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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 16:23:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And I'm really &*&$^%$&@ing tired of being told I'm wrong for wanting people to make intelligent decisions, not knee-jerk reactions! 
And now I'm done with this thread. I can't deal with this crap any more.
Gooooooooooooooood! let your anger flow through youuuuu! feel how powerful it makes you! use your anger as a weapon! the Jedi (err... WotC) are hypocrites and live a life of unrealistic expectations, and cast aside all who oppose them! come to the Dark Side!!!! (err... Paizo boards!  )
The Force is strong in this one 
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A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 16:37:27
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Well Mark,
You're preaching to the choir there. I know all that. :) I've followed what went on with the OGL and D20 license and GSL for the last nine years. The d20 license had the same clause in it about shutting things down. Remember the fury over the Book of Erotic Fantasy? Wizards made them destroy their first printing because it was going to be under the D20 license. Then, the company went OGL instead and was allowed to release it.
Shrug. As I said, preaching to the choir there, least for me. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2009 : 17:31:29
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I think it's a little paranoid to say that WotC would immediately shut down all other companies, and they would get a legal case on their hands because a contract cannot be that one-sided and hold up in court.
Furthermore, I don't think they are quite that malicious in their practices. They haven't done anything to suggest that they would shut down everything that opposes them. If that were the case, CK would have been shut down a long time ago.
I think WotC is out to make a profit, but they probably know that they would lose their fans if they were to become utterly tyrannical about IP enforcement. Without sites like CK that promote creative reconceptualizing and sharing of ideas, D&D would immensely shrink in popularity, and WotC's reputation and profit margins with it. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 00:35:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And now I'm done with this thread. I can't deal with this crap any more.
Sorry, Wooly. I've come to an epiphany over the last couple of days. I've realized that a lot of my anger seems to come up when I read the WotC boards. Unfortunately, I tend to go back and forth between here and there, and so my blood gets boilin' from there and spills over to here. Re: Ema's site, it just felt a little more personal to me than usual since I've been a huge fan of his sheets for years.
I apologize, I know that it was a business decision for the Cease & Desist and Ema did take the site down on his own. Wasbro isn't evil, but they are looking at the bottom line a little too much these days, IMHO.
Finally, I just wanted to say that this thread's got nothing on what's going on at the Wizard's forums: emass-web.com Cease and Desist?. The thread there is where most of my dark emotions came from over this since there seemed to be a lot of people (on both sides) screaming "facts" in the usual internet-savvy manner.
-Yeah Ashe getting banned from the WotC Forums was a good thing for me.  No offence, but thanks LK/Dag for setting me free. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 14:59:48
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
[brFurthermore, I don't think they are quite that malicious in their practices. They haven't done anything to suggest that they would shut down everything that opposes them. If that were the case, CK would have been shut down a long time ago.
Not so...
There are only three instances I KNOW OF wherein WotC shut-down websites - Ema, Sarbreenar, and another just before Sarbreenar with similar problems (using the FR IP).
In EVERY SINGLE CASE, those sites were CHARGING for materials. Ema's case was sligtly different in that his mistake was using 4e stuff, whereas the other two were using FR stuff. It doesn't really matter, though - in the end, all three KNOWN CASES were shut down for using WotC poroperty that WAS NOT open-source and charging for it.
Those are TWO criteria that must be met - CK does NOT charge for anything. BOTH criteria must be met for WotC to set their legal hounds upon you.
AS for all the other 3e sites out there - the majority of them are setting-free, so as long as they stay OGL, they have no worries either.
HOWEVER, once a fansite policy is made public, WotC is obligated to go after every single site that doesn't conform to the rules of the policy (otherwise it becomes a 'rope of sand'). That means the policy would have to allow for sites like CK to use the FR IP (HIGHLY unlikely - that sets a legal precedent), or tell them all to 'cease and desist'.
Thats why they haven't released one yet - thats Pandora's Box right there.
Where no legal document exists, they can take each website on a case-by-case basis, which works out much better for them - sites like CK actually help grow the IP, so its counter-productive for them to go after us (not to mention they occasionally get some talent from here).
And as for Ema taking down everything on his site - thats probably temporary. Every time I was banned by WotC I got 'spiteful' and took down all my maps at DevinatART. It was childish to do so - I don't make them for WotC, I do it for the community, and the only ones I was hurting were fellow FR enthusiasts.
I'm sure Ema will be back, and if he''s smart, he'll make the whole thing PF-compatible.
Thats the real future right there. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 17:20:17 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 06:13:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm sure Ema will be back, and if he''s smart, he'll make the whole thing PF-compatible.
Thats the real future right there.
Alas, I had posed the question of PF-compatible sheets to Ema about six or seven months ago, but he wasn't looking at doing anything with Pathfinder since he and his group were enjoying 4th Edition and weren't considering Pathfinder at all.
Now, I don't know if any of this has changed anything... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 19:48:01
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Well... the Sarbreenar group - which was a rather large chunk of D&D's UK audience - all up-and-left D&D behind, supposedly 'forever', and want nothing to do with any WotC product.
And THAT after years of being dedicated FR fans, and running the official Living City campaign in the UK.
Amazing how quickly one 'Cease & Desist" can change so many minds about a thing.
I personally don't care what system Ema choses to play - and if his group was enjoying 4e more power to them - but he shouldn't stop supporting the community the way he was - a lot of people depend on fan material, ESPECIALLY in this new age of "Less is More".
He's not hurting them at all - in fact 'bouncing back' and staying 3e would be the best possible way of 'getting even', not by "going quietly into the night". |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 17:21:29 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 21:16:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well... the Sarbreenar group - which was a rather large chunk of D&D's UK audience - all up-and-left D&D behind, supposedly 'forever', and want nothing to do with any WotC product.
And THAT after years of being dedicated FR fans, and running the official Living City campaign in the UK.
Amzaing how quickly one 'Cease & Desist" can change so many minds about a thing.
I personally don't care what system Ena choses to play - and if his group was enjoying 4e more power to them - but he shouldn't stop supporting the community the way he was - a lot of people depend on fan material, ESPECIALLY in this new age of "Less is More".
He's not hurting them at all - in fact 'bouncing back' and staying 3e would be the best possible way of 'getting even', not by "going quietly into the night".
Yep... I almost followed these UK-boys to the hills when they Spellplagued Raven's Bluff. I guess I stayed out of faith that nothing similar would ever happen to the Realms as a whole. How foolish I was.  |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 22:49:22
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Ikki, I don't think you can base your assumptions on how many people regularly post on the WoTC boards -- most of the D&D fans I know (who have been devoted customers for 15+ years) *never* even visit there. In fact, I think I'm the only one (out of the 50 or so gamers I know) who has time to post regularly on RPG forums.
There's one really interesting Poll on the EnWorld, though. Now, as far 4E goes, I've thought EnWorld may be a bit too "4E-friendly" for any polls to project an accurate result on any "edition vs. edition"-type of topic. Although I think the poll conducted on "Will you switch to 4E?" last year (at least based on my own observations) was probably more or less accurate (about 80% intending to buy 4E stuff) on how the gamers felt. Anyway, the poll I'm talking about is about "Are you still playing 4E?" (or something along that line), and the most interesting thing is that since last I took a look at the results, about 60% of the voters (out of about 1300 voters or so?) seemed to have tried and quit 4E. Even if the results were "skewed" one way or the other (and note that as far as the posters go, EnWorld has been a *very* 4E-friendly forum so far), it's a disturbing sign that may (or may not) indicate that 4E won't do very well this year. I guess we'll be all the wiser in a year or so. |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
Edited by - Asgetrion on 15 Feb 2009 22:49:58 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:19:14
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while half of me is shouting with joy, the other half sheds a tear that one more 'trope' of my youth will soon disappear.
"They tore down paradise, and put-up a parking lot" 
I never wanted to see D&D come to an end as a hobby, and I hate myself for that spitful glee I'm deriving from each of 4e's failures. Its childish, and I'm pathetic... and I have to ask myself:
At what cost victory?
Video-games will NEVER re-capture the feel one gets by getting together with a group of friends with some 'funny dice', and books, and Doritoes and having a great time together. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 17:23:56 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2009 : 21:33:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
while half of me is shouting with joy, the other half sheds a tear that one more 'trope' of my youth will soon disappear.
"They tore down paradise, and put-up a parking lot"
I never wanted to see D&D come to an end as a hobby, and I hate myself for that spitful glee I'm deriving from each of 4e's failures. Its childish, and I'm pathetic... and I have to ask myself:
At what cost victory?
Video-games will NEVER re-capture the feel one gets by getting together with a group of friends with some 'funny dice', and books, and doritoes and having a great time together.
Neither will a download have the soul of vinyl, but I digress.
The game was originally intended for a small group of another hobby (wargamers) and P&P gamers are now a small group among the role players. This needn't be that much of a problem. Something near to the old D&D can always be found and without the need to increase the market at all times a greater stability is possible.
D&D may be the most popular game, but how many other games has been changed, messed with and re imagined to the degree of that label? There is little similarity between the game now and then. The end of D&D as a hobby I cant see, unless we are talking about the name. Castle and Crusades, OSRIC and other versions can be found for the older editions and the same will happen with 3ed. And then there are all the other systems. One can talk about the need of everything to change, but strangely enough there are always some weirdoes (like me) who prefer things the way they were and because of that there will always be a version of the game in one form or another. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 03:09:03
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Hmmm... That is very interesting, to me.
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
another cease and desist letter from Wizards. see the link below
http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/wotc-on-the-fansite-closing-warpath/
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 04:20:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Hmmm... That is very interesting, to me.
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
another cease and desist letter from Wizards. see the link below
http://mxyzplk.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/wotc-on-the-fansite-closing-warpath/
-You can say that again. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 05:10:45
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Ah well, 4EPowercards did reprint the powers in totality from the books, so it's understandable. Still don't like it though. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 05:14:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Ah well, 4EPowercards did reprint the powers in totality from the books, so it's understandable. Still don't like it though.
I have a feeling we will all keep saying "it's understandable" as WotC shuts down more sites. I suppose two doesn't make a trend, but the circumstances on this one are a little harder to understand than the last one. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 07:17:29
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Cross posting this in the other thread about the GSL.
"The fansite policy is being worked on. I was in a planning meeting today and it was being discussed and appropriately prioritized. I have read the draft and my personal opinion is that it looks very good. These will be guidelines and not a treatise on IP law. The fan site policy will not be a replacement for legal advice or common sense.
The web site in question had approximately 1825 full text power card entries. Of those 1 was a homebrew power. It also used Player's Handbook trade dress and the Dungeons & Dragons logo. The GSL does not allow for this type of use. FWIW, I saw this site for the first time on January 5th.
As I said in the Ema's post this is not a war on fansites. We appreciate fansites that respect our IP and support our business, ENWorld is a fine example of this type of websites. WotC has a great relationship with Russ and we sincerely value this community's support and patronage.
Scott Rouse
SR. Brand Manager - Dungeons & Dragons
Wizards of the Coast" |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 20 Feb 2009 07:17:56 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 12:14:38
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| I agree on the fact that if the site is/was supplying full descriptions of powers from the Player's Handbook and Martial Power, then WotC are in the right for having it shut down. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 13:21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Cross posting this in the other thread about the GSL.
"The fansite policy is being worked on. I was in a planning meeting today and it was being discussed and appropriately prioritized. I have read the draft and my personal opinion is that it looks very good. These will be guidelines and not a treatise on IP law. The fan site policy will not be a replacement for legal advice or common sense.
The web site in question had approximately 1825 full text power card entries. Of those 1 was a homebrew power. It also used Player's Handbook trade dress and the Dungeons & Dragons logo. The GSL does not allow for this type of use. FWIW, I saw this site for the first time on January 5th.
As I said in the Ema's post this is not a war on fansites. We appreciate fansites that respect our IP and support our business, ENWorld is a fine example of this type of websites. WotC has a great relationship with Russ and we sincerely value this community's support and patronage.
Scott Rouse
SR. Brand Manager - Dungeons & Dragons
Wizards of the Coast"
Okay, now I'm starting to wonder how many sites out there are doing things that are blatantly and obviously illegal. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 14:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Okay, now I'm starting to wonder how many sites out there are doing things that are blatantly and obviously illegal.
The problem is that WotC had no real solution for 4th Edition Powers when they came out of the gate. The set-up for powers screamed for a card-based mechanic to keep track of them, and fans answered by creating their own versions. WotC wanted, IMO, to avoid releasing cards to avoid backlash that they were moving D&D to Magic: The Gathering (which is understandable), so they put off publishing anything of the sort. Now they are ramping up to selling their own power cards (coming out 3/2009), so they need to insure their market. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 14:19:38
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-IIRC WotC was going to make Power Cards since August of Last Year. I know I have heard about them before on the WotC Site.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 15:33:48
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| The Character Record Sheets product came with some cards that you had to fill out yourself (along with the sheet already supplied in the PH, as well as the amazing LANDSCAPE format of it LOL) |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 20 Feb 2009 : 18:24:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-IIRC WotC was going to make Power Cards since August of Last Year. I know I have heard about them before on the WotC Site.
BRIMSTONE
That may be true. I haven't been following it as much.
It still seems strange that they didn't have the cards ready to publish right after the Core Books. You'd think that would've been #2 on the list of sure-fire money-makers! Why wait over six months to do it?
BTW, I've done a self-imposed exile of the WotC boards for the last week or so, Brimmy. I have to say, I'm a much calmer person this past week in regards to discussions on D&D. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2009 : 17:36:01
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As much as I'd like to once-again break-out the torches and pitchforks, this is becoming a witch-hunt.
NOTHING about 4e is open source! What part of that don't these people understand? True, we have been spoiled by nine years of 'gaming paradise', wherein everyone was allowed to contribute to the 'greater good'.
But thats gone now... at least with D&D. You want those 'good times' back? Stick with OGL/D20/3e (ANY version)!
Don't re-produce someone else's property and then cry about it. They never gave it away (unlike 3e), and most folks are acting like 'spoiled children' now that we have had a taste of what freedom was like.
You have a choice - do what you want with 3e, or don't do anything at all. 4e is completely off-limits for everyone who isn't under Hasbro's umbrella.
To me, this is akin to your freind lending you his car, and then when you take it again a few weeks later - without permission - you get mad that he reports it stolen.
Stay away from 4e people - it's poison, plain and simple. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2009 17:37:11 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 13:06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
As much as I'd like to once-again break-out the torches and pitchforks, this is becoming a witch-hunt.
WotC turned me into a NEWT!
I got better  |
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Ikki
Seeker
Finland
57 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 15:03:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Ikki, I don't think you can base your assumptions on how many people regularly post on the WoTC boards -- most of the D&D fans I know (who have been devoted customers for 15+ years) *never* even visit there. In fact, I think I'm the only one (out of the 50 or so gamers I know) who has time to post regularly on RPG forums.
I know that quite well, very few do visit.
Which is what my numbers are based upon. One does not pay for content on a website one does not visit in the first place at all!!!
Note that was all about ordering the DDI content.
quote:
There's one really interesting Poll on the EnWorld, though. Now, as far 4E goes, I've thought EnWorld may be a bit too "4E-friendly" for any polls to project an accurate result on any "edition vs. edition"-type of topic. Although I think the poll conducted on "Will you switch to 4E?" last year (at least based on my own observations) was probably more or less accurate (about 80% intending to buy 4E stuff) on how the gamers felt. Anyway, the poll I'm talking about is about "Are you still playing 4E?" (or something along that line), and the most interesting thing is that since last I took a look at the results, about 60% of the voters (out of about 1300 voters or so?) seemed to have tried and quit 4E. Even if the results were "skewed" one way or the other (and note that as far as the posters go, EnWorld has been a *very* 4E-friendly forum so far), it's a disturbing sign that may (or may not) indicate that 4E won't do very well this year. I guess we'll be all the wiser in a year or so.
As ive been observing in the gameshops too. 3e had several shelves and stuff placed prominently... 4e is hidden away between blue planet and runequest (new edition)... and evidently seeing about as much customers as either.
Vampire/werewolf etc are evidently the sellers.. althought that too would seem to primarliy concern the old edition.
It is telling since this is the only retailer in the whole country, with shops in all the major cities... and this is their "flagship" shop.
I probly could get an short interview of sorts, they have always been quite friendly about such. But the product placing is, if not telling, atleast damning.
This in turn, about the actual books.
ps: noticed you are from finland aswell :P And know what fantsu is.. and where the 4e d&d stuff is hidden away :P |
Edited by - Ikki on 25 Feb 2009 15:10:10 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2009 : 16:33:11
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quote:
Originally posted by MarkustayTo me, this is akin to your freind lending you his car, and then when you take it again a few weeks later - without permission - you get mad that he reports it stolen.
I think I know that guy  |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 17:05:19
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'Dungeons and Dragons' game handbooks the subject of lawsuits
By TIM KLASS The Associated Press
Updated: 06/18/2009 09:20:18 AM EDT
SEATTLE - Dungeons & Dragons & lawyers, oh my - eight people face accusations they illegally posted the pioneering role-playing game's newest handbook for download on the Internet.
Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro Inc., is seeking unspecified damages in three copyright infringement lawsuits naming a total of eight defendants in U.S. District Court in Seattle.
More than 2,600 copes of "Player's Handbook 2," released March 17 with a suggested retail price of $39.95 a copy, were downloaded from Scribd.com, and more than 4,200 copies were viewed online before the material was pulled from the document-sharing site at Wizards' request, according to two of the lawsuits.
One of those cases, which names as defendants Thomas Patrick Nolan of Milton, Florida, and Stefan Osmena of the Philippines, is headed for mediation, according to a court filing Tuesday.
Another case is against Mike Becker of Bartlesville, Oklahoma, and Arthur Le of San Jose, California.
The third, filed against Krysztof Radzikowski of Poland and three people whose identities remain unknown, did not cite any numbers but asserted that unauthorized copies of that handbook and "Manual of the Planes," ''Open Grave: Secrets of the Undead" and "Dungeon Delve," each retailing for $29.95, also were found on document-sharing Web sites.
Tolena Thorburn, a Wizards spokeswoman, would not give the home towns or other personal or contact information for Osmena or Radzikowski.
Dungeons & Dragons, created in 1974 and described in the lawsuit as "the first role-playing game," involves the use of pen, paper and dice to create imaginary characters of varying attributes and randomly determined levels of skill as players search for treasure and battle monsters in magical lands.
According to the lawsuits, all filed on April 6, about 20 million people worldwide are believe to have played the game, including 6 million at present.
The handbook, which includes 242 pages of rules, and manuals sold online bear electronic watermarks that restrict use of copyright material to a specific buyer or user.
Nolan, denying that he uploaded the handbook for public access or committed other wrongdoing, wrote personally to the court on May 20 that he lost his wallet with material showing his Web site usernames and passwords on a trip to Michigan in February.
"Any person who looked at my Scribd page could tell that I was an avid Dungeons & Dragons player and could use the page to post the file," he added.
Nolan, representing himself in the case, and Wizards have agreed to submit their dispute to mediation and to allow Osmena to be included in the mediation effort if he is formally served with the lawsuit by Dec. 4, according to the most recent filing.
According to the lawsuit against Becker, he was identified through investigation as "Humble Apostle," owner of another Scribd Web page from which the handbook was viewed and downloaded by hundreds of people. There was no telephone listing for Becker in Bartlesville.
A micro-watermark indicated that the copy on the "Humble Apostle" site belonged to Le, who described himself in a letter to the court on May 11 as a 19-year-old unemployed student at Mission College in Santa Clara, California, whose parents recently were laid off.
Le acknowledged that he bought a copy of the handbook online but denied any association with Becker.
"I have made no profit off of this venture," he added. "I, however, deeply apologize for my actions and realize that I am in the wrong." |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Jun 2009 17:05:59 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36876 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 17:24:31
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| So, eight people with brand new stuff are the reason the rest of us can't legally obtain digital copies of older stuff... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2009 : 20:04:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Dungeons & Dragons, created in 1974 and described in the lawsuit as "the first role-playing game," involves the use of pen, paper and dice to create imaginary characters of varying attributes and randomly determined levels of skill as players search for treasure and battle monsters in magical lands.
Accent, mine.
Well, at least I'm glad to see that they are admitting that 4e is entirely based on encounters and contains no rules for anything even resembling 'roleplay'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wizards has shut down a character sheet site.
