| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
 Posted - 13 May 2010 : 13:03:11
|
| On the other hand, doesn't Ed's original contract for turning over the Realms state that the IP reverts back to him if WotC/Hasbro/whoever sits on it for too long? I think Ed might have laid plans in case something like this decades ago. I mean, this is the guy who created Khelben... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
 |
|
|
Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 13:05:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I certainly don't want any IP lingering in the astral sea for a decade.
I agree with you. A statement so true it needed to be said twice.
I agree with you. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 13:43:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Hasbro is a Company that would sit on an IP rather than sell it. Hasbro could sit on the D&D Brand for 10 years, and then liscense it out to Blizzard. Then we would have D&D WoW Edition. Only its online...
 Are you trying to give us nightmares, Brimmy? 
No, not really.
Hasbro is a Company that would sit on an IP due to potential earnings.
Now the Ed deal, I truly don't know. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 14:26:53
|
Let's take a look at Hasbro's holdings:
Transformers
GI Joe
My Little Pony
Monopoly
Connect 4
BattleShip
Mouse Trap
Yep, nothing there that shows they are willing to sit on IPs even when the item loses popularity until it comes back into vogue again.
Even if D&D sales drops to levels that forces Hasbro to halt production, I doubt they would give up the IP without some serious money changing hands.
And, for the record, Paizo is not interested in getting IPs, even if they could front the cash. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 14:27:50
|
Oddly, the idea of Blizzard doing a D&D video game (versus any other company) actually doesn't scare me in the least. I'd actually look forward to that, provided it wasn't a WoW game.
Mind you, I miss games like Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, and the (horribly programmed, but fun) Temple of Elemental Evil.
Something like that Blizzard has wanted to produce for its WoW line, but never truly has. Remember that Warcraft 3 was supposed to fill that niche. I'd like to see it done, and Blizzard is the company that CAN pull it off, and CAN program it properly. Heck, a D&D real-time strategy game that doesn't stink would be fun, too. Something, perhaps, similar to the D&D chainmail game (faction-wise), or even something akin to what D&D miniatures used to be.
Anyhoo, BACK on topic,
Brimstone, do you have a link to the thread over at ENworld? That would be handy to see. I'd be sad to see 5 people lose their jobs. Heck, Andy Collins losing his job made me sad, so this is just worse 
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 15:33:10
|
| Gwendolyn Kestrel confirmed WoTC laying Andy off on her facebook page....yesterday....... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
|
|
|
|
Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 16:36:55
|
@Razz: The impression I got from WotC was that everyone was onboard for the ride. Not saying you’re “wrong” (I know how jerkish I come off on the forums, so I want to be careful about this), only that my sense of it was that WotC’s designers were ready to jettison 3E for a less-cumbersome set of game rules that were easier to write splatbooks for, and presumably easier to play the game with.
With regard to WotC and the IP: I don’t see Hasbro dropping D&D anytime soon. If other companies are making money in genres that Hasbro/WotC executives think D&D is a part of (WoW, for instance), they’ll keep trying to get a slice of that pie.
In my opinion D&D won’t ever die, instead it will keep being grossly transformed to fit new money-making models of what's "in" so far as the bean counters see things.
|
Edited by - Mr_Miscellany on 13 May 2010 16:39:15 |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 16:50:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
In my opinion D&D won’t ever die, instead it will keep being grossly transformed to fit new money-making models of what's "in" so far as the bean counters see things.
The name D&D can be tagged to anything. The advantage though, is that by now there are so many "retro-clones" out there that you can choose the version you are most comfortable with and play something at least close to that. So no version of the game can die until everyone looses interest in it. |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 21:17:36
|
Linky that was requested.
The thread was closed, so maybe we should use that as a warning to 'play' nice with each other.
I do know that Transformers, and G.I. Joe have been dead for years at a time only to be repackaged and re-released. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 21:34:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
In my opinion D&D won’t ever die, instead it will keep being grossly transformed to fit new money-making models of what's "in" so far as the bean counters see things.
The name D&D can be tagged to anything. The advantage though, is that by now there are so many "retro-clones" out there that you can choose the version you are most comfortable with and play something at least close to that. So no version of the game can die until everyone looses interest in it.
I have to say, as much as it disturbs me, I think you're both right... we've seen the truth of Jorkens' first statement with the release of 4E, after all... although, to be fair, we saw the first grotesque example of that with the D&D cartoon, and the second with the D&D movie.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 21:49:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
In my opinion D&D won’t ever die, instead it will keep being grossly transformed to fit new money-making models of what's "in" so far as the bean counters see things.
The name D&D can be tagged to anything. The advantage though, is that by now there are so many "retro-clones" out there that you can choose the version you are most comfortable with and play something at least close to that. So no version of the game can die until everyone looses interest in it.
I have to say, as much as it disturbs me, I think you're both right... we've seen the truth of Jorkens' first statement with the release of 4E, after all... although, to be fair, we saw the first grotesque example of that with the D&D cartoon, and the second with the D&D movie.
Hey, I actually like the cartoon. It was made to try and grab the interest of young kids, not to satisfy grown-ups and gamers.
Besides, the wood burning kit and needlepoint kits are better (and much, much funnier) examples from the early days. But they show how early D&D "sold out" and that it is difficult to use that term at all, especially when talking about a specific time or edition. and that business (with good ideas and bad) has been an important factor since the earliest days of the hobby. WotC and their editions might irritate me, but there's more than enough to make one grind ones teeth in the early days to. |
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2010 : 22:14:00
|
I'm unsure of the reasons for the layoffs and such from WotC; but from my own standpoint:
You lay off higher salary individuals or fire them...this temporarily increases your bottom line.
With that increased bottom line, you shift personnel within to cover the empty slots (without a raise) and hire small players later on to fill in any cracks that form in the workload.
This covers your arse by showing your own boss (Hasbro) that you have increased your bottom line with no reduction in ability to function. In some companies this is a solid idea (such as my own former Fast Food "Industry"...and something I did on occasion) but in others it invariably causes damage later down the line. I'm not sure how it plays out for a gaming company though.
Bottom line is LOOT. Without LOOT you get the corp. boot. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 03:58:42
|
The list of resignations and layoffs appears to be a bit larger than originally known:
Peter Schaefer (resigned)
Mike Donais (resigned)
Torah Cottrill
Andy Collins
Jesse Decker
And two others that I haven't seen multiple confirmations for:
Greg Yahn (director of marketing - new business)
Ilja Rotelli (director of online media) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
|
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 04:20:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
The list of resignations and layoffs appears to be a bit larger than originally known:
Peter Schaefer (resigned)
Mike Donais (resigned)
Torah Cottrill
Andy Collins
Jesse Decker
And two others that I haven't seen multiple confirmations for:
Greg Yahn (director of marketing - new business)
Ilja Rotelli (director of online media)
Interesting... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 05:39:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
The list of resignations and layoffs appears to be a bit larger than originally known:
Peter Schaefer (resigned)
Mike Donais (resigned)
Torah Cottrill
Andy Collins
Jesse Decker
And two others that I haven't seen multiple confirmations for:
Greg Yahn (director of marketing - new business)
Ilja Rotelli (director of online media)
The directors of marketing and online media? Wow, that's interesting... I wonder if this will lead to any changes with WotC's online business model. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 05:50:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
The list of resignations and layoffs appears to be a bit larger than originally known:
Peter Schaefer (resigned)
Mike Donais (resigned)
Torah Cottrill
Andy Collins
Jesse Decker
And two others that I haven't seen multiple confirmations for:
Greg Yahn (director of marketing - new business)
Ilja Rotelli (director of online media)
The directors of marketing and online media? Wow, that's interesting... I wonder if this will lead to any changes with WotC's online business model.
We can hope...  ...but in my experience hope is a dangerous thing. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 14 May 2010 05:52:49 |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2010 : 06:15:12
|
@ Brimstone: Thanks for the link.
I'm more sad that more names keep coming out here. Let alone it's not the pre-Christmas layoffs I've been getting all too accustomed to from them. I wish all of them well.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 05:28:36
|
| Mearls the New Manager of D&D |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 16 May 2010 05:31:26 |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 06:25:58
|
Nice guy. I hope he does well at it.
I'll be quiet now. Thank you Brimstone for that.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 09:58:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The directors of marketing and online media? Wow, that's interesting... I wonder if this will lead to any changes with WotC's online business model.
I think so. Maybe more stuff will get published outside of DDI, which many people don't think worth their money.
As an aside: Peter Schaefer... what a pity.
Mike Mearls... the name rings some bells. Maybe he will be better. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
|
Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 11:09:54
|
| Mike Mearls ... wasn't he a podcaster at some point? |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 11:14:40
|
Yep.
Also Monte Cook Presents Iron Heroes by Mike Mearls. Some believe it was the original 4E. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 12:19:55
|
It seems to me that 4th edition does not go well for Hasbro...
Does anyone knows how exactly goes the sales of 4th edition core staff???I read that they said that in the 2 others editions they were published a lot of books ,but on 4th edition they have already published, since 07/2008, 35 books....
I wait for the day where they will sale Forgotten realms rights to another gaming company ... |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 20:51:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
It seems to me that 4th edition does not go well for Hasbro...
Does anyone knows how exactly goes the sales of 4th edition core staff???I read that they said that in the 2 others editions they were published a lot of books ,but on 4th edition they have already published, since 07/2008, 35 books....
I wait for the day where they will sale Forgotten realms rights to another gaming company ...
We've not seen any sales figures for 4E, and I don't think we're going to.
I'll admit I've not paid too much attention to 4E, but I don't think they've published 35 books -- unless you include novels and comics. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 22:12:40
|
WotC has published alot of books for 4E.
PHB 1,2,3
DMG 1,2
MM 1,2, with 3 on the way.
Martial Power, Arcane Power, Primal Power, Divine Power.
Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead.
Dungeon Delve.
Draconomicon 1,2
The 3 Manual of the Planes.
The 2 Adventure's Vaults
The Underdark Book.
Revenge of the Giants Adventure.
12 H1 to E3 adventures.
The 3 Realms books and adventure.
The 3 Eberron Books and adventure.
Thats quite a bit...
Most of the crunch you get with a DDI Subscription, via Character Builder, and Monster Builder on DDI.
So you have people not buying the Books and just spendind $70 a year for everything via DDI. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 22:21:34
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
WotC has published alot of books for 4E.
PHB 1,2,3
DMG 1,2
MM 1,2, with 3 on the way.
Martial Power, Arcane Power, Primal Power, Divine Power.
Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead.
Dungeon Delve.
Draconomicon 1,2
The 3 Manual of the Planes.
The 2 Adventure's Vaults
The Underdark Book.
Revenge of the Giants Adventure.
12 H1 to E3 adventures.
The 3 Realms books and adventure.
The 3 Eberron Books and adventure.
Thats quite a bit...
Most of the crunch you get with a DDI Subscription, via Character Builder, and Monster Builder on DDI.
So you have people not buying the Books and just spendind $70 a year for everything via DDI.
That'd be 41 by my count. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2010 : 22:23:23
|
| I probably missed a few also... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 00:46:20
|
| My bad, I didn't realized they'd put out so much stuff in such a small amount of time. I guess the lessons of 2E and 3E, about flooding the market, still haven't been learned. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 May 2010 00:47:45 |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 03:06:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My bad, I didn't realized they'd put out so much stuff in such a small amount of time. I guess the lessons of 2E and 3E, about flooding the market, still haven't been learned.
Thats one of the reasons I quit buying all of the books.
I can just look at the DDI Rules Compendium and it's all there.
PHB3 was added to it at least 2 months before the book was released.
I do plan on getting the Dark Sun stuff in August. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2010 : 03:14:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
My bad, I didn't realized they'd put out so much stuff in such a small amount of time. I guess the lessons of 2E and 3E, about flooding the market, still haven't been learned.
::tangent::
Mind you I don't follow the line as closely, but part of what White Wolf did initially with their New World of Darkness line was to not flood the market like they had been doing.
::/tangent::
I don't really notice how many books are out, I notice the people complaining about errata in the printed materials (which probably disappears in the DDI), so I've little reason to look at it. Heck the 4e FRCG that I had considered purchasing has the first 50 pages BLANK when I went to purchase it. Yes, BLANK, no text, no maps, not pretty pictures, nothing. I took it to the counter, said they had a bad book, showed them why, and left the book for another purchase.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
WOTC layoffs,,,,,
