| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 17:18:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
HOWEVER... this guy is the AWARD-WINNING, west-coast regional gamemaster for the LFR!!!
And he's growing bored with it...
He says the old setting had way too much lore (and he's happy its gone), but the new one doesn't even have enough basic information to run a game.
This is the problem. The few people in high places had a problem with all the lore of FR. Not the many people in little places such as most of us.  Hence it wasn't a vote OF popularity, but rather a vote FROM popularity that FR's greatness was reduced. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
 |
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 19:53:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm expecting a surprise announcement, which they may be saving for Gencon, ...
4.5E 
No, no, no. They stated outright that there will be no 4.5e. So instead it will be "4e Revised," or some similar such thing.  |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 20:09:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm expecting a surprise announcement, which they may be saving for Gencon, ...
4.5E
No, no, no. They stated outright that there will be no 4.5e. So instead it will be "4e Revised," or some similar such thing.
Wasn't it also stated outright a couple years back that they weren't working on 4E? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 20:32:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm expecting a surprise announcement, which they may be saving for Gencon, ...
4.5E
No, no, no. They stated outright that there will be no 4.5e. So instead it will be "4e Revised," or some similar such thing.
Wasn't it also stated outright a couple years back that they weren't working on 4E?
"Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten."
(Nobody wants to build a wall)
Walter Ulbricht 1961, president of the GDR, a few weeks before he signed the command to build the Berlin Wall. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
Edited by - Ayunken-vanzan on 13 Mar 2009 20:34:28 |
|
|
|
Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 20:56:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
<snip>
"Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten."
(Nobody wants to build a wall)
Walter Ulbricht 1961, president of the GDR, a few weeks before he signed the command to build the Berlin Wall.
"These are not the droids you are looking for."
- Obi-Wan Kenobi, Jedi Knight, when they clearly WERE the droids they were looking for
|
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 21:34:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Wasn't it also stated outright a couple years back that they weren't working on 4E?
In fact a Wiz-O over at the WotC boards got so angry with those '4e conspiracy theories' that he stated that he would ban anyone who who started another thread to that effect, and also went on to say that there absolutely, positively was no 'secret 4e project' underway at WotC, and he was tired of all the 'false rumours' that kept getting started on the Internet.
That was SIX MONTHS before the 4e announcement at Gencon.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 13 Mar 2009 21:34:32 |
|
|
|
Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 22:02:59
|
| My point was that they would (probably) attempt to call it anything else other than 4.5e if they do a revised edition. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 22:31:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
He says the old setting had way too much lore (and he's happy its gone)...
It's not gone.
Ashe: |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 13 Mar 2009 22:36:51 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 23:31:17
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I just have a hunch they may have made changed their mind about certain things, because 4e hasn't developed the kind of momentum they were hoping it would (as 3e did).
I've been having those concerns as well. When the DLCG was first announced, there was still a significant surge in anticipation for 4e D&D. But with the particular negativity toward the first 4e campaign setting -- the Realms -- I'm wondering whether Wizards may have decided to re-work their release schedule somewhat. Perhaps to give 4e more time to draw in potentially new players or fans of certain worlds. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 02:20:40
|
Thats what I'm thinking - they are pulling back now, looking at their plan, and re-assessing it.
They are probably wondering if there are enough DL fans out there to make their numbers, and if they'll just piss them off more, as they did to the majority of the FR fanbase. Also, one of DL's main 'flavors' are the Draconians, and they altready used that one. I suppose they could could give us Minotaurs (lotsa 'shiney' potential there), but the Kender are just over-excited Halflings (with sticky fingers). Each setting has to bring something useful to the core rules, and I'm not sure if there's enough there to make DL worth it for them.
As they did with FR, they have to gamble on new fans they don't have yet being in greater numbers then the fans they could potentially lose, and without us knowing any of the hard numbers about the 4e products, we can only sit back and make guesses here.
My own thoughts on the matter is that they are currently looking for ways to stop-up the current flood of people jumping ship. I know thats what I'd be doing if I were them. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 14 Mar 2009 16:23:36 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 05:27:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thats what I'm thinking - they are pulling back now, looking at their plan, and re-assessing it.
They are probably wondering if there are enough DL fans out there to make their numbers, and if they'll just piss them off more, as they did to the majority of the FR fanbase.
Well, if that's the case, it'll probably mirror the release of the 3e DLCS back in '03. We DL fans went through quite a period of uncertainty and doubt as to whether the setting would receive any official update from WotC. Even to the point where the fan-based Whitestone Council and the 'Dragonlance Nexus' started putting together their own "as-close-to-official-3e-update" for DL.
If Wizards are re-evaluating their products and release schedule, then we could very easily see a repeat of this again. Although this time, I doubt the DL license will be handed over to a third-party publisher as it was before, with the 3e release.
quote:
Also, one of DL's main 'flavors' are the Draconians, and they altready used that one. I suppose they could could give us Minotaurs (lotsa 'shiney' potential there), but the Kender are just over-excited Halflings (with sticky fingers). Each setting has to bring something useful to the core rules, and I'm not sure if there's enough there to make DL worth it for them.
Well, if you've read most of the more recent books, I'd say there's still plenty that needs to be covered -- and most would likely need new rules and whatever at some point. Recent events in Taladas, the restoration of Solamnia, the Elven Nations diaspora, the expanding Minotaur empire, and all the usual celestial jumbling-around... to name just a few.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 16:36:13
|
Well, my point is that each setting not only bring it's own flavor, but also come with the potential for them to add more rules to the 'core' (because ALL rules are now considered core, and cross-setting compatible... supposedly).
They'd need AT LEAST two new races (easy enough), at least three new classes (also easy, given the knights), and some unique rules, like stuff revolving around Draconic servitors (which could be easily cross-applied to Dragonborn).
Its do-able, but most of that goes into the PG, which leaves the CG for the fluff you are talking about.
Dark Sun's got Psionics, and Ravenloft's got all the rules revolving around 'terror' and 'taint', so both of those bring a lot to the table, but I'm not sure if DL has enough 'shiney' left in it (obviously GH doesn't).
Then again, Tiamet has gained new prominenece in the core rules, so DL is still a possibility - but she got that promotion at a time when they were still sure about doing 4e DL. They could also be deciding to ADD stuff onto their schedule, without removing anything already planned.
I also forsee Planescape and Spelljammer getting rolled together (which I would have poreferred in the first place), which will be the setting that gets attached to the 4e Manual of the Planes.
I'm also confused as to why they aren't coming out with setting-specific MMs... those would have the most potential for mass-appeal... weird. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 14 Mar 2009 16:37:11 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 16:54:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I also forsee Planescape and Spelljammer getting rolled together (which I would have poreferred in the first place), which will be the setting that gets attached to the 4e Manual of the Planes.
I don't see this one... Though I loved Spelljammer, it was never very popular. It's kind of the redheaded stepchild of the 2E settings. All it got for 3E was a single Dungeon adventure that didn't even try to preserve the feel of the original setting, and it was otherwise written out of existence or ignored.
I think it's inevitable that 4E will get at least one or two planar books, but I don't foresee Spelljammer even getting a mention. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 17:46:09
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I also forsee Planescape and Spelljammer getting rolled together (which I would have poreferred in the first place), which will be the setting that gets attached to the 4e Manual of the Planes.
I don't see this one... Though I loved Spelljammer, it was never very popular. It's kind of the redheaded stepchild of the 2E settings. All it got for 3E was a single Dungeon adventure that didn't even try to preserve the feel of the original setting, and it was otherwise written out of existence or ignored.
I think it's inevitable that 4E will get at least one or two planar books, but I don't foresee Spelljammer even getting a mention.
I like Spelljammer a lot, but with them throwing out the concept of all settings being in crystal spheres in the same universe, it may be too hard to adapt it to 4e. I guess it's possible that the astral sea could allow access to all material planes, but it seemed to me that they didn't like having them all connected. |
|
|
|
Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 21:35:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Change is something that is always difficult and in the case of the Realms, we will never know the true imperatives in relation to the change other than the obvious one that it needed to change in some way to accomodate the new edition of the game.
If I acquired the rights to Middle-earth by some legal fluke, invited some friends around, made up a simplified Fourth Age setting contrary to Tolkien's design principles and stated intentions, and published it, that wouldn't be change to Middle-earth, it would be an additional derivative variant world. Getting us to accept that this is a matter of 'change' is the big deception Wizards is pulling here -- it's a simple category error of confusing the legal and the subcreated entities. The Realms is what it ever was.quote:
The method in which they adapted the Realms to 4E was never going to please everyone. Whether they did a good, bad or indifferent job is a matter of opinion.
To a certain extent, in terms of judgement of their execution, but it's mainly a matter of purposes and priorities.quote:
It is a medium that I do not expect will do justice to the Realms and will not allow the Realms to 'live, grow and improve' before 5E comes along.
It's also a medium that's integral to the whole concept of Realms-2008. There isn't a larger Realms-2008 out there not being done justice to in the way we're used to with the Realms. |
Edited by - Faraer on 14 Mar 2009 21:48:48 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 23:35:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, my point is that each setting not only bring it's own flavor, but also come with the potential for them to add more rules to the 'core' (because ALL rules are now considered core, and cross-setting compatible... supposedly).
Well, we have the whole set of rules attached to the four main systems of magic in DL -- arcane, divine, sorcery, and mysticism. As well as all the other small divisions of magic-use. They've largely always required alternate rules, given how the systems operate on Krynn.
quote:
They'd need AT LEAST two new races (easy enough), at least three new classes (also easy, given the knights), and some unique rules, like stuff revolving around Draconic servitors (which could be easily cross-applied to Dragonborn).
There's certainly the possibility of new classes, since I can imagine some of the more recent characters portrayed in some of the novels would require class definitions that don't quite exist in core 4e D&D at the moment.
quote:
Dark Sun's got Psionics, and Ravenloft's got all the rules revolving around 'terror' and 'taint', so both of those bring a lot to the table, but I'm not sure if DL has enough 'shiney' left in it (obviously GH doesn't).
And DL has its alternate magic systems, as I said above.
quote:
I also forsee Planescape and Spelljammer getting rolled together (which I would have poreferred in the first place), which will be the setting that gets attached to the 4e Manual of the Planes.
There's a setting being published for the 4e MotP? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2009 : 23:39:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I also forsee Planescape and Spelljammer getting rolled together (which I would have poreferred in the first place), which will be the setting that gets attached to the 4e Manual of the Planes.
I don't see this one... Though I loved Spelljammer, it was never very popular. It's kind of the redheaded stepchild of the 2E settings. All it got for 3E was a single Dungeon adventure that didn't even try to preserve the feel of the original setting, and it was otherwise written out of existence or ignored.
I think it's inevitable that 4E will get at least one or two planar books, but I don't foresee Spelljammer even getting a mention.
Well, there were the spelljamming references in the FRCG. But they exist simply because they are part of the canon history of the setting. And, as I recall, Brian remembered how much some of us, himself included, loved the setting.
Though, at the same time, those references don't specifically mean that WotC is intent on designing a full version of the setting using the 4e rules set any time soon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 02:18:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
There's a setting being published for the 4e MotP?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/242110000
-This is for the Plane Below book that is coming out in December. It is going to be about the Elemental Chaos and The Abyss. That is what I have heard. So next year they will make the Plane Above. The year after that it will be the plane to the Left and then the plane to the right. Lets not forget the Plane in the Middle.  
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 15 Mar 2009 02:19:43 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 09:04:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
There's a setting being published for the 4e MotP?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/242110000
-This is for the Plane Below book that is coming out in December. It is going to be about the Elemental Chaos and The Abyss. That is what I have heard. So next year they will make the Plane Above. The year after that it will be the plane to the Left and then the plane to the right. Lets not forget the Plane in the Middle.
BRIMSTONE
Eh. I can't say that I'm all that interested. When I've wanted a worthwhile detailing of the Abyss, I usually turn to none other than the older Planes of Chaos boxed set for the PLANESCAPE setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2009 : 14:55:46
|
I don't feel like going back a page and doing the 'quotey thing', but about my Spelljammer/Planescape comment -
I don't mean they will present us something new that is an amalgam of both, what I'm thinking is another setting-lite using Planescape as a basis, with some Spelljammer-esque stuff tacked on (like sailing the astral seas).
Sailing the astral sea and sailing into the Shadowfel to ge to other worlds are both late 3e, early 4e ideas, so it seems something they are interested in developing, at least a little.
I'm not talking about the Phlogiston (which may get translated into the Astral Mists) or any of the other space-faring junk; just the basic concept of hoping on a ship and sailing to another world (a'la Elric in Sailor on the Seas of Fate. With them down-playing portals and teleportaion magics now, it would make some sense if artifacts (like these ships) were now the main means of inter-planer travel.
The idea merges very well with whatever they plan for Ravenloft - the place was always surrounded by a sea of Mists, and now that its in the Shadowfel (and the Plane of Shadow was the only way in 3e to get to other worlds) it seems a no-brainer to run all three settings together, probaly producing a new MoP and a Ravenloft CG, and between the two we'll get our 'world-sailing' rules.
More like an after-thought then anything actually resembling old-school SJ (which I didn't care for - not in concept, but in execution).
The Big Picture...
Also, I think their new business model - a setting a year - also works well with world-hoping rules, since their goal is to get everyone to buy every setting, it would probably be a great idea to give us some setting-hoping rules along the way. We may even see an inter-connectivity closer to the 2e model then the 3e ever was, although not nearly as 'over-cosmolgy' as the Great Wheel was. These new players they are designing for want new 'shiney' every 12 months, but they don't want to give-up their 'Drizztbot 9000' characters, so it would be very smart to give those players a mechanic for transfering to a new world, especially if WotC does more then LFR. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 15 Mar 2009 15:13:42 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
The Descent Of The Realms
