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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Nov 2008 : 16:49:03
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I have it all figured out, ladies and gents.
Mystra has been killed in order to bring about the new God of Magic, which will arrive shortly along with 5E D&D.
With Netheril back and its glroy returning, I give to you, the new Deity of Magic.............KARSUS!!!!!!
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Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Stout Heart
Learned Scribe
USA
118 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2008 : 18:57:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-Nope, not interested. Sorry. Been there, done that. Like my buddy Myrkul said- and, geeze, can that guy party!- , "Infinite cosmic power...Itty-bitty living space."
Lmao very funny I forgot about that until you said it. |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2008 : 19:32:34
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I'm writing a short story (that is quickly becoming a novel) where another version of the murder occurs. I feel guilty about it somehow...
:D |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Laerrigan
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2008 : 07:15:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I have it all figured out, ladies and gents.
Mystra has been killed in order to bring about the new God of Magic, which will arrive shortly along with 5E D&D.
With Netheril back and its glroy returning, I give to you, the new Deity of Magic.............KARSUS!!!!!!
Nice......  |
"Your 'reality,' sir, is lies and balderdash, and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever." (Baron Munchausen)
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was not made for this world." (C.S. Lewis, "Surprised by Joy") |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 03:43:13
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The real reason for all the changes is that people like Bruce Cordell and Rich baker were tire of getting raked over the coals everytime they screwed up the lore a bit. So, in order to avoid having to do research, they just got rid of the lore
Nobody believes this nonsense about "having to do this" to attract gamers who are afraid of the lore? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 03:56:12
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Okay, unless you have a direct quote and/or other specific information backing up this assertation, you either need to withdraw it or clearly state that it is an opinion.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Nov 2008 03:56:27 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 04:14:09
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
The real reason for all the changes is that people like Bruce Cordell and Rich baker were tire of getting raked over the coals everytime they screwed up the lore a bit. So, in order to avoid having to do research, they just got rid of the lore
Nobody believes this nonsense about "having to do this" to attract gamers who are afraid of the lore?
-Merrick please don't attack the FR Designers. It might be ok in other forums, but please not here, ok. 
-Hey they did bring back Bane at the start of 3E, so who knows what will happen when 5E arrives. 
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 04:45:47
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| I thought it was clear that it was an opinion |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
Edited by - MerrikCale on 14 Nov 2008 04:46:16 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 05:25:37
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Yeah... Ummmm... I kinda thought I left all that crap behind at WotC.
I'm sure we all have our theories (I know I have at least a hundred or so), but no-one's doing FR any favors by trashing it all the time.
And I really wish you'd leave poor RB out of this - he takes a lot of crap because he puts himself out there in the "ask the designers thread" - it takes a brave man to paint a target on his back like that. I sometimes think he may be the only in-house guy on our side.
And I think BC was just along for the ride... (hell, if someone wanted to publish every wacky idea I ever had I'd let them, and we'd have something a helluva lot worse then Ctorilhu).
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Hey they did bring back Bane at the start of 3E, so who knows what will happen when 5E arrives.
Bane = good thing.
His unpronouncable son = bad thing (and thank god they got rid of him)
The biggest mistake I think they made was NOT getting rid of Cyric - instead they allowed him to go "super-stalker" and murder Mystra.
Hmmmm... I just realized there was RW parallel there... why thats almost NEWS worthy. 
Anyhow, if they would have just axed Cyric and Kelemvor and brought back Myrkul and Baal I would have been a very happy camper - almost happy enough to forgive the rest of 4e's lore. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Nov 2008 05:29:37 |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 05:43:31
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Don't you dare mock Yachtooth Zivim! Zimiv. Vixim.
*cough* |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 06:22:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Bane = good thing.
His unpronouncable son = bad thing (and thank god they got rid of him)
Hey, I liked Xvim! That's why I favor the theory that Bane is still dead, and Xvim is impersonating him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 06:24:55
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Did you ever actually play in an FR game and try to use him?
I did... I just kept referring to him as 'Invader Xim'.
And to partially quote one of my favorite Tommy Lee Jones lines from MIB -
"Bane isn't dead, son... he just went home"
(The joke, of course, referencing him now going 'Core') |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Nov 2008 06:27:01 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 07:20:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Did you ever actually play in an FR game and try to use him?
Nope... according to my DM at the time, Bane returned a lot earlier than he did in canon, and when he showed up he used the upstart Xvim as an example to terrify Cyric into subservience (you *don't* want to know what actually happened to Xvim. You just don't.) and then set about activating a complex divine contingency previously implemented by the Dark Three to restore Bhaal and Myrkul, who promptly went medieval on Kelemvor, reclaiming their divine portfolios and denying Cyric his final revenge. Again.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 14 Nov 2008 07:21:30 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 11:26:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Bane = good thing.
His unpronouncable son = bad thing (and thank god they got rid of him)
Hey, I liked Xvim! That's why I favor the theory that Bane is still dead, and Xvim is impersonating him.
I'm definately with you on that theory Wooly |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 12:24:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Bane = good thing.
His unpronouncable son = bad thing (and thank god they got rid of him)
Hey, I liked Xvim! That's why I favor the theory that Bane is still dead, and Xvim is impersonating him.
I did exactly that in one of my campaign. The players never saw it coming.
As for Karsus, meh. I usually refer to him as "Karsus the fool", thinking he could handle so much power just because he had the talent to steal it. But I think it would be interesting to have a "main" god of magic who his actually evil. (not that I think that Karsus was evil) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 13:36:37
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I thought it was clear that it was an opinion
-I understand that. See the link in my sig. Look at Section 5.
-We all know Cyric is the Greatest! But that is another persona 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 14:39:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I thought it was clear that it was an opinion
-I understand that. See the link in my sig. Look at Section 5.
BRIMSTONE
very well.
Let me say this as I do not believe this is offensive to the designers, but its what I was saying in a non-"smart alec" way
Rich Baker and Bruce Cordell were bashed excessively for lore hiccups with the Last Mythal and Depths of Madness in particular. I personally like Rich Baker as an author, enjoyed the Last Mythal and thought the bashing was a bit nitpicking. But I would think that some of that had to been an influence in the decision to essentially remove the lore from the setting. Mystra is a very important aspect of that lore.
Is that better? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 14:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Rich Baker and Bruce Cordell were bashed excessively for lore hiccups with the Last Mythal and Depths of Madness in particular.
You mean Darkvision? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Darkhund
Acolyte
34 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 16:22:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The biggest mistake I think they made was NOT getting rid of Cyric - instead they allowed him to go "super-stalker" and murder Mystra.
Anyhow, if they would have just axed Cyric and Kelemvor and brought back Myrkul and Baal I would have been a very happy camper - almost happy enough to forgive the rest of 4e's lore.
In any of my campaigns, Cyric is dead. Llira killed him, and has been impersonating him, not him killing her and taking her portfolios. I mean, she's the goddess of illusion. If she can't do it, who could? |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3740 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 17:11:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
As for Karsus, meh. I usually refer to him as "Karsus the fool", thinking he could handle so much power just because he had the talent to steal it. But I think it would be interesting to have a "main" god of magic who his actually evil. (not that I think that Karsus was evil)
-Hey, hey, you watch it there. It's not nice to call people who could destroy you with but a thought a 'fool'. Some of the Hands have been a little restless lately, as it is... |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 18:40:41
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I thought it was clear that it was an opinion
-I understand that. See the link in my sig. Look at Section 5.
BRIMSTONE
very well.
Let me say this as I do not believe this is offensive to the designers, but its what I was saying in a non-"smart alec" way
Rich Baker and Bruce Cordell were bashed excessively for lore hiccups with the Last Mythal and Depths of Madness in particular. I personally like Rich Baker as an author, enjoyed the Last Mythal and thought the bashing was a bit nitpicking. But I would think that some of that had to been an influence in the decision to essentially remove the lore from the setting. Mystra is a very important aspect of that lore.
Is that better?
-See now isn't that nice. Don't you feel better when your posts aren't all angsty emo. I know I feel better when my posts over here aren't all angsty and emo.
-Kinda like me D?
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 18:51:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
quote:
Originally posted by Kilvan
As for Karsus, meh. I usually refer to him as "Karsus the fool", thinking he could handle so much power just because he had the talent to steal it. But I think it would be interesting to have a "main" god of magic who his actually evil. (not that I think that Karsus was evil)
-Hey, hey, you watch it there. It's not nice to call people who could destroy you with but a thought a 'fool'. Some of the Hands have been a little restless lately, as it is...
Bah, he's a vestige now, not even a good one. What could possibly happen? Anyway, I just picture Karsus as really powerful, really smart, but not very wise. So, he would not make a good god of magic IMO. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 18:55:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-See now isn't that nice. Don't you feel better when your posts aren't all angsty emo. I know I feel better when my posts over here aren't all angsty and emo.
<snip>
I know that I've felt better since ditching the angsty emo.
Regarding the OP: I've done something similar in my Realms, except that Mystra is still alive. The divine struggle between Mystra and Shar, resulting in the Shadow Weave being absorbed into the Weave, also reawakens Karsus... but his awareness is still trapped inside his immobile stone corpse.
Btw: Does anybody know why his stone corpse wasn't transported to the Astral Morgue like all other dead divinities? Is that something to do with his "home plane" being Toril?  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 19:05:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Rich Baker and Bruce Cordell were bashed excessively for lore hiccups with the Last Mythal and Depths of Madness in particular.
You mean Darkvision?
oops, yes I do |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 19:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
I thought it was clear that it was an opinion
-I understand that. See the link in my sig. Look at Section 5.
BRIMSTONE
very well.
Let me say this as I do not believe this is offensive to the designers, but its what I was saying in a non-"smart alec" way
Rich Baker and Bruce Cordell were bashed excessively for lore hiccups with the Last Mythal and Depths of Madness in particular. I personally like Rich Baker as an author, enjoyed the Last Mythal and thought the bashing was a bit nitpicking. But I would think that some of that had to been an influence in the decision to essentially remove the lore from the setting. Mystra is a very important aspect of that lore.
Is that better?
-See now isn't that nice. Don't you feel better when your posts aren't all angsty emo. I know I feel better when my posts over here aren't all angsty and emo.
-Kinda like me D?
BRIMSTONE
to be honest, I am having a hard time getting rid of my angst and bitterness |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 19:09:48
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-Do you need a big hug? Candlekeep group hug for Merrick! 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 19:14:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
-Do you need a big hug? Candlekeep group hug for Merrick!
BRIMSTONE
Mystra's last words:
"Never trust a touchy-feely Cyricist." |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2008 : 19:16:36
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-I thought her last words were gurgle?
-Hum...I never got that memo. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Topic |
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The REAL reason for Mystra's death
