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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 16:32:40
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quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Even the 'hypothetical' discussions about old lore don't hold the same sparkle for me anymore - with 99% of the storylines tossed into the dumpster, there doesn't seem to be much of a point in discussing them.
I haven't been around to make hypothetical discussions, but I assume you refer to discussions pertaining to "they could've done this instead of Spellplague", and ""what all happened in the 104yrs between editions" etc.
That wouldn't hold sway w/me either. Rather, all of my campaigns will continue to be around the 1360-80 timeline.
My campaign was set in 1385 LONG BEFORE WotC even purchased TSR's dying remains. The time-frame is NOT what I was talking about...
Things like "Will Danillo become the next Blackstaff?", or "Will Elaith Craulnober ever be redeemed?", or "What would happened if Thay got it's poop together and presented a unified front to the rest of Faerûn?"
I could go even BIGGER and ask "What will happen to the Maztican colonies over the next decade or so? Will they unite into a new nation, or just stay bickering outposts to the countries of the east?"
All pointless queries now, which was the 'Meat & potatoes' of CK/WotC discussions IMHO.
quote:
Originally posted by Mr_Miscellany
Watch as this person, damaged, bleeding and broken, begins to wither, to stumble and to fall to the ground. Not for the physical damage wrought, but for the simple reason that so many once loyal friends this person could reach out to for nourishment have turned their backs and walked away.
If one of my friends approached me with no skin on him, bleeding and with all his insides exposed, you could bet I'd run as fast as I could the other way! 
Thats just gross! I've seen way too many Zombie/Resident Evil type movies... 
EXCELLENT post there BTW... the analogy was spectacular (and a bit confusing coming from you).
Here's my counter-argument: What if my friend approached, but my own flesh was oozing a vitriolic slime that caused him intense pain and suffering? Should I still stick around, or should I walk away so that he could heal?
The problem that persons such as myself, Mace, and Jorkens are experiencing is that we find ourselves more and more being very negative about the new lore and 4th edition, which isn't helping anyone... certainly not Candlekeep.
To be a bit cliché; "If you love something, set it free". We aren't helping the Realms by sticking around and bad-mouthing it... we are more like stalkers, infatuated with our perception of something, and following it around to the point of causing people to become uncomfortable. Better to spend our time on more constructive endeavors...
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Mr M's blog, MT and Mace's farewells, it's all adding up to the same thing that I've been feeling lately too.
So, guys, hopefully you'll pop in every once in a while to say hi and everything! May your travels be full of joy!
Like I said (and I think the others here who share my opinions feel the same way) - I'm not really leaving, so much as toning-down my participation so that others will feel more comfortable discussing the New Realms.
I will still pop-in from time to time, and post if something interests me. The thing that will change the most (for me) is the amount of free time I spend thinking about and working on the Realms, which is transparent to most of you (except, perhaps, for the maps).
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Sep 2009 16:35:03 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 16:46:43
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Mace,
I will miss seeing you around here, especially since you owe me an ale or three! I understand your feelings and many resonate with me, but I will continue to "lurk' in hopes that the old spark catches and things feel more like they did.(Hells if Star Trek can hit the reset button after 40 plus years, anything is possible!) |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 17:18:58
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@ Markustay ... being negative about the 4E Realms isn't going to antagonize the general readership of Candlekeep. Obviously, it can get a touch annoying, but on the other hand, where if not e.g. here do you actually get a chance to talk about the old Realms as compared to the new? Where if not here will you find people sharing your sentiments, thoughts and ideas about the Realms we all love? If WotC et al managed to drive you away from this bastion of FR lore, they've done far more damage to the game as such.
In that respect, leaving this board or becoming nigh-silent bystanders will ensure that the old Realms will be forgotten realms sooner rather than later. And I for one doubt that this is an option anyone on here does - deep down in their hearts - consider, despite 4E et al?!
Hence, it might be a decent enough option to ask people to flag their posts / threads with 4E and hence avoid people who are deeply upset about that to have a look. Obviously, we do have to consider that newcomers simply have no clue about the Old Realms and will want to learn more. Ain't it our obligation to teach them? Or at least show them the glory of the Old Realms? Whatever system they may play? Or, as one chap once put it:
I have been there for 30 years, mate, and will be till I pop my clogs. And 4E will not be a factor in my desire to play my games or talk to like-minded people. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 17:52:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by bladeinAmn
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Even the 'hypothetical' discussions about old lore don't hold the same sparkle for me anymore - with 99% of the storylines tossed into the dumpster, there doesn't seem to be much of a point in discussing them.
I haven't been around to make hypothetical discussions, but I assume you refer to discussions pertaining to "they could've done this instead of Spellplague", and ""what all happened in the 104yrs between editions" etc.
That wouldn't hold sway w/me either. Rather, all of my campaigns will continue to be around the 1360-80 timeline.
My campaign was set in 1385 LONG BEFORE WotC even purchased TSR's dying remains. The time-frame is NOT what I was talking about...
Things like "Will Danillo become the next Blackstaff?", or "Will Elaith Craulnober ever be redeemed?", or "What would happened if Thay got it's poop together and presented a unified front to the rest of Faerûn?"
I could go even BIGGER and ask "What will happen to the Maztican colonies over the next decade or so? Will they unite into a new nation, or just stay bickering outposts to the countries of the east?"
All pointless queries now, which was the 'Meat & potatoes' of CK/WotC discussions IMHO.
To be quite honest. This is what would make it interesting to me and be the upside of the whole edition thing. If you don't care at all about the official changes, then the peculations can really be free and creative. I still hope that I will get the energy to get more involved in this, but at the moment things seams bleak.
quote:
The problem that persons such as myself, Mace, and Jorkens are experiencing is that we find ourselves more and more being very negative about the new lore and 4th edition, which isn't helping anyone... certainly not Candlekeep.
To be a bit cliché; "If you love something, set it free". We aren't helping the Realms by sticking around and bad-mouthing it... we are more like stalkers, infatuated with our perception of something, and following it around to the point of causing people to become uncomfortable. Better to spend our time on more constructive endeavors...
Just to make it clear. My problems with new lore (or that is; any lore that went against my personal view of the Realms) is at least ten years old, and in some cases older. Giving directions about canon when asked is one thing, but to really care about something you are not going to use in your game, that's something else. I feel that my ability to contribute at Candlekeep is getting less and less, but it would be wrong for me to blame all of that on the 4ed.
And stalker would be the wrong image for me. Maybe narcissistic admiration of my own ideas and ramblings would be a better description of my insanity |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 18:21:31
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Mark, Zanan, Jorkens,
the problem with re-envisioning the Realms is, as the past has already proven, that the participation is nigh zero, and thus the creative conversations ebb down to nothing quickly. So there isn't much left to do than let it die peacefully. Plus, if we actually got such a group together and posted it here, or even collected the accumulated "new lore", it might boil down to a cease&desist... hence the reluctance of Alaundo to release a new CKC, because it was, ultimately, just such a collection. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 18:25:35
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| Well, I do not suggest rewriting what has been written, e.g. the WotSQ timeline, but write about what has not been written. Fill in the blank spaces. And there are many of those. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 18:41:28
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Health problems, and personal life put me more out of scene here on the Keep, but even without DMing (4 months without RPG, until now), I´m here every day, to read the scrolls, and see what everyone is doing (without a preocupation with the edition of the game).
And I´m very egoist with this. I´m worried with my campaigns. My personal concerning are my campaigns. So, I came to see what the creative minds of any scribe, beggining with the most novice and going to the greatest of the readers, are producing here.
In the keep I can talk about everything realsmnian, without a problemn and without concern, and can find advice from others gamers and (greatest of all) the very authors of FR, to put in use on my game table. This for me is priceless, regardless of game edition.
I´m not contributing too much this days (as I comment, health problemns - I stay hospitalized in the last week, and my wife is passing some personal problemns that I don´t want to speak now, without a serious confirmation from another doctor - cross the fingers, friends), but I still have my ideas to use in FR.
I expected to contribute more in a near future, and I expect to continue to see my old friends here in the Keep.
Heck, now I know hou the Dragonlance fans feel when the Saga System and the story of Tiamat stole a planet came.... it really cause some shakes in the ground of geek gamers...
And to finalize this aleatory post, and to mantain the metal feeling that it started, I´m going with Iron Maiden
So understand
Dont waste your time always
Searching for those wasted years
Face up... make your stand
And realise youre living in the golden years |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 18:46:14
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I don't see the need to organize a re-envisioning of the Realms and I agree that something like that would never work. I would probably not participate in such an effort myself, as I like reading other peoples ideas and I like writing my own, but I dont like to either modify or edit the same.
Ideas come by themselves, sometimes they work in a collaboration other times they do not. I would never, ever use the Realms as canon puts it forth, as this has no appeal to me at all, but once in an incredible moment I get an idea good enough to supplant the official element in my own Realms and that is what keeps it alive for me.
With the enormous amounts of material there is plenty to work from; the Vaults of Pandius has done that for The Known World/Mystara for years. Something's are minor encounters, ideas and hints others are large geographical sources. I would love to see alternative takes on both past present and future, on rules, personalities and creatures. But when I cant get myself together enough to do any of the above myself it becomes a bit meaningless. Writing and noting on my own at home is one thing, but getting my arse in front of the computer to write anything useful for other people, that's something else. And I am not sure I can blame this lack of initiative in myself on 4ed. and WotC. A comfortable chair, a book and J.Geils Band sounds to good. Even sports on TV is to good an alternative to writing at the moment.
But unfortunately the whole fan policy shamble keeps everything in uncertainty and makes all of this irrelevant.
PS. I hope things will go well with both you and your wife Moradin. |
Edited by - Jorkens on 02 Sep 2009 18:49:57 |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 02 Sep 2009 : 19:13:28
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I´m almost recovered of a severe flu (there are suspects that was the H1N1, but I receive no confirmation from the doctors) - my dwarven resilience was not sufficient and I was sended to the local temple, where the clerics tryed different kinds of potions in me. Right now, I´m back to the school (I´m a teacher) after 9 days sick at home or at hospital.
My wife received a bad and serious diagnosis after a routine medical procedure. We are making more tests and running for other doctors to collect different opinions about the case. She´s well, right now, but the new put us a little down. Right now, we´re expecting to make the last medical test.
When we have a confirmation, I will drop a line here.
Thanks, Jorkens. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 04:00:18
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two RPG stuff i collect: Dragon Mags and Forgotten Relams products
so WotC hit me with a one-two punch last year that put me down for the ten-count
doctors can't revive me i am still knocked out
so i know how most of you feel about just feeling empty when trying to post here midst the 4e FR meh
i don't have the post count that most of you have but over the last 6 or 7 years i probably equal many in lurker hours
i just wish there was a way (i know it has been discussed and decided against) that the 'Keep could have a separate pre-1385 discussion sub-forum. i would feel more "at home" there.
people can say what they want about how 4e FR just needs to be given a chance. It's not FR.
the other edition changes i could stomach because i was not FORCED to lose my PCs/NPCs and could adapt to the new rules/RSE's with my SAME GROUP of PCs/NPCs
and to finish, i need to throw a little country music lyrics from Garth Brooks' The Dance in here for y'awls:
Looking back on the memory of
The dance we shared beneath the stars above
For a moment all the world was right
How could I have known you'd ever say goodbye
And now I'm glad I didn't know
The way it all would end the way it all would go
Our lives are better left to chance
I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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bladeinAmn
Learned Scribe
199 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 05:50:59
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I wanna listen to music too!
In the tradition of good Canadian bands, how about some....Killer Dwarfs' Stand Tall lyrics:
Out of the past, our hope will last
No second best for this one
Take my hand, we will command
Fear nothing, no one
Stand tall, stick to your guns
Might make you scared but they can't make you run
Stand tall, stick to your guns
Show them what you're made of
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 20:01:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I'm sad to say its time to go
Until we meet again along the road
Remember this on your journey home,
When you hear the thunder roar youre not alone
I wish you well.
I remember saying my own farewell a while back, but the 'Keep can pull you back again. A while ago, I checked out another forum on Ptolus - it was awful and even though the setting is great I knew I'd be grinding my teeth with every thread.
The folks here are intelligent and most can write in good English (even the Americans) so given the choice of forums out there (that I've been exposed to) the 'Keep is one of the best. The problem is, as you say, what to talk about.
So in keeping with the lyric quotations, the following will suffice:
Sweet child in time, you'll see the line
The line that's drawn between, good and the bad
See the blind man, he's shooting at the world
The bullets flying and they're taking toll
If you've been bad, Lord I bet you have
And you've not been hit by flying lead
You'd better close your eyes, you bow your head
Wait for the ricochet, yeah |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2009 : 20:06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
I'm sad to say its time to go
Until we meet again along the road
Remember this on your journey home,
When you hear the thunder roar youre not alone
I wish you well.
I remember saying my own farewell a while back, but the 'Keep can pull you back again. A while ago, I checked out another forum on Ptolus - it was awful and even though the setting is great I knew I'd be grinding my teeth with every thread.
The folks here are intelligent and most can write in good English (even the Americans) so given the choice of forums out there (that I've been exposed to) the 'Keep is one of the best. The problem is, as you say, what to talk about.
So in keeping with the lyric quotations, the following will suffice:
Sweet child in time, you'll see the line
The line that's drawn between, good and the bad
See the blind man, he's shooting at the world
The bullets flying and they're taking toll
If you've been bad, Lord I bet you have
And you've not been hit by flying lead
You'd better close your eyes, you bow your head
Wait for the ricochet, yeah
Is that where I continue with a page of A-a-aah, a-a-aah....? Come on Mace if that dont convince you; how many other forums will give you a quote like that to warm you through the long fall evenings? |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 07:18:50
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| *smiles* we'll see, but pulling out this song is... bloody hell |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 08:13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
*smiles* we'll see, but pulling out this song is... bloody hell
Don't tempt me. I think that both me and Kiaransalyn can pull out enough old rock references to make it impossible for you to leave, as the curiosity about what came next would kill you.
That is until the moderators browbeat us with the Staff of Topicness of course |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 09:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That's the Staff of the Irritated Moderator +5! 
Another +1!? Oh no, this is really going to hurt. Remember to be nice to those of us of a brittle skull and a vain relationship to their hair. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 12:07:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Is that where I continue with a page of A-a-aah, a-a-aah....?
You could, but it sounds too much like the response many of us have to edition change. 
Finished with my setting, 'cos it couldn't help me with my life. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 14:46:28
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| I'm not up on my old rock songs... Can I find an appropriate Weird Al lyric, instead? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 14:59:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
That's the Staff of the Irritated Moderator +5!
Another +1!? Oh no, this is really going to hurt. Remember to be nice to those of us of a brittle skull and a vain relationship to their hair.
Actually, it's been +5 for the past several years. I bumped it up after Alaundo granted us the opportunity to become Moderators. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 15:04:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not up on my old rock songs... Can I find an appropriate Weird Al lyric, instead?
White and Nerdy or Old school Wierd Al like Another One Rides the Bus? |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2009 : 15:51:58
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not up on my old rock songs... Can I find an appropriate Weird Al lyric, instead?
White and Nerdy or Old school Wierd Al like Another One Rides the Bus?
Dunno; I've not yet looked for the appropriate lyrics. But I've got all of his non-compilation albums, and have seen him in concert three times. In fact, I've only attended two concerts with my wife, and Weird Al was one of them! The other was Flogging Molly... Oddly, there were accordians in use at both concerts! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2009 : 10:25:28
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| On topic then, I think most of you will return, I know I had two yearly pauses, and a few monthly ones, but it always grabbed me back. |
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coastiemike
Acolyte
18 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2009 : 23:48:10
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| Time for my farewells also. I didn't contribute as much as some, and lurked more than most, but have always enjoyed reading and actualyl printed ou tall of the CKC and had them bound. I tried to give 4e a real chance. I played in it for one year. I figured I owed it that much since I was a playtester for 4e and my love for the FR goes back to the grey box. But, I just don't have the enthusiasm I once had. I'm not sure what it is, but the "it" factor just isn't there any longer. So, I have packed all my FR books (and I own everything ever published) and are now tucked in my basement. I even stored away the large map consisting of 4 posters that were published in 4 dragon magazines and that I had mounted on one large board. It was an awesome sight hanging on my gameroom wall. I have moved on to Golarion and the Pathfinder world. I will drop in every once in awhile just to nose around but this is most likely my final post. Farewell all. Until swords cross. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2009 : 18:41:10
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What a pity. Soon, I will se with Alaundo to bar the gates of the Keep.
Well, good luck, coastiemike, and I will wait that you find the joy of the good rpg, don´t matter the system or the setting. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2009 : 23:53:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
<snip> I've got all of his non-compilation albums, and have seen him in concert three times. In fact, I've only attended two concerts with my wife, and Weird Al was one of them! The other was Flogging Molly... Oddly, there were accordians in use at both concerts!
 I also have all of his non-compilation albums, but I've only seen him live once, on his Running With Scissors tour, and it was an awesome show!
Back on topic...
Coastie: Good to hear that you're hanging on to your Realmslore. Some here (although I'm not sure how often they're here now) have done otherwise since the Spellplague, and I hope they don't come to regret their decision; the old lore is always useful. Heck, even some of the new lore is useful without the Spellplague. Wizbro has given me lemons, and I've chosen to make lemonade. You can't make good lemonade without a small amount of sugar, and Wizbro's lemons combined with the sugar we've seen from Paizo is enough to give me all the lemonade I could want. I have big plans for my Realms, and Golarion is involved...  ... and so is Castlemourn, but I've mentioned that elsewhere. Anyway, that's all I've got for now. To Mace, Coastie, and others who are leaving or have done so to some degree (PDK, KEJR, Markustay), keep in touch... and to Markustay, keep on mapping, whatever the world is (Golarion... Castlemourn... heck, you could even go back to Greyhawk and do a full-world map of Oerth...). |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 09 Sep 2009 23:58:01 |
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A Farewell
