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Vivaladeadman
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 04:47:16
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I just finished Extinction (book IV of the War of the Spider Queen Series). I really was enjoying the story of Halisstra and how she was able to escape the dark claws of Lloth. I was super psyched that her and Ryld were able to be together. Well as I was finishing it I was checking out the back of the book where it reccomends other books by different authors. I looked in the Lisa Smedman section and I read the brief description on the Lady Penitent series......
*sigh*
Well after that I guess I got a little too curious because I googled Lady Penitent and read all the spoilers about the series.......
I really wanted everything to work out but boy was I wrong. After reading the spoilers I don't think I really want to read the last 2 books of War of the Spider Queen, well at least not as fast as I've read the previous 4.
So I guess after all this rambling the question I have is was anyone else miffed about what happened to Halisstra?
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Through darkness to light and back again. His future remains shrouded in mystery. He is everlasting, he is perpetual, he is the phenom, he is...the Undertaker |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 05:05:42
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I didn't like what happened to her. One of the problems I had with the War of the Spider Queen books (and there were many) was that the writing by committee aspect meant that the characters shift personalities from book to book. Halisstra had some potential, but then they -- in my opinion -- threw that potential away.
I've not gotten around to the Lady Penitent series, myself. I'm told that Halisstra doesn't have as big a part in the series as one would expect, but that's not been enough to make me overcome my aversion to reading the series. I've not read it because I didn't like what happened to Halisstra, I didn't like the WotSQ overall, and I don't like what I've heard from people that have read it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 Jan 2009 05:07:33 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 09:43:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Vivaladeadman
So I guess after all this rambling the question I have is was anyone else miffed about what happened to Halisstra?
The thing that surprised me the most about the lady penitent trilogy is that Halisstra was so pathetic there. I mean, the trilogy was NAMED after her, and she was by far the most uninteresting character. That's about as sad as it gets. If there is a book version of the Razzie awards she should definitely get it. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Oriac
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 14:49:22
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Honestly Halisstra is my least favorite drow ever. She got just what she deserved, ever-lasting torture from the Demon Goddess she was too weak to turn away from.
On a happier note I do like her brother Q'arlynd, he was a poor replacement for my much missed and beloved Phauran though. |
Edited by - Oriac on 29 Jan 2009 14:52:03 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 14:54:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Vivaladeadman
So I guess after all this rambling the question I have is was anyone else miffed about what happened to Halisstra?
Having read many comments on the matter, I can easily reply "yes"--there were other people who were upset about this character's plotline. Myself, I dislike it too, but I'm mostly upset about what was done with the drow deities. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 29 Jan 2009 14:55:47 |
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Vivaladeadman
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 15:19:05
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When I started to read the War of the Spider Queen I really didn't know what to expect. I've read all the Drizzt novels which for the most part kept me satisfied with a good tale but from a character standpoint left something to be desired. I mean don't get me wrong I didn't want all the main characters to die but it gets kind of old with all the "near death" and "apparent death but miraculous ressurection" scenarios.
What surprised me the most about WOTSQ is how I was attracted to the Halisstra character. I mean yeah at first she was a snobby spider kissing priestess but then through the trials she faced I was pleased to see her turn to Ellistraee and seemingly turn everything around. I guess I was so used to the Drizzt characters being "invincible" I didn't see Halisstra's downfall coming. 
Oh well, such is life. I'll finish WOTSQ and probably read the Lady Penitent series as well just so I can keep up to date with the goings on of the Realms
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Through darkness to light and back again. His future remains shrouded in mystery. He is everlasting, he is perpetual, he is the phenom, he is...the Undertaker |
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Oriac
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 15:25:25
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| I agree Rinonalyrna, when Vhaeraun died from his own plan I thought that was a pretty low blow. The excuse was he was fighting on Eilistraee's home plane, but so was Mystra when she bit the dust. And then in the next book when Eilistraee is beheaded by Halisstra.... I just about tore the page out. The whole depiction of the scene with Corellon Larethian taking her place across the table from Lolth pissed me off also, because if he thinks he can swing in and pick up all the clerics of the the non-lolth worshiping drow then I don't think I can ever forgive him. I'd rather see Wendonai pick up the left over drow portfolios then Corellon or Lolth, I'm sure he can bust a dance move or two to convince ex-Eilistraee followers. |
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Oriac
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 15:29:46
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quote:
I mean yeah at first she was a snobby spider kissing priestess but then through the trials she faced I was pleased to see her turn to Ellistraee and seemingly turn everything around.
Well, guess what, when she comes face to face with Lolth, she begs for her forgiveness and tries to say that she never truly loved Eilistraee she was just being a good spy. So she was destined to be a failure the rest of her life. She didn't just betray one Goddess, she betrayed both by turning on each of them in turn. |
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Vivaladeadman
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 15:36:41
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Oh really? Hmmm well then that definately will change my feeling about her. I guess I've learned my lesson and that lesson would be don't trust a drow unless of course it's Drizzt.
I really hope more books will be written about the drow. Unfortunately now I'm totally hooked on the race. For as long as I could remember dwarves were my favorite but drow might be closing in on that number 1 spot. After reading the Hunter's Blades triology I found a whole new love for the short bearded folk |
Through darkness to light and back again. His future remains shrouded in mystery. He is everlasting, he is perpetual, he is the phenom, he is...the Undertaker |
Edited by - Vivaladeadman on 29 Jan 2009 15:49:16 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 16:08:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Vivaladeadman
was anyone else miffed about what happened to Halisstra?
I'd say! Not only miffed about what happened to Halisstra but very peeved about what happened to the drow deities. (Of course, as it turned out the hatchet job on the drow deities became a large scale cull as many other deities got thrown into the Astral.)
The War of the Spider Queen series started well. The first book really set the stage, and the second kept up the pace but in the end all the six books ended up documenting was very little. (To sum the series up with a favourite phrase of mine: Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.)
The Lady Penitent series is just rather daft with most of the drow deities acting like Drow 90210. (Continuing the French theme, les boules.) |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 16:41:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Myself, I dislike it too, but I'm mostly upset about what was done with the drow deities.
That's a lot of why I've not read the books. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Oriac
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 18:08:04
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| Hey Vivaladeadman, you've read the dark elf trilogy right? I'd say Homeland is about as in-depth a look at drow society as you're gonna find. My second suggestion would have been Dissolotion but you have already read that too. Anyone else know of any other books dealing with drow in the Underdark? I know there are plenty on the surface. |
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Vivaladeadman
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 18:32:42
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| Yeah. I think I'm going to check out the Starlight and Shadows series next. I don't know I guess I have a weird attraction to characters who overcome their evil heritage and not necessarily become good but have some good tendancies (if that makes any sense) I wouldn't go as far as to say Drizzt like but perhaps Artemis like. |
Through darkness to light and back again. His future remains shrouded in mystery. He is everlasting, he is perpetual, he is the phenom, he is...the Undertaker |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2009 : 19:16:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Oriac
Well, guess what, when she comes face to face with Lolth, she begs for her forgiveness and tries to say that she never truly loved Eilistraee she was just being a good spy.
Of course, one thing I learned about this character (in the LP books) is that she lies a lot. You can't trust that anything she says to anyone is meant from the bottom of her heart. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 29 Jan 2009 19:22:22 |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 02:33:46
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I didn't like how Hallistra turned out, but it's certainly no reason not to finish WotSQ.
I didn't like what happened to Elistraee, and Qilue, but I still liked the series.
I hope, but I doubt, that we see Qarlynd again. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Thalos_Milathriel
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 03:51:22
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| I enjoyed the books, in fact I just reread them. I also was dissappointed that Hallistra was not redeemed. I agree with the others that her brother was an interesting character. He was young, so perhaps we'll see some 4E stories about him? |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 04:42:04
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| I'd like to see how the newly changed Dark Elves cope. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 06:37:14
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-I finally started to read book 3 in the Lady Penatint series. I find it to be a good story. I may not like what is going to happen, but I am starting to look at Realms Novels like Eberron Novels in a seperate universe. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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yshyi
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 07:47:30
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| Lolth is a godess of chaos its natural that halistra becomes who she is she carried out lolths every desire her whole life was devoted to her service she never truly gave in to the huntress. Id hoped that shed redeem herself but in my opinion its quite fitting. |
yshyi |
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yshyi
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 08:20:39
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please just let go of your own personal ego for two seconds and listen to a sage of the realms universe hallistra started out as a devout follower of lloth or loth depending on how long you have been reading the books only through the relationship she developed with ryld did she find herself intrigued with elisstrae so try to cut a drow a bit of slack if you want to hate on one of the characters take your aggression out on dannifae the promiscouis drow that flirted with every male drow in the series and not the only female in the series that actually thought to question the evil elvin goddess of chaos not to sound snide or anything but i have read every book in the realms universe and she is one of the strongest individuals i have had the pleasure of reading about in my opinion she was caught up in a situation where her past prevented her from having a promising future if you cant understand that then maybe you should find something else to read about because the realms are for real people that understand the coplexity of human or drow nature!
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yshyi |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 09:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
I'd like to see how the newly changed Dark Elves cope.
Have they changed? According to the $E changes I know that all of their gods are dead except Lloth/Lolth. But considering she was the deity for the greater part of them, how does this constitute a change? |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Vivaladeadman
Acolyte
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 14:10:42
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quote:
Originally posted by yshyi
please just let go of your own personal ego for two seconds and listen to a sage of the realms universe hallistra started out as a devout follower of lloth or loth depending on how long you have been reading the books only through the relationship she developed with ryld did she find herself intrigued with elisstrae so try to cut a drow a bit of slack if you want to hate on one of the characters take your aggression out on dannifae the promiscouis drow that flirted with every male drow in the series and not the only female in the series that actually thought to question the evil elvin goddess of chaos not to sound snide or anything but i have read every book in the realms universe and she is one of the strongest individuals i have had the pleasure of reading about in my opinion she was caught up in a situation where her past prevented her from having a promising future if you cant understand that then maybe you should find something else to read about because the realms are for real people that understand the coplexity of human or drow nature!
I'm not sure who this was addressed to but since I created this post then I will take it upon myself to respond. I do understand the complex nature of the drow vs humans. I also understand how Lloth works. I was just dissapointed to see a character who I thought was going to seemingly rise up and overcome Lloth's will resort to a sniviling little turncoat when confronted by Lloth. I like characters who are able to throw off the stereotypes of their past and become who they want to be not because of some deity. In this case I was wrong. I understand now that Halisstra was being "drowlike" throughout the whole series. I also understand that she fits the devoted follower of Lloth down to a tee. I just felt a bit cheated but oh well such is life.
Also for the record. I'm 10 chapters into Annihilation and I'm enjoying it. I still am intrigued as to what happens to my other fav characters in the series such as Pharaun and Ryld. So please no spoilers on those 
In closing I would like to say I should have the Lady Penitent books in a week or so so stay tuned for another discussion! |
Through darkness to light and back again. His future remains shrouded in mystery. He is everlasting, he is perpetual, he is the phenom, he is...the Undertaker |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 14:44:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Vivaladeadman
I'm not sure who this was addressed to
I wasn't sure either, it just looked like a rant with no thought given to punctuation or spelling. I would have stopped reading after the first sentence but... |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
Edited by - Kiaransalyn on 30 Jan 2009 14:46:24 |
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Oriac
Acolyte
22 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 14:53:33
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quote:
Also for the record. I'm 10 chapters into Annihilation and I'm enjoying it. I still am intrigued as to what happens to my other fav characters in the series such as Pharaun and Ryld.
I'm glad you decided to finish the series. I may not like everything about the way it ends, but it is a good series and deserves to be read to the end. And its got a couple of epic battles that are not to be missed. <-- Not a spoiler. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 15:37:21
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quote:
Originally posted by yshyi
please just let go of your own personal ego for two seconds and listen to a sage of the realms universe hallistra started out as a devout follower of lloth or loth depending on how long you have been reading the books only through the relationship she developed with ryld did she find herself intrigued with elisstrae so try to cut a drow a bit of slack if you want to hate on one of the characters take your aggression out on dannifae the promiscouis drow that flirted with every male drow in the series and not the only female in the series that actually thought to question the evil elvin goddess of chaos not to sound snide or anything but i have read every book in the realms universe and she is one of the strongest individuals i have had the pleasure of reading about in my opinion she was caught up in a situation where her past prevented her from having a promising future if you cant understand that then maybe you should find something else to read about because the realms are for real people that understand the coplexity of human or drow nature!
This post is more than a little harsh and uncalled for. People not liking something (with the way she flip-flopped, Halisstra came across to me as being quite weak) does not mean they do not understand something! We are all entitled to our own opinions, and insulting, arrogant posts are not the way to reply to them.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 16:59:31
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| I agree, although I admit I didn't even finish reading that post because it was one long unbroken sentence. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 18:19:40
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quote:
Have they changed? According to the $E changes I know that all of their gods are dead except Lloth/Lolth. But considering she was the deity for the greater part of them, how does this constitute a change?
A lot of Drow still worship Ghanadaur(sp?), and now they have the Seldarine back. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 18:29:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
A lot of Drow still worship Ghanadaur(sp?), and now they have the Seldarine back.
Thanks for letting me know. I didn't know that drow were worshipping the Seldarine. That is a major change.
Is there an idea of how many drow worship the Seldarine? Or any specific drow cities? |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 19:41:56
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No. She used the word "hundreds" when decribing the number who have been redeemed. It's not even clear how many Elistraeeans(sp?) survived, and they're the ones who would be worshipping the Seldarine right away.
However, the Seldarine picked up the souls of the dead Elistraeeans. There is one city in the realms that I know they can live in, but mentioning it may spoil 2 trilogies.
From what I understand from the novels,(I've not read any 4E rules books, as I no longer play)there are now Drow, and Dark Elves, the latter being the changed ones. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 20:16:20
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quote:
Originally posted by yshyi
listen to a sage of the realms universe
Hmm this bothers me more then anything else said.
This from a user that has/had 10 posts to candlekeep and clearly not a user I know from any other Realms inclined forum. Ed clearly is a Sage of the Realms are are some others that we know, does anyone know this user? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2009 : 21:41:33
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| Alright, I think the topic of yshyi's post has been more than covered. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Jan 2009 21:41:58 |
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Miffed about Halisstra **Spoilers**
