| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 22:26:19
|
| Who took a project away? I also think it is a bit dramatic to try and drive a wedge. I don't care whose name you slap on this, I wanted to see it continue, Kuje. |
 |
|
|
Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 22:58:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I agree with you Matt, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity you've presented for us here.
But before we give a full and warranted "go-ahead," and even before I decide whether I'd want to contribute, I want to know how any material I might write for your Compendium project, would be handled?
On top of all that, however, is my wish to discuss this with Alaundo first. Since the Candlekeep Compendium is, essentially, a mainstay of this site, I'd rather have his approval and support for the project before I, or any scribe from Candlekeep, even considered working with you on this.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Of course, Sage! :) This is by no means a way of pulling the project away. The project would be ran like any publication with all credit for those who contribute. I might even contract out a buddy of mine that does layout work for Goodman Games products to do the final.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
absolutely!
Edit: Contingent on what Alaundo and the staff here want to do. I won't even start a project like this without their blessing. I'm not here to crap on the community I have followed for years.
LOL
Kuje, dude... I think your concerns have been addressed... see quotes if you don't believe me... |
Cedric! The Cleric Generic and Master of Disguise!
ALL HAIL LORD KARSUS!!!
Vast Realmslore Archive: Get in here and download everything! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/rl
2e Realms book PDFs; grab em! - http://poleandrope.blogspot.com/2010/07/working-around-purge.html |
|
|
|
Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2010 : 23:13:32
|
I'm not sure, Capnvan, but I am beginning to see that this project is not as welcome as I had originally hoped. I have plenty of other projects to work on anyways- and I hope to start my next Realms article in the coming month or two.
If nothing else, this topic brought enough light to the subject and maybe one day the CC will be continued. I know the process revealed a lot for me.
Cheers! ...and take care. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 00:34:42
|
Yes, I will add that I'm still waiting to hear back from Alaundo on this, as I told Matt earlier. But with the Great Administrator himself being occupied with matters far beyond these halls, it may take some time for him to respond.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 00:48:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
(2) You can write on ANY era of the Forgotten Realms. I just don't want to work with alternate timelines, etc... Despite feelings for the current time-line, I would be highly insulted if someone rerouted around my work. There are plenty of Realms Authors that still write for the setting and I just don't want to go there.
What if canon lore contradicts itself? |
|
|
|
sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 02:01:26
|
like it doesnt already.......
you could go and write an adventure that was to stop Shar and Cyric from killing Mystra., of course they would fail ultimately, but they could create a way to seat a deity of magic later on. Thet would win for loosing, thus Mystra would still be dead.
I'd support it, not sure I'd anything to contribute other than my time reading it.
Its not like I have a thread dedicated to the grand temple of the Triad somewhere..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
|
|
|
Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 03:00:15
|
| I only ask because some of the changes had me wondering if I was looking at the same sourcebooks WotC was when the changes were made. The lore in question is pre-spellplague, incidentally, though not by much. |
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 12:13:47
|
| Hard to believe the animosity towards this. I hope Alaundo find sthe time to answer Sage, and I hope the Compendium does become a go in some name, way, shape or form. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 12:51:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hard to believe the animosity towards this. I hope Alaundo find sthe time to answer Sage, and I hope the Compendium does become a go in some name, way, shape or form.
I don't think it's animosity towards the project, per se. I think it's more a thing of where some people simply don't want to be part of anything that is at all related to 4E or the 4E Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 14:16:39
|
quote:
I don't think it's animosity towards the project, per se. I think it's more a thing of where some people simply don't want to be part of anything that is at all related to 4E or the 4E Realms.
My thoughts exactly. |
|
|
|
Amarel Derakanor
Seeker
97 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 14:24:54
|
Seeing a brand new Compendium would be very nice, though. No matter what 'edition' it is set in. It seems to me, that these are troubled times for Candlekeep, and for the setting itself. And while I'm certainly no fan of the many changes to the Realms, I do have an understanding for those that enjoy them. It is a sad fact that we scribes are so divided...
Says Amarel, who doesn't write many posts, but has been coming here for some years now.  |
Edited by - Amarel Derakanor on 31 Mar 2010 14:26:03 |
|
|
|
Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 15:22:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
Hard to believe the animosity towards this. I hope Alaundo find sthe time to answer Sage, and I hope the Compendium does become a go in some name, way, shape or form.
I don't think it's animosity towards the project, per se. I think it's more a thing of where some people simply don't want to be part of anything that is at all related to 4E or the 4E Realms.
And no ones forcing them to be apart of this if they don't want to. Matt is just looking for some support for further fan-based Realms material and he's taking it upon himself to attempt to shield CK in case any legal issues rise (which I highly doubt will happen).
In addition it gives us, the fans, a way to expand on that huge century gap the timejump provided OR expand on something completly different that someone might have had an idea for and to share with the community.
Even Matt has stated that it would be "edition neutral" and any game mechanics or supplemnts listed would be apart of an Index or reference in the back.
I can understand peopls animosity towards the changes and the new edition, but people shouldn't let that squash a great way for others to enjoy the Realms and create material to share. |
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 16:02:22
|
| What Diffan said. My article is set in a historical time period so it is edition neutral and definately not 4E Realms. More of these types of articles that both fill the holes in the history of the realms as well as catering to fans of all editions are what can make this great for everyone. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2010 : 19:19:37
|
Matt,
Would you still have a Folk of Faerűn section of the Compendium? I can think of a couple of PC's/NPC's that I could stat up for both Pathfinder/4E and pre-/post-Spellplague... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 00:16:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I can understand peopls animosity towards the changes and the new edition, but people shouldn't let that squash a great way for others to enjoy the Realms and create material to share.
Refusing to participate is not the same as squashing something. I for one have not spoken out against this project -- I'm just not going to be a participant.
My only reservation about the project is the name, and that's not even something set in stone. I'd object to a Candlekeep Compendium that wasn't hosted here, but if it was called just about anything else, I'd not pay attention to it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 00:21:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
What Diffan said. My article is set in a historical time period so it is edition neutral and definately not 4E Realms. More of these types of articles that both fill the holes in the history of the realms as well as catering to fans of all editions are what can make this great for everyone.
This is something I can understand... But my way of looking at something is that if my name is on it, I'm supporting it. So even if I was to write a time-neutral piece describing something that could be used anywhere or anytime (like many of my Hooks), the presence of any post-Spellplague material in the same book would make me feel that I was condoning and supporting the changes. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 01:50:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Refusing to participate is not the same as squashing something. I for one have not spoken out against this project -- I'm just not going to be a participant.
My only reservation about the project is the name, and that's not even something set in stone. I'd object to a Candlekeep Compendium that wasn't hosted here, but if it was called just about anything else, I'd not pay attention to it.
This is what my point was, but Wooly said it better then I what I was trying to say. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 01 Apr 2010 01:50:52 |
|
|
|
Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 13:37:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I can understand peopls animosity towards the changes and the new edition, but people shouldn't let that squash a great way for others to enjoy the Realms and create material to share.
Refusing to participate is not the same as squashing something. I for one have not spoken out against this project -- I'm just not going to be a participant.
My only reservation about the project is the name, and that's not even something set in stone. I'd object to a Candlekeep Compendium that wasn't hosted here, but if it was called just about anything else, I'd not pay attention to it.
I have to agree, the Candlekeep Compenduim wouldn't be a the Compendium as we know it if it was hosted on another website.
First off, don't get me wrong. I don't mean for people to abandon ship. But what if we give this project a new name? Anyone that want's to contribute is free to do so, and those that don't like it have nothing to do with it. |
|
|
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 13:47:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
What Diffan said. My article is set in a historical time period so it is edition neutral and definately not 4E Realms. More of these types of articles that both fill the holes in the history of the realms as well as catering to fans of all editions are what can make this great for everyone.
This is something I can understand... But my way of looking at something is that if my name is on it, I'm supporting it. So even if I was to write a time-neutral piece describing something that could be used anywhere or anytime (like many of my Hooks), the presence of any post-Spellplague material in the same book would make me feel that I was condoning and supporting the changes.
As far as the name is concerned (the issue you and Kuje have) I agree it wouldn't make sense to call it Candlekeep Compendium if it's not hosted by Candlekeep. For the material presented within that isn't yours but associated by having your name on the same book, well as much as I might like to convince you to not worry, your articles would be separate, no need to feel that way, etc... well that's a matter of perception, and although I and some others wouldn't perceive it as such, you and some others do/would. I don't share your view of it, but I understand it nevertheless. It's too bad cause it'd be nice to have contributions from you. No way to convince you to participate?? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
|
|
|
Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 13:56:50
|
I think it's more about boycotting the production of anything that supports the Realms right now with the intent to kill Faerun rather than see it continued. I'm not sure anything else could be gleaned from many of the responses here. Sure, it doesn't sound very diplomatic for me to put it this way, but cutting through the politics, this is the root. I, personally, only wanted to see the project continue as the Realms continue to inspire people today- regardless of what many here think. This would have been a project of love as I derive no specific benefit from taking this on other than my own satisfaction.
Good luck Candlekeep, the ride was great while it lasted- I won't argue with those who are completely closed off and unsupportive. For those still interested in Realmslore and are active, keep an eye out for articles written by many of the designers and authors here. |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 14:28:52
|
| Well, if that's what you got from my response... Good bye. |
|
|
|
Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 14:42:16
|
Who said anything about killing Faerun or the Realms? Certainly not us who don't like the changes heaped upon them.
And if we are going non-diplomatic, Matt, to this humble dwarf it rather seems as if you want to promote the way WotC runs the Realms, and not allowing any alternative views. And judged from that perspective, it looks as if you are the unsupportive one. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
|
|
|
Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 15:22:48
|
Did Matt just take his ball and go home?
This isn't about killing off a beloved product line through non-support, it is about killing off New Coke, which is exactly what the 4e Realms have become. It has the same name as the original, but really isn't the same product. Coke seemed to do just fine by bringing back the beloved Coca Cola "Classic" and maybe Wizards should think to do the same thing if they have designers that appear to be worried that a bunch of "bloggers" can kill off a product line. I am sorry that Matt feels the way he does, but the Realms really weren't WTOC's to mess with anyways, they are a creation of Ed and their continuity as a world that captivates and has believability was destroyed with the latest edition. This really is no different than my Coke analogy above or for a more gaming related example, this would be like had Tolkein written half the Rings trilogy and then sold the rights to someone who hired someone else to finish it, sure the people and places to a great extent would be the same, but the understanding of the world as a whole would be gone (and quite apparently too). |
|
|
|
Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 15:28:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
Did Matt just take his ball and go home?
This isn't about killing off a beloved product line through non-support, it is about killing off New Coke, which is exactly what the 4e Realms have become. It has the same name as the original, but really isn't the same product. Coke seemed to do just fine by bringing back the beloved Coca Cola "Classic" and maybe Wizards should think to do the same thing if they have designers that appear to be worried that a bunch of "bloggers" can kill off a product line. I am sorry that Matt feels the way he does, but the Realms really weren't WTOC's to mess with anyways, they are a creation of Ed and their continuity as a world that captivates and has believability was destroyed with the latest edition. This really is no different than my Coke analogy above or for a more gaming related example, this would be like had Tolkein written half the Rings trilogy and then sold the rights to someone who hired someone else to finish it, sure the people and places to a great extent would be the same, but the understanding of the world as a whole would be gone (and quite apparently too).
Well, not to defend new Coke, but this thread was never about killing anything, or about the 4ed. Realms. A proposition was made, people explained how they stood in relations to this product and a conclusion was drawn. For most people it has not been a matter of hating the 4ed. Realms. |
|
|
|
Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 15:34:45
|
quote:
Well, not to defend new Coke, but this thread was never about killing anything, or about the 4ed. Realms. A proposition was made, people explained how they stood in relations to this product and a conclusion was drawn. For most people it has not been a matter of hating the 4ed. Realms.
Except that Matt specifically said that quote:
I think it's more about boycotting the production of anything that supports the Realms right now with the intent to kill Faerun rather than see it continued. I'm not sure anything else could be gleaned from many of the responses here. Sure, it doesn't sound very diplomatic for me to put it this way, but cutting through the politics, this is the root.
To me he is basically saying that he is going to take his ball and go home if we don't accept New Coke. Notice that when a real professional business like Coke screws up and pisses off their customers, they quickly rectify the problem. |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 15:40:36
|
Matt,
First, I appreciate the offer you've made. I've never contriubted to the Compendium, but like you I think it's a good thing, and a shame that it's been dormant for so long. I'd also like to see it rise again in some form.
That said, I think you're over-reacting. You've gotten a good half dozen interested responses, at least, and no one has tried to kill the project, or tried to convince others not to participate. The worst you've gotten was "Well, I think maybe it should change its name." That's hardly fire-and-brimstone.
Second, and I realize as a 4e designer (I'm assuming, I don't know the 4e books so I don't know what you might have worked on) you have skin in the current edition, but is it really so hard to believe that there are people who would like to create in the "old" Realms? And is that so wrong? There hasn't been anyone trying to re-write history in a prospective CC article, just desire to set some, and by no means all, in the 1360's-70's.
I mean, I understand there are people who really like the 4e Realms, and who really want to play there and create stories there. As someone who fell in love with the old Realms, I don't exactly understand what they see in it, but I understand that they do, and I respect that. I don't jump into 4e threads and say they're worthless because they're set in the 1400's, I don't chase the users away, and I don't mock their choice. I just don't share it, and I go along making the stories I, and my gaming group, want to share. Is that respect too much to reciprocate? |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 15:48:04
|
[/quote]
To me he is basically saying that he is going to take his ball and go home if we don't accept New Coke. Notice that when a real professional business like Coke screws up and pisses off their customers, they quickly rectify the problem.
[/quote]
I remember drinking new coke. It was horrible, so horrible a lot of people stopped buying Coca Cola products. In order to save the company from tanking they went back to Coca Cola Classic. This all happened within a record amount of time.
Before we do any more Coke analogies maybe we should have this thread locked. I have better things to do then watch fellow scribes cry over spilled ink wells.
|
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
|
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 16:08:44
|
| I disagree on locking the thread, this is a topic of interest, and the discussion has been civil. We're not going to iron out these issues (and hopefully get the CC, or something like it back) if we aren't willing to talk. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 16:51:07
|
My perspective is this:
The Forgotten Realms as I knew it died. Yep, its gone.
However, this new campaign world isn't bad at all. Did it replace my Forgotten Realms? Yep, it sure did...but then I lost Greyhawk too pretty much...and Mystara, and Krynn for a while, and...well, you get the picture.
I'd be glad to write things up for this new Forgotten Realms; and don't see the problem with it. In fact, I can see writing for both without animosity toward one or the other.
That's just where I've come to be I suppose. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2010 : 17:11:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
To me he is basically saying that he is going to take his ball and go home if we don't accept New Coke. Notice that when a real professional business like Coke screws up and pisses off their customers, they quickly rectify the problem.
That's uncalled for. And entirely not polite. Let's keep things civil, and try to respect the fact that we're communicating with FR designers, eh?
And this is the first and final warning I'm going to post here about keeping this discussion civil.
While I agree with Hoondatha, that certain points about this issue need to be addressed, I'm also weary that our resident FR designers and authors who take the time to contribute here, might suddenly consider otherwise in light of some of the, at times, inappropriate commentary that has popped up here.
Keep it clean, keep it polite, and above all, respect the opinions of others. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Candlekeep Compendium discussion...
