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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Sep 2011 : 23:46:39
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This from the folks at eilistraee.org, who asked Ms. Smedman about this very issue (and I do hope they will not take exception to my placing this here):
“I would have love to have kept both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun alive and kicking, since they make such interesting antagonists for Lolth, but my assignment from Wizards of the Coast was to make the necessary “tweaks” to the drow pantheon. WOTC stipulated that they had to die, but I had the fun of coming up with the gruesome details. Whether Eilistraee or Vhaeraun are ever resurrected (either in game material or a novel) is strictly up to WOTC — although individual DMs can do as they will, within their own campaigns. Hopefully, I’ve written in a couple of “loopholes” in my trilogy that they can use!”
-Lisa Smedman.
No one can blame Ms. Smedman - we should actually be very thankful they assigned her to write what happened. I think what frosts most people are, using the words in the interview to paraphrase:
*"WotC stipulated that they had to die."
Well, first of all, why? What in Ao's name was so -CENSORED- important about the changes made to the Realms (which didn't turn out to be all that well-received, anyways) that they had to pointlessly butcher (let's call it what it is) two of the most interesting and well-received deities that have been created for the setting? It makes precisely ZERO sense.
* "Necessary 'tweaks' to the drow pantheon."
Right - let me get this straight. Driving Ghanadaur off and completely stripping him of any drow influence in his portfolio...and then slaughtering...every...single...other...drow deity apart from Lolth is a 'tweak'? What sort of professor calls something like that a 'tweak'? That's like calling the Hiroshima bomb a 'shaped charge'.
I'm not dumping on Ms. Smedman here. I honestly believe that some Realms-disdainful Wizard of Smart actually used the word 'tweak' when they told her to write the drowpocalyse into those books. What I would really, really like to know is the name of the person(s) who gave Ms. Smedman those instructions - so I can watch for their names on future titles...and have some forewarning that I may not like what I find when I open the cover. |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 02:12:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Well, first of all, why? What in Ao's name was so -CENSORED- important about the changes made to the Realms (which didn't turn out to be all that well-received, anyways) that they had to pointlessly butcher (let's call it what it is) two of the most interesting and well-received deities that have been created for the setting? It makes precisely ZERO sense.
I seldom make the statement "I couldn't agree more" but in this case, it's true. As my namesake was one of the "offed" deities I am more than a little unhappy with it. I have faith, though, that if anyone can fix history, it's our beloved Ed. And, to be fair, Bob Salvatore has done his best to make certain changes to the drow pantheon. His books make WoTC a lot of money, so I suspect good changes may be coming. I'm admittedly an optimist.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 02:47:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Well, first of all, why? What in Ao's name was so -CENSORED- important about the changes made to the Realms (which didn't turn out to be all that well-received, anyways) that they had to pointlessly butcher (let's call it what it is) two of the most interesting and well-received deities that have been created for the setting? It makes precisely ZERO sense.
I seldom make the statement "I couldn't agree more" but in this case, it's true. As my namesake was one of the "offed" deities I am more than a little unhappy with it. I have faith, though, that if anyone can fix history, it's our beloved Ed. And, to be fair, Bob Salvatore has done his best to make certain changes to the drow pantheon. His books make WoTC a lot of money, so I suspect good changes may be coming. I'm admittedly an optimist.
MY favored was Helm.
he's dead and gone, with Erik de BIe at the Helm on that matter.
but I agree with your post. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 03:28:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Well, first of all, why? What in Ao's name was so -CENSORED- important about the changes made to the Realms (which didn't turn out to be all that well-received, anyways) that they had to pointlessly butcher (let's call it what it is) two of the most interesting and well-received deities that have been created for the setting? It makes precisely ZERO sense.
I seldom make the statement "I couldn't agree more" but in this case, it's true. As my namesake was one of the "offed" deities I am more than a little unhappy with it. I have faith, though, that if anyone can fix history, it's our beloved Ed. And, to be fair, Bob Salvatore has done his best to make certain changes to the drow pantheon. His books make WoTC a lot of money, so I suspect good changes may be coming. I'm admittedly an optimist.
If we include your namesake, then the list is bigger than two. And still makes the same amount of sense. I get the feeling that the particulars of the 4th Edition pantheon (and much of the Shattered Realms in general) were done by committee.
Regardless, I hope you are correct. I personally do not know what RAS thinks of what has happened, but if he can make things happen for the better, I'm all for it. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 10:17:49
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| I have to admit that some of the changes made aren't of my taste, specially, as commented, about the drow pantheon, as I really think that lolth needs someone to undermine her job. Now she is the only real drow deity and that is give her too much power in my opinion... Well maybe someday we discover all the new changes were just a dream... |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 18:53:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
I have to admit that some of the changes made aren't of my taste, specially, as commented, about the drow pantheon, as I really think that lolth needs someone to undermine her job. Now she is the only real drow deity and that is give her too much power in my opinion... Well maybe someday we discover all the new changes were just a dream...
Hehe...shades of Dallas. 
I'm personally hoping that we see something similar to what happened to a well-known science-fiction roleplaying game.
Many a year ago, a chap named Marc Miller put out a game called Traveller. All in booklet format, with lots of supplements. Then came The Traveller Book (in both hardcover and softcover editions), essentially the same thing, but cleaned up and consolidated...and of course, more supplements.
Then came Megatraveller, where the setting was put on it's ear, but was still recognizable...with a slightly altered rules system and...more supplements. And finally, they released Traveller: The New Era, where they had a large time jump, all but completely altered the setting, plunged the galaxy into an interstellar dark age, and introduced a completely new game system.
Does any of this sound at all familiar?
The latest offering is Marc Miller's Traveller, which takes us back to the time of The Traveller Book - the way Marc Miller envisioned things as they should have been, as if the following products had never happened. It would be nice...very nice indeed...to see Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms. The way that Ed envisioned the Realms to be. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 04:43:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Thelonius
I have to admit that some of the changes made aren't of my taste, specially, as commented, about the drow pantheon, as I really think that lolth needs someone to undermine her job. Now she is the only real drow deity and that is give her too much power in my opinion... Well maybe someday we discover all the new changes were just a dream...
Hehe...shades of Dallas.
I'm personally hoping that we see something similar to what happened to a well-known science-fiction roleplaying game.
Many a year ago, a chap named Marc Miller put out a game called Traveller. All in booklet format, with lots of supplements. Then came The Traveller Book (in both hardcover and softcover editions), essentially the same thing, but cleaned up and consolidated...and of course, more supplements.
Then came Megatraveller, where the setting was put on it's ear, but was still recognizable...with a slightly altered rules system and...more supplements. And finally, they released Traveller: The New Era, where they had a large time jump, all but completely altered the setting, plunged the galaxy into an interstellar dark age, and introduced a completely new game system.
Does any of this sound at all familiar?
Yup. BattleTech. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 05:57:42
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Life is cheap.
but battlemech's arn't. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 06:23:07
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"Kill the meat. Save the metal."
[I apologise for the diversion, but this recent shift in the discussion reminded me of a favourite line from the MechWarrior II: Mercenaries PC game.] |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 11:58:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Does any of this sound at all familiar?
Yup. BattleTech.
LMAO - smartaleck.
Actually, thinking about it, that's rather disturbing. Are these companies shuffling the same people around or something? That makes three examples of the same pattern. |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 20:42:58
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I just have to say, if I were a moderator, I might think that these latest posts have nothing to do with resurrecting Eilistraee... I'm just sayin' :-)
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2011 : 21:01:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
I just have to say, if I were a moderator, I might think that these latest posts have nothing to do with resurrecting Eilistraee... I'm just sayin' :-)
Well, if you go by what's strictly written, no. Give me a bit, though, and I'm sure I can find a way to connect the drow pantheon and the Davion family in some fashion.
Actually, as I finished typing that sentence, my brain did just that. That's another scroll, though.
But regardless, you're correct. Returning to the topic, what I would like to figure out is, if Alystra's theory is correct (and I say it is - so there), where would Elistraee's essence have been placed? Would resurrecting Qilue Veladorn have an effect on the divine portion she was invested with? Would resurrecting her be the catalyst for bringing back her deity, even if she was carrying only a fragment of the divine essence? |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 00:38:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Well, if you go by what's strictly written, no. Give me a bit, though, and I'm sure I can find a way to connect the drow pantheon and the Davion family in some fashion.
Actually, as I finished typing that sentence, my brain did just that. That's another scroll, though.
But regardless, you're correct. Returning to the topic, what I would like to figure out is, if Alystra's theory is correct (and I say it is - so there), where would Elistraee's essence have been placed? Would resurrecting Qilue Veladorn have an effect on the divine portion she was invested with? Would resurrecting her be the catalyst for bringing back her deity, even if she was carrying only a fragment of the divine essence?
Ed has been particularly murky on these details, and I suspect it is because he doesn't believe a god can really die. Ao decreed that the gods would cease to exist from lack of worship if they failed to serve their worshippers in Waterdeep, but Ed didn't write that book. Still, if you look at what he did write, such as Bury Elminster Deep, Mystra is in a state somewhere between a very powerful thing and reclaiming her divinity. Ao just swooped his hand (so to speak) and Torm was returned to godhood and "life." After Shadowdale, again where Bane was "destroyed" his essence was spread throughout the Astral Plane. Since the details of Mystra's "death" were never revealed in a novel, we can only guess how Cyric and Shar brought about her purported death.
As I've said before, it makes no sense from a game standpoint as to why deities would destroy their channel to the Weave and its magic. It also isn't explained why a new Mystra didn't form as happened when Mystryl committed suicide to stop Karsus' attempt at divinity, and Mystra was born a few seconds later. In simple language, it seems the gods need Mystra as much as mortals do. WoTC never explained this minor plot hole...but that being said, Eilistraee's essence is somewhere. All it takes is a good author to write the book on where it is, and have it put back together again.
I like the way Ed is handling it in the Elminster series, but this idea that gods can kill one another is incredibly disturbing; their purpose is to influence their domains in the mortal realms. It was never Bhaal's job to murder the other gods (or Cyric's). Based on what I've read (Jim Lowder could chime in here) Cyric killed with Godsbane, which was really a shard of Mask. If Cyric killed Leira with Godsbane, and there's no reason to think he'd change his methods, Leira should have been restored when Kelemvor appeared.
So, the how would be up to the author. The precedent, I believe, is clearly set.
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 01:51:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
Well, if you go by what's strictly written, no. Give me a bit, though, and I'm sure I can find a way to connect the drow pantheon and the Davion family in some fashion.
Actually, as I finished typing that sentence, my brain did just that. That's another scroll, though.
But regardless, you're correct. Returning to the topic, what I would like to figure out is, if Alystra's theory is correct (and I say it is - so there), where would Elistraee's essence have been placed? Would resurrecting Qilue Veladorn have an effect on the divine portion she was invested with? Would resurrecting her be the catalyst for bringing back her deity, even if she was carrying only a fragment of the divine essence?
Ed has been particularly murky on these details, and I suspect it is because he doesn't believe a god can really die. Ao decreed that the gods would cease to exist from lack of worship if they failed to serve their worshippers in Waterdeep, but Ed didn't write that book. Still, if you look at what he did write, such as Bury Elminster Deep, Mystra is in a state somewhere between a very powerful thing and reclaiming her divinity. Ao just swooped his hand (so to speak) and Torm was returned to godhood and "life." After Shadowdale, again where Bane was "destroyed" his essence was spread throughout the Astral Plane. Since the details of Mystra's "death" were never revealed in a novel, we can only guess how Cyric and Shar brought about her purported death.
As I've said before, it makes no sense from a game standpoint as to why deities would destroy their channel to the Weave and its magic. It also isn't explained why a new Mystra didn't form as happened when Mystryl committed suicide to stop Karsus' attempt at divinity, and Mystra was born a few seconds later. In simple language, it seems the gods need Mystra as much as mortals do. WoTC never explained this minor plot hole...but that being said, Eilistraee's essence is somewhere. All it takes is a good author to write the book on where it is, and have it put back together again.
I like the way Ed is handling it in the Elminster series, but this idea that gods can kill one another is incredibly disturbing; their purpose is to influence their domains in the mortal realms. It was never Bhaal's job to murder the other gods (or Cyric's). Based on what I've read (Jim Lowder could chime in here) Cyric killed with Godsbane, which was really a shard of Mask. If Cyric killed Leira with Godsbane, and there's no reason to think he'd change his methods, Leira should have been restored when Kelemvor appeared.
So, the how would be up to the author. The precedent, I believe, is clearly set.
Unfortunately, there are two competing "game realities" with respect to the gods. The first is that the gods are rather like the Norse Gods of old myth: they fight, they can die, and they can steal each others' power. When one god or a powerful mortal kills another deity, you get their power, iconic items, and all their stuff (including some memories). In the case of mortals, they truly "ascend" and become something more.
The other view is that the gods are some kind of eternal beings representing deep concepts; they have avatars, and it's only the avatars we ever see. Mystra, Torm, Bhaal, they are all avatars. From time to time, avatars can join with a mortal (for whatever reason) and myths change. But the god-source entities do not ever change, as their representational concepts are eternal.
DMs are free to take either (or any) approach in their own world settings, of course. But the novel setting has fully embraced both game realities at various times, which makes everything confused and muddled. Perhaps this is as it should be: is it really ever possible for a mortal to know, truly really know, the true essence of a god?
You just have to accept whatever is written in a given novel, if it's important to that novel's plot. Whatever the "truth" might be, because the novels have flip-flopped from time to time and designers change their minds from edition to edition on this, we will never actually know the "truth" of the Realms gods.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2011 : 02:16:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Unfortunately, there are two competing "game realities" with respect to the gods. The first is that the gods are rather like the Norse Gods of old myth: they fight, they can die, and they can steal each others' power. When one god or a powerful mortal kills another deity, you get their power, iconic items, and all their stuff (including some memories). In the case of mortals, they truly "ascend" and become something more.
The other view is that the gods are some kind of eternal beings representing deep concepts; they have avatars, and it's only the avatars we ever see. Mystra, Torm, Bhaal, they are all avatars. From time to time, avatars can join with a mortal (for whatever reason) and myths change. But the god-source entities do not ever change, as their representational concepts are eternal.
DMs are free to take either (or any) approach in their own world settings, of course. But the novel setting has fully embraced both game realities at various times, which makes everything confused and muddled. Perhaps this is as it should be: is it really ever possible for a mortal to know, truly really know, the true essence of a god?
You just have to accept whatever is written in a given novel, if it's important to that novel's plot. Whatever the "truth" might be, because the novels have flip-flopped from time to time and designers change their minds from edition to edition on this, we will never actually know the "truth" of the Realms gods.
I prefer Ed's take on things (no offense to Scott or Jim) but he is the creator of the Realms after all. :-)
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Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Azuth
Senior Scribe
USA
404 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 00:10:20
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| Wooly is smarter than you. Hopefully it won't take as long to remove your post above. |
Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells
The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken. |
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Troll King
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 00:12:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
Wooly is smarter than you. Hopefully it won't take as long to remove your post above.
Don't know why... I mean, we have the precedent with Mystra 1.0..... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 01:31:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Troll King
Wooley Poop-ert removed my previous comment, probably because it was jealous of my amazing insight. I'll add it again, for discerning scribes of taste.
Is this really necessary?
Oh, and I wouldn't be so quick to claim "amazing insight" when you resort to childish name-calling.
As a result, your post has again been removed because of inappropriate wording and/or content.
If you post it again, your account will be immediately suspended. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 02:12:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
I prefer Ed's take on things (no offense to Scott or Jim) but he is the creator of the Realms after all. :-)
I'm not 100% sure what Ed's take on things really is, when it comes to the truth of the gods. He's somewhat slippery.  I'd speculate that Ed sees the named gods (Mystra, Torm, etc) as very powerful avatars, which in turn can create their own sub-avatars; going deeper, the named gods in all pantheons draw upon some kind of iconic, eternal entities that represent particular concepts in morality or action. For example, the war god in Pantheon A and the war god in Pantheon B both draw upon the same eternal entity representing War. The iconic, eternal entities are beyond mortal understanding, aside from their commitment to particular universal constants/ideals, and mortals' worship actually creates and defines the "gods" as Faerunians know them.
Just speculating, of course.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36874 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 16:34:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Bring back Eilistraee?? Why not bring Vhaeraun back?? To the Nine Hells with the Dark Lady. Sorry, y'all.
Eilistraee is my preferred drow deity, but if I was doing an evil (standard!) drow, I'd more likely go for Vhaeraun or Ghaunadaur -- I very much prefer those two, especially Vhaeraun, instead of Lolth.
That's why if I ran a Realms campaign, my drow pantheon would remain much as it was in 2E -- though I might use the Silence of Lolth, with it backfiring on her somehow.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 18:44:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Bring back Eilistraee?? Why not bring Vhaeraun back?? To the Nine Hells with the Dark Lady. Sorry, y'all.
Eilistraee is my preferred drow deity, but if I was doing an evil (standard!) drow, I'd more likely go for Vhaeraun or Ghaunadaur -- I very much prefer those two, especially Vhaeraun, instead of Lolth
Ditto. Lolth is Old News. Boring. The rivalry between the drow faiths is what kept them, at least in part, in check (in my humble opinion, of course). The Vhaeraunites were the most likely to have points of control on the surface, and best understood (on average) the average Faerunian. Of the evil sort of drow, that is.
And Drakul...come on, man...Miss Alturiak on last year's Ladies of the Realms calendar, and you have to ask why? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 20:20:06
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| Well, if it's all about preference then I submit Eilistraee's reassumption of divine stature should wait in queue behind Mystra and (my personal preferences) Moander, Gruumsh, and Jergal. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Drakul
Senior Scribe
USA
367 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 20:59:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Drakul
Bring back Eilistraee?? Why not bring Vhaeraun back?? To the Nine Hells with the Dark Lady. Sorry, y'all.
Eilistraee is my preferred drow deity, but if I was doing an evil (standard!) drow, I'd more likely go for Vhaeraun or Ghaunadaur -- I very much prefer those two, especially Vhaeraun, instead of Lolth
Ditto. Lolth is Old News. Boring. The rivalry between the drow faiths is what kept them, at least in part, in check (in my humble opinion, of course). The Vhaeraunites were the most likely to have points of control on the surface, and best understood (on average) the average Faerunian. Of the evil sort of drow, that is.
And Drakul...come on, man...Miss Alturiak on last year's Ladies of the Realms calendar, and you have to ask why?
I stand by my statement. Vhaeraun needs to come back. |
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDonLNKf6_KA9Qlal3Qu3zQ?view_as=subscriber |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 23:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Well, if it's all about preference then I submit Eilistraee's reassumption of divine stature should wait in queue behind Mystra and (my personal preferences) Moander, Gruumsh, and Jergal.
the SCribe of the DAmned is still an active deity, he serves Kelemvor |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2011 : 23:58:01
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Yeah, Jergal's still around, of course. So are the others, insofar as old gods never die.
But Jergal's stature is documented in times of ancient Netheril (and perhaps elsewhere) as being vastly greater than it is now. Since Jergal's demotion to lesser station we've seen the potency of all those great old death portfolios been sharply divided and diminished and compromised and contaminated. We've also seen a number of divine administrations largely managed by inferior and incompetent incumbents. Bane was moderately successful, as was Myrkul (until he got himself killed, dumb death god), and Kelemvor ain't so bad overall ... but I'd personally prefer to see mighty Jergal reasserted to his former preeminence; no more mistakes like Bhaal nor idiotic Cyric, plus get rid of uninvited impositions like the Raven Queen. I say we should cast all these pretenders back down to their feeble mortal shells and properly reinstall the one true god of death where he belongs.
Ao really needs to review his hiring policies. Mortals are clearly not as qualified to hold divine station as applicants who can demonstrate they already have relevant experience on their resumes. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 09 Sep 2011 00:04:40 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 00:02:01
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Well, if anyone REALLY wants a book done on bringing her back, I'm always open to ideas! I'd LOVE to do that one, to be honest. Now, if WotC were interested, I'm sure I could come up with something suitably "kewl" and in keeping with the recent time-jump, etc.
Regarding mortals taking over- could Quilue perhaps become the "new" Eilistraee? Or maybe someone else? Cavatina might be a good candidate.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 09 Sep 2011 00:26:43 |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 01:15:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
Well, if anyone REALLY wants a book done on bringing her back, I'm always open to ideas! I'd LOVE to do that one, to be honest. Now, if WotC were interested, I'm sure I could come up with something suitably "kewl" and in keeping with the recent time-jump, etc.
Regarding mortals taking over- could Quilue perhaps become the "new" Eilistraee? Or maybe someone else? Cavatina might be a good candidate....
The campaign I'm running now will (at the end) do just that. Of course, the corrupt old drow bastard who has conned convinced the players to help him couldn't give a rip about Eilistraee - he wants his deity back. That deity being Vhaeraun, of course, although he's aware that to extract one, you will likely get the other as well.
It involves resurrecting Quilue (the players have already obtained her skull for him - that was the 'easy' part), and assumes that any recalled spirit will also have a fragment of her goddess. And of course, that means that fragment will also have...well, you get the idea.
But I must say, it WOULD be interesting to ascend Quilue to assume Eilistraee's mantle...I think she would be a lot more aggressive in the post than the original was, even if she no longer had any of Vhaeraun's essence or portfolio. Not to mention there are a lot of discarded deific portfolios lying around these days. AND - she would have ready-made allies among the remaining Chosen of Mystra (all...three(?) of them). You know, the more I think about that angle, the better I like it, for some reason.
But I agree with Drakul - despite my razzing him earlier, I too would like to see Vhaeraun return as well. And he, too, could pick up a few of those deific portfolios just lying around on the deific cutting room floor... |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 01:21:25
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| It might be kinda fun to put together a "dream team" of various NPCs that would benefit from preventing the changes of 4E, or restoring certain deities/things. You could even have a known Cyricist in the party, who wants to prevent Cyric being chained to his throne. |
Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
497 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2011 : 01:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
It might be kinda fun to put together a "dream team" of various NPCs that would benefit from preventing the changes of 4E, or restoring certain deities/things. You could even have a known Cyricist in the party, who wants to prevent Cyric being chained to his throne.
Awesome idea. That sounds like an idea worthy of a scroll in its own right.
Expanding on your idea, perhaps, a single drow who has suddenly remembered Kiriansalee...not enough to retrieve her from her 'dead god' status (remember Aoskar from Planescape?) right away, but maybe he/she intends to do just that... |
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Any chance Ao resurrects Eilistraee?
