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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:03:06
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I am running a campaign based in Cormyr and as yet I have yet to decide on a main protagonist for the story arc. 
The campaign is set in the wake of the battle to reclaim arabel in which azoun died. Goblins are everywhere and arabel is lttle more than a frontier town rebuilding in within the shell of its former glory. So basically as written in the FRCS, well we started a bit earlier but have caught up with ourselves now. 
Now I have always been a fan of using the Zhents in previous editions of the game, but in 3rd ed red wizards seem to have been developed a lot and have significantly more presence in the area.
Apart from these obvious organisations I have pc's from algarond, sembia and the north, pc's devoted to tymora and selune, pc's who are thieves, priest, dragon shamans and even an annis hag (don't ask) 
So what organisations would make good enemies and who have significant dealings in the area? I was thinking about besheba and shar for a change, or continued plotting of the shades. 
Any thoughts?
Cheers 
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Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:26:27
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The Fire Knives.
They had a hand in creating the Alias clones with the help of Moander's clergy and other groups.
The Fire Knives were basically forgotten in 3e but they should still be around. :) There was even supposed to be a prestige class for that organization but it never saw print and it was removed from at least two sourcebooks. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:29:14
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-Zhents, Cult of the Dragon, Eldreth Veluuthra, The Iron Throne, The Fire Knives, Gongedal, Evil Clerics and their plots, Stonelands Goblins and their ilk, and last but not least the Shades. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:29:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
The Fire Knives.
They had a hand in creating the Alias clones with the help of Moander's clergy and other groups.
The Fire Knives were basically forgotten in 3e but they should still be around. :) There was even supposed to be a prestige class for that organization but it never saw print and it was removed from at least two sourcebooks.
Whats there base of operation, goals and motivation? They sound like a thieves guild, is that so? Is Moander still about? I lose track of some of these deities.  |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:35:03
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-The Fire Knives are based out of Westgate IIRC. They are somewhat detailed in The 3E Book "Lord of Darkness" and the 2E Book "Cloak and Dagger". A group of Cormyrian Nobles Assassins that were exiled from the Realm.
-With Westgate dont forget The Night Masks, led by a Manshoon Clone/Vampire. (This should bring Wooly a-running.)
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 18 Feb 2009 19:40:53 |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:40:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-The Fire Knives are based out of Westgate IIRC. They are somewhate detailed in The 3E Book "Lord of Darkness" and the 2E Book "Cloak and Dagger". A group of Cormyrian Nobles Assassins that were exiled from the Realm.
BRIMSTONE
To save me doing lots of reading now.
Does that mean they are plotting against the current regent? Do they have support in high places? Presumably some of the nobles still in suzail are related to the fire knives. |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 19:44:39
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-They would kill a Member of the Ruling Family with pleasure. They were banished from the Realm, by King Azoun IV. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 23:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Is Moander still about?
There's a nice follow-up to what Moander is up to in Powers of Faerūn; it builds on Realmslore from Volo's Guide to the Dalelands -- see the section on "Tsornyl."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2009 : 23:56:21
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Use some Cormyrian nobles. Not all of them are good guys, and some rather dislike the Crown. Not only that, but Arabel is not the most loyal of towns, anyway... And by using a noble or noble family, you might even be able to create a situation where Cormyrian authorities, eighter ignorant of the situation or disapproving of the PCs' methods, wind up as foes.
And Azoun IV has plenty of illegitimate kids running around... You could build a plot around one of them by him/herself, or by having him/her as part of or backed by a noble family. The bastard could even be backed by some other foe of the Crown, or some other combination. Maybe a noble bastard whose family wants to put him on the throne, and they're being manipulated by some other group, who just wants Alusair and mini-Azoun out of the way, and is willing to let someone else do the deed and then take the fall... |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 08:31:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Zhents, Cult of the Dragon, Eldreth Veluuthra, The Iron Throne, The Fire Knives, Gongedal, Evil Clerics and their plots, Stonelands Goblins and their ilk, and last but not least the Shades.
BRIMSTONE
It would depend on the area you focus on.
Zhents - the north of Cormyr, border areas to the Dalelands an Stonelands.
Cult of the Dragon - they are more active in Sembia actually but might have an interest in one or two dragons in Cormyr. (Edit info: There is a list of those on p. 3 of the thread I provided below.)
Eldreth Veluuthra - mostly active in and around the Hullack Forrest.
The Iron Throne - the Iron Throne is a marchandizing group active in all major trading cities of the kingdom and to a leser extend also in minor cities.
The Fire Knives - they could be thrown in anywhere, where you deal with the ruling family and the stability of the Country itself.
Gongedal - he might be a special opponent when centering your campaign around Arabel, as he once tried to establish his own kingdom centered on that very city. If you are interested in his story, simply ask.
The Shades - depends if you stick to the timeline. They definitly have an iterest in Cormyr and destroyed the twon of Tilverton, after all. So you could elaborate on those events.
And finally, you might throw in the evil cleric and his plot - using the now leaderless and scattered Stoneland Goblins and their ilk for his miscrievious ends.
Anyhow, I hope I could help sorting through all these great options a bit. If you are looking for other information on Cormyr, you might find this thread to your interest: Looking for all info on Cormyr.
Good luck gaming, Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 19 Feb 2009 16:18:04 |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 09:11:20
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Can't say I am familiar with either Gongedal or Eldreth Veluuthra. 
Where can I find more information? Or can someone provide the basics I will need to put them into the game?
Also can someone give a abridged version of events in tilverton? The infomation I have found is patchy at best. Is it covered by a novel? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 09:17:58
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Information on Gondegal can be found in the 1st and 2nd edition Campaign settings. He was later transported to Ravenloft, an idea I hate. 2ed. Cloak and Dagger is a great source (among many)on Eldreth Veluuthra, but as I am far from an expert on that organisation, there might be better sources.
The information concerning the fate of Tilverton is still sketchy and unclear as far as I know. I don't think any novels covers the subject, but then again I have more or less stopped reading anything non- Greenwoo, so I could be wrong- |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 09:34:31
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Doh.
I have lost my copy of cloak and dagger. |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 13:57:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Information on Gondegal can be found in the 1st and 2nd edition Campaign settings. He was later transported to Ravenloft, an idea I hate.
And so long as you aren't particular about which edition you're drawing information from... you'll find a little more about Gondegal in the old "Black Box" for the Ravenloft setting. If you're interested in any 3e/3.5e information on Gondegal, see the Ravenloft Gazetteer Volume II. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 14:08:56
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-I will check that out Sage.  I did not know he was in Ravenloft.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 14:20:49
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I have a very inclusive approach to the realms, if its good its in, if its 4e its out. 
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Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 16:16:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
Can't say I am familiar with either Gongedal or Eldreth Veluuthra.
Where can I find more information? Or can someone provide the basics I will need to put them into the game?
Also can someone give a abridged version of events in tilverton? The infomation I have found is patchy at best. Is it covered by a novel?
Basically the Eldreth Veluuthra are fanatics who hunt and kill all humans and half-elves in elven lands. You can read more specifics about their goals and motives in the 3.0 'Lords of Darkness' as well.
Gondegal attempted to establish a kingdom centered in the city of Arabel in northern Cormyr in 1352 DR. He was overthrown by king Azoun IV after only eight days. He is been mentioned in the 'Cormyr' sourcebook, IIRC.
The distruction of Tilverton was mentioned in the 3rd Ed. Campaing Setting. There it reads that 'the town was attacked by the Shade forces. All that is left of the town is a dark, concave space filled with shadows and flitting regions of deeper darkness.' Ed has been asked many times to elaborate on this but NDAs forbid. So we are very much left in the dark (more than literally speeking).
I believe this event has been (at least) mentioned in 'The Siege' - book II of the 'Return of the Archwizards' Trilogy. However, I have not read it myself yet. So I cannot say for sure. |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 19 Feb 2009 16:24:48 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 16:20:00
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| I would definately go with an evil Noble Family and/or a bastard of Azoun trying to grasp the crown. |
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Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 17:19:48
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| Tilverton was explained in the Return of the Archwizard novels and the short story in.... Realms of Shadow. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 19 Feb 2009 17:20:39 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 18:09:44
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However, it's current fate is yet-unknown.
At the end of 3e it was being rebuilt "a few miles away from the original site", but all my inquiries to 'official sources' as to which direction it lie in were never answered. Also, Brian James said he specifically included 'New Tilverton' on his 4e map of Cormyr, but then it was deleted by "the powers that be" before the article saw publication... without any explanation.
So, obviously someone doesn't want Tilverton around anymore - my guess would be the guy who destroyed it in the first place (and I'm not talking about the Shades here... just their 'cheerleader'). However, without any official response either-way (and even Brian doesn't know, last time I checked), its one of the many 'wonderful' aspects of 4e lore that is left entirely up to the DM to figure it out. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2009 18:11:22 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 20:13:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I would definately go with an evil Noble Family and/or a bastard of Azoun trying to grasp the crown.
-Maybe have the "Bastard" be the NPC that the PC's are working with. You gotta love PC red herrings.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:23:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I would definately go with an evil Noble Family and/or a bastard of Azoun trying to grasp the crown.
-Maybe have the "Bastard" be the NPC that the PC's are working with. You gotta love PC red herrings.
BRIMSTONE
Why not go all the way and make a PC the bastard? Then the nobles can try to get the PC into the wrong place at the wrong time so they are forced to go head to head with the regent or be executed as a traitor.
Make the PC's victims of their own success |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:29:55
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Interesting story-arc forming here. I like the idea of a bastard (or rather, a decendent of a bastard) making a a claim - perhaps even somewhat legitimate - and getting 'outside powers' to help him get 'his' throne.
He would need GREAT magical backing as well, because the War Wizards are the #1 reason no 'evil organization' or plot last very long in Cormyr.
Thay is too obvious, and the Zhents are over-used in the region. The Iron Throne seems like the best bet, especially given that there isn't a lot of info about who's really behind them (unless I missed something), and they do have a 'score to settle' with Cormyr.
Depending on the time period involved (what year are you playing in?), it could be a resurgence of the Iron Throne, or evan a new group using the old name, and hiring both Zhentish Mercs and disenfranchised Red Wizards!
Whatever you do, you need some POWERFUL magical backing, to cloak the activities from the War Wizards. I'd say Shade and Sembia... but I'm so sick of Shar's hand in everything. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2009 21:32:31 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:30:32
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I thought of another fun twist. Again, going with the bastard and evil nobles idea... If any of the PCs are Cormyrian, then that PC (or PCs) can be friends with a younger son (or daughter, I suppose) of that noble family. Said son or daughter is a good person and is loyal to the crown, but the family is conspiring against the crown! You get some good potential for roleplaying here, particularly with divided loyalties going on -- both of the PC(s) towards the noble friend, and the noble kid who doesn't want his family to succeed, but doesn't want to harm them, either.
Or be really evil with it -- the PC is the noble son, and his family is bad! |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 19 Feb 2009 21:31:31 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:36:34
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Ohhhhhh... I like it!
The 'heir' isn't really the one behind the plot at all - in fact, he wouldn't even go along with the plan if he knew. The whole idea is to set-up a series of events where he gets placed on the throne, without him - or anyone else for that matter - realizing it was all a set-up.
Then the 'Clandestine Group' activates the amulet he was given as a child... and WHAM!!! Instant 'puppet king'.
Me like.
All kinds of potential for PCs believing the wrong party(ies) are 'guilty', and the DM can have them chasing shadows for weeks - even suspecting each-other at some point. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Feb 2009 21:37:43 |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:44:39
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So the big question seems to be who is behind this ingenious plot?
Zhents, Thay, Shar or something much more interesting and devious?
Which God, Organisation or Greater Evil might profit from chaos of discovery or a puppet king senario? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 22:57:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Gondegal attempted to establish a kingdom centered in the city of Arabel in northern Cormyr in 1352 DR. He was overthrown by king Azoun IV after only eight days. He is been mentioned in the 'Cormyr' sourcebook, IIRC.
There was also some new Gondegal tidbits revealed in Grand History as well.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 23:37:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
So the big question seems to be who is behind this ingenious plot?
Zhents, Thay, Shar or something much more interesting and devious?
Which God, Organisation or Greater Evil might profit from chaos of discovery or a puppet king senario?
The thing is, it doesn't have to be anyone outside one or two noble families. It could be, but doesn't have to be. I'd avoid the Zhents and Thay as being too obvious, and for the love of Lurue, Shar has got her hands in enough evil plots in the official Realms, as it is.
I'd go with one of the other shadowy groups mentioned. The Iron Throne might work, and the Fire Knives are a great choice. I think the Eldreth Veluuthra might be a fun choice, too -- the elves once controlled all the lands now belonging to Cormyr, so a particularly ambitious (or crazy!) member or faction of the Victorious Blade might want to destabilize the kingdom as the first step in getting rid of humans in the area.
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler. |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 09:34:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The thing is, it doesn't have to be anyone outside one or two noble families. It could be, but doesn't have to be. I'd avoid the Zhents and Thay as being too obvious, and for the love of Lurue, Shar has got her hands in enough evil plots in the official Realms, as it is.
I'd go with one of the other shadowy groups mentioned. The Iron Throne might work, and the Fire Knives are a great choice. I think the Eldreth Veluuthra might be a fun choice, too -- the elves once controlled all the lands now belonging to Cormyr, so a particularly ambitious (or crazy!) member or faction of the Victorious Blade might want to destabilize the kingdom as the first step in getting rid of humans in the area.
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler.
Yeah I agree that Zhents and Thay are out, currently have a seperate plot which looks like it will lead the pc's to the doors of Thay. And on of the pc's is a devout follower of Selune so Shar is bound to pop up in this scenario.
Do the Fire Knives have the resources needed to pull off this kind off coup under the noses of so many powerful wizards? Surely they will need some backup in this.
Could a political alliance with Sembia help?
Would another nation want to get involved in this power play? Or am I back to looking for a non-obvious God again? |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 14:33:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigs13
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The thing is, it doesn't have to be anyone outside one or two noble families. It could be, but doesn't have to be. I'd avoid the Zhents and Thay as being too obvious, and for the love of Lurue, Shar has got her hands in enough evil plots in the official Realms, as it is.
I'd go with one of the other shadowy groups mentioned. The Iron Throne might work, and the Fire Knives are a great choice. I think the Eldreth Veluuthra might be a fun choice, too -- the elves once controlled all the lands now belonging to Cormyr, so a particularly ambitious (or crazy!) member or faction of the Victorious Blade might want to destabilize the kingdom as the first step in getting rid of humans in the area.
It might be pushing it, but you could even make the main bad guy be a descendant of Thauglorimorgorus, the original Purple Dragon who ruled this land before the elves. Maybe the main baddie wants to destabilize things enough to put himself or his own puppet in charge, returning the land to the control of someone descended from the first ruler.
Yeah I agree that Zhents and Thay are out, currently have a seperate plot which looks like it will lead the pc's to the doors of Thay. And on of the pc's is a devout follower of Selune so Shar is bound to pop up in this scenario.
Do the Fire Knives have the resources needed to pull off this kind off coup under the noses of so many powerful wizards? Surely they will need some backup in this.
Could a political alliance with Sembia help?
Would another nation want to get involved in this power play? Or am I back to looking for a non-obvious God again?
I don't think any nation would get involved, though members of a nation would. Sembia is a good choice, if you want the outside help. A wealthy noble family or a group of wealthy nobles works too, and as I've been saying, I think offers a lot more potential. |
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Nerfed2Hell
Senior Scribe
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 15:45:18
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The last "evil organization" I used within Cormyr's borders was a simple (albeit sinister) moneylender (human Expert 11) and his two collection agents (half-orc Barbarian 14 and human Fighter 14). The party seemed a little disheartened when they realized the main evil guy was a pathetic NPC of no real power, and they shut him down and ran him off... and ended up in Hillsfar to plot revenge from afar. Money can buy a lot of revenge, and this guy had swindled himself into a lot of money over the years before they got to him. His revenge started out with putting a hit out on one on PC's family and kidnapping another's only living relative (his daughter) to ransom for an amount of gold he calculated he would no longer be able to collect from people in Cormyr who owed him. Then there was this paladin in the group, so the moneylender hired himself a wizard to summon devils to rain a little hellfire and destruction on the paladin's temple just to show he was serious about debt collection.
The big evil organizations of the Realms are nice to fall back on, but there's so much you can do with even the simplest of organizations. |
Some people are like a slinky... not good for much, but when you push them down the stairs, it makes you smile. |
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Evil Organisations in Cormyr
