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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 19:40:58
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I've seen a lot of official D&D pics of Drow & they range way too much in color to even be of the same race, IMO. I was wondering if anyone could explain why the pic in BG II for the PC is blue in skin color while the pic in the FRC book 3.0 is black. I've also seen purple skinned drow. Are these suppose to be different clan or subethnicities? Or are some just wrong artist interpertations? Thanks for any help.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 19:50:32
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Just as humanity has a wide variety of skin coloration, I would simply apply this to Drow as well.
Even dwarves, elves, gnomes and halflings all have different skin variations. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 20:43:41
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I've always gone by the official description of drow in the 1st and 2nd edition, in particular FOR2-Drow of the Underdark: "Drow vary in shape, features, and hair color as greatly as humans do. The only exception to this rule is their uniformly jet-black skin (the few exceptions tend to be bone-white albinos)." (emphasis my own)
In my view, the use of purple and brown in art is not related to a depiction of variant drow skin colors, but due to the fact that it's hard to do nuances and facial expressions on jet-black background. The drow uniform skin coloration is a result of the transformation that preceded the descent. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2010 : 23:46:40
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Thanks for the ideas, looking forward to hearing from anyone else on this. If you look at all drawings from TSR/WOTC it is more than just slight differences in skin tone, some of the members don't even remotely look like the same race.
Personally, I really don't care for the jet black. I think the purple and bluish tingis look better. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 00:24:51
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The jet black skin -- which some artists have had no problem with -- was official until early in the days of 3E. With 3E, they decided to change the skintone to include purple or blue, because some of their artists couldn't (or wouldn't) seem to get the skintone right. This is one of my beefs with WotC: rather than demand that paid-for artwork matched the lore, they opted to change the lore.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 00:45:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The jet black skin -- which some artists have had no problem with -- was official until early in the days of 3E. With 3E, they decided to change the skintone to include purple or blue, because some of their artists couldn't (or wouldn't) seem to get the skintone right. This is one of my beefs with WotC: rather than demand that paid-for artwork matched the lore, they opted to change the lore.
The text about the drow skin tone in the Underdark sourcebook was changed because artists supposedly couldn't draw/paint/etc ebony/obsidian skinned drow.
Rich Baker said that they only did this in one sourcebook in the last 20 or so years because the artists had a difficult time drawing drow... thus the text was changed to match the artist images. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 08:22:59
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| I always preferred the 2nd edition version. with jet-black skin. The empty eyes and huge moustaches are also a must. Non of the beardless elf thing for me thanks. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 08:35:10
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There's also Bob Salvatore's rationalization for why some people's eye colors have varied in different publications: changes in the color of the ambient lighting can affect what color the viewer sees in the pigments of an person/place/thing.
Shine blue light on someone, and you're gonna see him in a--literally--different light, than you would if you shone yellow or would-be purified white light.
Perhaps there are some sort of subtle trace chemical compounds in drow skin that do bear distinctive colors/hue, amidst the primarily black field? |
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<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 11:49:11
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
There's also Bob Salvatore's rationalization for why some people's eye colors have varied in different publications: changes in the color of the ambient lighting can affect what color the viewer sees in the pigments of an person/place/thing.
Shine blue light on someone, and you're gonna see him in a--literally--different light, than you would if you shone yellow or would-be purified white light.
Perhaps there are some sort of subtle trace chemical compounds in drow skin that do bear distinctive colors/hue, amidst the primarily black field?
Good points.
I've no real problem with drow of slightly different skintones; it actually makes sense. My only objection is the reason why the lore changed -- for me, catering to someone who could not or would not do what was expected of them is not a good reason to change the lore. Arbitrarily making that change also shows a lack of concern for continuity. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 12:13:00
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| I both agree with the fact that Drow, like other races, have various skin tones, and that the reason for the change is absurd. A blessing in disguise (adding an element of variety to drow is a blessing I guess |
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
729 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 14:41:58
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I've basically stopped following evolutions after the end of 2nd Edition, so if 3rd Ed canon now says that drow can have different skin colours, that's fine. I still stick to the jet-black, for a couple of reasons.
Whereas it's true that there is variety in other races (dwarves, halflings, humans, goblins, etc.), and therefore there must also be variety in drow skin colour, my counterargument would be that the drow are not a race of their own - they're elves, and within the elves, like other races, there are variants in skin colour. The drow's jet-black being one of them.
And second, the drow skin colour is not the product of natural evolution - it was the consequence of the Seldarine cracking down hard on the dark elves, and transforming their skin coulour, from whatever it was before the descent, to jet-black. Aside from albinos, I'd say that there's no real justicification for any skin color other than black. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2010 : 15:53:45
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Let's rememember that the 'most recently published information is canonical' thing was (like 'canon' itself) a publishing convenience: it encouraged people to buy the newest books, and simplified the job of authors' research. Rules artefacts, where the continuity is kludged for the sake of how the publisher's current rules and design principles work, are poor Realmslore, according to the Realms' design principles, and so is this rogue, admitted, art artefact. Now the frontlist treadmill has stopped moving, it's easier than ever to see this.
In the baseline Realms -- the secondary world that underlies the published materials, the flux of decades and authors and artists and rulesets -- drow skin is jet-black. |
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Sill Alias
Senior Scribe
Kazakhstan
588 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2010 : 08:18:25
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About drow skin color: it doesn't matter what hue of color it is. The brand of betrayal already wears of from what we can see in drow evolution, if it has that function. Drow are going to be lost to the elves as subrace to rise as completely different race. 
But as long there are many rare individuals, there is hope for better. |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2010 : 22:12:08
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| Thanks for the ideas. I personally do not care for the black skin. I feel the blue or purple makes for a more attractive image. |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2010 : 22:32:17
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| If I remember right, wasn't it originally a very dark brown before the Descent? Following that, they all became the black tone with white hair instead of the original black or dark red hair.(I dislike how the eyes were originally dark, too. I think it makes for a more interesting appearance if they had always been some form or red or amber and gray.) And though blue or purple might be more visually striking, I think the black was intended to make them literally "dark" as they were in outlook/morality/spirit. It's just plain more menacing! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2010 : 22:45:21
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I once loved the Drow as badguys. Their skin was actually a large part of this, they just oozed evilness.
Now they are, well...just not as useful to me as a DM for badguys.
The skin color was a nice touch...all black was good. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Fizilbert
Learned Scribe
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2010 : 23:49:37
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quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
Thanks for the ideas. I personally do not care for the black skin. I feel the blue or purple makes for a more attractive image.
The wonderful think about being a DM is you can choose whatever colour you want them to have. If canon says they have jet-black skin and you dont like that, throw it out. Say they have blue/purple skin.
Since I dont follow 3 or 4E, I never knew that they had changed the Drow. I think it's completely unacceptable that they changed them because their artists couldn't draw them. Yet one more reason why I miss the days of TSR. |
Fiz
Level 10 Vice-president
World of Elethril |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 00:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Fizilbert
quote:
Originally posted by woodwwad
Thanks for the ideas. I personally do not care for the black skin. I feel the blue or purple makes for a more attractive image.
The wonderful think about being a DM is you can choose whatever colour you want them to have. If canon says they have jet-black skin and you dont like that, throw it out. Say they have blue/purple skin.
Since I dont follow 3 or 4E, I never knew that they had changed the Drow. I think it's completely unacceptable that they changed them because their artists couldn't draw them. Yet one more reason why I miss the days of TSR.
It's not that they changed the descriptive text of the drow having jet-black skin, it's that the art-work of various products shows a range of different colors. And, this was occurring in the TSR days as well. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 19:04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
It's not that they changed the descriptive text of the drow having jet-black skin, it's that the art-work of various products shows a range of different colors. And, this was occurring in the TSR days as well.
Ashe, both Wooly and Sage mentioned that 3E did change the description in the text of the lorebooks.
I'll point out that this is another one of those evolutions of the lore that, thankfully, never got back to Bob Salvatore. His drow remain blacker than the black. 
Another possible retcon explanation is just plain make-up. Maybe some drow use a skin moisturizer or beautifying agent that adds a dash of color to the surface of the skin? (This would make especial sense for those drow rising to the surface, what with their lack of conditioning toward the sun and all.) Underneath, they could be just as jet-black as ever, while appearing brown, blue, purple, etc., to observers.
BEAST goes off to imagine a drow princess in pigtails, a leather miniskirt, and covered in glitter... |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 19:33:14
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Ashe, both Wooly and Sage mentioned that 3E did change the description in the text of the lorebooks.
Oops, that'll teach me for skimming a scroll. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2010 : 21:09:29
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if the drow hide in shadows... tehy would still stand out , as there is no black in shadows.
I dont like the black skin tone either.
varying tones works well with me.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2010 : 02:53:28
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| well the dark grey works well too |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
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Eye of Horus-Re
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2010 : 14:45:07
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| I have to say, in my game they will always be jet-black. Someone said earlier in the scroll about it being their punishment from the Seldarine. That would not allow genetic evolution or change, even if it did make the artists feel better! ;) |
Long live 1384 and that which came before....!!! |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 06:21:53
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| Definitely a cop-out on the part of artists who apparently would rather change something entirely than revel in the subtle nuances of reflected light to show detail and richness. Even a simple "green" leaf reflects blue sky and golden sunlight and might have purplish shadows---it seems to me that semi-shiny jet-black skin ("polished obsidian"?) would reflect a more noticable array of environmental colors contrasting against the black, even if it's just from ambient faerie fire, flames, even starlight (and wouldn't it be fun if some artist decided to illustrate them in infravision? ). A chance for some truly beautiful color usage in pictures. Though I suppose bluish highlights from only-blue faerie fire or starlight would probably make it look like the drow is simply dark blue....It was very disappointing to read here that canon was changed in even a single place simply to accommodate artists who couldn't figure out color/light reflection |
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Cleric Generic
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
565 Posts |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2010 : 18:20:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Cleric Generic
It's official; my next character will be a moustachioed Drow.
Pharaunetto and his little puppet Ryldochio.
"I'm a real drow!" |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Drow skin color?
