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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
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Grumpyoldmage
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
 Posted - 22 May 2009 : 07:09:00
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I think there is a certain acceptability factor for attractive charecter's in the Forgotten Realms. Ed started it, and his example is an inspiration that will live on forever!
I think an excellent example of this point can be found in "Silverfall."
Just my two cents..
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Quote of Karsus - "The Elves started this when they tried to steal the Nether Scrolls. They are a culture of the past, who's idea's are as antiquated as their magic." |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2009 : 17:56:42
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| I concur. Another reason I like Kemp's work. If someone's gorgeous, they're kind of the odd person out. When I'm writing, I try to just give a description, and if the reader finds a character pretty, there ya go. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
Edited by - Arion Elenim on 24 May 2009 17:57:34 |
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Grumpyoldmage
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2009 : 20:03:32
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So Arion, your saying beauty is in the eye of the BEHOLDER??!! :P
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Quote of Karsus - "The Elves started this when they tried to steal the Nether Scrolls. They are a culture of the past, who's idea's are as antiquated as their magic." |
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Rosemary Jones
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 08:40:21
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Good discussion. I think the looks of a character should be consistent with the needs of the story. Some stories need a stunner in shiny armor to set the heroine fuming (Crypt of the Moaning Diamond).
Others just need a tall guy with amazing green eyes to send the heroine wobbling slightly off balance (City of the Dead).
And, of course, this is how the heroines see the men suddenly disrupting their lives. Somebody else in the story might see them as quite different.
I do think it is fun to play against type and, even if your hero is a looker, to make the looks less important than the personality.
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Rosemary Jones
www.rosemaryjones.com |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 17:23:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Grumpyoldmage
So Arion, your saying beauty is in the eye of the BEHOLDER??!! :P
Gah!  |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2009 : 17:24:34
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Oh, Malik's a good example of an awful, unattractive, revolting (however well-endowed) character who still manages to be likeable in some way. Ditto Drasek Riven.
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My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Antareana
Seeker
Germany
59 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 17:54:43
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while I do not have anything against "attractive" characters, I'm also annoyed by those super-perfect, model-like-looking ones. Maybe it went worse becuase I started roleplaying in online games where the soft-skinned well-rounded long-haired (and so on) thousand years old elf babe was way too common.
If it was one or two parts of the character that were outstanding (maybe a uncommonly shaped face, hair, slender arms/legs, noble built etc.)and he also had some drawbacks (being flat-chested, not muscular, fat, scarred, tiny..) we might still view him as attractive and appealing, but a lot more believeable.
This applies even more to female characters ;) |
It is all just a past and future secret
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2009 : 19:16:10
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I like the point raised about the "Eye of the Beholder" (save vs. death, ooh, disintegrated!):
I try to let my characters be judged on appearance by other people in the book itself. I just give a couple details to guide the reader's imagination (i.e., hair color, piercing eyes, impressive frame) and let the reader fill in the rest.
For instance, in Downshadow, when Araezra is described, she has a face that is "widely and fairly thought to be one of the best in all Waterdeep." That isn't me saying "she's gorgeous, and this is how"--that's just me saying that a lot of people think she looks pretty good. You might not think so (granted, you might also be nuts).
Different characters also view the same person differently. In "The Greater Treasure," Twilight is one of the most beautiful elves Yldar has ever seen, but in Depths of Madness, Liet thinks she's not necessarily beautiful, but very striking/memorable in appearance.
In a way, it's a blessing not to have major characters on the cover of your novel, because then the reader gets to fill in whatever he/she wants. Though (speaking for myself only), we authors live in constant hope of seeing the perfect image of our characters on a cover someday. Or maybe a sourcebook illustration. Or a deviant art. 
quote:
Originally posted by Antareana
while I do not have anything against "attractive" characters, I'm also annoyed by those super-perfect, model-like-looking ones. Maybe it went worse becuase I started roleplaying in online games where the soft-skinned well-rounded long-haired (and so on) thousand years old elf babe was way too common.
Video games are sort of a different issue, as they are much MORE visual, and instead of just giving you some details and letting you imagine a character's appearance, they have to sell a character immediately on appearance first, story/personality second.
Secondly, IMO, it *is* fantasy, and part of the reason you play a fantasy game is to be someone powerful, courageous, popular, and extremely attractive. That's just how the genre works. (And, to an extent, all entertainment.)
Novels actually have way more freedom there--there, the characters can look like what you (the reader) want them to look like.
Call me shallow, but I know I, for one, rarely maintain interest in a game that doesn't have attractive characters (oft-times, *hilariously* attractive characters). What can I say? I'm a heterosexual guy, thus I like looking at attractive, well-formed, preferrably scantily-clad ladies. It's just hard-wired in there.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2009 : 01:53:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Different characters also view the same person differently. In "The Greater Treasure," Twilight is one of the most beautiful elves Yldar has ever seen, but in Depths of Madness, Liet thinks she's not necessarily beautiful, but very striking/memorable in appearance.
You know, I distinctly remember that part--I liked the way you did it.
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Call me shallow, but I know I, for one, rarely maintain interest in a game that doesn't have attractive characters (oft-times, *hilariously* attractive characters). What can I say? I'm a heterosexual guy, thus I like looking at attractive, well-formed, preferrably scantily-clad ladies. It's just hard-wired in there.
Heh, even as a woman I like to play characters who wind up scantily -clad every now and then. I think its fun (and sometimes, funny). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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skychrome
Senior Scribe
713 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2009 : 21:55:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
What can I say? I'm a heterosexual guy, thus I like looking at attractive, well-formed, preferrably scantily-clad ladies. It's just hard-wired in there.
Hehe..you leave no doubt about that in Downshadow...
Apparently you also like looking at scantly-clad ladies who feel attracted by other scantly-clad ladies...
Not that I wanted to complain about that...*cough* 
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"You make an intriguing offer, one that is very tempting. It would seem that I have little alternative than to answer thusly: DISINTEGRATE!" Vaarsuvius, Order of the Stick 625 |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2009 : 22:36:34
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quote:
Originally posted by skychrome
Hehe..you leave no doubt about that in Downshadow...
Apparently you also like looking at scantly-clad ladies who feel attracted by other scantly-clad ladies...
Is that really so wrong?
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Not that I wanted to complain about that...*cough*
Exactly.
Also, I thought of more to say on this topic, but I'm going to put it in my devoted Chamber of Sages thread instead. (Toward the bottom of this page, actually.)
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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danbuter
Seeker
USA
74 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2009 : 04:29:47
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quote:
Originally posted by swifty
i know its fantasy.i know its escapist.but if theres one little problem i have with the average realms novel its the sheer number of characters who are described as being stunningly beautiful.it seems as every time a new character comes into the story[especially if there good guys]the women have perfect skin,teeth,hair,ample bosom.that last one must pee off female readers.and the men are always described as being a cross between brad pitt and HHH.good looking and huge muscles.for once it would be nice to see some leading good guys who were a bit more normal.
I personally love the fact that most characters are hot. I have to see enough fugly people in real life that I don't want them in my fantasy. |
Nothing beats the gray box!
Dan |
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Antareana
Seeker
Germany
59 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 11:36:01
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well no, there is nothing wrong with this (as long as there are some smexy men who are smitten by each other from time to time, too... *ahem*);)
the only problem (at least I do have this, but fantasy might differ a bit depending on its "owner") with that much beauty is that over-attractiveness - especially when many individuals are depicted as attractive - does make characters some sort of dull. We wouldn't have a Trojan war when all greek women were as beautiful as Helen, would we? ;)
Letting the reader decide whether or whether not he/she thinks of a person being hot by the description alone seems to be a good way of avoiding beauty-inflation. And I do like the "seeing a character through the eyes of another", too |
It is all just a past and future secret
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 15:12:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Antareana
well no, there is nothing wrong with this (as long as there are some smexy men who are smitten by each other from time to time, too... *ahem*);)
That has been known to happen, indeed, but (at least in Realms novels) it's by necessity very subtle.
Speaking for myself only, as an author, I have a responsibility to the sensibilities of my readers (a lot of whom are just completely put off by *any* non-heterosexual content [see note 1]) and also under pressure from the publisher who (rightly) wants to appeal to the 30ish percent of readers who are like that. At the same time, I feel a sort of drive to push the envelope and try and *progress* past this hang-up.
So yeah, I do GLBT stuff in my writing. However, it is rather subtle, and it's mostly just "there if you want it to be there."
You might check out my post in my Chamber of Sages thread that I alluded to above.
Cheers
[1] An anecdote about GLBT hang-ups: For instance, I picked up a lot of flak for a scene in Depths of Madness regarding two women kissing (though only one of them interpreted it as romantic)--which I think is the driving force behind a good portion of the negative reviews out there. |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 19:56:41
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| wasnt sheila kree meant to be a lesbian in sea of swords.i certainly got that impression. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 20:09:17
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Personally, I prefer it when the author only hints at the description and allows me to fill in the blanks. I also prefer when there is no picture of the main characters unless it is extremely well-done. I like the images I form in my own head, even if the character is not perfect.
In my current favorite non-realms story, one of the main characters has stringy blong hair and a pock-marked face, yet some of the women in the book just swoon over him because of his charisma - the strength of his personality.
I don't know about you guys and your scantily clad babes but I think a lot of people can find more attractive about a character than a handsome face or a tight pair of pants. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3248 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 20:39:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
Personally, I prefer it when the author only hints at the description and allows me to fill in the blanks. I also prefer when there is no picture of the main characters unless it is extremely well-done. I like the images I form in my own head, even if the character is not perfect.
In my current favorite non-realms story, one of the main characters has stringy blong hair and a pock-marked face, yet some of the women in the book just swoon over him because of his charisma - the strength of his personality.
I don't know about you guys and your scantily clad babes but I think a lot of people can find more attractive about a character than a handsome face or a tight pair of pants.
One of the reasons I think Daniel Craig makes a terrific Bond. Shows Bond isn't a 'pretty face', but that his charisma and confidence make him irresistable. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36878 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 20:41:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I don't know about you guys and your scantily clad babes but I think a lot of people can find more attractive about a character than a handsome face or a tight pair of pants.
That's true... But guys are hardwired to place greater emphasis on purely visual input. That's why there are entire industries devoted to letting guys look at women. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 20:42:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I don't know about you guys and your scantily clad babes but I think a lot of people can find more attractive about a character than a handsome face or a tight pair of pants.
Oh of course--I was just making a point (and pretty much a non-controversial one) about humans (particularly men) being drawn to visual stimulation. There's nothing shallow about that--it's just nature.
I think the most important point to be made is that there is no one thing that is equally "attractive" to everyone (if there was, every character would have it, in order to hook every reader ever).
For instance, what I personally find most attractive in a woman (which has nothing to do with breasts or tight clothes, actually--though I won't deny those are nice) may or may not have anything to do with what you, as a reader, find most attractive. I can think I'm creating characters who are sexy as hell (and they are to me), but a lot of my readers might just go "feh" and pass on to someone I didn't think of as alluring at all.
That's why I think it's better to give a couple orienting details and let the reader do your work for you. Over-description does not work--it just straight-jackets a reader. If there are lots of attractive characters in one of my novels, then that's because your mind put them there; if there aren't, that's your doing as well--that sort of thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
That's true... But guys are hardwired to place greater emphasis on purely visual input. That's why there are entire industries devoted to letting guys look at women.
Multi-billion dollar industries, to be precise.
I wonder what would happen if some enterprising adult film director happened to make the Drizzt movie . . . now *that* would change the fanbase.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 08 Jun 2009 20:46:18 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 21:06:59
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True - there are all sorts of studies that prove men are hard-wired for visual stimulation...and that's even more true in our modern society. On the other hand, women deal more in descriptions and narrative(hence that other industry that's raking in big bucks).
"That's why I think it's better to give a couple orienting details and let the reader do your work for you. Over-description does not work--it just straight-jackets a reader. If there are lots of attractive characters in one of my novels, then that's because your mind put them there; if there aren't, that's your doing as well--that sort of thing."
That's probably why I enjoy your writing more than some others... I think you have a good handle on what people like and want. Give the reader just enough to fill in the blanks and then they can make the characters in the image they want.
Truthfully, I will make the characters however I want in my head regardless of the description. I've actually had a PICTURE given to me of two characters, and I subconsciously reversed the descriptions because that better fit the way I saw them with the personalities given. (Yeah, J, you know what I'm talking about)
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Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2009 : 21:23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
On the other hand, women deal more in descriptions and narrative (hence that other industry that's raking in big bucks).
Are we talking about romance novels? Because if anyone wants to make a lot of money writing, romance is the way to go.
quote:
That's probably why I enjoy your writing more than some others... I think you have a good handle on what people like and want. Give the reader just enough to fill in the blanks and then they can make the characters in the image they want.
Thank you, Lady (it is Lady, yes?)--I am quite gratified you feel that way. 
Also, a character can be as good-looking as you please, but if she's annoying or pathetic, it's a waste of description. I think actions speak louder than words in a lot of cases, and so *describing* a character as sexy is not nearly as effective as *showing* a character doing things in a sexy way. An author needs to make the character *come across* as sexy, rather than just saying "X character was hot" and expecting the reader to roll with it.
With one of my current works-in-progress (WiPs), my wife was reading through and she stops me and says: "Erik, it's clear this character is supposed to be confident and sexy, but you're making her seem actually kind of pathetic. I'm just not seeing it." I went back in, saw that she was right, and altered the way I described the character doing things, and now it works.
quote:
Truthfully, I will make the characters however I want in my head regardless of the description. I've actually had a PICTURE given to me of two characters, and I subconsciously reversed the descriptions because that better fit the way I saw them with the personalities given.
Ha! I do that ALL THE TIME.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Grumpyoldmage
Acolyte
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2009 : 05:35:42
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quote:
That's why I think it's better to give a couple orienting details and let the reader do your work for you. Over-description does not work--it just straight-jackets a reader. If there are lots of attractive characters in one of my novels, then that's because your mind put them there; if there aren't, that's your doing as well--that sort of thing.
While I agree with this in general, I think that is one of the things I struggle with most as an amateur writer. However, I tent to make the first early description of the character the most complete. I'm all for a bit of creative flexibility with the readers interpretation, however its still a character that must be described in more that just a few generalities.
The key I think is to make the description as unique and interesting as possible. I like taking it from angles you don't see a lot in novels, perhaps starting with a smell or sound that draws you into the character performing some action. From that action, you can flow into a good description.
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Quote of Karsus - "The Elves started this when they tried to steal the Nether Scrolls. They are a culture of the past, who's idea's are as antiquated as their magic." |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2009 : 23:44:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
Are we talking about romance novels? Because if anyone wants to make a lot of money writing, romance is the way to go.
Yes, I was talking romance novels. I can't stand them myself, but it seems everyone I know is reading the darn things. I may just give up writing adventure fantasy for fun and write some of the other for profit
quote:
Ha! I do that ALL THE TIME.
Cheers
Glad to hear that I am in good company...
And yes, it's Lady - though some might argue the term  |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Sousinne
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2009 : 20:10:39
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| Oh, I always thought a novel about a devotee of Sune would make for a great romance novel. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2009 : 06:03:05
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This is an interesting topic for me, since it is something I have struggled with in my own GMing*. On one hand, I like my fiction** to be plausible and consistent, so when something is different from reality, I want it to have a clear cause***. On the other hand, attractive and/or memorable looking characters increase the fun my players and, damn it, I have during gaming.
Obviously, having every single important person be visually striking present huge problems with plausibility, as we know that in our world, things don't work that way.
I mulled it over for the longest time. I even tried for a while to fit in several 'average' looking people for every single attractive person present. I made an effort to introduce plain noble lasses, dumpy sorceresses, big-nosed swordsmen and long-lost heirs with watery eyes and a weak chin. In fact, I still do that. As long as characters have memorable visual/imaginanation 'shticks', I don't mind so much whether that 'shtick' is generally considered negative or positive.
But that still presents a problem to plausibility. Simply put, the percentage of people, even exceptionally notable people, in the real world who are remarkable in appearance is much less than the percentage in my games, no matter how I try.
I simply can't convey appearances in anything other than broad strokes if I am to maintain any pace at all during gaming and that, rightly or wrongly, leads to the familiar "flash of emerald eyes", "piercing cold-grey and knowing gaze", "glorious mane of blue-black hair" and "supple young body" substantially outnumbering occasions where a lot of wordage is spent on establishing a characteristic that differs from the norm only subtly, if at all. Those descriptions are the ones that stand out and so, they are the ones I lazily resort to using. And hell, I like visually distinct characters more than the ones that I have difficulty keeping straight in my mind.
I also admit, shamefacedly, that romantic subplots**** are a staple of my gaming and it seems to encourage players to pursue them with more vigour of the potential object of their affections is described as eye-candy.
So in this clash of artistic integrity versus juvenile fascination with the beauty of the human form, what did I do?
That's easy. I came to terms with my lack of artistic integrity. I decided that Faerun was simply peopled by much more visually striking examples of humanity than Earth. The ugly were uglier, the gorgeous were gorgeouser and the 'average' represented a much smaller set than in our world.
Why? You mean you need a 'why' here?
So did I.
I decided that:
1) In our world, different areas of the world are famous or infamous for the beauty of the inhabitants. It is no great stretch of the imagination to imagine that Chondathans (insert other Realms ethnic group) are collectively as 'beautiful' as the people of Iceland*****, for example. This accounts for some of it.
2) The Realms are not medieval in any way, shape or form. Disease is less common, nutrition is better and there are minor herblore and folk magic treatments available that are in some ways better than modern medicine. Hygiene is immesurably better. And while the things that historically made people ugly are lessened or removed, the active lifestyle is retained, so people enjoy the best of both worlds.
3) Add magic to the above and you have phenomenal health care for most people with the means, i.e. nobles, the rich, adventureres and nearly all other notable people in my games.
4) There are gods of every conceivable thing, but not of mediocrity. The Goddess of Love and Beauty has clergy that spend their time making people more beautiful, the Mistress of Disease attempts to curse people with horrible face-melting plagues, but there isn't any god making sure that people remain unmemorable and average. So the overall effect over time is to exaggerate extremes and reduce the number of median examples.
5) Many of the things that are perceived as beautiful, especially in men but in women to some degree as well, correlate rather strongly with the utility of the body as a weapon of war. Someone whose life literally depends on his body responding to his desires at the speed of thought in battle will realistically be fit, muscular and carry himself with, at the very least, precision and consciousness of his body, that might easily be mistaken for grace. Powerful adventurers of any sort, therefore, will often have phenomenally toned and limber bodies****** simply out of necessity.
*Yes, I know that's not writing. But many of the same principles apply. Shut up and listen, will'ya?
**I've decided to call the end result of gaming, that is, the story that emerges through the joint efforts of GM and players, 'fiction' and thus justify posting this here. I dare you to call me on it.
***Though that cause may never show up in play, if it has nothing to do with the matters my players are interested in pursuing.
****To be strictly accurate, sometimes the 'adventuring, questing, killing and looting' has been a subplot to a main plot that would not have been out of place in a day time soap opera. With swords. And spells. And dragons. And liches.
*****And yes, it's not a myth. Comparing the average Reykjavík nightclub with nightclubs around Europe and the US, I've concluded that I won the lottery of life when I was born here. If we crudely imagine a scale for physical attractiveness, a 7.5 on the scale in much of the rest of the world is about average, i.e. 5.0, here.
******The heaving bosoms and straining bodices, though, are not heavily represented in my Realms. Sure, sedentary noblewomen or courteseans of note might well sport them, but among active adventurers those would be about as common as they are among real world Olympic athletes. That is, not very. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2009 : 09:15:48
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quote:
I also admit, shamefacedly, that romantic subplots are a staple of my gaming and it seems to encourage players to pursue them with more vigour of the potential object of their affections is described as eye-candy.
Why shamefacedly? Roleplaying should be about playing your character, putting yourself in their "role". If one of your PC's is a character that happens to enjoy romantic, uh, adventures, then why should they be something you have to be ashamed about in roleplaying? Hell, throwing in a paternity suit or an especially manipulative woman ("leave that silly adventuring group and settle down with me... I need you more than them, etc.) and you've got no end of adventure hooks, as well as some lightness that could easily be missing in a game full of killing goblins and crawling through ancient dungeons. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2009 : 23:31:06
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Thanks for resurrecting this scroll. I thought of one other thing: it's more helpful to use terms like "beautiful" or "alluring" when you're having other characters say them. Then you get those characters' opinions, rather than yours, as the author. Not everyone is going to find the heroine gorgeous, but if you've done your job right, the reader is going to like her.
@Icelander and Sandro: There is absolutely nothing wrong with romantic subplots in your fiction/games. As long as you're comfortable and having a good time, you should do whatever the Nine Hells you want. I myself am notorious for running romantic subplots in my campaigns.
When publishing a book, it's best to consider your market. I generally try to appeal to lots of different interests--action, romance, high-octane magic, heroism, romance--partly because I think the average Realms fan wants all that goodness, but partly because the Realms is all those things to me.
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2009 : 01:41:06
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Well, when I say 'shamefacedly', I don't mean that I'm honestly ashamed of it. Let us rather say that I wryly acknowledge the fact that it is a little peccadillo I'll admit to enjoying in private, but which is likely to seem off-putting or even obscene to others. Like one enjoys the movie Evolution, auto-erotic asphyxiation or, for those into stranger thrills, stamp collections.
Come now, we can all appreciate the fact that we like to play with little imaginary men fighting imaginary monsters and that makes us a little bit weird. Now, when we add the fact that we like to act out imaginary relationships with imaginary people that are more complex than relationships we'd put up with in the real world, weeellll, let's just say that I think that noise is Freud rolling around in his grave shouting 'What did you say that tree looked like?'.
I say this without any real shame, though. The cognizant status with which I view my oddity does not bring with it any desire to change it or any regrets over its existence. But it would be a base misrepresentation to deny it entirely.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2009 : 01:58:30
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| I extends this comentary. They're all perfect with no fails at all. |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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too many good looking characters
