. I'm not going to deprive myself of the opportunity to read an interesting bit of lore or a nifty concept, simply because I disagree with most everything else said by a particular person. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 16:59:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As tempting as it would be to use such a feature, I've found that even those I disagree with the most strenuously can still contribute some interesting ideas. I'm not going to deprive myself of the opportunity to read an interesting bit of lore or a nifty concept, simply because I disagree with most everything else said by a particular person.
I have to agree that it could be used as such, but for me, an ignore feature would only be used for those that aren't contributing to a discussion, but merely arguing to hear their own voice.
I love the fact that the `Keep has so many different scribes from all eras/editions/whatever. I know that I'm not an expert on the Realms, and that if I really want to know something I can post a question here and find out about Cormyr in 1485, the North in 1375, or Netheril before the fall. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 17:00:55
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Hey Pathfinder is pretty cool, don't care to much for whats out on Andoran or TAldor though.....
anyway, I quite bashing the rules... I like some of the rules..... dont others...
I much prefer to be snarky though, some of the ones read around here can be funny to read... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 17:22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As tempting as it would be to use such a feature, I've found that even those I disagree with the most strenuously can still contribute some interesting ideas. I'm not going to deprive myself of the opportunity to read an interesting bit of lore or a nifty concept, simply because I disagree with most everything else said by a particular person.
I think this probably best describes my own thinking on the subject as well.
I'm not comfortable with ignoring any one online. Granted, I've had my problems and "fierce debates" with curious individuals both here and at Wizards over the last nine years, but we've all, almost always, managed to reach some kind of understanding in the end. Even if it took years to reach that point.
In fact, I know of one particular instance where a conflict arose between myself and a now long-departed member of this community. For months, we'd dance around each other in various topics here and over on the Wizards boards until, finally, we took the issue to email, and spent long hours hashing out our problems. Now, we catch up regularly either via emails or instant messaging.
I suppose, when it comes to the very heart of the matter, each and every scribe has something they feel is important to contribute to Candlekeep. And whether I agree with their opinions or not, I'll always respect their ability to cast those opinions as they see fit, and present their arguments in a clear and courteous manner.
Personally, I'd vote "No" on an IGNORE SCRIBE function here at Candlekeep. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 18:33:59
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Well, all I know is that Troll tastes like crap, smells like crap, sounds like crap...pretty much is crap.
I'm not afraid to say that anyone that posts anything with the sole intention of trying to inflame the mind of someone else needs to be standing in front of a rushing Troll...or me:
EDIT: well, shows how much I know about computers. All that gibberish below is supposed to be what I am: an Adamantine Dragon.
<p align="center"><img src="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/monster/images/banners/9.jpg"/><br/><a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/" target="_blank">D&D Home Page</a> - <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/monster/index.asp" target="_blank">What Monster Are You?</a> - <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/database.aspx?searchterm=Adamantine Dragon" target="_blank">D&D Compendium</a></p> |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 17 Jul 2010 18:35:04 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 19:33:36
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This forum doesn't play nice with normal forum rules about BB script, DD. Also, if that's any sort of image, this forum doesn't allow that at all.
Which you guys are lucky for, because otherwise I'd be posting my Orcish porn that drove so many from the WotC boards.
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, to be fair, the comments concerning 4ed. was much worse a couple of years ago and some of that still in the background of the arguments here.
There is a difference, though, IMHO....
We did repeatedly bash the products that were released, and the decisions that were made, but AFAIK we never bashed the people who liked them.
I recall most of us having the "I think it sucks, but if you like it, good for you" attitude.
Not this "If you don't like everything they are trying to sell us, you have no taste and are a traitor to the realms" crap.
Unfortunately, this has gotten even more personal then the early arguments. Me and Mr.Misc had some pretty heated discussions over on the WotC boards back when, some REALLY heated ones... and yet we've always managed to maintain a mutual respect for each others intelligence and years of gaming experience.
If we could at least maintain that level of respect, things would be a lot better around here.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 19:57:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, to be fair, the comments concerning 4ed. was much worse a couple of years ago and some of that still in the background of the arguments here.
There is a difference, though, IMHO....
We did repeatedly bash the products that were released, and the decisions that were made, but AFAIK we never bashed the people who liked them.
I recall most of us having the "I think it sucks, but if you like it, good for you" attitude.
Oh, come on now. Unless my brain has been destroyed completely by great music I seem to remember more than enough "This is a slap in the faces of all true Realms fans" or "Any true Realms fan..." bla, bla bla. The comments weren't directed at single individuals, but there were plenty of comments to make a 4ed. fan feel unwelcome. I should know, for it became so ridiculous that I ended up having argue to be included in the definitions of Realmsfans put forward by 3ed. posters.
It did quiet down though, and a hell of a lot of people disappeared. Unfortunately many of these were positive contributes who were very little involved in arguing.
But are we really going to go through a "he started it" discussion here? All sides are to blame to a degree and a hell of a lot of members have no blame at all. I don't mind people arguing as long as they keep it in fitting threads and keep it personal .  By that I mean that it would be nice if people threw their accusations at each other instead of generalizing or hiding behind idiotic terms like munchkins or grognards. And no, I don't think this idea would be popular with the moderators. |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 20:13:02
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It wasn't this bad with 2E to 3E Realms. At least almost all of 2E Realms was still canon and very valid (even stuff from 1E), the only changes (actually, additions) were any race can be any class and up to any level. That's really just it.
Nothing else really changed drastically. The return of Bane? Not far-fetched. Khelben leaving the Harpers? Also nothing RSE worthy. Red Wizard Enclaves? Meh, again, not world shattering. The appearance of Shade? Now that's something sort of RSE, and that was it. The ONLY thing. (well, Evereska being nearly decimated is another, but it's still on the map! Well Tilverton is gone, too...I think that's really it).
3E to 4E...now there's a clear difference and SPLIT.
To get on the topic, my point is, if things are this bad with 3E vs 4E Realms...I'm real worried for when the 5E Realms arrives. Which will be in just a few more years at the vastly expanding rate 4E is receiving (in just 2 years, it's already bloated five times as much as 3e was, in terms of game material anyway).
EDIT: Forgot to add in that, personally, I'm inclined to ignore a lot of the 4E posts on Candlekeep. I try not to chime in, I also try not to debate against anyone talking about or referencing 4E Realms material. When the discussion starts to include 4E-only material, I stop posting and discussing in the thread and move on. That's some advice that I believe, if taken, can avoid a lot of arguments on the forums. It does, sadly, further segregate the community but ignorance is better than warring, I think.
This is so I avoid debates. Unless, of course, the 4E Realms reference involves something that isn't 4E-Realms related and has a precedence in previous editions of the Realms. For example, that 4E article on that group of justice-bringers that used to be a heretical sect of Helm's church, is something that I wouldn't ignore. Or a geographic location that existed prior and has been given more information in 4E Realms, I don't have a problem with that either.
When things start discussing about anything Abeir-related, Eladrin-related, planar-related, etc. (anything else the "Points of Light" 4E setting slammed and crunched into the Realms), I move on.
This is done to keep the peace. For me, it has to be that way. I just refuse to accept that material in the Realms. It's not valid to me. Just like if someone, for example, doesn't care about Maztica, they simply just ignore anything Maztican related or don't chime in when Maztica is brought up. The same can go for 3e and 4e. |
Edited by - Razz on 17 Jul 2010 20:23:54 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 21:09:40
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We are starting to drift into unsavory territory again folks.
This is a discussion about 'stopping the hate', not 'WHY I hate...'
Hmmmm... I seem to have dusted-off my old Gamewinners mod hat... sorry Sage and Wooly.
I'd just rather see something positive come out of this thread, which would be a bit of an irony. We don't need to have yet another closed. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jul 2010 21:10:13 |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 22:04:36
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I'm for more ''trolls'', these discussions can be interesting, dear god if someone called you a hater, some people get sensitive and won't play anymore over nothing. Closing threads kills the passion.
E.g. what's somewhat annoying is the ''canon purists'' people. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 22:19:30
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| There are forums where getting negatively personal is normal. This isn't one; part of being a civilized adult is how to be passionate without being obnoxious. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 22:19:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
what's somewhat annoying is the ''canon purists'' people.
Oh no!!!!!!! 
Yet another label. 
I believe the proper, derogatory term is 'Canon-Nazis'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jul 2010 22:21:35 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2010 : 22:47:36
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| don't forget Rules Lawyers... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 02:36:56
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| Hey, we Rules Lawyers have our uses! Granted, if we don't want to be strung up we need to keep our lawyering to between sessions... but still. :) |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 13:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
There are forums where getting negatively personal is normal. This isn't one; part of being a civilized adult is how to be passionate without being obnoxious.
I don't mean that extreme, but in this situation more directness and honesty would help rather than the political correctness and the attempts of sarcasm.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
what's somewhat annoying is the ''canon purists'' people.
Oh no!!!!!!!
Yet another label.
I believe the proper, derogatory term is 'Canon-Nazis'.
That be an insult to the Nazis (the soup-ones). |
Edited by - Quale on 18 Jul 2010 13:56:17 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 17:49:20
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| can we label players 3.x and previous haters when they come in and say tahts the good thing with 4e , is that they through out all the old lore?? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 18:04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
can we label players 3.x and previous haters when they come in and say tahts the good thing with 4e , is that they through out all the old lore??
It would be a a deviation from the goals of this thread to label *anyone* a hater.
Further, if a poster at Candlekeep stated that 4e "through out all the old lore"; I think the onus would fall upon the other scribes at the 'Keep to assure this person that all previous lore had not been thrown out. |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 18:11:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
can we label players 3.x and previous haters when they come in and say tahts the good thing with 4e , is that they through out all the old lore??
It would be a a deviation from the goals of this thread to label *anyone* a hater.
Further, if a poster at Candlekeep stated that 4e "through out all the old lore"; I think the onus would fall upon the other scribes at the 'Keep to assure this person that all previous lore had not been thrown out.
Or even better, let him have his opinion and just leave it at that. A question whether the lore could be used is one thing, but its really not necessary to go through the same discussion every single time. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 18:41:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
can we label players 3.x and previous haters when they come in and say tahts the good thing with 4e , is that they through out all the old lore??
It would be a a deviation from the goals of this thread to label *anyone* a hater.
Further, if a poster at Candlekeep stated that 4e "through out all the old lore"; I think the onus would fall upon the other scribes at the 'Keep to assure this person that all previous lore had not been thrown out.
Or even better, let him have his opinion and just leave it at that. A question whether the lore could be used is one thing, but its really not necessary to go through the same discussion every single time.
I concur. One of the biggest points of contention between the pro-4E and anti-4E groups is how 4E affected prior lore. It's actually a large part of why some people don't accept 4E, so trying to convince them otherwise is just going to degenerate into another of the many arguments we've seen so many times over. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 18:44:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Brace Cormaeril
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
can we label players 3.x and previous haters when they come in and say tahts the good thing with 4e , is that they through out all the old lore??
It would be a a deviation from the goals of this thread to label *anyone* a hater.
Further, if a poster at Candlekeep stated that 4e "through out all the old lore"; I think the onus would fall upon the other scribes at the 'Keep to assure this person that all previous lore had not been thrown out.
Or even better, let him have his opinion and just leave it at that. A question whether the lore could be used is one thing, but its really not necessary to go through the same discussion every single time.
Could, Jorkens, but that would be disingenuous. There is a significant difference between an informed opinion and blanket, false statements.
If a poster on these fora stated: "The Azoun IV of Cormyr was succeeded by Bjork, the One True Goddess of Iceland," that would be false, and I hope that scribes here would take that poster to task.
Similarly, if a poster stated, "all previous lore was thrown out of 4e," that would be equally false, and hopefully would be similarly redressed. |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4460 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 19:01:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which you guys are lucky for, because otherwise I'd be posting my Orcish porn that drove so many from the WotC boards.
It's true!!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Well, to be fair, the comments concerning 4ed. was much worse a couple of years ago and some of that still in the background of the arguments here.
There is a difference, though, IMHO....
We did repeatedly bash the products that were released, and the decisions that were made, but AFAIK we never bashed the people who liked them.
I recall most of us having the "I think it sucks, but if you like it, good for you" attitude.
Not this "If you don't like everything they are trying to sell us, you have no taste and are a traitor to the realms" crap.
You know, when I read this I instantly thought of a scroll a while back in which I had to defend my POV and reasons for liking the lore-light approach of 4EFR. I was asked how I could like the Realms when I ddin't want MORE info and detail on the smallest aspect of the setting. And that there was a whole section designed to ask Ed these questions and filling out the Realms more as if I should not only care but should pay close attention to. Also, it seemed as if my positive attitude to the reduction in the Realms pantheon, retcon of the Sun, Moon, Star elves, and replacement of various countries was not only wrong but also very un-Realmsian. So yea, I did take some things personally.
And the same happens when someone goes off on a anti-3e rant about the abundace of epic level NPCs, the goody-two shoes approach of the setting when it comes to good/evil, or any of the various problems some folks had to previous editions of the Realms. Pre spell-plague/anti-4e people get all up in arms and find it a personal attack when it's not, it's an opinion about the setting, not how you play in it.
But that's just it, most people who love one specific aspect, time-frame, or edition of the Realms will defend that edition and take things more personal because of their love. I think we should try to take things into perspective (including myself) and not get so upset over someone else's views. Rather than disputing someones opinions, I'm going to see it from their view and try to compromise or at least try to be civil in a discussion or argument with that someone.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
If we could at least maintain that level of respect, things would be a lot better around here.
QFT.
Edit: I have no idea why it's Blue??! lol
Mod edit: fixed the odd blueness; there was a stray quote coding. I hope it now reads as it was meant to. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 18 Jul 2010 20:01:39 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2010 : 19:02:29
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I am not going to enter a discussion with you over this Brace, but if someone feels all lore was thrown out with 4ed. it might feel that way to that poster and therefore be a fact for him. As is a claim that one edition is superior to another. No one here has any business telling others how they should feel about something or tell them that they are wrong in feeling that way. Two pages of explaining that he or she is wrong is pointless, its been tried here for some time now.
Your other example if an easily verified fact/non-fact without any room for variables unless it is in the persons own campaign and therefore correct there. The two examples are very different.
And quite honestly, I see few cases where a poster should be "taken to task" anyway, unless rudeness and disruptive behaviour was involved. Which is what this thread is about in the first place. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 18 Jul 2010 19:03:27 |
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Can't we Stop the labeling Each other Haters?
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