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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Aug 2023 : 13:06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhufus
Are there any structures like keeps or anything still in Impiltur that was built by the Narfel empire? Besides demon cysts of course.
Openly? No. There are a few hidden in the Earthfast Mountains though, and of course there is Dun Orthass - the Citadel of Conjurers. Although its post-Spellplague fate is still a matter of conjecture.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2477 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2023 : 02:51:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhufus
Are there any structures like keeps or anything still in Impiltur that was built by the Narfel empire?
Which leads to the question of Narathmault, which led to this whole mess. As well as lesser settlements / outpost / vaults of Riildath. How much is left of those ruins long after the Nar plundered them for fiend-related magic?
I mean, it's old, yet even Miyeritar left ruins (surface was scourged, of course, but some structures below the ground remained in Undermoor). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2023 : 14:34:39
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Narathmault is Dun Tharos - or more correctly the underground ways of Narathmault are Dun Tharos. The elves of Lethyr removed most of the old surface vestiges of that place when it was claimed and then the druids of Leth cleaned up the Narfelli stuff after the Great Conflagration. There's lots of stuff under the woodlands but the ways under were assiduously blocked up by the elves and druids. For safety reasons. of course.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12028 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2023 : 14:49:55
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On Narathmault / Dun-Tharos there was novel, Lady of Poison, that delves the ruins a little tiny bit. I can't recall much though, other than it naming some of the entrapped beings.
At one point we were doing some non-canon creation here... setting Narathmault as a follow on civilization from an earlier society of hags (they called the place Bheuristahl) and having the hags seizing the place from the great spirit spider "Chupoclops" which is a vestige in Tome of Magic.
This was specific to narathmault
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18551
This was an add on conversation where we were proposing that at one point the links to the spirit realm that exist in Kara-tur extended further west into the Unapproachable east and bloodstone lands (and this would be why Rashemen is the way it is), and it delves the idea of the hag city of Bheuristahl and Chupoclops more.
http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18675&whichpage=3 |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 03 Aug 2023 14:56:13 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2023 : 01:39:01
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I've recently come up with an alternative reason for the hag presence in Rashemen and all will be revealed hopefully soonish.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12028 Posts |
Posted - 04 Aug 2023 : 13:54:58
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I've recently come up with an alternative reason for the hag presence in Rashemen and all will be revealed hopefully soonish.
-- George Krashos
Would love to read it, and can probably worm it into the other idea as well. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2023 : 04:24:46
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| Thank you George for your reply, i have gotten another question for you that has just recently come to my mind that ive been thinking on. In your Impiltur timeline in the year 727 it sated that Vedrymmell fell when the few high mages unsuccessfully try to create a mythal and in the 3rd forgotten realms campaign book it has this paragraph on the grey forest about this area where there are these circles of trees that was said to be elves that turned themselves into those trees and i was wondering if maybe these two things where the same thing that maybe that was the result of the failed high magic being cast that everyone involved in that casting got transformed into those trees? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2023 : 04:32:00
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quote:
Originally posted by kysus
Thank you George for your reply, i have gotten another question for you that has just recently come to my mind that ive been thinking on. In your Impiltur timeline in the year 727 it sated that Vedrymmell fell when the few high mages unsuccessfully try to create a mythal and in the 3rd forgotten realms campaign book it has this paragraph on the grey forest about this area where there are these circles of trees that was said to be elves that turned themselves into those trees and i was wondering if maybe these two things where the same thing that maybe that was the result of the failed high magic being cast that everyone involved in that casting got transformed into those trees?
Very perceptive Kysus. Yes, the tree circles are the remnants of the High Magi of Vedrymmell and other citizens of that realm affected by the backlash of the failed mythal ritual.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 06 Aug 2023 04:33:44 |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2023 : 06:34:37
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| George the failure to cast that high magic ritual do you think its cause was do to a lack of sufficient amount of highmages needed for the casting or a lack of experience among the few high mages that were present for the casting? or something different maybe like them making mistakes while trying to rush and get the ritual completed before the scaled horde made it to them? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2023 : 16:38:47
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It was a combination of rushing/lack of preparedness and lack of sufficiently experienced High Mages, with many of the senior ones having joined the fight against the Army of Darkness to save Myth Drannor and perished in that terrible conflict.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12028 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2023 : 13:09:54
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Hey, how many "Dun" places did you guys come up with for Narfell out of curiosity? What it just Dun-Tharos (i.e. Narathmault) and Dun-Orthass (i.e. Citadel of Conjurers)
Was thinking it might be interesting to have some "fallen" citadels of Narfell (and just to play on the naming trick that was done... maybe a Dun-Arthos, a Dun-Sorath, a Dun-Ratosh, a Dun-Hastor, etc..) scattered across the bloodstone lands. Maybe some of them are even "fallen and rebuilt over" with some hidden danger still lurking that people don't realize. Maybe even we find out that the Castle of the Witch King Zhengyi (i.e. Castle Perilous) was one such place. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Aug 2023 13:11:41 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2023 : 23:23:50
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I've only ever done one, new "Dun". No reason there can't be more. Although I would confine "Duns" to citadels. Smaller castles and fortresses should be "Vals" in my book.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12028 Posts |
Posted - 21 Aug 2023 : 18:18:28
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I've only ever done one, new "Dun". No reason there can't be more. Although I would confine "Duns" to citadels. Smaller castles and fortresses should be "Vals" in my book.
-- George Krashos
I like that idea of Narfellians using different beginnings of names for their "forts" versus their "citadels". That brings up an idea in my mind too that perhaps Raumathar would do something similar. Might be worth reviewing that story in GHotR that details the fall of both since I know that it introduced some terms that were vague (hortha, drith, sarnar, Arkhan, etc...) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2023 : 12:59:53
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Not vague at all. You just don’t speak Narfelli.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12028 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2023 : 15:55:31
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Not vague at all. You just don’t speak Narfelli.
— George Krashos
Right and we don't have a definition in the article (though there's probably one in this thread if I dig... and I was probably the one that asked and I've forgotten the answer). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2023 : 13:35:36
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The Narfelli words are:
Sarn/sarnar: year/years
Hortha: aspect of an extra-planar being
Drith: demon(s)
Drithdarkar: demonbinders
Urhortha: avatar of a god or actual extra-planar being
(the "hortha" and "urhortha" distinction reflected the 3E use of "aspects")
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12028 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2023 : 17:28:46
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Narfelli words are:
Sarn/sarnar: year/years
Hortha: aspect of an extra-planar being
Drith: demon(s)
Drithdarkar: demonbinders
Urhortha: avatar of a god or actual extra-planar being
(the "hortha" and "urhortha" distinction reflected the 3E use of "aspects")
-- George Krashos
So, just like English, its probably not an exacting science.... but we might take from this that the suffix "ar" is equivalent to the English "s" put at the end of a word to make it plural (so a demonbinder may be a drithdark, and if someone were to speak of "forts" they might say "valar"). Similarly, and this is much less likely, "ur" may be a prefix used to mean "greater" like we use "super" or "fore"... though it may only be a term used in reference to creatures, etc... such that a "greater binding circle" may be referred to as an "urdark ring".
Somewhat similarly... rather than UR... the Raumathari may use AR as a prefix to mean the same thing (drawing this from the term "The Arkhan of Raumathar"). So, lesser leaders in Raumathar might have been Khan.... which is later further degraded into Khahan in the hordelands.
Making some further suppositions (i.e. pulling stuff out my ass).... perhaps some of this Raumathari language carried over into the language of Thay later. We see that the prefix Au is used in that language to mean "lesser" (i.e. you have the Tharchion and the autharchs under him). Similarly, the Khan as a local magistrate over a town may have become a Khazark. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 24 Aug 2023 18:01:51 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2023 : 06:15:32
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In my Realms, Thayan is predominately Mulan influenced by Turmic (the Turami). The "purest" reflection of the ancient Raumathari tongue is Rashemi. Elements of Raumathari are also present in the Damaran tongue, which I consider is a polyglot of ancient Chondathan, Nar, and Raumathari.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2024 : 03:48:49
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| George would you have anymore information on the ruling family or families of the elven realm of Vedrymmell? like who were the ruling families at its height of power and if any of these families are still around or extinct? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2024 : 22:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by kysus
George would you have anymore information on the ruling family or families of the elven realm of Vedrymmell? like who were the ruling families at its height of power and if any of these families are still around or extinct?
I haven't drilled down into the ruling family of Vedrymmel. A leading noble house was that of Mornthael.
After the fall of the realm, the largest and most senior remaining family was that of Aernthraar, and they came to the aid of Imphras the Great in his battle with the hobgoblins. A current clan of moon elves is that of Moonshimmer (Teuserlar in elvish) and they have familial ties with the ruling Heltharn royal family.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2024 : 20:49:52
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| Is house Mornthael still around anywhere in faerun or are they an extinct house now? also what ever happened to Taredd Mornthael, as the realms chief mage of that realm he would seem to be pretty interesting to know more of his back story. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2024 : 06:40:45
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No reason there wouldn't be surviving members of the family residing in the Cormanthor woodland or the Grey Forest. They weren't wiped out, just are now small in number and no longer a power.
As for Taredd, he passed on to Arvandor three or so centuries after the events of 178 DR.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2024 : 04:14:08
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| George i have another question for you on the elven kingdom of Vedrymmel. Did this kingdom have a capital city per say and what might its name had been? How big of a kingdom population wise would you say it was during its height? I want to think that it was a very small kingdom with a small city as a capital surrounded by villages that moved around alot probably built on older elven ruins from the time of larlotha but with the presence of multiple high mages also makes me think that the realm was bigger than what i would have thought to warrant a number of high mages to reside there. I also could be wrong on both accounts as i dont really know what constitutes a elven realm to have a high mage in resident or not. sorry im starting to ramble on now in my own thoughts. Ive been preparing to start up my campaign again and i eventually want my players to do some exploring of the greyforest and its environments so ive been collecting every bit of lore i can from your articles and posts for this endeavor. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2024 : 22:39:03
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Vedrymmel was founded by refugees from Rilithar, who had experienced the fact of their capital - Sharandar - become a target for outside forces. They did not make this error again, and so there was no formal capital for this new realm. They did have a main settlement, Halathaerl, which is where external visitors (such as the people of Impiltur) would visit. The ruler would travel from settlement to settlement, setting up a tent pavilion to entertain guests and those who sought his/her wisdom, with the rotation period lessened in the winter months. This moving "capital" was called Coroanlereth by the elves (literally throne of moss, as the reigning ruler would do "business" from a moss covered rock that would be created by magic whenever they decided to stop for a time). This situation was supplemented by an old magic of Illefarn, the Luracaunt, a magical gem that gave access to a demiplane, used as a refuge when Illefarn fell under the dark hegemony of the Vyshaan. The demiplane was used for storage (and refuge as needed - such as for inclement weather) and so allowed the monarch, his family, guards and retainers to "travel light".
The fact that Vedrymmel was founded by refugees from Rilithar meant that it had more High Mages than it otherwise might have. This was due to the Mornthael clan, who had a strong magical tradition, and would routinely provide the High Mage/wizard who acted as the realm's Faergaunt (effectively, the royal wizard). This clan was the true power in the realm, as the position of ruler of Vedrymmel was not a hereditary one, but an office where the elders of the various settlements of the realm all voted to elect a new ruler on the death or resignation of the incumbent.
At its height, factoring in its half-elf population, Vedrymmel would have mustered some 10,000 or so souls, so it was never a big realm.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 17 Aug 2024 22:39:27 |
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kysus
Learned Scribe
USA
116 Posts |
Posted - 20 Aug 2024 : 04:16:21
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That makes sense seeing that they came from another elven realm they would have had access to alot of resources. With the royal wizard being called Faergaunt, did their leader of the realm have a title as well? Also the Luracaunt is really interesting is there anymore you might have on this relic of Illefarn, like what was the demiplane like that it accessed or how the gem might have worked and if there were other gems similiar to it? I kinda picture the demiplane a small forest citadel built of a giant tree that contained quarters to sleep in and rooms to store supplies and food for those hiding in it, maybe the demiplane being a small forest in twilight perhaps with the citadel in the center.
It seems the Mornthael clan has had a sorta sad fall from grace it would seem, I assume that due to varies wars whittling down their numbers and the coming of the scaled horde that cause the failed high magic ritual kinda sealed their fate. With them being so reduced in number do you see them having any members that have attained highmage status and keeping it secret or would all of their highmages had been lost either from aiding Myth Drannor or being lost in the failed ritual? I wonder if with this clan being so attuned to magic if they had left behind any of that magical legacy behind in the form of selu'kiira or libraries for any of their future generations to learn from?
Also i wanted to thank you for taking the time to reply to my queries, i do appreciate that you take time to give answers to my questions even if the subject is on elves which im sure those kind of questions have been done to death by now lol.
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Edited by - kysus on 20 Aug 2024 04:21:05 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2024 : 01:22:37
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The title of the ruler of Vedrymmel was "corlereth".
Your ideas re what the Luracaunt "insides" may have looked like seem perfectly fine. Do what suits.
The Mornthael High Mages were either lost in the Weeping War or during the failed mythal ritual that spelled the realm's doom. No trace of any Mornthael selu'kiira is noted, although it is likely that one might be found in the environs of Myth Drannor or the surrounding woodlands. The surviving Mornthaels went to Evereska. They remain magically talented, but few in number. Not enough to be a noble family in that city, even if they could claim such status, which is doubtful. Family tales do however speak of the Imbradiir, a stone golem studded with gems that held spells that could be unleashed by those who knew the correct command words. The Imbradiir was lost when Vedrymmel fell with some believing that it was commanded to flee into the nearby Earthfast Mountains where it lies quiescent to this day, or alternatively, commanded to burrow into the earth where it now "sleeps" beneath the tree roots of the Grey Forest. Yet others claim that it was taken by the demons of the Scaled Horde and now lies in some secret vault in the environs of Impiltur. As with all such things, truth and conjecture are a hazy thing.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rhufus
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2024 : 20:03:27
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
It was a combination of rushing/lack of preparedness and lack of sufficiently experienced High Mages, with many of the senior ones having joined the fight against the Army of Darkness to save Myth Drannor and perished in that terrible conflict.
-- George Krashos
Is the failed Mythal ritual the location of Alithyn's Copse? Also do you have any additional information about the city the Moonelves lived in inside Gray Forest? |
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Rhufus
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2024 : 20:28:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Oh my god. I thought I had all your impiltur lore to date and yet here is something over a decade old that I knew nothing about. Now I am worried about what other goodies I may have missed in my reluctance to master the realms L archive before it's destruction.
I sincerely hope you find other such goodies once posted there and share them here to give them an audience once more.
I like the secret name of amaunator and the bit about verraketh, I hope you won't mind if I use them. Inspired lore as always
What boggles my mind is why a talented author hasn't taken all of George's details and written a compelling story during this time period. It is filled with so much detail it is just begging to be brought to life. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2477 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2024 : 18:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Rhufus
What boggles my mind is why a talented author hasn't taken all of George's details and written a compelling story during this time period. It is filled with so much detail it is just begging to be brought to life.
This one already was answered many times: because the authors are not the ones who choose where, what and who the books will be about, and whether there will be one at all. See also this.
And even if it somehow makes through the preliminary selection, see the fate of that Daggerdale story here and Spellfire here and here. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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netlich
Acolyte
Greece
5 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2025 : 21:16:14
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Wow! Is this thread still alive?!?! I have been running an Impilturian AD&D 2nd edition campaign on and off for 3 years now even though it originally started in 2018. Candlekeep forums and especially the entries here have really helped me kickstart much of my research! A big thank you to all the scribes hard at work!!!!
I should have summoned a guardian daemon to watch for updates I guess!!!! :D
I will still ask one question that has made me shed many a tear! What is wrong with all those maps out there for the poor kingdom of Impiltur? I still keep finding new ones - and reconciling differences! Did the original works here in the forums end somewhere? And is that somhwere posted online? |
An Oerthian lich in Abeir-Toril.... oh my! |
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Questions for George Krashos
