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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 09:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thanks guys.
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
By the way: How about a detailed map of Cormyr?! 
I was working hard on one, but then when Brian's Cormyr article came out with that excellent map, I thought it redundent.
People feel there's still a need for one? 
Well, the map you mentioned is quite excellent, allright, but I'd say no match to yours. However, concidering the many details about the Forrest Kingdom I can understand that it is truely a lot of hard work to get an entire map of Cormyr together. So I completely understnd if you are reluctant or unable to finish your Cormyr-map. But I'd be more than glad to see it - even in the unfinished state as it is in right now.
Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 16:56:36
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The main reason why I haven't done one yet - which is strange when you consider how popular the region is - is that I 'respect' it more then other regions.
I know that sounds a little weird, but here's the truth of it - this is Ed's stomping grounds, and that of his players. Its also probably the most-played and best-known area on the planet. On all of my maps I constantly go back and find mistakes - some small, other quite glaring... yet I've only been called on them once or twice.
In order to do the Cormyr map JUSTICE, I would have to do something I have never done before - send copies of it out to several people (yourself included) before releasing it to the general public, to double-check everything for me. I would even see if I could have Ed look it over (through THO), to see if he wanted to add anything (wouldn't that be awesome?  ).
Between All of the Dalelends, Cormanthor, Myth Drannor, Anauroch (including the old Netheril one), and Cormyr maps - and even a wee-bit on the Moonsea maps - Not to mention the Two Volo's Guides that cover this area - I have a MUCH larger grouping of locales for such a map then has ever been collected together before. It would be the first map I have done that is busier even the the Silver Marches map I did (and I have about twenty new locations for that as well). Add to that the Ecologies series and several modules that took place here (including the one about that Idol that takes place in the Thunderpeaks), and you can see that I have a massive amount of material to cover, and reconcile.
I've been meaning to 'bump-up' the resolution for awhile, and I will have to do so for a Cormyr/Cormanthor map - it has just too many locales, and I want to fit it all in.
So you see... I've been saving the best for last.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Mar 2009 16:59:00 |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 20:13:01
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Scrolls Shared, Scribes:
So Markus, were you ever able to use the stuff I sent you, or
was it too small to be read? Just curious.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2009 : 21:02:17
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I just knew you'd be around (and you're one of the people I would want to double-check me).
To be perfectly honest... I don't even recall exactly where we left-off. 
We were going back-and-forth for awhile, and I know I was having trouble reading you're entries (and you were kind enough to provide a better list), but then after that I think is when the new Cormyr map came-out and I figured I'd give the project a rest for awhile (so as not to appear to be 'one-upping' the official map).
Anyhow, I think the way I had left-off was that I would work with what I had, send that to you, and you could send an E-Mail back to me, making any notations as to what was left-out. That is probably the best route to go with, otherwise I may end up with redundent entries (I've done that before as well). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Mar 2009 01:51:10 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2009 : 00:58:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The main reason why I haven't done one yet - which is strange when you consider how popular the region is - is that I 'respect' it more then other regions.
I know that sounds a little weird, but here's the truth of it - this is Ed's stomping grounds, and that of his players.
no i feel the same way - it is not weird
i think that is why i have such an affinity for the Cold Lands because i get the sense that i can't "mess 'em up" since they were not Ed's but retconned into the Forgotten Realms from the H-series Bloodstone Modules
so the Cold Lands are my personal playground and i try to make them more Realms-like (Ed-like) in my campaign
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Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2009 : 01:54:29
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Yeah, I've been known to modify certain things more to my liking, and on occassion even add a site or two (or more, as we get further from the 'core Realms')...
But I can't see myself doing that AT ALL with Cormyr and the Dalelands - thats Hallowed Ground, right there.
I'd feel like I was trying to improve on the Holy Grail or something. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Mar 2009 01:54:58 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2009 : 09:48:37
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I completely understand you point of view. Take all the time you need. I'd be glad to assist you in any way possible once the time comes.
But to leave no doubt about it:
If anyone should be making a map that detailed of this 'sacred' area (aside from Ed, who most likely drew several of this area over the years) it should be you, IMHO.
Best regards, Ergdusch |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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althen artren
Senior Scribe
USA
780 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2009 : 18:49:04
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Maps shared, Markus:
You know if you wanted, I could mail you copies of the original and the back if that
would make viewing easier. If your willing, just email me you address info and I get it
out in a couple days. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2009 : 21:58:47
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Since this is on a back-burner for now, that would be a VERY bad idea. I'm very disorganized, and would probably loose track of it within a few days. 
When I do get back to this area, which hopefully won't be that long from now, I will let you know how we should proceed.
I'm currently doing things VERY differently then I have been, and working from a different direction when it comes to the maps. Aside from my wanting them closer to the 2e maps (in accuracy), I am also looking to 'improve' upon their look some what, without actually changing it.
Ergo, this project - the Naked maps - is actually part of my grander plan of producing a higher-res map of Faerūn then the one offerred by WotC, and then modifying it and adding all the locales back in. I realized I picked-up quite a few 'bad habits' while learning how to reproduce these, and the new methods I'm employing are allowing me to make changes much faster.
Now if only I could improve my research habits... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Mar 2009 22:00:11 |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 22:30:35
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| Hey Markus, I was wondering where Lothen, City of the Silver Spires is located in the High Forest. I've been looking all over, and still haven't seen it. Thanks!! |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2009 : 22:45:18
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High Forest
Its in the Western part of the forest.
Here is the full Map of that region - there is also a four-part, easily-printable version here in the CandleKeep Maproom. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Mar 2009 22:50:32 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 11:48:49
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| Thank you very much for these excellent maps Markus, they are much appreciated. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 16:11:26
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Well, thos elast two were realy very old ones - the second one I ever did, IIRC (and one is just a 'blow-up' of a piece of the other).
I'm trying to finish the Old Empires for this series, but its tougher then other areas have been, mostly because of my own stupidity.
In order to show the whole thing, like we had on the older 1e/2e maps, I need to go furth east, which means pasting-in parts of my own homemade map onto the canon one, and I've made so many little adjustments to mine that it isn't a perfect fit anymore. Also, That section was done so long ago that I do not have an 'unlayered' version of the map, so I have to erase all the names and locales on my own VERY BUSY version of Semphar, Raurin, and the surrounding region.
Hopefully I'll have it done by the end of the day - I want to get back to the east because I made someone a promise. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Mar 2009 16:12:44 |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 16:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
High Forest
Its in the Western part of the forest.
Here is the full Map of that region - there is also a four-part, easily-printable version here in the CandleKeep Maproom.
Ok, thanks!! I've downloaded all of your maps now for my campaigns. Thank you for all of the hard work. I think you deserve to take the Saint template for all of your hard work. All hail Saint Markus!!  |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2009 : 16:35:22
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Trust me, I'm no Saint...
I'm going to have to do a LOT of fast-talking to get by St. Peter at the Pearly Gates.
I just gotta hope he fails his Wisdom check. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2009 : 16:58:44
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| One thing I've been wondering Marcus, are you basing your maps on 2e measurements, or the 'squeezed' measurements of 3e? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2009 : 17:26:40
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'Squeezed' 3e.
Although I am making more adjustments to the 3e map to better fit the 2e loacales on my newest ones, the 3e map still stays true to itself. Most of my maps are subtley fifferent then the official ones, but you have to compare them side-by-side to notice.
That was my goal - to tweak the hell out of the 3e amp (which I love) so that it works better with the older 2e lore. I still make allowances here and there - we lost a LOT of terrain with 3e - but I have managed to get a few of the 2e locales closer to their original positions in regardsto each other (although not in regards to locales MUCH further away).
I have managed to correct a lot of the north/south strangeness that had occurred - many locales that used to appear north of others now appear south. I was able to correct about 85% of that just by rotating the map 9.2ŗ . Now I am nudging stuff around further, and even going so far as re-sizing (slightly) certain terrain features, just to get stuff more accurate (to the 2e maps). This means that locales should be acurate within a certain region - a town in Thay may not be accurate latitudanally to a town in the North, but all locales in the North should be correct in regards to each other, just as towns in Thay should be accurate to each other. Thats about the best I can hope for.
I know that was a kind of long-winded explanation to a simple question, but the answer is that there is no single answer. In most cases the distances between stuff wound up to be an average of the older distance coupled with the newer. In some cases it favored one or the other, and in a couple of rare cases the distance became either wholly 3e or even rarer-still wholly 2e.
I was more worried about the maps looking visually like the older ones (in layout) then anything else, so the scale became secondary.
Since I am using the 72 dpi of the original map still, the map scale on that map (the High-Res one) should be transferrable to nearly all other 'Naked maps' as-is (except for the Lands of Intrigue, which I did custom because the LFR was having it printed up).
I am almost done with the Old Empires map for this series - its turning out that my own added-in extension is causing me more grief then the offical parts (MANY more names and locales to 'erase'). However, I think having that little extra bit is worth all the trouble - Semphar, Ulgarth and the Shining Sea are all part of the Realms, and should be on a Realms map. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Mar 2009 17:31:49 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 04:17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by capnvan
Hmm. One suspects he's likely to take 20.
Don't despair - I'm sure we'll be neighbors!
You can't take 20 when there's a penalty for failure... and letting in someone who isn't supposed to be there sounds like failure to me, and one would think that St. Peter's boss would *definitely* have something to say regarding penalties.  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 19 Mar 2009 04:18:15 |
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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 04:24:26
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| Markustay are you ever going to do the Underdark one day? That and a map of evermeet, both of them I would like seeing a map made by you. |
Edited by - Herkles on 19 Mar 2009 04:25:37 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 06:31:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
Markustay are you ever going to do the Underdark one day? That and a map of evermeet, both of them I would like seeing a map made by you.
It's not really possible to do a map of the Underdark... I mean, it is possible, but it's really difficult. Most of the places down there, we don't have exact locations for. The tunnels and such are subject to change, and perhaps the biggest hurdle of such a map is that the Underdark is three-dimensional. Surface stuff can be easily shown on a two-dimensional map, because you don't have to worry about what's above or below it. In the Underdark, it's not inconceivable that you might have two or three cities stacked on top of each other, each separated by a couple miles of rock and weeks worth of tunnels to travel thru. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 06:36:13
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I have no intention of doing the Underdark - the map that came with the product of the same name is fine, and the only way I could improve upon it (other then finding more locales) would be to create a 3D model of it to better-represent the various depths, and since I can't do 3D, it ain't gonna happen.
As for Evermeet, that was the first map I ever did (or second, depending on weather anyone counts the Silver Marches one, which was really just the official Map with lots added).
You can see the Evermeet Map in the Elven Netbook (which I created it for), or here in the Candlekeep Maproom.
As you can see, that was some of my earliest work - I really should do a newer one of that someday (or at the very least, fix the writing on those mountains).
Almost managed to finish the Old Empires today - I'm kicking myself for not having a copy of my Utter East map without any of the text. I'd be done already, but I decided to go a little more south, to get in Far Nemoree and the rest of the Ue. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Mar 2009 21:41:37 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 06:38:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Herkles
Markustay are you ever going to do the Underdark one day? That and a map of evermeet, both of them I would like seeing a map made by you.
While not the best example, you have seen the map of the Underdark in the 3e tome of the same name, yes?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Mar 2009 : 21:44:51
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Old Empires is finally done, in all it's Naked Glory. Let me know if you notice any 'weirdness' on any of these - I occasionally miss re-drawing stuff onto erased areas. I'm also not thrilled about the desert to the east of Sentinalspire - I may touch that up.
Enjoy - Mark |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 04:10:06
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Point of curiosity: how's the Big World Map(TM) looking? I haven't seen an update in a while, and I'm assuming it's because you've been working on Other Things... last I heard regarding the map, you were re-re-doing Wa and Kozakura, but I haven't seen anything since then... unless I'm missing something.
Re: the Underdark: I have to agree; I'd never try to map it, even if mapping were my thing (which it most definitely is not). That brings me to my second point: any chance of you doing a map of Netheril pre-Year of Sundered Webs? Ideally something that can be easily copied and pasted into a copy of the main map, for those of us who like the demise of Anauroch and nothing else about 4E geography... as I see it, the melting of the High Ice would erase the desert and re-flood the Narrow Sea, basically re-creating the geography as shown on the map in Lost Empires with some minor differences, such as the absence of forest in the reclaimed lands (assuming no 100-year time jump).
Anyway, just an idea... looking forward to seeing the state of the Realms from its foremost cartographer. (Please don't quote me on that; WotC might hire you and put you to work drawing 4E maps... or worse, 5E...) (Did they ever redo the 4E FRCG map at all?)
Edit: Re: Old Empires map: Is that lone volcano in the NE corner of the map canon? I am daily more frustrated that I don't have my own hard-copy maps and earlier-edition sources with me to check this kind of thing. 
Edit: I was looking at my saved "thumbnails" of your posted full-map WIPs, and as a specific point to my first question: How's Zakhara looking these days? Not meaning to harp; just curious, and I tend to be obsessive about my curiosity; apologies for that character flaw. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 20 Mar 2009 04:30:26 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 05:54:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Point of curiosity: how's the Big World Map(TM) looking?
I haven't made any new progress... in fact, I've gone backwards.
I developed a new way of working (and the Naked maps are part of that), so I have to back-track quite a bit until I get everything just right, and then proceed forward again. The goal is to eventually produce a pdf of the entire continent with layers, so folks can print the maps out any way THEY like.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
any chance of you doing a map of Netheril pre-Year of Sundered Webs?
There is a perfectly good map of Netheril in the GhotR, and I have one from immediately after the fall from the old Netheril boxed-set (which is probably what you are looking for). I have no intention of re-producing either of those. There are existing maps covering that, and its not really an empire I'm interested in (Shade made me sick of anything Netherease).
I am interested in doing a series of maps for the periods on Imaskar, and the only thing stopping me from beginning that at this point is that I already have WAY too many things on my plate.
Imaskar's history is complicated and inter-woven with four different campaign regions, and the only way to do my timeline justice is with a good visual aid. The map in the GHotR is a good starting point, but there are some things missing.
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Anyway, just an idea... looking forward to seeing the state of the Realms from its foremost cartographer. (Please don't quote me on that; WotC might hire you and put you to work drawing 4E maps... or worse, 5E...) (Did they ever redo the 4E FRCG map at all?)
Thank you for the compliment, and NO, they have not made any new maps of 4e that I am aware. I still have some interest in doing a 4e version of the Realms... we'll see...
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
Edit: Re: Old Empires map: Is that lone volcano in the NE corner of the map canon? I am daily more frustrated that I don't have my own hard-copy maps and earlier-edition sources with me to check this kind of thing.
It's a dormant volcano - Sentinalspire is located within the Caldera (and yes, it's canon).
quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I was looking at my saved "thumbnails" of your posted full-map WIPs, and as a specific point to my first question: How's Zakhara looking these days? Not meaning to harp; just curious, and I tend to be obsessive about my curiosity; apologies for that character flaw.
I did the northern coast of Zakhara quite some time ago, when I was working on the Utter east, but since then I haven't done much else. I did do the islands off the northern coast, though - they are surprisingly close to Faerūn now, because of the shifting done to the 3e geography.
Zakhara is still something I intend to do, unlike Maztica (I had the wind knocked-out of my sails on that one).
I've also been toying with doing a homebrew version of the Realms Map, with some major modifications (How I picture the 'perfect' FR to be), but there's not enough time in the day, and since I'm not running FR anymore, there's no reaosn for me to make a map of my own version. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Mar 2009 06:08:21 |
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Penknight
Senior Scribe
USA
538 Posts |
Posted - 20 Mar 2009 : 22:45:43
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| This is an odd request, I guess. I was looking over your map of the Silver Marches and thought it would make a *great* wallpaper, as well as an aid in my gaming sessions. Is there any way you could resize it to a 1024x768 please? |
Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 00:26:48
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Not so strange - Silver Marches Wallpaper.
I tried that before, but the sreen was 'too busy' for my tastes (and I kept losing my icons).
Funny you should mention this - I'm in the middle of a newer high-resolution version of that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Herkles
Seeker
82 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 00:30:05
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I have taken a look at the Underdark map that came with the book, but the issue with that is that it is split in two due to it being on two pages. I did hear though that Drizz't do'urden's guide to the Underdark had a map within it as well.
and markustay, I would love to see an updated map of evermeet. I also would like to know if there is a map of containing where the elven empires during the time of the crown wars existed. |
Edited by - Herkles on 21 Mar 2009 00:32:30 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 01:12:48
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| Aside from the one in GHotR, which only shows the southern participants (which is strange, given that the Aryvaandar were involved in more of them then the Illythiir), NO, there isn't any that shows the entire area of conflict, are even just the north. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2009 : 03:05:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Not so strange - Silver Marches Wallpaper.
For a "Points of Lights" area, there is a lot of light. Still its a great map.
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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New Map Series from me
