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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2010 : 01:37:40
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I was recently thinking about how it'd be great to start a new project of Realmslore involving material in 4E Realms that can be updated to 3E Realmslore to have as a reference guide.
The inspiration came from the recent Dungeon Magazine #177, on how much more detail was added to Vaasa. Along with a map (skewed, of course, but we have MarkusTay for that...I think?), there's also some new Realmslore such as, for example, the Clefts of Razak. (I also see stuff in Thar and Damara, though unsure which is pre- or post-Spellplague).
Now, ignoring the post-Spellplague material is in no way a snipe at 4E and the 4E Realms (I've done enough of that). Due to inconsistencies, retcons, and contradictions with pre-Spellplague Realmslore in general, it should be ignored to keep a level of consistency and continuity.
Just a thought. I wish I could undertake such a project myself but time steals me away. I believe it should be more of a community project anyway.
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 08:45:45
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| I don't think separating lore by edition on principle is ever a good idea. There were enough inconsistencies, retcons etc in the earlier editions to and would you then try to clean up among these to? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 15:31:58
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1st, I had to laugh at "updating 4e lore for 3e". 
Technically, wouldn't that be downdating? 
And if I understand you correctly, I have already done that in at least one place - my Raurin/Hordlands map includes a 4e locale that should have existed pre-Spellplague. 
I was working on the far north (of the eastern heartlands)when I stopped mapping, and I was using quite a bit of Rich Baker's new material for that region of the north Moonsea, merging with the older lore. That area changed a LOT between 1e-3e, and Thar got turned on its side lol. Trying to get everything to work across all edition maps (including vid-game and stand-alone adventures) was quite a challenge, but thats what I live for.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2010 : 17:11:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
1st, I had to laugh at "updating 4e lore for 3e".
Technically, wouldn't that be downdating?
And if I understand you correctly, I have already done that in at least one place - my Raurin/Hordlands map includes a 4e locale that should have existed pre-Spellplague.
I was working on the far north (of the eastern heartlands)when I stopped mapping, and I was using quite a bit of Rich Baker's new material for that region of the north Moonsea, merging with the older lore. That area changed a LOT between 1e-3e, and Thar got turned on its side lol. Trying to get everything to work across all edition maps (including vid-game and stand-alone adventures) was quite a challenge, but thats what I live for.
Yeah, I know the term stuck out like a sore thumb. It is funny in retrospect, but I am glad you got the jist of what I meant LOL
I believe I may have seen the Hordelands map you spoke of, and that's good to hear. One day, before I grow old and die, I would like to set my eyes upon a fully furnished Realms map spanning all 3...er...4...(really 3)...editions of the Realms. And yeah, I noticed Thar got turned around, amongst many other places of course. Sucks that places like Maztica, Mulhorand, Unther, Halruaa and others got torn completely apart, destroying any remnants of its lore, ruins, sites, and past. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 01:36:49
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Well, I don't want to rehash those arguments about them getting rid of 'unintersting locales', since I find all of Toril facinating.
As a carpenter, I know that when a roof leaks I don't bulldoze the house - I fix the damn roof.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 04:04:43
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I guess they didn't get that memo Markus... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 06:51:30
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Interested.
I'm also interested in adding in the 'returned abeir' aspect of the continent. Although, personally, I feel it should go EAST of Wa/Kozakura, so that it is its own entity, but still ports in well. Perhaps it's a way to bring the world together, add something, and include what's been destroyed.
Is that the idea, or are you adding other lore between 1375-ish and 1484 or all after 1484 (with Spellplague as written?).
I'll agree some ideas jump out at me, but I want to know how far from Canon you're wanting to go before I start firing ideas off.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 19:10:53
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You could always call it 'Osse' and double the scale of my Laerakond map (at least double, I'm thinking). We already have a completely unexplored continent on Toril, so f you want to place it anywhere that's as likely a spot as any (going with YOUR suggestion of course, placing it in the east).
As for me, if I were to use it at all, I would use my own alternative placement and put it where Evermeet is, and move Evermeet further south (same longitude, but between the Moonshaes and Nimbral, almost directly west of Lantan).
But I wouldn't use it, not for lack of creativity, but rather because of the redundancy - it's not necessary. FR already had quite a bit of redundancy, not because of Ed, but because of all the stuff that got shoe-horned into FR later.
Who knows, maybe someday I'll produce my own version of FR, with all my own 'corrections' - after all, how bad can it be? What seemed like sacrilege just 2 years ago now seems like a pretty good idea. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 May 2010 19:12:01 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 19:23:07
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i'm trying to have a rough draft of an unofficial (but 99.9% canon) 3.5ed Cold Lands sourcebook ready by the end of the summer
my MS Word outline of Cold Lands canon references is up to 92 pages, and some of you have seen some copy/paste snippets of it when i answer some lore questions on the Cold Lands areas
started the process in 2006, and have simply worked too hard developing the project to allow for the 4e massive changes to the area, but if i see a 4e reference that has some canon that could be backdated (for example The Fall of Highwatch has some references to past history in the area) i will add that as i go |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2010 : 20:34:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
But I wouldn't use it, not for lack of creativity, but rather because of the redundancy - it's not necessary. FR already had quite a bit of redundancy, not because of Ed, but because of all the stuff that got shoe-horned into FR later.
Who knows, maybe someday I'll produce my own version of FR, with all my own 'corrections' - after all, how bad can it be? What seemed like sacrilege just 2 years ago now seems like a pretty good idea.
That got ultimately was removed, yet something else was added in its place.
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Falconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 06 May 2010 04:09:06 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 01:32:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Flaconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 03:21:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Flaconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!
Is there game material for Falconfar, or just novels? I have the Castlemourn core book and first (only?) supplement from MWP; has anything more been announced regarding new material for either setting? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 03:37:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, I don't want to rehash those arguments about them getting rid of 'unintersting locales', since I find all of Toril facinating.
As a carpenter, I know that when a roof leaks I don't bulldoze the house - I fix the damn roof.
Yes, but when someone's roof leaks and someone else comes along and says "My buddy and I can fix that for you" without mentioning that they're not carpenters, but heavy equipment operators, and they have a brand-new bulldozer and backhoe that they've been itching to break in, and the roof owner agrees with no questions asked, it's hard for me to have sympathy for them. 
Okay, I think I've broken that metaphor now... 
Edit: To reply on a more constructive note (er... pun intended?): The only reason there was any substance to the "uninteresting" angle was because they chopped out all the "empty" space for 3E... as MT and our other mappers know, no geography is truly "empty" unless you want it to be, and by removing all that area, they removed opportunity for further detail. But that argument's been made before, I think by MT himself, if not also by yours truly.  MT doesn't want to revisit those issues here, and I don't particularly either; if you're interested, search the 'Keep archives. My bad for going there in the first place, I suppose... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 06 May 2010 03:56:19 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 03:49:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Darkmeer
Interested.
I'm also interested in adding in the 'returned abeir' aspect of the continent. Although, personally, I feel it should go EAST of Wa/Kozakura, so that it is its own entity, but still ports in well. Perhaps it's a way to bring the world together, add something, and include what's been destroyed.
<snip>
What's really funny about the whole 'Returned Abeir' concept is, it's been done before, as anyone who has played the early-90's computer games Ultima VII: The Black Gate and Ultima VII Part 2: Serpent Isle can tell you.
For those of you who haven't, in brief, Serpent Isle was a part of the Ultima world's geography back in the first game, and for volumes IV-VI of the series, the world was torn apart by events at the end of the first trilogy, so that one continent was all that remained. In part 2 of volume VII, the PC and his companions find themselves on one of the missing continents.
It's been over 15 years since I played those games, so my memory of specifics might be a little off, but that's the gist of it.
Sound familiar? |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 06 May 2010 03:51:46 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 04:10:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Flaconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!
Is there game material for Falconfar, or just novels? I have the Castlemourn core book and first (only?) supplement from MWP; has anything more been announced regarding new material for either setting?
No official game material for "Falconfar," so far as I know. It's just the novels. [Though I bet Ed could be "persuaded" to share some possible lore for that setting here at Candlekeep. Eh, THO? ]. CASTLEMOURN still exists, in terms of official material, in only the main setting book. Which is unfortunate, as I'd really like to see this setting expanded upon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 04:13:23
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Falconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!
"Aglirta" is Ed's Tor books? Right?
I would love a Falconfar Map.
Ed+Ed=WIN IN THE REALMS. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 04:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Falconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!
"Aglirta" is Ed's Tor books? Right?
Aye. Ed's "Band of Four" series.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 04:21:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Flaconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!
Is there game material for Falconfar, or just novels? I have the Castlemourn core book and first (only?) supplement from MWP; has anything more been announced regarding new material for either setting?
There is also a 'Player's Guide to Castlemourn'.
I know in the back of the Falconfar Novels is a list of major characters.
My Dooms will be Malguryms(sp).
Lorontar will be a Malgurym Ghost that can possess multiple people at the same time.
I like Ed's version of the Dark Elves(Nifilgar), more that I do D&D Drow now. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 06 May 2010 04:59:32 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 04:22:42
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Falconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!
"Aglirta" is Ed's Tor books? Right?
Aye. Ed's "Band of Four" series.
Thanks, I have been looking for those. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 04:25:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Thats one of the reasons I am Homebrewing my realms. Adding peices of Flaconfar, Castlemourn, and Ed's Dark Warrior/Vengenace works to it.
Further lore on each realm would be greatly welcome, as I've been thinking of doing much the same.
I've already incorporated a great deal of material from Ed's "Aglirta" books into my Realms. Fun stuff!
Is there game material for Falconfar, or just novels? I have the Castlemourn core book and first (only?) supplement from MWP; has anything more been announced regarding new material for either setting?
There is also a 'Player's Guide to Castlemourn'.
Aye. But that mainly serves as an introduction to the setting. Everything published in that PDF is also included in the main setting book.
And, if anyone not already familiar with the setting of CASTLEMOURN is interested in learning more, I'll direct you to the freely available PDF download of the aforementioned Player's Guide here:- http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=12630
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2010 : 14:40:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You could always call it 'Osse' and double the scale of my Laerakond map (at least double, I'm thinking). We already have a completely unexplored continent on Toril, so f you want to place it anywhere that's as likely a spot as any (going with YOUR suggestion of course, placing it in the east).
As for me, if I were to use it at all, I would use my own alternative placement and put it where Evermeet is, and move Evermeet further south (same longitude, but between the Moonshaes and Nimbral, almost directly west of Lantan).
But I wouldn't use it, not for lack of creativity, but rather because of the redundancy - it's not necessary. FR already had quite a bit of redundancy, not because of Ed, but because of all the stuff that got shoe-horned into FR later.
Who knows, maybe someday I'll produce my own version of FR, with all my own 'corrections' - after all, how bad can it be? What seemed like sacrilege just 2 years ago now seems like a pretty good idea.
I've thought about Osse, a number of times, but doubling the scale doesn't change the shape of Osse... I'd need someone with excellent cartography skills to help make it fit. Do you know anyone with such excellent skills? I'd actually prefer NOT to add extra land mass to the overall continent, and Osse would be fine by me, it's just I'd rather see Osse explored for what it is rather than porting Laerakond there... But if you were to "shoehorn" the geography of Laerakond into what is Osse's shape, I'd be much more willing and excited to see that.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
What's really funny about the whole 'Returned Abeir' concept is, it's been done before, as anyone who has played the early-90's computer games Ultima VII: The Black Gate and Ultima VII Part 2: Serpent Isle can tell you.
For those of you who haven't, in brief, Serpent Isle was a part of the Ultima world's geography back in the first game, and for volumes IV-VI of the series, the world was torn apart by events at the end of the first trilogy, so that one continent was all that remained. In part 2 of volume VII, the PC and his companions find themselves on one of the missing continents.
It's been over 15 years since I played those games, so my memory of specifics might be a little off, but that's the gist of it.
Sound familiar?
Oddly, no.I never played any of the Ultima games, so I'm at a bit of a disadvantage for that. I'll have to look those up... Ultima was PC only for a long time, but some of the later games ported across to consoles, right?
Other than that, looking at the concept itself will be fun, and it'll likely give me more ideas to do something fun with it.
/d |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Brix
Learned Scribe
147 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2010 : 19:29:59
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quote:
Originally posted by coach
i'm trying to have a rough draft of an unofficial (but 99.9% canon) 3.5ed Cold Lands sourcebook ready by the end of the summer
Any chance that this will see the light of day? Maybe in a wiki? |
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New Realmslore Project suggestion
