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tomhorth
Acolyte
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Apr 2010 : 23:38:43
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My regular gaming group is looking to start City of the Spider Queen again this summer (Several TPKs and University commitments have delayed our completion of the adventure), we've played the realms quite extensively and added quite a lot of background story to our characters at the behest of our DM. I chose a prestige class for RP rather than powergaming and decided to go with a bard/heartwarder of Sune from Faiths and Pantheons.
Recently, however, I purchased the Pathfinder Core Rulebook, and we love the way the Pathfinder rules work. The DM seems particularly keen to run Spider Queen in Pathfinder rules.
The heartwarder class seems to fit OK, I didn't pick it for it's functionality anyway. I was just wondering if anyone had any experience of using prestige classes in Pathfinder rules and if anyone had had any problems with 3.0/3.5 PrCs being slightly underpowered or unwieldy within the Pathfinder ruleset?
If anyone else has had any conversion or game problems I'd like to hear about them as well. The game seems to allow back-compatibility quite well, but I'd like to get some feedback from those who have played Pathfinder in conjunction with FR/3.5 material.
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wintermute27
Learned Scribe
USA
179 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 01:25:52
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I ran Cormyr: the Tearing of the Weave using the Pathfinder RPG rules and I had very little problem with converting the adventure itself over. The quick and dirty monster conversion I used for monster encounters was CMB=Grapple, CMD=Grapple+11, and Perception=Spot(or search if it was higher). There is a much more detailed conversion guide that can be downloaded here: Link to Paizo.com.
Interestingly, when we converted the 3.5 characters over no one was playing a prestige class, so unfortunately I can't help you too much there. Other than the standard advice to "make sure the HD match the BAB progression" and "get something new each level" updates that most 3.0/3.5 PrC's need to match the Pathfinder RPG PrCs, I don't recall any of the Forgotten Realms specific PrCs being underpowered or clunky. With the revised combat maneuver rules, the generic ones from the Complete books that focus on that particular aspect of the game can become difficult to run (the Reaping Mauler comes to mind). I now that in my group, at least, the base class updates were enough to hold their attention and they felt that they didn't need to prestige to be useful at the table, unlike in 3.0/3.5 rules. |
My Current Campaign: The Adventures of the Stonelanders |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4468 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 02:45:22
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The easiest way to do the prestige classes is to make sure the BAB=HD, like wintermute27 mentioned and change up the Save progression. A good PrC save progression goes: +1/+1/+2/+2/+3/+3/etc.. A bad save progression goes: +0/+1/+1/+1/+2/+2/+2/+3/etc... So at level 10 you should have a +3 for a poor save and a +5 for a good save.
As for skills, if the class has a skill that's been taken into something else (like Hide, spot, or Jump) I would give them the pathfinder equivalent (Stealth, Perception, Acrobatics). That's the easiest way for conversions and just keep the powers and what-not the same.
Of course, you could post what PrC's you looking to convert and see what we can come up with. I did the Master of Chains for Pathfinder and it's much different than the original 3.0 version (and better IMO).
As for monster's CMB I use their grapple and problem solved. As for the CMD, I use their 10 + grapple + Dex and there ya go. You'll have to redo their skills and feats, but that shouldn't be too hard. |
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tomhorth
Acolyte
United Kingdom
3 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2010 : 20:21:26
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| Yeah I figured it would all be pretty simple, I'll read through all the rules properly and have a closer look at the prestige classes/skills etc as well. Have you guys enjoyed playing Pathfinder? Does it freshen things up? |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4468 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2010 : 08:07:39
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Yes and no to some degree. We just finished our first Pathfinder campaign-book (actually it's the Pathfinder world using 3.5 before the Beta test was complete). But using the new rules is nice when it comes to the skills. As a rogue, the fact that I'm level 6 (just made it to 7th tonight) and I have some pretty good numbers in the high teens. Also, I like how it's compatable with all my 3.5 books and converting it is simple.
But then there are the draw-backs. And this is not Paizo's fault but more or less the inherent problems with 3E that (IMO) still exist. Paizo attempted to keep the classes more flavorful and more fun through all 20 levels of play but in the end, a spellcaster will always win out in every aspect of the system. Not to mention that all the uber-min/max styles and builds are still there despite their attempt at balance.
But if I had a choice to go with 3.5 or use Pathfinder rules, I'd most assuredly go with Pathfinder. |
Edited by - Diffan on 14 Apr 2010 08:08:40 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2010 : 13:19:15
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| What Diffan says is true, but I don't see that as a big flaw in the system. I *like* that the wizard is still pretty much king of the hill at the higher levels, but he's not as far atop that hill as he was in 2E/3E. And, they added some neat tricks to the other classes to make them more balanced without making all the classes feel the same (fighter's weapon and armor bonuses, paladins being Charismatic casters, rogues with minor magic, etc., etc.). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 01:25:24
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I agree with Ashe on both counts. In 3.5 I had to use Unearthed Arcana's gestalt character rules to get conversions of my 2E characters that I was happy with, and in Pathfinder I was able to build them all as single-classed characters for the most part. As far as the wizard is concerned, when I think "wizard" I think of Gandalf, Raistlin, Elminster, and Mordenkainen. When I think "4E wizard" I think of the late Doug Henning. Simply put, if magic isn't going to give you a significant useful advantage over your opponents, why bother with it? For the record, I've played (A)D&D since 1984, in the Realms since 1987, and I've played three arcane spellcasters... two in 2E and one in 3.5. I'm not including my 4E playtest wizard in here, because we didn't play 4E for very long before deciding first to go back to 3.5 and then to try Pathfinder. I'll be using Pathfinder exclusively when I get my own campaign started up, but probably still setting it in the Realms; I've done too much work on fixing what I thought went wrong with the published Realms to abandon it wholesale for Golarion now, but I'm definitely following Golarion closely, with my gaming budget going entirely to Paizo.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 15 Apr 2010 01:26:54 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4468 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 02:09:05
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With reguards to the wizard/sorcerer class of 3.5, this is exactly why I've switched to 4E. When you get to a certain level of play, any non-caster class is just out-shined by these classes. Wizards (or druids) who can transform into creatures instantly become front-line warriors. Wizards with wands of Knock and Find Traps make rogues less of a necessity at later levels. And clerics with the right spell selection, feats, and domains easily fill the role of front-line fighters AND can heal, buff, de-buff, and attack at range.
IMO, it just doesn't pay to play non-casters after level 8 or so and still expect to be a great benefit to a party. A good example of this is my one campaign where we were all specialist-wizards and we just dominated level equivalent encounters.
While some people love the fact that they can end an encounter with one spell, I'm more geared towards team play where everyone gets a chance to shine.
Of course, these are just my opinions and they don't necessarily mean that I dislike that system as a whole. Like I said earlier, we're currently in a campaign using Pathfinder rules and I am enjoying playing my rogue/swashbuckler. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
Edited by - Diffan on 15 Apr 2010 02:10:28 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2010 : 05:51:12
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| Let me introduce you to Epic Level Ashe some time. With his 16 levels of Ranger, 3 levels of Barbarian, and 5 levels of Tempest, plus boots of Striding and Springing, plus Blooded, Run, Improved Initiative, Dire Charge, and Superior Initiative feats. Within one round (+16 Init modifier), charging 140 feet and completing the charge with 8 attacks. Kinda hard to cast when you have swords sticking in your spleen. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 15:23:25
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The only conversion rules that get wonky are those dealing with Druidic shapeshifting prestige classes to me (i.e. Daggerspell Shaper, Master of Many Forms). That has been my only real back-compatibility issue. I'm still working through it, mainly because one of my characters was a Rogue/Druid/DSH/MMF). Most of the other classes/prestige classes tend to be fine to run overall. The PF team did a pretty good job. The biggest conversion issues for prestige classes is hit die. Other than that, most classes can be run virtually the same with but a minor tweak here or there.
I don't believe I've run into any major compatibility issues. Given the campaign you're going to be in, rogues are a bit meaner, and their non-magical stealth makes it hard to get them easily.
So, good luck, and good gaming. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 16:39:18
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| Don't forget that they redesigned the base classes to make some prestige classes (like Archmage and Heirophant) superfluous. Something I'm realizing a lot more as I'm converting over some Realmsian PrC's. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 28 Apr 2010 : 16:41:39
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| Hello Ashe. I was telling a friend of mine about all the hard work you've done converting some of the famous NPCs of the Relams over to Pathfinder, and I still can't quite find the thread. Would you mind posting it here for me, please? I'd truly appreciate it. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 03:12:42
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| Ah, thank you Ashe! I was thinking that it was here at Candlekeep rather than Wizards. Maybe that's where I made my mistake, eh? |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 04:33:28
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I did talk about it here in Green Giant's thread, but never posted anything.
Another reason I became reluctant to post was due to the rules for the WotC website that anything posted in their forums becomes their property. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2010 : 05:14:15
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| Ok, I didn't realize that. I can definitely understand your reluctance then, my friend. But if I may say so, I think you've done a truly fine job of converting them over to Pathfinder. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Gambit
Learned Scribe
110 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 11:26:52
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Perhaps it is high time to create a new Pathfinder FR NPC thread right here in this wonderous place known as Candlekeep my friends.
(I call dibs on Elaith if we do this)  |
Edited by - Gambit on 01 May 2010 11:28:59 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2010 : 16:32:05
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*cough*Elaith's done*cough*
Tell ya what... give me a few days to get me notes & all together and I'll start the thread off with a bang. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Pathfinder/3.5 Back compatibility?
