| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 17:13:56
|
The point of having pre 4e material in the past tense and avoiding the contradiction of 4e WotC canon, I think, was to avoid any trouble being caused. I seriously doubt Matt or anyone else wants to stifle anyone's creativity or force submission to any one version of the realms.
Also, quite a few of the posts in this thread could be read as rather hostile or sulky. I don't know if they were intended as such but, as I'm sure we're all aware, it's easy to come off the wrong way when typing out a few disembodied lines of text on the internet; a lot of the subtleties of communication can get screwed up and misconstrued, even when there isn't an emotional element in play.
Having said that, I can't really blame Matt for being just a tad cheesed off. Yes, there has been lots of support and enthusiasm expressed for his proposal, but a great many posts do seem a bit whingey and bitchy. Nobody's suggesting that you have to like 4e, but loudly protesting any suggestion of it's acceptance in order to avoid legal difficulties strikes me as a bit extreme. I appreciate how unpopular the 4e realms are, but I don't think Matt's efforts deserved the reception they received from some scribes. If you don't want to contribute then that's unfortunate but understandable, but I don't think it warrants yet another round of grievance airing and not in Matt's direction.
I don't really understand what the issue is with hosting the compendium off-site is either; if it's a collaborative work by and for Candlekeep, what difference does it make who hosts it?
Anyway, hopefully I haven't come off too negatively, this thread has been rather frustrating to read though.
EDIT: The Sage just pipped me to the post button... |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
Edited by - Cleric Generic on 01 Apr 2010 17:16:35 |
 |
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4488 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 18:42:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
To me he is basically saying that he is going to take his ball and go home if we don't accept New Coke. Notice that when a real professional business like Coke screws up and pisses off their customers, they quickly rectify the problem.
To use the "ball" analogy, Matt never had the ball to begin with. The ball was just sitting there in Candlekeep's court, not being used. Matt asked if he could use the ball some where else so that we could all play. And many people here said that they'd rather he just get his own ball and leave this one alone because it wouldn't be the same game. So CK doesn't want to use the ball but nor do they want the ball to be used by others. It seems to me that CK pretty much killed Diplomacy then and there.
And to Matt, if you come back to read this. There are those who'd love to contribute to a fan-based compendium and you should either PM us (or us PM you) to make it so. I say lets get it done.
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 00:32:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I think it's more about boycotting the production of anything that supports the Realms right now with the intent to kill Faerun rather than see it continued.
I'm a little unclear on where this one comes from... I have never stated I want the Realms to end. All I have said is that I won't support what WotC is currently doing. That's far from wanting their demise -- I'd be happy to give them money again, provided they give me what I want.
I want the Realms to continue -- just not from where they currently are. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 00:40:06
|
I would not mind a new Candlekeep compendium, or Lore-master's Diaries..
as it is right now, the only new FR lore I have heard from anyone was from Erik that the guy who runs the Yawning Portal is named Durnan the 6th
|
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 02 Apr 2010 00:40:37 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 00:41:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
To me he is basically saying that he is going to take his ball and go home if we don't accept New Coke. Notice that when a real professional business like Coke screws up and pisses off their customers, they quickly rectify the problem.
To use the "ball" analogy, Matt never had the ball to begin with. The ball was just sitting there in Candlekeep's court, not being used. Matt asked if he could use the ball some where else so that we could all play. And many people here said that they'd rather he just get his own ball and leave this one alone because it wouldn't be the same game. So CK doesn't want to use the ball but nor do they want the ball to be used by others. It seems to me that CK pretty much killed Diplomacy then and there.
That's taking things far out of context. No one said Matt couldn't be behind a collection of fan-created lore, and no one said that fan-created lore couldn't exist anywhere other than here. The worst that was said was that it shouldn't bear the name of this site if it's not pushed by this site. It is not at all unreasonable to say that something associated with a particular website should remain on that site.
Some folks have opted not to participate. Some folks have said the project should have another name -- and that's it. There is nothing overly negative about either stance, and acting like there is making the situation into something that it isn't.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 01:49:58
|
It seems almost like anything other than "unconditional support" has gotten tossed into the "stubborn non-support" category. What a nice feeling for people who were smack in the middle. I had actually wanted clarification for my questions. 
|
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4488 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 01:53:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's taking things far out of context. No one said Matt couldn't be behind a collection of fan-created lore, and no one said that fan-created lore couldn't exist anywhere other than here. The worst that was said was that it shouldn't bear the name of this site if it's not pushed by this site. It is not at all unreasonable to say that something associated with a particular website should remain on that site.
Some folks have opted not to participate. Some folks have said the project should have another name -- and that's it. There is nothing overly negative about either stance, and acting like there is making the situation into something that it isn't.
I think my context stands. And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm making something out of nothing or if the last few posts from people have made it seem that way. If it's not really that big of a deal then why not just give it the Go-Ahead? |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
|
|
|
Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 02:53:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffin:
If it's not really that big of a deal then why not just give it the Go-Ahead?
Leaving aside the difficulties of Third Edition Realms vs. Fourth Edition Realms, I do not think its entirely unfair to ask the question of whether or a not a netbook, regardless of any other considerations, not hosted on the Candlekeep site should bear the name Candlekeep Compendium (and by association continuity with the previous nine volumes of the Candlekeep Compendium). As point of fact, I think, personally, that it is the very first question that should be asked before before making any other provisions (i.e. the involvement of members of the Candlekeep Community; Third Edition Realms vs. Fourth Edition Realms; etc.).
For my part, I do not have a horse in this particular race. Assuming such a product is of similar quality as the previous nine Candlekeep Compendiums (and I am given no reason to suspect they would not be) then I will read them regardless of edition, version of the Forgotten Realms used, or which site they are hosted on.
If nothing else, I think the discussion on this matter would do well to avoid confusing the various issues. As I am given to understand that Candlekeep is functionally edition neutral, I think it is in the interests of amicable consideration of the future of the Candlekeep Compendium to avoid mixing edition based considerations into the broader question of should another site be supported in producing a product called the Candlekeep Compendium not hosted on Candlekeep.
That having been said, Mr. James, should you produce a netbook, regardless of the name, I will certainly read it and appreciate any contribution to the Realms made by you or others whether its about DR 1375, DR 1479, or DR 40k. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 03:40:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's taking things far out of context. No one said Matt couldn't be behind a collection of fan-created lore, and no one said that fan-created lore couldn't exist anywhere other than here. The worst that was said was that it shouldn't bear the name of this site if it's not pushed by this site. It is not at all unreasonable to say that something associated with a particular website should remain on that site.
Some folks have opted not to participate. Some folks have said the project should have another name -- and that's it. There is nothing overly negative about either stance, and acting like there is making the situation into something that it isn't.
I think my context stands. And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm making something out of nothing or if the last few posts from people have made it seem that way. If it's not really that big of a deal then why not just give it the Go-Ahead?
Why is there need for a go-ahead? If people want to do this, it's their call -- no one is stopping anyone, or even counseling against such a project. Again, the closest thing to opposition has been solely focused on the name of the project. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3253 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 04:30:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I would not mind a new Candlekeep compendium, or Lore-master's Diaries..
as it is right now, the only new FR lore I have heard from anyone was from Erik that the guy who runs the Yawning Portal is named Durnan the 6th
I direct you to Ed's thread. There is new lore almost daily from the sagely one himself. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
765 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 08:55:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some folks have opted not to participate. Some folks have said the project should have another name -- and that's it. There is nothing overly negative about either stance, and acting like there is making the situation into something that it isn't.
Yup. That's almost like suspecting WotC (and specifically the 4E designers) of having ulterior motives ("trying to kill Faerűn") for how the post-Spellplague (keeping it nicely edition neutral–Ha ha!) Realms turned out. And we all know, that is simply preposterous! 
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I think my context stands. And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm making something out of nothing or if the last few posts from people have made it seem that way. If it's not really that big of a deal then why not just give it the Go-Ahead?
No it doesn't (see my reasoning in reply to Wooly above). You don't seem, you are. I am one of the last people that would vote for anything post-Spellplague (I think my signature makes it clear), but I would still contribute to the Compendium if I could. And it would either be something lore-y or 3.5E crunchy, but it would definitely be something Realmsy. And if it were something crunchy I would be sure to collaborate with someone to also have a 4E version of it.
Now as for the 'big of a deal', it is actually one. I don't know if you didn't read some of the concerns properly, so allow me therefore to summarise:
Aluando needs some insight and has not yet been contacted
Regardless of who hosts it, there might (or more likely may not) be direct legal ramifications for Candlekeep as a site. Since we have no guidelines due to, as I understand it, a lack of something forthcoming from WotC, this is probably the biggest concern
If not hosted by Candlekeep, it in all likelihood should not be called the Candlekeep Compendium
If being dictated (or more fairly to Matt, rather strongly suggested) as to content, it does not a Compendium make
If not being contributed to by Candlekeep scribes, it in all likelihood should not be called the Candlekeep Compendium
Much of the above was also rather succinctly put by Edain Shadowstar and I therefore urge you to read (and pay attention to) his view on the matter.
–––
Now, as I've already indicated, I would like to contribute to a Candlekeep Compendium and was wondering if something like the 'Realmspeak' list I am compiling would contain too much (possibly) copyrighted material to qualify?
Edit: Fixed tags. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
|
Edited by - Kyrene on 02 Apr 2010 16:19:53 |
|
|
|
Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 12:42:57
|
I hope I didn't offend anyone by suggesting to re-name the Compendium when hosted on another website. But seeing the current situation, I highly doubt there will ever be a new Compendium, so why not start a new project hosted on Matt's website? Just a thought...
Anyway, regardless of the name or where it's hosted I'm still happy to contribute and I hope Matt doesn't turn his back on these sacred halls. |
|
|
|
Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 13:07:20
|
| Wooly is absolutely right. There is no need at all to blow this out of all proportions. People in this thread have come from different points of view and some maybe can´t be reconciled or fit into a compromise between sides, then fair enough. That can happen, has happened before and surely will happen again. But there is surely no use in searching for malign intent on any side and pointing fingers like guns. Come on people, you´re better than that and I always had the feeling the CK community as a whole was better than that. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
|
|
|
Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 13:30:46
|
| This may help clear up some things for some scribes (me included). What were the original submission guidelines? Any of the past contributors can answer the question. Lets say back in April 2005 I wanted to submitted an article. This article was about the Time of Troubles never occurring and making references to the year being 1385 DR (even though the current year for the game was 1372 DR) Would this article have been published by Jeff? |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3253 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 17:35:30
|
One of the big discussion is whether or not 're-writing' the Spellplague goes against canon. I think this point is pretty moot because of two things:
1) Candlekeep Compendium, while a fantastic source of Realmslore is no more canon than Broken Allegiance is canon to the Star Wars universe. Unless an article is bought from the Compendium by WotC/Hasbro and officially published as a canon source, it is only speculation by fans on what 'might be' in the Realms.
2) Chronomancy and Time Travel are canon as of 2nd Edition. Yes, they haven't bothered to update the art of chronomancy for 3rd or 4th Edition, but even the FRCG lists time travel as possibility for bringing old characters into the new setting. Now, by including time travel, you have to include just about everything that goes with it: the butterfly effect, multiverses, etc. According to the Chrononmancy web enhancement (available here), it states that:
quote:
Toril has many powerful forces devoted to keeping its history intact. Elminster, Khelben Arunsun, the Seven Sisters, and many other powerful wizards have been granted certain undefined powers from Mystra, goddess of magic, to prevent all chronomantic spells from working in their vicinities. Supernatural or priestly agents of Deneir and Oghma (Toril's gods of history, so to speak) are believed able to follow a chronomancer's trail and undo any damage he has done. Finally, a chronomancer who seriously disrupts history is likely to encounter an avatar of the most directly concerned deity, a meeting which will likely result in the abrupt termination of that chronomancer's life.
Other than this, chronomancers are known to make limited, low-key trips through time in Faerun, Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica. Native chronomancers are usually devout followers of both a deity of magic (e.g., Mystra) and a deity of time or history (e.g., Deneir or Oghma), serving as historians and information collectors. Elven chronomancers of Labelas Enoreth are possible. Shou Lung, in Kara-Tur, might have a secret, officially approved group of chronomancers, probably Historians, working for the Emperor. Ancient empires such as Netheril, Raurin, Narfell, Raumathar, and Cormanthyr might have known of chronomancy or time travel, though this did not prevent their fall; these empires can be reached only through vortices or by using powerful magical devices or artifacts. Most wizards here refer to Temporal Prime as the Plane or Demiplane of Time.
Aside from human, half-elven, and elven chronomancers, rumors pass that a few hare and crane hengeyokai from Shou Lung have gained chronomancer abilities of up to the 9th level of ability. Their time travels seem motivated solely for either escaping current troubles (for hare hengeyokai) or official historical studies (for crane hengeyokai).
Possible psionic time travelers from Toril could include couatl, shedu, and titans, as well as humans and demihumans.
By this, we can conjecture that Mystra, Deneir and Oghma and their minions go after the chronomancers to preserve the canon timeline. However, now two of the three gods are gone, along with a lot of their followers, so there are less people to keep the timeline on track. And, presumably, the Spellplague has made this even more difficult. Taking a page from Krynn: the river of time has many branches at the point of the Spellplague that can't be seen from the canon timeline due to the large obstacle of the Spellplague itself.
Anyway, I just wanted to put this out there as to reasons why alternate timelines *could* be published. My overall point to all of this is that I believe Candlekeep should become more like The Force.net. Granted, we're unique in that we get a lot of visitation from Official People... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 17:53:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
One of the big discussion is whether or not 're-writing' the Spellplague goes against canon. I think this point is pretty moot because of two things:
1) Candlekeep Compendium, while a fantastic source of Realmslore is no more canon than Broken Allegiance is canon to the Star Wars universe. Unless an article is bought from the Compendium by WotC/Hasbro and officially published as a canon source, it is only speculation by fans on what 'might be' in the Realms.
2) Chronomancy and Time Travel are canon as of 2nd Edition. Yes, they haven't bothered to update the art of chronomancy for 3rd or 4th Edition, but even the FRCG lists time travel as possibility for bringing old characters into the new setting. Now, by including time travel, you have to include just about everything that goes with it: the butterfly effect, multiverses, etc. According to the Chrononmancy web enhancement (available here), it states that:
quote:
Toril has many powerful forces devoted to keeping its history intact. Elminster, Khelben Arunsun, the Seven Sisters, and many other powerful wizards have been granted certain undefined powers from Mystra, goddess of magic, to prevent all chronomantic spells from working in their vicinities. Supernatural or priestly agents of Deneir and Oghma (Toril's gods of history, so to speak) are believed able to follow a chronomancer's trail and undo any damage he has done. Finally, a chronomancer who seriously disrupts history is likely to encounter an avatar of the most directly concerned deity, a meeting which will likely result in the abrupt termination of that chronomancer's life.
Other than this, chronomancers are known to make limited, low-key trips through time in Faerun, Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica. Native chronomancers are usually devout followers of both a deity of magic (e.g., Mystra) and a deity of time or history (e.g., Deneir or Oghma), serving as historians and information collectors. Elven chronomancers of Labelas Enoreth are possible. Shou Lung, in Kara-Tur, might have a secret, officially approved group of chronomancers, probably Historians, working for the Emperor. Ancient empires such as Netheril, Raurin, Narfell, Raumathar, and Cormanthyr might have known of chronomancy or time travel, though this did not prevent their fall; these empires can be reached only through vortices or by using powerful magical devices or artifacts. Most wizards here refer to Temporal Prime as the Plane or Demiplane of Time.
Aside from human, half-elven, and elven chronomancers, rumors pass that a few hare and crane hengeyokai from Shou Lung have gained chronomancer abilities of up to the 9th level of ability. Their time travels seem motivated solely for either escaping current troubles (for hare hengeyokai) or official historical studies (for crane hengeyokai).
Possible psionic time travelers from Toril could include couatl, shedu, and titans, as well as humans and demihumans.
By this, we can conjecture that Mystra, Deneir and Oghma and their minions go after the chronomancers to preserve the canon timeline. However, now two of the three gods are gone, along with a lot of their followers, so there are less people to keep the timeline on track. And, presumably, the Spellplague has made this even more difficult. Taking a page from Krynn: the river of time has many branches at the point of the Spellplague that can't be seen from the canon timeline due to the large obstacle of the Spellplague itself.
Anyway, I just wanted to put this out there as to reasons why alternate timelines *could* be published. My overall point to all of this is that I believe Candlekeep should become more like The Force.net. Granted, we're unique in that we get a lot of visitation from Official People...
You forgot to mention a certain cave that allows time travel. It still exists in 1480 Realms. 
However I would still like to hear about the original submission guidelines? Any of the past contributors can answer that question.
Were the guidelines static? did they change based on who was submitting? Or were the guidelines an editors common sense approach to what is allowed and what is rejected?
|
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2010 : 18:11:09
|
As far as guidelines, we really never had any unless we were doing a theme issue, which we only did one or two of. And then the articles had to have something to do with the theme.
Beyond that, least for my articles, I never followed any guidelines. Hells, I created a deity and she was diffentely not canon since I merged Selune and Sehanine together to create her. Plus, many of my hooks or NPCs, were created from whatever I found interesting. Yes, sometimes I based things around canon material but I could never claim my articles didn't break canon.
Edit: Looking back through the threads on the Compendium forum, there really isn't a thread at all about what we could or could not write about. So, as I said, we never really had writing guidelines unless we did a theme issue and then that was still open ended as long as the articles were based around the theme. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 02 Apr 2010 18:18:29 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 00:17:45
|
Kuje is correct.
For those of us who worked on contributions for the Compendium, we never really had a permanent and/or established set of guidelines for submission. But that's mostly due to the fact that most scribes often discussed some or all of their potential submissions in the special chamber of Candlekeep that is reserved for Compendium chatter. It was only during those discussions that ideas and commentary about a scribe's individual submission would come up.
So I suppose a "loose" set of guidelines could be derived from that. But there was no hard and fast rules-set. We were all mainly focused on providing fun Realmslore that DMs and players alike would find interesting. Much as I suspect Matt was attempting to do with his own take on this project. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 00:24:54
|
Yeah, we really didn't have any guidelines. People stuck mostly to canon, or in that "not canon but not contradicting canon" area. My Lords of Waterdeep articles illustrate the latter: we know there were Lords that hadn't been named, so I made some up and tied them into canon where I could. Admittedly, one of my Lords being a former FedSuns Mechwarrior would be really pushing it, but that bit was an author's note for how I saw him; the (not-so-subtle) hints in the article that were aimed that way could easily be taken in other directions.
We did have a couple of articles that I would say "broke" canon by contradicting established lore, but I can only think of a couple of those. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 02:38:25
|
Sage, Kuje, Puffball, thank you very much.
The community wants, maybe I dare say needs, another compendium. I would love to see scribes articles about post-Devil Dragon Cormyr, a hidden pantheon of drow deities, or a dragonborn hatched from a Year of Lighting Storms egg . I could care less if the monster stats were 1st edition or 15th edition. As Zanan said, "Lots of blanks sheets to be filled here, if you e.g. expand on a few bits and pieces given in TGHotR."
I say make another one, host it here at the 'Keep, and wait. Worst case scenario a lawyer sends a C&D letter and a moderate has to take it off the site. And then we finally get our answer on the fansite policy. Best case scenario not a dang thing happens to the site.
Stop living in fear about a policy, stop moaning about edition this and edition that, and start writing, start creating and start sharing your stories.
P.S. And if I'm wrong and the WotC police show up at my door. I will tell them the hamster made me do it.
And remember the only guideline is use your common sense. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3253 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 02:53:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Worst case scenario a lawyer sends a C&D letter and a moderate has to take it off the site.
The Worst Case Scenario is that they shut down Candlekeep and the forums, which is why everyone is being very careful.
Don't get me wrong, I want a new Compendium. But, I understand the reasons for discretion. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 03:37:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Worst case scenario a lawyer sends a C&D letter and a moderate has to take it off the site.
The Worst Case Scenario is that they shut down Candlekeep and the forums, which is why everyone is being very careful.
Don't get me wrong, I want a new Compendium. But, I understand the reasons for discretion.
Pretty much.
Bakra, as much as I appreciate your enthusiasm [and, in fact, I share it], I'd rather we simply remain cautious about all of this. It's a gamble for the most part, but at least by maintaining such vigilance, we're better equipped to manage the fallout we can see, and ensure some of the odds still remain in our favour. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 04:21:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Worst case scenario a lawyer sends a C&D letter and a moderate has to take it off the site.
The Worst Case Scenario is that they shut down Candlekeep and the forums, which is why everyone is being very careful.
Indeed. We already exist at the sufferance of WotC. While I honestly don't think it's the case, it is theoretically possible that WotC is just looking for an excuse to close us down, and that the Compendium would be a sufficient excuse. I'm not saying it's likely, and I'm certainly not going to argue -- again! -- about whether or not, from a business standpoint, it would make sense for WotC to do this. All I'm saying is that it is theoretically possible, and that I prefer to tread softly until such time as they formally say what we can and can not do. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3253 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 04:24:05
|
| Now, all that being said, if Matt or anyone else wants to put together articles and publish them on-line elsewhere, I'd be more than willing to try and contribute and definitely download. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 03 Apr 2010 04:24:36 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 04:31:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Now, all that being said, if Matt or anyone else wants to put together articles and publish them on-line elsewhere, I'd be more than willing to try and contribute and definitely download.
I'm actually not adverse to putting my own stuff out there online, either... I just have two caveats, myself, and one of them is again waiting on a proper fansite policy from WotC.
My first caveat is the already mentioned 4E Realms thing -- but if I post lore somewhere where it's not part of a collection (such as creating a thread for it here), then that caveat does not apply.
My second caveat is that I'm waiting for Wizards to be a little more clear on what can be done on fansites. They've already pulled the "if you post it here, it's ours!" bit on their own forums, and I don't want to have my own work appropriated in such a manner. Not that I think it's likely, but the fact that they went out of their way to give themselves that option is worrisome.
It's like going into someone's house with the agreement that if you step in the door, they can punch you in the face without warning. Even if you know it's not likely to happen, them saying it to you makes you dwell on it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Apr 2010 04:33:48 |
|
|
|
Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 04:42:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Worst case scenario a lawyer sends a C&D letter and a moderate has to take it off the site.
The Worst Case Scenario is that they shut down Candlekeep and the forums, which is why everyone is being very careful.
Indeed. We already exist at the sufferance of WotC. While I honestly don't think it's the case, it is theoretically possible that WotC is just looking for an excuse to close us down, and that the Compendium would be a sufficient excuse. I'm not saying it's likely, and I'm certainly not going to argue -- again! -- about whether or not, from a business standpoint, it would make sense for WotC to do this. All I'm saying is that it is theoretically possible, and that I prefer to tread softly until such time as they formally say what we can and can not do.
Maybe this is exactly *why* we're not getting any real answers on this topic from them... they don't want to come right out and say "no fan-created material" because that makes them look like the bad guys, so they just leave sites like CK in limbo knowing that cautious administrators will do exactly what Alaundo, The Sage, and Wooly are doing... not that I'm paranoid or anything, but WotC hasn't given me any reason to be any other way in the past two years. 
At least, that's my suspicion... if Matt or anyone else can provide a theory that makes more sense, I'd love to hear it; I'm growing rather tired of my paranoid fantasies, not to mention my foundations for them... but there seems to be no end in sight on either count... *sigh* |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 03 Apr 2010 04:49:28 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 05:49:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Bakra
Worst case scenario a lawyer sends a C&D letter and a moderate has to take it off the site.
The Worst Case Scenario is that they shut down Candlekeep and the forums, which is why everyone is being very careful.
Indeed. We already exist at the sufferance of WotC. While I honestly don't think it's the case, it is theoretically possible that WotC is just looking for an excuse to close us down, and that the Compendium would be a sufficient excuse. I'm not saying it's likely, and I'm certainly not going to argue -- again! -- about whether or not, from a business standpoint, it would make sense for WotC to do this. All I'm saying is that it is theoretically possible, and that I prefer to tread softly until such time as they formally say what we can and can not do.
Exactly. I'd rather that Wizards appreciate how cautious we're being about this situation, and take special consideration of that fact, when and if any problems regarding their fan site policy and our function here, develop. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 03 Apr 2010 05:50:39 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 05:57:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm actually not adverse to putting my own stuff out there online, either... I just have two caveats, myself, and one of them is again waiting on a proper fansite policy from WotC.
Ditto.
It's the same kind of relationship I enjoyed when I helped out on some of the stuff for FFG's Midnight campaign setting. I had to be assured that any and all developments re: the few tidbits I contributed, had at least peripheral feedback from myself. Ultimately, I understood that whatever way they went with the stuff that I wrote, was their own decision. But I appreciated the opportunity that I could discuss any editorial issues FFG might have had with the stuff.
quote:
My second caveat is that I'm waiting for Wizards to be a little more clear on what can be done on fansites. They've already pulled the "if you post it here, it's ours!" bit on their own forums, and I don't want to have my own work appropriated in such a manner. Not that I think it's likely, but the fact that they went out of their way to give themselves that option is worrisome.
Which only further serves to underline how unique our position is here -- especially when we regularly enjoy frequent commentary and postings from official Lordlords, like Ed for example. The lore he posts here as part of the "Questions for Ed Greenwood" project are his own property, of course. But the fact that they're also archived here as well, creates a potential legal issue should Wizards wish to clamp down on just what we can and can't do with Ed's Realmslore.
We really need further clarification from Wizards on this, and how it affects our function here at Candlekeep.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 08:59:21
|
Just one thing that struck me all of a sudden and that is a problem with the word "edition neutral". Now, making the rules neutral is one thing (and mostly of little importance), but each edition also carried with it its own "canon". When I say I am a 1-2 ed. Realms fan I am not talking just about the rules, but also about the information given about the setting. I have as limited a knowledge about the 3ed. lore as I do about the rules of the game, so with a "neutral" Compendium there would have to be some leeway given where the lore was concerned also, if I were to be able to contribute.
In my earlier articles I tried to respect the established rules of the Realms, but I went by the 1ed. and early 2ed. setting, with choices made. The result was mostly canon if you go by the neutral in all forms definition, but completely sidetracked if the idea was a rules-neutral product with up-to-date lore.
In any form I think a Compendium/other Collection should be clear on where it stand on this issue and define the term Neutral. |
|
|
|
Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2010 : 10:20:08
|
As I understand it, 'neutral' in this context means that you can submit material from any edition (that is setting version or rules wise) provided. As for contradiction of lore, there are a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful sages lurking around here, so if anyone's not all that familiar with one edition's lore, I'm sure we can all give each other a hand with that.
Hopefully that's a vaguely useful answer. |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Candlekeep Compendium discussion...
