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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 17:48:17
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
As it stands, the core 4E experience and its hard wired elements trump any setting consideration. If I were to run a 4E campaign, I'd avoid any established setting and make my own campaign setting, but that's just my thoughts on the matter.
That's my opinion as well--I think trying to fit previously established settings into the 4E "scheme of things" is rather burdensome. Of course, I generally dislike it when principles of a setting are screwed around with just to fit new rules (it just feels fake to me). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 21:31:51
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the book was disappointing
When I read it nothing was interesting, just bland and generic, lots of cliches, seemed like Planes for Dummies
I expected at least something from Feywild, cause it's new, I'd much rather use Faeries
not to mention all the weird changes to archons (chaotic evil  ), eladrins and loths
I get this hack and slash feel from it, and that's not what planes were all about at all
that's evident in dumbing down of everything, slaadi are ideal monsters cause they need no reason to attack PCs, they have no culture, basically there's no difference between slaadi and demons other than physical, Bleakers are just mad, the Doomguard just want to destroy everything, they are anarchists !?
also it seems too black and white, gods vs. primordials seems like all philosophy there is, chaos is evil, order is good 
Elemental Maelstrom was a good idea, cause the inner planes seemed too monolithic sometimes, but with the demon stuff ruined it
the change of keepers is all right, unless they're just in Gloomwrought
the changes of bladlings (creation of Bane), no more Hristi, and githzerai (they worship Moradin or Vecna) are annoying, there is a brilliant concept like the circles of Zerthimon and they don't use it
the Blood War ceasefire has no background
plane-jamming is nice, better than ships in space |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2009 : 22:45:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
...Bleakers are just mad, the Doomguard just want to destroy everything, they are anarchists !?
The Doomguard as anarchists? Curious.
quote:
also it seems too black and white, gods vs. primordials seems like all philosophy there is, chaos is evil, order is good
I wonder how the factional philosophies would be interpreted under such a system? Hmmmm.
quote:
plane-jamming is nice, better than ships in space
Well, plane-jamming has kinda been around from earlier editions, so it's not really anything new.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 02:19:58
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quote:
Originally posted by the Sage:
The Doomguard as anarchists? Curious.
Apparently they forgot all about the Xaositects. A pity, Entropy and Chaos are not the same thing.
quote:
Originally posted by the Sage:
I wonder how the factional philosophies would be interpreted under such a system? Hmmmm.
In a word, badly. The complexity and the nuances of the Planescape faction system are completely lost if one tries to force into into a binary framework of good versus evil. Strictly speaking no faction is really good or evil, they just have different philosophies of how they envision the multiverse. Trying to force them into any kind of simple moral axis would be not only contrary to their design but also be overly simplistic.
quote:
Originally posted by Quale:
...not to mention all the weird changes to archons (chaotic evil), eladrins and loths.
Yeah, of all the changes to the inhabitants of the planes the change to the Yugoloths probably left me with the most unpleasant taste in my mouth. I rather enjoyed their mercenaries of evil position, it provided an interesting middle ground between the tyranny of the devils and destruction of the demons.
The more I think about it I think to a certain extent one of my problems with the new planar model is how it relates to the new five point alignment system. Its seems that to a certain extent they have simplified the planes to a more simple good versus evil system, which basically obliterates much of the nuances of the Planescape model which, as I mentioned before, leans rather heavily of philosophical differences that have no real direct relationship to good or evil.
quote:
Originally posted by Quale:
Elemental Maelstrom was a good idea, cause the inner planes seemed too monolithic sometimes, but with the demon stuff ruined it
Too monolithic...hmmm...I've heard this complaint before, and it honestly never occurred to me that the Great Wheel style Inner Planes could be thus. Maybe I just perceive things differently, but if you'd care to elaborate on this I'd be grateful. People have said to me that the Elemental Chaos is one of the big parts of the new Fourth Edition cosmology they like and I'm curious about this. Maybe I've been missing something...
quote:
Originally posted by Quale:
...the Blood War ceasefire has no background...
This almost strikes me as evidence of a less complex approach to the Fourth Edition complex of evil. I'm reticent to continue down this train fo thought because it strikes me as rather close to outright criticism of Fourth Edition, which I'd prefer to avoid, but without being impolite it almost strikes, looking at changes to the cosmology, that Fourth Edition has favored a less complex moral framework, realigning things around a fairly simple good versus evil concept, rather the more complex past construction. Maybe I'm just overlooking the nuance, but it seems to me that the new systems lumps evil into mostly one group. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3254 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 03:41:21
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I wonder how the factional philosophies would be interpreted under such a system? Hmmmm.
Just hazarding a guess, but I think we can kiss the Modrons goodbyes since Lawful Neutral no longer exists in 4th Edition. From what I've seen of the book, they aren't even mentioned. Add to the fact that they are the epitome of Lawful Neutral, which no longer exists, and they've gone the way of the dodo. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 04:10:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
Apparently they forgot all about the Xaositects. A pity, Entropy and Chaos are not the same thing.
Aye.
Is there any explanation for this new focus among the Doomguard?
quote:
In a word, badly. The complexity and the nuances of the Planescape faction system are completely lost if one tries to force into into a binary framework of good versus evil. Strictly speaking no faction is really good or evil, they just have different philosophies of how they envision the multiverse. Trying to force them into any kind of simple moral axis would be not only contrary to their design but also be overly simplistic.
Indeed. It was one of the core elements of the PS setting -- and allowed significant role-playing opportunities for most character-types wishing to sign-on with any of the Factions. Forcing a moral axis upon the Factions will undoubtedly affect how and which character-types can be used among them.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 04:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I wonder how the factional philosophies would be interpreted under such a system? Hmmmm.
Just hazarding a guess, but I think we can kiss the Modrons goodbyes since Lawful Neutral no longer exists in 4th Edition. From what I've seen of the book, they aren't even mentioned. Add to the fact that they are the epitome of Lawful Neutral, which no longer exists, and they've gone the way of the dodo.
NOOOO!!! I love the modrons! It made me sad when I didn't see them in 3e, but it didn't occur to me until you said that that they can't really exist in 4e. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 04:22:26
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I wonder how the factional philosophies would be interpreted under such a system? Hmmmm.
Just hazarding a guess, but I think we can kiss the Modrons goodbyes since Lawful Neutral no longer exists in 4th Edition. From what I've seen of the book, they aren't even mentioned. Add to the fact that they are the epitome of Lawful Neutral, which no longer exists, and they've gone the way of the dodo.
NOOOO!!! I love the modrons! It made me sad when I didn't see them in 3e, but it didn't occur to me until you said that that they can't really exist in 4e.
Ranger, if you weren't already aware, modrons were given a 3e update as part of the two web enhancements offered for the Manual of the Planes here.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 05:10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by the Sage:
Is there any explanation for this new focus among the Doomguard?
As far as I can tell, it seems to come from the Doomguard Marauder Paragon Path.
quote:
From Manual of the Planes by Richard Baker, John Rogers, Robert J. Schwalb and James Wyatt, Page 141:
As a Doomguard Marauder, you possess the traits of an anarchist. Laws run counter to nature and deprive mortals of the freedom to choose their fate. For good or bad, the Doomguard is ever the enemies of tyranny and government. The society’s members especially hate devils, and they continuously wage war against them.
The bold word is my doing. Whilst the old Factol's Manifesto makes it clear that chaos and anarchy are forces of decay that some inside the Doomguard favor, the Doomguard are not outlined as anarchists, citing that "order lurks even in the midst of entropy" (Factol's Manifesto, page 40). Pentar, for her part, seems to be pushing the Doomguard towards the chaotic (you know, back before the Faction War) but that is not exactly surprising from a girl from Xaos. Thus, whilst anarchy could be considered a tool in the Doomguard arsenal (depending on which of the three internal factions of the Doomguard you are a part of) its not their objective. Entropy, the inevitable decay of all things, is. Perhaps I've gone a bit off the rails...in any case, I digress.
quote:
Originally posted by the Sage:
Indeed. It was one of the core elements of the PS setting -- and allowed significant role-playing opportunities for most character-types wishing to sign-on with any of the Factions. Forcing a moral axis upon the Factions will undoubtedly affect how and which character-types can be used among them.
Which, bluntly put, sucks. One of the most interesting elements of the factions was, in my opinion, how you could have such radically different alignments all under one philosophical umbrella. Take the Fraternity of Order for instance, an organization dedicated to learning and utilizing the laws of the multiverse, an equally acceptable philosophy for the Lawful Good Paladin, the Lawful Neutral Judge or the Lawful Evil tyrant. Three radically different approaches, one faction. Gotta love it.
Well, here's hoping that everything is really more nuanced and complex than I perceive it. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 14:21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I wonder how the factional philosophies would be interpreted under such a system? Hmmmm.
Just hazarding a guess, but I think we can kiss the Modrons goodbyes since Lawful Neutral no longer exists in 4th Edition. From what I've seen of the book, they aren't even mentioned. Add to the fact that they are the epitome of Lawful Neutral, which no longer exists, and they've gone the way of the dodo.
NOOOO!!! I love the modrons! It made me sad when I didn't see them in 3e, but it didn't occur to me until you said that that they can't really exist in 4e.
Ranger, if you weren't already aware, modrons were given a 3e update as part of the two web enhancements offered for the Manual of the Planes here.
Awesome! Thanks for the link. I'm not very good at navigating the WotC website so I've missed a lot of little things like this. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 14:21:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Just hazarding a guess, but I think we can kiss the Modrons goodbyes since Lawful Neutral no longer exists in 4th Edition. From what I've seen of the book, they aren't even mentioned. Add to the fact that they are the epitome of Lawful Neutral, which no longer exists, and they've gone the way of the dodo.
Well, the term "lawful neutral" no longer exists, but the concept certainly still does (it's just grouped under "unaligned"). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 18:51:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
The Doomguard as anarchists? Curious.
What Edain said, they aren't the Anarchists, but still declaring them anarchists and revolutionaries makes unnecessary confusions, the authors should have been more careful with it. The Revolutionary League isn't mentioned, must be some conspiracy. The Doomguard is now a plane-spanning warrior society dedicated to destroying anything that attempts to impose its order on the cosmos. Those of Exhalus want to collect the Rod of Seven Parts. Basically it seems they ignored all other types of Doomguard except those that are into destruction, so they would be the Doomguard of Salt with emphasis on hack and smash, it goes with the spirit of 4e where monsters are there just to be killed. But we'll see, maybe something changes in DMG 2 which will have Sigil.
Bleakers are now equal to the Dispossessed, and are a secret order of adepts who deliberately give themselves over to madness to master magical power no mortal mind could otherwise endure. No mention of the humanitarian aspect.
Sensates are only mentioned with the Civic Festhall, nothing about what they do.
Only Mercykillers get a (relatively) decent treatment in Dragon.
I have a feeling that the next detailed organization will be the Godslayers, or someting like that, once they get to epic tier, and they won't be ridiculed anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I wonder how the factional philosophies would be interpreted under such a system? Hmmmm.
I think they would have easily fit in, that was the beauty of factions, they weren't dependant on alignment.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Well, plane-jamming has kinda been around from earlier editions, so it's not really anything new.
yea, I know about the gith ships, the Ships of Chaos needed big portals, what else? but it's nice that some new ships are introduced, before they didn't do it cause it would damage the appeal of Spelljammer.
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
In a word, badly. The complexity and the nuances of the Planescape faction system are completely lost if one tries to force into into a binary framework of good versus evil. Strictly speaking no faction is really good or evil, they just have different philosophies of how they envision the multiverse. Trying to force them into any kind of simple moral axis would be not only contrary to their design but also be overly simplistic.
agreed
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
Yeah, of all the changes to the inhabitants of the planes the change to the Yugoloths probably left me with the most unpleasant taste in my mouth. I rather enjoyed their mercenaries of evil position, it provided an interesting middle ground between the tyranny of the devils and destruction of the demons.
also the science and great experiments of evil
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
Too monolithic...hmmm...I've heard this complaint before, and it honestly never occurred to me that the Great Wheel style Inner Planes could be thus. Maybe I just perceive things differently, but if you'd care to elaborate on this I'd be grateful. People have said to me that the Elemental Chaos is one of the big parts of the new Fourth Edition cosmology they like and I'm curious about this. Maybe I've been missing something...
Basically it's about more possibilities, yes, before the elemental planes bordered in a lot of places and had pockets of other elements, but with the Maelstrom you can combine everything, it seems more fun when you know that e.g. the Citadel of Ice & Steel and the City of Brass are in one place, and all that intrigue that comes from it, and with the constant flux and interaction of elements they aren't set in stone and distant, much more can happen. Maybe it's just a psychological barrier for me.
And I also felt there are too many elemental planes in contrast to others, cause they weren't all that significant in terms of power in the multiverse.
still all that shift of the elemental realms towards chaos imo spoils it
quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
Thus, whilst anarchy could be considered a tool in the Doomguard arsenal (depending on which of the three internal factions of the Doomguard you are a part of) its not their objective. Entropy, the inevitable decay of all things, is. Perhaps I've gone a bit off the rails...in any case, I digress.
yea, entropy can be viewed as a lawful process, like in the Chaos theory, or some Doomguard could behave orderly and promote laws that contribute to entropy |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 19:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
yea, I know about the gith ships, the Ships of Chaos needed big portals, what else? but it's nice that some new ships are introduced, before they didn't do it cause it would damage the appeal of Spelljammer.
I don't think it had anything to do with Spelljammer... When Spelljammer came out, there wasn't much focus at all on the planes -- in fact, the last Spelljammer products came out before the first Planescape products.
Not only that, but Dragon 159, an issue devoted in no small part to spelljamming, included an article entitled "Voidjammers!". The article was about a mage and his ten ship fleet, which acted as a "taxi service" in the Astral Plane. I don't know if any of the Planescape material followed up on this, but it was there at the same time as Spelljammer. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 21:41:11
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-Wooly now why did I get a 5th Element visual from your last post. Astral Taxis! 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 22:49:25
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| I was just thinking...what happened to the souls of those faithful to the deities that died/were subsumed? I'm guessing one or two planes fully collapsed, which would be disastrous to anything that was living on them. Even on the planes that still exist, there would still be followers of now-dead deities. What happens to them? |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 23:13:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
yea, I know about the gith ships, the Ships of Chaos needed big portals, what else? but it's nice that some new ships are introduced, before they didn't do it cause it would damage the appeal of Spelljammer.
I don't think it had anything to do with Spelljammer... When Spelljammer came out, there wasn't much focus at all on the planes -- in fact, the last Spelljammer products came out before the first Planescape products.
Well, the arcane/mercane are indeed around in PLANESCAPE, along with spelljamming. However PS was less focused on the Prime than it was with the other planes and so spelljamming, being confined to the Prime, was given only passing mention.
Also, Mercane/Arcane have an unexplained fear of Sigil. They won't enter the city willingly, and if they happen to find themselves stepping into the City of Doors they'll attempt to flee by way of the quickest portal out, regardless of its endpoint. Thus the mercane/arcane being the largest spelljamming users get little exposure in the city central to the setting.
quote:
Not only that, but Dragon 159, an issue devoted in no small part to spelljamming, included an article entitled "Voidjammers!". The article was about a mage and his ten ship fleet, which acted as a "taxi service" in the Astral Plane. I don't know if any of the Planescape material followed up on this, but it was there at the same time as Spelljammer.
I seem to recall voidjammers being mentioned here and there. But it's been so long that I can't immediately recall which PS sources.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 23:13:56
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
I was just thinking...what happened to the souls of those faithful to the deities that died/were subsumed? I'm guessing one or two planes fully collapsed, which would be disastrous to anything that was living on them. Even on the planes that still exist, there would still be followers of now-dead deities. What happens to them?
-Sucks to be them. 
BRIMSTONE
Edit Sage you are a fast one!  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 05 Feb 2009 23:15:15 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 23:19:47
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Also, Mercane/Arcane have an unexplained fear of Sigil. They won't enter the city willingly, and if they happen to find themselves stepping into the City of Doors they'll attempt to flee by way of the quickest portal out, regardless of its endpoint. Thus the mercane/arcane being the largest spelljamming users get little exposure in the city central to the setting.
And if you add in the 3rd edition lore, the Mercane seem to have specifically created their own "planar metropolis" of Union. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 23:35:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Edit Sage you are a fast one!
Blast! With my Kenobi-styled beard, you could have said, in a Grievous-like voice, "You are a bold one." That would've been neato!
Ah, well.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 23:35:55
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
And if you add in the 3rd edition lore, the Mercane seem to have specifically created their own "planar metropolis" of Union.
Oh, yeah. I forgot about that one. Shows how much I've read my Epic Level Handbook, eh? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2009 : 00:20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by the Sage:
Oh, yeah. I forgot about that one. Shows how much I've read my Epic Level Handbook, eh?
Don't feel bad, as a fan of Planescape you would have been required to hate Union anyways; its in the rules. 
quote:
Originally posted by Quale:
Only Mercykillers get a (relatively) decent treatment in Dragon.
Ahhh...Dragon. That explains why I'm a bit out of the loop. Other than the background article on Fourth Edition Cormyr I have not read it since it went online only. I guess I should take a look at the Planescape stuff just so I can say I've read it. Makes it easier to denounce as heresy that way. 
quote:
Originally posted by Quale:
Basically it's about more possibilities, yes, before the elemental planes bordered in a lot of places and had pockets of other elements, but with the Maelstrom you can combine everything, it seems more fun when you know that e.g. the Citadel of Ice & Steel and the City of Brass are in one place, and all that intrigue that comes from it, and with the constant flux and interaction of elements they aren't set in stone and distant, much more can happen. Maybe it's just a psychological barrier for me.
And I also felt there are too many elemental planes in contrast to others, cause they weren't all that significant in terms of power in the multiverse.
still all that shift of the elemental realms towards chaos imo spoils it
I see. I can appreciate that. Thanks for the elaboration. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm…pie…"
- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 13:51:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Not only that, but Dragon 159, an issue devoted in no small part to spelljamming, included an article entitled "Voidjammers!". The article was about a mage and his ten ship fleet, which acted as a "taxi service" in the Astral Plane. I don't know if any of the Planescape material followed up on this, but it was there at the same time as Spelljammer.
thanks for that, I have sort of an index of planar locations, it's easier that way to create adventures, and I missed this seems pretty important fleet/empire in the Astral
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Also, Mercane/Arcane have an unexplained fear of Sigil. They won't enter the city willingly, and if they happen to find themselves stepping into the City of Doors they'll attempt to flee by way of the quickest portal out, regardless of its endpoint. Thus the mercane/arcane being the largest spelljamming users get little exposure in the city central to the setting.
they're in PS, I know that part, interesting, never knew they're important in Spelljammer, only book I read from there was Realmspace, didn't like it
I had them in one adventure, the city was homebrew, somewhat similar to Inphirblau, the story was that they were like dabus in the previous multiverse, now free, they knew a bunch of secrets about reality, but weren't sharing them
they're in Union  , we have the book but when I saw lvl. 30 city guards never bothered reading that part |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36971 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 14:36:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Also, Mercane/Arcane have an unexplained fear of Sigil. They won't enter the city willingly, and if they happen to find themselves stepping into the City of Doors they'll attempt to flee by way of the quickest portal out, regardless of its endpoint. Thus the mercane/arcane being the largest spelljamming users get little exposure in the city central to the setting.
they're in PS, I know that part, interesting, never knew they're important in Spelljammer, only book I read from there was Realmspace, didn't like it
They are the only ones that know how to make new spelljamming helms. Since everyone needs one, the Arcane have a great deal of power in space. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 15:06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Also, Mercane/Arcane have an unexplained fear of Sigil. They won't enter the city willingly, and if they happen to find themselves stepping into the City of Doors they'll attempt to flee by way of the quickest portal out, regardless of its endpoint. Thus the mercane/arcane being the largest spelljamming users get little exposure in the city central to the setting.
they're in PS, I know that part, interesting, never knew they're important in Spelljammer, only book I read from there was Realmspace, didn't like it
They are the only ones that know how to make new spelljamming helms. Since everyone needs one, the Arcane have a great deal of power in space.
It should be noted also, that just because the Arcane/Mercane may not be allowed in certain places, they can still influence economic conditions in such locations. From SPELLJAMMER, they often use rastipedes [centipede-centaurs] as intermediaries, and the dohwar -- a race of carnivorous penguins -- are a lesser race of traders that fulfil the function of the Arcane on a lesser level. And the Arcane seem to be fond of them.
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StarBog
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
152 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 11:34:32
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| Actually, I'm going to take back my earlier comment since I've how had the book sitting in my 'bathroom reading pile' for a couple of weeks now and have had the chance to examine it. I now think its *not* worth the £17 I paid for it - it is, like the 4e FRCS/FRPG, just too superficial. |
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4e Manual of the Planes
