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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Dec 2008 : 03:44:20
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This is my first post in your forums, and may well be my last. I have been a fan of the Realms for as long as I can remember, and have enjoyed stopping by to read through the scrolls on occasion.
I just finished reading through the 4th Edition Campaign Guide and I have to say I am thoroughly disgusted, as I see many of the scribes are as well. It is plain to me that the descent of the Realms which began with Wizards of the Coast and 3rd Edition has finaly reached its inevitable conclusion and gone off a cliff. It is nothing but a jumble of contrived plot lines thrown together to replace abandoned cannon.
While I have nothing but respect for Ed Greenwood (he has been my favorite contemporary author since I was in grade school) and hope he manages to salvage some small piece of his Realms, the only future I see for myself in with Realms products is re-reading old favorites and enjoying novels set in the realms' distant past. The current incarnation has discarded all of the rich and wonderfully developed characters I loved whose futures I looked forward to seeing penned.
As a result I have chosen to play ostrich and bury my head in the sand - I'll plant my imagination and campaign in the past. Maybe I'll even start playing with 2nd edition rules again just for spite.
I hope you all find some way to go on enjoying the realms so the profiteers at WOTC don't manage to wipe it out completely.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2008 : 05:02:35
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| -Yeah, you're not the first, and you probably won't be the last. Take solace that Rich Baker- contrary to popular belief- is not going to show up and take your old books. You have your memories, and you have your imagination. It's not much solace, I know, but it's better than nothing. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2008 : 06:08:10
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Me, I miss the days of 3rd ed...everything was becoming simpler and easier to explain, yet at the same time complex and interesting and flexible.
Now...you got World of Faruncraft.
*sigh* |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2008 : 15:01:30
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| I'm actually looking at this as a chance to broaden my horizons a bit and check out some other fantasy worlds. Since I no longer feel commited to reading every FR novel that comes out, I have more time to try out other novels--for example, I recently picked up the first of Ed's Falconfar novels. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Mr_Miscellany
Senior Scribe
545 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 04:52:24
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I'm sorry you feel that way, The Masked Mage.
Though I'm not terribly pleased with all that WotC had done, much less their rationale for doing it, I choose to take the advice Ed gave me privately and move on with the changes and make the most of them.
I currently run both a Third Edition and Fourth Edition D&D game in the Realms and we're having just as much fun as ever. Though much has changed, there's still a huge amount of un-mined potential in the (4E) Realms.
Should you ever come up for air, I hope you take the chance with a second look. Perhaps somewhere down the line WotC will have smoothed over the rough edges and made something good enough out of the Realms for you to reconsider.
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2008 : 08:07:37
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I'd say that the majority of people here agree with those sentiments, TMM. Still, the 2nd and 3rd edition books are still around on Ebay, which is nice.
Like Rino, I've been checking out other fantasy worlds, like Paizo's Golarion. It's pretty good. |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 02:43:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Arion Elenim
Now...you got World of Faruncraft.
*sigh*
Good one Arion. I just look at it as an opportunity to spend my hard earned jink somewhere else. Maybe we can get some more planar stuff out of the guys at Paizo. It won't be Planescape but if they could get DiTerlizzi or Post to do the artwork.... |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 04:13:06
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Maybe some day... but EVERY flushed out character in the realms (except Elminster who they managed to portray as completely hobbled - never mind that this new characiture completely departs from his personality) has been wiped out - even those from recent novels - who are now dead from old age. I'll most likely read anything E.G. or the other old writers put out for them in hopes they can give us some new characters to enjoy - but as far as 4th edition role playing, I see no point - as soon as I manage to get into this edition, they'll wipe it out and sell a new product and I'll have to start over.
Anyways, good luck with yours. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 04:14:25
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oops - that was for Mr_M.
Like I said, I don't normally post. |
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Kyrene
Senior Scribe
South Africa
757 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2008 : 14:06:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
oops - that was for Mr_M.
Like I said, I don't normally post.
Well you can go back and edit the previous to last post and then delete the one I quoted.
As for your OP, I agree with you and like Rino will now read and play other things. |
Lost for words? Find them in the Glossary of Phrases, Sayings & Words of the Realms
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2008 : 15:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger Maybe we can get some more planar stuff out of the guys at Paizo. It won't be Planescape but if they could get DiTerlizzi or Post to do the artwork....
Paizo's planar book for Golarion will be out in 2009.
And while it isn't Planescape, that's where a majority of my inspiration comes from in terms of general atmosphere to the planes, with a dash of flavor from my own style of running planar campaigns. And again, while it isn't branded with Planescape on the cover, Paizo has Colin McComb of the original PS design team writing the first planar module within the setting. I've read a good chunk of the draft, and it's awesome. Trust me on this. Vintage awesomeness. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2008 : 21:10:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger Maybe we can get some more planar stuff out of the guys at Paizo. It won't be Planescape but if they could get DiTerlizzi or Post to do the artwork....
Paizo's planar book for Golarion will be out in 2009.
And while it isn't Planescape, that's where a majority of my inspiration comes from in terms of general atmosphere to the planes, with a dash of flavor from my own style of running planar campaigns. And again, while it isn't branded with Planescape on the cover, Paizo has Colin McComb of the original PS design team writing the first planar module within the setting. I've read a good chunk of the draft, and it's awesome. Trust me on this. Vintage awesomeness.
Hmmm, do I trust the King of the Crosstrade? Well if I know what's good for me I guess I'd better  |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
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Gray Richardson
Master of Realmslore
USA
1291 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2008 : 18:07:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
[quote]Paizo's planar book for Golarion will be out in 2009.
I am greatly looking forward to this! They couldn't have picked a better person to flesh out their cosmology! I can't wait to read what lies within. And I hope it is extremely successful for you, so I can read ever more planar goodness from you in the future. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2008 : 19:01:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I'd say that the majority of people here agree with those sentiments, TMM...
I will add nothing about this discussion. We all have our opinion about the post-SP Realms and most of us miss the former ones. But that's the way business drove our (in fact: their !) Realms !
I'd like to know what TMM means in Uzzy's post please.
So I will add it to the Abreviations & acronyms topic
It was a reply to the original poster, I think. TMM are the initials of The Masked Mage.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 26 Dec 2008 : 23:41:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
[quote]Paizo's planar book for Golarion will be out in 2009.
I am greatly looking forward to this! They couldn't have picked a better person to flesh out their cosmology! I can't wait to read what lies within. And I hope it is extremely successful for you, so I can read ever more planar goodness from you in the future.
Oooh! I missed this earlier.
Sounds good Shem. Will you be able to share any potential details on this tome once we get closer to its release date?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2008 : 04:16:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Oooh! I missed this earlier.
Sounds good Shem. Will you be able to share any potential details on this tome once we get closer to its release date?
There are some details over on Planewalker http://www.planewalker.com/081007/pathfinder-planes-interview-with-todd-stewart and http://www.planewalker.com/081009/pathfinder-planes-interview-with-todd-stewart-part-2.
Hey Shemmy, thanks for spreading the chant, glad to see they got a top-shelf blood like yourself lanning them on the dark of things and not some sodding clueless berk from WOTC  .
Lots of that info seemed mighty interesting, I liked the russian doll idea, still able to work the paraelemental planes in that way, but how about the quasielemental ones?
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If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2008 : 05:02:02
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quote:
Originally posted by dwarvenranger
Lots of that info seemed mighty interesting, I liked the russian doll idea, still able to work the paraelemental planes in that way, but how about the quasielemental ones?
Well, derailing this thread a bit more - sorta. The quasielements are tricky, since the energy planes don't touch upon any of the elemental planes, just the material plane and shadow respectively for positive and negative. However when you get massive pure or mixed inclusions drifting between the nested shells of the elemental planes, you can get funky admixtures that might mimic the character of the original 1e/2e quasielementals. Not infinite in size, but an inclusion the size of solar system might as well be to a given group of mortal planewalkers. ;) |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2008 : 13:57:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy
Well, derailing this thread a bit more - sorta. The quasielements are tricky, since the energy planes don't touch upon any of the elemental planes, just the material plane and shadow respectively for positive and negative. However when you get massive pure or mixed inclusions drifting between the nested shells of the elemental planes, you can get funky admixtures that might mimic the character of the original 1e/2e quasielementals. Not infinite in size, but an inclusion the size of solar system might as well be to a given group of mortal planewalkers. ;)
Excellent idea Shemmy. More stuff for a certain dwarven member of the planewalkers guild to explore  Thanks! |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 18:03:51
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Take the 10-20% of decent material in the 4e Realms and backwards-engineer it into the 3e Realms. Its not all bad, but the over-abundance of bad tends to eclipse the few juicy tidbits you can find if you rumage around, and there's no sense letting those go to waste.
Then use whatever ruleset you prefer.
Edit: And DEFIANATELY ignore the assinine timeline advancment - that serves no purpose - not even the one they say was the reason (the Spellplague covered that quite well all by itself). That was done solely to give the authors more 'elbow room' to write in, and detracts from the game setting in every way imaginable. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Feb 2009 16:10:13 |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2009 : 18:46:15
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To the Masked Mage:
Don't miss the "Questions for Ed Greenwood" threads here at the Keep ("So Saith Ed" in their handy compilations). Ed has dispensed enough lore to fill a dozen or more printed TSR or WotC sourcebooks, since 2004, entirely for free . . . and I sure hope he'll go on doing so. (Almost all of it 3e and earlier, so far.)
So the Realms aren't dead to you, if you don't want them to be. And The Hooded One, who posts Ed's replies here, is one of his original players, so she's a source of great lore and anecdotes, too.
To Rino-F: I hear Ed's second Falconfar book, ARCH WIZARD, is soon to ship. He should be finished the third, FALCONFAR, by now.
And for those who like dark elves who aren't QUITE drow, he has a series out from Tor Books, too: DARK WARRIOR RISING and DARK VENGEANCE, so far.
Long live the Realms!
BB |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 14:59:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
To Rino-F: I hear Ed's second Falconfar book, ARCH WIZARD, is soon to ship. He should be finished the third, FALCONFAR, by now.
Thanks for the heads-up. And, I was thinking of trying out his dark elf series too. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 19:38:45
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
This is my first post in your forums, and may well be my last. I have been a fan of the Realms for as long as I can remember, and have enjoyed stopping by to read through the scrolls on occasion.
I just finished reading through the 4th Edition Campaign Guide and I have to say I am thoroughly disgusted, as I see many of the scribes are as well. It is plain to me that the descent of the Realms which began with Wizards of the Coast and 3rd Edition has finaly reached its inevitable conclusion and gone off a cliff. It is nothing but a jumble of contrived plot lines thrown together to replace abandoned cannon.
It's a question of where do we go from here. I, for one, have lots of books that I can now call a complete collection since The Realms have been nuked. But in the future the lack of new material that I will consider relevant means that I will probably drift of into another dice-related vice.
Is what we've seen with The Realms symptomatic of modern culture which seems to want to bring all things down to the lowest common denominator? The news is dumbed down and everyday is a sensational breaking news story. Modern movies think a large effects budget is a good story. I personally spend more time watching old B&W movies now because the stories are better. For example, In a Lonely Place is a great film because of the story.
Maybe with the advent of the internet and widespread use of "Messenger" programs people's attention spans are shorter. Yet books are still being published, bought and read. Whatever your feelings about Harry Potter, there are certainly a lot of people who bought a number of 500+ page novels recently. (Whether they read them is another thing though.)
I wish the changes never happened, but they did. A dear old friend is gone. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2009 : 20:10:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Blueblade
To Rino-F: I hear Ed's second Falconfar book, ARCH WIZARD, is soon to ship. He should be finished the third, FALCONFAR, by now.
Thanks for the heads-up. And, I was thinking of trying out his dark elf series too.
I am goin to read Dark Warrior Rising as soon as I finish the Twilight Giants trio.
I am also using 4e as my reason to branch out into new and different types of books. A few weeks ago was the first time I have not bought a new release FR novelas soon as I saw a copy on the shelf. In fact I was Lucky? enough to come across Plague of Spells at my reseller for $2 , but just couldn't buy it. Which is how I found Dark Warrior Rising in the next aisle! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 01:15:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I am goin to read Dark Warrior Rising as soon as I finish the Twilight Giants trio.
I am also using 4e as my reason to branch out into new and different types of books. A few weeks ago was the first time I have not bought a new release FR novelas soon as I saw a copy on the shelf. In fact I was Lucky? enough to come across Plague of Spells at my reseller for $2 , but just couldn't buy it. Which is how I found Dark Warrior Rising in the next aisle!
That is lucky. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 03:28:00
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quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
I am also using 4e as my reason to branch out into new and different types of books.
-That's kinda what I did. Most of the remaining Forgotten Realms novels that are out there that I haven't read yet that I am interested in reading aren't found in bookstores (the "rarer" old ones, in most cases). As such, when as I've gone to book stores, I've stopped going straight to the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section (My ban on Star Wars books didn't "help", either). Because of that, I've branched out into reading (dare I say) a lot more interesting stuff. Real stuff, anyway. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 05:49:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
As such, when as I've gone to book stores, I've stopped going straight to the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section
There are other sections in bookstores?!? 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2009 : 06:13:03
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-Thats news to me Wooly!
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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The Descent Of The Realms
