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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2017 : 21:24:57
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Hi George,
Just had a random thought regarding your excellent article; Jergal Lord of the End of Everything.
In it you create a link between the mighty Imaskar magic and the Nether Scrolls. Now whether inadvertent or not this means that two thirds of every human, major magical empire was influenced by the Nether scrolls (Netheril and all its successors, and Imaskar and all its successors).
That leaves only one major human empire unaccounted for that was also suddenly skyrocketed to success and magical supremacy in a few (comparatively short) centuries: Jhaamdath.
Have you thought of how one might link Jhaamdath to the Nether Scrolls. I was originally thinking the stolen set of Nether Scrolls could be used with Jhaamdath, but unfortunately the Udoxias (which seem obviously the Jhaamdath transformed version of the scrolls) were created before Netheril.
That leaves either the Jhaam received the scrolls before the Netherese, or something else.
Any thoughts
And it may just be me but I do not regard psionics as different from magic. Ed originally made wild talents just an inherent magical ability (like a sorcerer has but with less mastery and control). Perhaps the Jhaamdath were infused with magic and spread this genetic magic talent across the realms but also the most successful families had a more mind magic orientated.
I also coined a Jhaam language explanation "Psion" (pronounced Sune) means magic, and cist (pronounced kissed) means talent. Which got basta*dised into psionicist in common (and mispronounced) but the Netherese word (sorcerer) is much more prevalent and widely used so psionicist is now associated only with mind magic.
Not a rules compatible explanation I know but I don't use D&D rules.
So any thoughts?
I was personally reaching for the discovery of some prototype baetith creation found or perhaps a tomb containing the bodies of those that became the nether scrolls. Something that was an early version of the scrolls or a byproduct of its creation. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2017 : 06:51:00
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I haven't crystallised my thoughts re Jhaamdath just quite yet, but just like Mulhorand and Unther, I consider that there is a significant amount of historical back-filling required, both internally and externally. I don't think that the Nether Scrolls have a role to play here but the prevalence of the "Invisible Art" (my Realms doesn't use the term "psionics") has to be explained somehow. I'd always thought I'd get to this eventually - in terms of trying to come up with some history and an explanation - but that won't be for quite a while yet. What triggers the "Invisible Art" hotspot here: illithids, psionic dragons (i.e. gem dragons), something "external" to the Realms ... well, there are lots of options. One thing is clear in my mind though: Laszik Silvermind wasn't human.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 08 Jul 2017 06:51:31 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2017 : 08:14:58
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The history of toiletries in Impiltur has a unique and essential fundamental base: the fruit of the stubby, evergreen sibar tree, thought to be an adapted offshoot of the garal tree found throughout the Vilhon Reach and the Old Empires. It was brought to the lands of the Easting Reach by Jhaamdathi settlers over a thousand years ago, and they kept it tightly pruned and cropped short as a defence against the colder climate of these more northern lands. Over time, the tree developed a tougher bark to combat the winters and went into a dormant phase over the coldest months, its normally dark green ovoid leaves taking on a darker, almost purple shade before resuming their normal coloration with the Spring.
Always rare (as the trees produce fruit only every second year - the garal fruits every year in the South), the purple sibar fruit produces a light, sweet-smelling oil when pressed - the fruit has a pit - that has seen use for centuries as the base for cosmetics, perfumes and soap. The scent of sibar oil has been variously described as "fresh" and "citrus" and when aged "warm" and "smooth". The scent of the sibar is long-lasting and heady in its concentrated form.
The greatest concentration of sibar trees can be found around Lyrabar and along the coast as far east as Hlammach. A few sibar groves exist outside of Impiltur, one notable one near Tsurlagol that claims to be "an original planting", but the tree struggles to fruit in climes from the Moonsea northwards. Similarly, the tree does not self-pollinate and the ratio of "male" to "female" trees is roughly 1:8 so transplanting the tree or growing it from seeds can be a challenging exercise. The tale of the merchant Paragard of Thesk who planted a huge sibar orchard near Phsant over a century ago from seed is cautionary. He had the ill fortune to have a very low ratio of male trees propagate meaning that after waiting a decade for the trees to mature, he was able to harvest fruit only once in every 5 years or so, leading to the eventual loss of his wealth and business.
A "hand" of sibar fruit (the weights and measures used in the lands of the Easting Reach is a topic to be delved into on another day) will cost an individual some 3-5gp, while a "tilik" of the purest oil can fetch upwards of 50gp. It remains an expensive and sought-after commodity, and has spawned an industry for high-end toiletries in Impiltur that sees them exported around the Inner Sea. The industry has also brought to the fore several celebrities such as the perfumer Gandryl "Fairbreeze" Olantrim of Lyrabar and the "fleshmason" Irindrar Eversun of that same city whose skill at creating and applying cosmetics sees his services in constant demand from the female nobility of the realm and on occasion, the Queen-Regent herself.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2017 : 12:06:31
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Well, it was a special request by Markustay ...   
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rivenhelm
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2017 : 03:13:22
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Sorry to hear about that George!! I know you were looking forward to attending. Would have been cool to meet ya and chat, but things happen. I'm still not entirely sure I'll make it myself! Hope all is well with you, and that it's not something serious preventing you from going.
Take care,
R... |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2017 : 01:20:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Rivenhelm
Sorry to hear about that George!! I know you were looking forward to attending. Would have been cool to meet ya and chat, but things happen. I'm still not entirely sure I'll make it myself! Hope all is well with you, and that it's not something serious preventing you from going.
Take care,
R...
Nothing serious, just other people's travel plans! I'm hoping to get to GENCON next year. Fingers crossed.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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lsls
Acolyte
34 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2017 : 08:59:04
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Hi George,
I have just finished your Jergal article and enjoy it very much.
In the article you mentioned the lich-king Thanar,Realm of Cold Death and Clan Runeaxe(I supposed it was a dwarf clan).Can you provide more information about them? |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jul 2017 : 11:30:33
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quote:
Originally posted by lsls
Hi George,
I have just finished your Jergal article and enjoy it very much.
In the article you mentioned the lich-king Thanar,Realm of Cold Death and Clan Runeaxe(I supposed it was a dwarf clan).Can you provide more information about them?
The information regarding the lich-king Thanar, the Realm of Cold Death and Clan Runeaxe was work undertaken by Eric Boyd and myself as a spin-off from his Under Illefarn Anew project, mentioned here at the 'Keep a time or two. As part of that offshoot project, which delved into the history of the High Forest and its environs, we mapped out some historical detail for Delzoun, Sharrven, Siluvanede and Eaerlann. Thanar et al was part of that.
It's non-canon, and given that it was mostly Eric Boyd's brainchild, I'm not a liberty to divulge anything more. It might see the light of day in time to come. I'm trying to find the time to update my North Timeline with a view to releasing it on the DMs Guild, which would incorporate a lot of that stuff, but ... so many projects, so little time ...
Take the references and spin them into realmslore that suits you and your game/vision of the Realms. It's what we did, and your version would be just as good as ours. Cheers.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Duneth Despana
Learned Scribe
Belgium
273 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2017 : 09:54:43
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| Is there anywhere to get my hands on these two articles of yours while we wait for them to be re-hosted by Ed? http://realmssecretariat.com/gauntlgrym/ & http://realmssecretariat.com/jergal/ . Maybe there's a spot in Alaundo's Library for them? Thanks for the wonderful lore! |
« There is no overriding « epic » in the Realms, but rather a large number of stories, adventures, and encounters going on all the time. [...]. Each creative mind adds to the base, creating, defining, and making their contribution to the rich diversity of the Realms. [...]. But Ed built the stage upon which all the plays are presented. Thanks Ed. » -FR Comic no.1
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2017 : 01:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Hi George
I just read through Dragon 346 and noticed a reference to the Artstave of Alithar. Is this the same Alithar in your Jergal article?
If so nice easter egg. I wonder now wonder how long you had been working on the Jergal/Netheril stuff.
It's nice when people pay attention.
Oh and I've been working on many things. For decades in some instances.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2017 : 01:06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Hi George,
I was just musing after reading dragon 346 further and your impiltur article.
It seems like Prince Thaum's nephew (is it Imphras IV, i cant remember) has a lot of potential for intrigue.
Does he have any influence at court or among the lords of imphras or even among the nobles and merchants.
Does anyone have access to him personally (or by proxy via agents or remotely using magic).
Are there any plotting to use him in their machinations. It strikes me that if the current king and queen regent were found unfit then the crown prince would be a valuable asset to have in your counsel and debt.
Well maybe, except for the fact that he's dead. And he was Thaum's son, not nephew. He died with King Rilimbrar. To legitimise Sambryl's ascension as "Queen-Regent" he was adjudged to have died AFTER Rilimbrar, therefore making him king and Sambryl queen and then installing her as regent. The Impilturian monarchy follows a male succession except when there are no male heirs (which has happened a few times). When a male appears, that individual becomes the titular monarch in a ceremony called the Forecrowning, but power is invested in the regency until that male turns 16, when they rule in their own right. Clear as mud? Thought so.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 22 Jul 2017 01:32:50 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2017 : 01:31:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Duneth Despana
Is there anywhere to get my hands on these two articles of yours while we wait for them to be re-hosted by Ed? http://realmssecretariat.com/gauntlgrym/ & http://realmssecretariat.com/jergal/ . Maybe there's a spot in Alaundo's Library for them? Thanks for the wonderful lore!
PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send them to you.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2017 : 01:33:58
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Impilturian monarchy follows a male succession except when there are no male heirs (which has happened a few times). When a male appears, that infividual become the titular monarch in a ceremony called the Forecrowning, but power is invested in the regency until that male turns 16, when they rule in their own right. Clear as mud? Thought so.
-- George Krashos
This entreats me, the female rules until a male appears. Is the male the female's descendant or can cousins or others of same generation provide the male? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2017 : 09:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
This entreats me, the female rules until a male appears. Is the male the female's descendant or can cousins or others of same generation provide the male?
Others of the same or later generations count. All they have to be is male, of the royal bloodline and next in the line of succession. The Heltharns of Impiltur have a very tangled web of successors given that Imphras II married twice and had 7 sons.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2017 : 13:59:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Ooh. So if the boy king were to die (or be deposed for madness or treason) then things could get very interesting.
Could we pretty please have a spotlight on some other living members of the royal lineage when you have a few hours free. It would be nice to see what intrigues are ongoing that may involve these claimants (whether they know it or not)
This information has been posted earlier in this thread but it is repeated and consolidated for ease of reference:
Queen-Regent Sambryl is the ruling monarch of the realm. She is queen because she married her traitorous cousin Imphras IV (who was king in name only and due to the circumstances of his demise only so for a titular moment in time), and regent because she was forced into the role when Imphras IV died and there were no male Heltharns in the succession who were 16 years of age and could rule in their own right.
When Rilimbrar and Imphras IV died at the same time, it was thought by the Lords, the Mage Royal and the most senior and trusted nobles that Sambryl had to stay on as Regent for continuity, given the love held for her father by the people of the realm. It was originally intended that she would be freed from her burden of duty when Imphras IV died and a new Heltharn scion placed on the throne, but it didn't quite pan out that way.
I should note that Impiltur has a rather unique system in that it doesn't allow child monarchs; well, not in the classic sense of the word. To rule you need to be 16. That's when you have your formal coronation and are declared king (or more rarely queen). Before that, if you are not of age, you are marked for kingship by a ceremony known as the Forecrowning (and if you don't get to 16 years of age are marked down as rightful king and placed in the lineage on a retroactive basis) but you have no power at all and do not wear the Crown of Narfell, even on full ceremonial occasions. Instead they wear the Crown of Tears, created at the request of King Erynd for his son Nord in 787 DR.
Sambryl does indeed want to relinquish her regency - she never wanted the job in the first place - but she has been the target of an extremely subtle and concerted campaign of subversion and manipulation by Soneillon, which has messed around with her mind a bit. Depending on what power Soneillon can bring to bear at the time Imbrar comes to the throne, it may turn Sambryl into an unwitting tool of the demonic forces she has battled for so long to keep at bay.
As for he sense of unity among the Council of Lords, II wouldn't describe it as quickly disappearing, but there are more and more points of conflict between the Lords now than there were at the time of their inception. The original group were tasked with solemn and holy oaths of service by Rilimbrar himself, and knew full well the burden and importance of their task. As members have died, their replacements, whilst taking the same holy oaths, have approached the role with a more pragmatic, business-like function, which has caused friction with the old timers. This is because the newer Lords have sought to create an environment where their service won't end with the accession of Imbrar but they will still retain and wield power in the king's name. The old Lords are ready to relinquish power as soon as the regency ends and a true king of Impiltur is on the throne.
That situation coupled with the fact that Soneillon has "done her thing" with a few of the Lords (I'll leave it to you to choose - gives you more flexibility for your campaign), means that cordial relationships and a sense of common purpose are now no longer the case for the Lords as a collective. They all agree on their big picture place and role, but there are significant divisions on how they see their positions, both now and in the future, playing out in real terms. The devil (or in this case the demon) is in the detail.
Soneillon works through a myriad of small items, spell effects and 'transient' charmed individuals to manipulate and subtly control individuals in Impiltur. Her method can best be described as seeking to control emotions and responses, rather than creating puppets enslaved to her will. Whilst the latter brute force method works with the hobgoblins and tribes of Narfell, experience has taught her that lasting results in Impiltur can only be achieved by creating a web of manipulation and control that relies on guiding and predicting responses and emotions.
The term "transient' charmed above denotes her knowledge and mastery of spells that control or manipulate others in very specific ways. The charms in question trigger similarly to effects such as the 'magic mouth' spell, and more importantly do not 'show' on individuals until triggered (i.e. a person affected by one of these 'hung and waiting to be triggered' charm effects does not radiate magic or register to any divination spell seeking to ascertain magic control. Nothing short of a 'wish' will reveal that someone is under the effect of these types of spells.
Her immediate plans revolve around slaying both Sambryl and Imbrar at the same time, hoping that she can influence and manipulate events in the short term to put one of her puppets on the throne. Imbrar is the last male in the Velimbrar line. Should he die, then the patriarchal lineage reverts to the line of Fylraun, the last of the sons of Imphras II and the source of the current Lords. Fylraun had two daughters and only one son, Elphras (named for his uncle who died childless). The line of Elphras has no direct patriarchal line, as he had two daughters (known to all as the "Dowager Aunts"). It is these two daughters and another cousin descended from the 4th son of Imphras II who are the mothers of the original Lords.
So in the current succession, the next in line for the throne is actually Lord Engarth of the Council of Lords. He has therefore been a target of Soneillon and she is seeking out ways of bringing him under her web of control.
Hope that helps you get a better understanding of the politics and machinations of power in Impiltur.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 11 Sep 2018 01:22:01 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2017 : 17:58:19
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| Hey George, in a personal view, how much do you think the fracturing of the current Lords of Imphras II has to do with racial bias and/or religious tenets/dogma? I specifically started thinking about it based on the layout of your Dragon 346 article. I'm kind of picturing the original Lords of Imphras as all of the same religious "direction" (i.e. all worshipping either one member of the Triad or the Triad as a whole, but basically confined to those 3 deities). This seems to have started changing. For instance, I know that there are a human female follower of Sune and a human male follower of Helm in your article. There are also two half-elves, which implies a relatively recent marriage or marriages by effectively lesser royalty of the realm to non-humans. By the way, do you see these two half-elves as being brothers? I note that one of the two "dislikes the court" and would prefer gallavanting with the soldiers. Could this be because of some unintentional, misunderstood, or even misperceived racial bias? In fact, I'd really just be interested in this whole half-elf population. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2017 : 00:55:28
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey George, in a personal view, how much do you think the fracturing of the current Lords of Imphras II has to do with racial bias and/or religious tenets/dogma? I specifically started thinking about it based on the layout of your Dragon 346 article. I'm kind of picturing the original Lords of Imphras as all of the same religious "direction" (i.e. all worshipping either one member of the Triad or the Triad as a whole, but basically confined to those 3 deities). This seems to have started changing. For instance, I know that there are a human female follower of Sune and a human male follower of Helm in your article. There are also two half-elves, which implies a relatively recent marriage or marriages by effectively lesser royalty of the realm to non-humans. By the way, do you see these two half-elves as being brothers? I note that one of the two "dislikes the court" and would prefer gallavanting with the soldiers. Could this be because of some unintentional, misunderstood, or even misperceived racial bias? In fact, I'd really just be interested in this whole half-elf population.
I had no choice regarding making two of the Lords Sune and Helm worshippers respectively (although the Sune aspect does assist greatly in dealing with a lore snafu regarding gender that arose as in Unapproachable East where the designers made Rilaunyr a female (p.191) - I've checked with Ed, and he advises that there are Sunite rituals that involve changing gender) as Richard Lee Byers made that call - respectfully, without really thinking that decision through - in his "Rage of Dragon" novel trilogy. Similarly, UE also made Lord Silaunbrar a half-elf, so again, I had no choice but to roll with the punches.
But, in the words of the esteemed Eric Boyd, lore gaffes aren't a problem they are (mostly) an opportunity. As noted above, the make-up of the Council has changed and with that infusion of young blood, a different focus from some of the members as spelled out above. I think that there is a religious tension to a degree, which accentuates the differences between the old guard and the new, but I don't consider that this tension has a racial aspect to it. None of the half-elven members of the Council worship elven gods and the elves of the Grey Forest have been firm allies of Impiltur for centuries. I've toyed with writing up a "Fall of Myth Drannor"-style piece on the attack of the hobgoblins in 1095 DR - until of course I realised that all that work was unlikely to have all that much utility for anyone - which would have noted the elven assistance provided to the Heltharns in that campaign (as noted in my post of 21/12/15 on p.34 of this thread). The humans respect the (dwindling) elven presence in the Grey Forest but pay heed also to the fact that it is a place of ancient magic, danger in some places and acts as a decent natural barrier/defence to the western flank of the kingdom. So they let it be.
While Impiltur is humanocentric - and respectfully, my view is that Ed has always viewed the Realms in this fashion also - that doesn't mean that other races aren't tolerated. Tolerance is one of the central tenets of the Triad. But Impiltur is naturally xenophobic - no matter your race - so it is a careful balance between religious attitudes on the one hand, and social mores on the other. The Lords are no different than the general population in this regard. The half-elves of the realm (and there is a decent population) are not usually the subject of racial bias. The exception to that is if they are "outlanders", when attitudes are somewhat negative.
I delved into this a bit with Elaine Cunningham when she asked me for some input into her Liriel short story "Answered Prayers" in her "Best of ..." short story compilation years ago. She did a great job of highlighting the issues elves and outlanders might deal with in Impiltur.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2017 : 00:58:39
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I do love the intricate webs you are weaving in impiltur. Apologies if i keep asking similar questions, im very forgetful.
I've been working on Impiltur as an area of focus for some 15 years and I still make errors and have to go back and fix stuff. My compilation of Impiltur musings here at the Keep runs to about 36 A4 pages, so that's a lot of lore!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2017 : 15:02:10
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| Well, from my part, I really liked your High History of Impiltur. It transformed another entry in the campaign book into a living and interesting place that help me to understand a little bit more of the Realms. IHMO, this kind of material is really helpful to those of us who discovered the Realms in its current incarnation, and missed a lot of its original incarnation. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 23 Jul 2017 15:03:20 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2017 : 15:32:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Well, from my part, I really liked your High History of Impiltur. It transformed another entry in the campaign book into a living and interesting place that help me to understand a little bit more of the Realms. IHMO, this kind of material is really helpful to those of us who discovered the Realms in its current incarnation, and missed a lot of its original incarnation.
+1. I joined towards the end of 4e, and finding older material is hard. Works like the High History of Impliltur really help adding depth to the setting for us. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2017 : 16:39:31
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey George, in a personal view, how much do you think the fracturing of the current Lords of Imphras II has to do with racial bias and/or religious tenets/dogma? I specifically started thinking about it based on the layout of your Dragon 346 article. I'm kind of picturing the original Lords of Imphras as all of the same religious "direction" (i.e. all worshipping either one member of the Triad or the Triad as a whole, but basically confined to those 3 deities). This seems to have started changing. For instance, I know that there are a human female follower of Sune and a human male follower of Helm in your article. There are also two half-elves, which implies a relatively recent marriage or marriages by effectively lesser royalty of the realm to non-humans. By the way, do you see these two half-elves as being brothers? I note that one of the two "dislikes the court" and would prefer gallavanting with the soldiers. Could this be because of some unintentional, misunderstood, or even misperceived racial bias? In fact, I'd really just be interested in this whole half-elf population.
I had no choice regarding making two of the Lords Sune and Helm worshippers respectively (although the Sune aspect does assist greatly in dealing with a lore snafu regarding gender that arose as in Unapproachable East where the designers made Rilaunyr a female (p.191) - I've checked with Ed, and he advises that there are Sunite rituals that involve changing gender) as Richard Lee Byers made that call - respectfully, without really thinking that decision through - in his "Rage of Dragon" novel trilogy. Similarly, UE also made Lord Silaunbrar a half-elf, so again, I had no choice but to roll with the punches.
But, in the words of the esteemed Eric Boyd, lore gaffes aren't a problem they are (mostly) an opportunity. As noted above, the make-up of the Council has changed and with that infusion of young blood, a different focus from some of the members as spelled out above. I think that there is a religious tension to a degree, which accentuates the differences between the old guard and the new, but I don't consider that this tension has a racial aspect to it. None of the half-elven members of the Council worship elven gods and the elves of the Grey Forest have been firm allies of Impiltur for centuries. I've toyed with writing up a "Fall of Myth Drannor"-style piece on the attack of the hobgoblins in 1095 DR - until of course I realised that all that work was unlikely to have all that much utility for anyone - which would have noted the elven assistance provided to the Heltharns in that campaign (as noted in my post of 21/12/15 on p.34 of this thread). The humans respect the (dwindling) elven presence in the Grey Forest but pay heed also to the fact that it is a place of ancient magic, danger in some places and acts as a decent natural barrier/defence to the western flank of the kingdom. So they let it be.
While Impiltur is humanocentric - and respectfully, my view is that Ed has always viewed the Realms in this fashion also - that doesn't mean that other races aren't tolerated. Tolerance is one of the central tenets of the Triad. But Impiltur is naturally xenophobic - no matter your race - so it is a careful balance between religious attitudes on the one hand, and social mores on the other. The Lords are no different than the general population in this regard. The half-elves of the realm (and there is a decent population) are not usually the subject of racial bias. The exception to that is if they are "outlanders", when attitudes are somewhat negative.
I delved into this a bit with Elaine Cunningham when she asked me for some input into her Liriel short story "Answered Prayers" in her "Best of ..." short story compilation years ago. She did a great job of highlighting the issues elves and outlanders might deal with in Impiltur.
-- George Krashos
Yeah, we had discussed the gender change in the past, and I like what you talked about with Sune and a ritual.... though it could simply be a girdle of femininity/masculinity and bad luck. I think it was Rilaunyr (don't feel like pulling up the article). I had not realized the part about someone else turning one of the lords into a half-elf though, so good research on that part.
You know, as you write about the Grey Forest, yeah, I think that would be an interesting article to hear more of. I know Impiltur has good ties to both a dwarven and an elven population, but I can't recall hearing much about either (though the lore begins to spin in my head after some time). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2017 : 23:24:13
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Lords of Imphras II reside in Seaside Palace, which is joined to a covered wharf complex housing the ships of the Warsails. Other major buildings and sites within the Ward include Thorntower, the home of the Holy Order of the Sacred Shrike... <snip>
Trying to find out more about this, and the only thing i found was this, which is the original of what I already had.
Any info on that group? I want to make sure I put the Thorntower in an appropriate place. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2017 : 23:32:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Lords of Imphras II reside in Seaside Palace, which is joined to a covered wharf complex housing the ships of the Warsails. Other major buildings and sites within the Ward include Thorntower, the home of the Holy Order of the Sacred Shrike... <snip>
Trying to find out more about this, and the only thing i found was this, which is the original of what I already had.
Any info on that group? I want to make sure I put the Thorntower in an appropriate place.
Tons of info in the "Champions of Valor" accessory. That's the fomal name of the Lords of Imphras II organisation in that accessory at p.88 onwards.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Questions for George Krashos
