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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 17:04:14
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I hate this. No more Harpers. Now just some tiny group located in the Silver Marches whose sole purpose is oppose Netheril.
Dumb
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When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36906 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 17:15:09
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Well, the Realms of 4E has no bad guys that aren't somehow connected to Shar, so the Harpers had to be revamped with that as their focus.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 21:44:46
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| When/Where did we get this info from? |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 22:02:51
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I figured this was gonna happen. |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 22:18:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Neriandal Freit
When/Where did we get this info from?
Take a look at this scroll. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2008 : 23:49:20
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| Don't worry there will be new organizations for sure ... they ruined the Harpers and they will create something else in order to make CHANGE!! |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
Edited by - BARDOBARBAROS on 07 Aug 2008 23:49:48 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 00:05:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, the Realms of 4E has no bad guys that aren't somehow connected to Shar, so the Harpers had to be revamped with that as their focus.
LOL, that explains it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 00:57:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
quote:
Originally posted by Neriandal Freit
When/Where did we get this info from?
Take a look at this scroll.
As I recall, Rich Baker also hinted [some time ago] at the possibility that the Harpers/Moonstars would be altered somewhat in 4e FR. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 08 Aug 2008 00:59:00 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 01:27:43
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| While I truly like harpers, this is actually better IMO. Harpers became just like dual sword wielding Drow rangers. They were everywhere This, IMO will make them once again, more interesting to utilize. |
Edited by - scererar on 08 Aug 2008 01:47:13 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 02:11:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
As I recall, Rich Baker also hinted [some time ago] at the possibility that the Harpers/Moonstars would be altered somewhat in 4e FR.
What he said is that the Harpers were still around in 4e, and the Moonstars were going to be folded back into that organization.
A bit of a far cry from what we got.
It makes one wonder why they even bothered re-uniting the two groups, just to end them like that.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Aug 2008 02:12:15 |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
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slay_4_pay
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 04:37:22
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| That blows. I love The Harpers, I'm also not to thrilled about this whole idea of of EVERY bad guy being connected to Shar. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2008 : 09:25:00
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well my two characters that were harpers off somewhere in my mind just hit the retired list |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 03:19:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
But I like the Harpers.
Sorry. They are gone |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 03:50:01
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Actually Merick, you're jumping to conclusions.
We know already that they aren't gone. We've got (canon) proof that one offshoot exists in Luruar.
Who knows where else we may see similar groups pop up in the Realms?
On top of that, who is to say their disbandment wasn't really a cover for their efforts to return to a more reclusive and less open reputation?
The excerpt everyone is getting so huffy about isn’t nearly as absolute as everyone is assuming it is.
And think about it: That’s all it is. Just one excerpt.
I am not personally going to abandon my creativity and Realms knowledge for the sake of dwelling 100% on the negative.
The Realms deserve far better than that.
I, at least, am going to do my part. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 05:07:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Actually Merick, you're jumping to conclusions.
We know already that they aren't gone. We've got (canon) proof that one offshoot exists in Luruar.
Actually, I say that in my OP. However, what they call the Harpers is not the Harpers
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
The excerpt everyone is getting so huffy about isn’t nearly as absolute as everyone is assuming it is.
I hope you are right. But judging from Rich Bakers response on the WoTC Board (to my ? actually), that does not appear to be the case
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I am not personally going to abandon my creativity and Realms knowledge for the sake of dwelling 100% on the negative.
Everytime I try to get past the negativity another excerpt comes out proving just how pathetic the 4-Gotten Realms are
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
The Realms deserve far better than that.
It appears to me that the Realms are now dead |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 05:43:22
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Actually Merick, you're jumping to conclusions.
We know already that they aren't gone. We've got (canon) proof that one offshoot exists in Luruar.
Actually, I say that in my OP. However, what they call the Harpers is not the Harpers
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
The excerpt everyone is getting so huffy about isn’t nearly as absolute as everyone is assuming it is.
I hope you are right. But judging from Rich Bakers response on the WoTC Board (to my ? actually), that does not appear to be the case
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I am not personally going to abandon my creativity and Realms knowledge for the sake of dwelling 100% on the negative.
Everytime I try to get past the negativity another excerpt comes out proving just how pathetic the 4-Gotten Realms are
quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
The Realms deserve far better than that.
It appears to me that the Realms are now dead
Good news, everyone: Ed has replied in regard to the Harpers, and according to this scroll there is not all as it appears ... |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2008 : 09:55:14
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I had no love for the Harpers.
but those who Harp deserved better |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 00:54:15
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| In the end, the truth of the matter doesn't matter that much to me, because I thought the "old Harpers" were fine just as they were. I never thought they "overshadowed" my PCs. That wasn't an issue for me, so I don't need them to change in my Realms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 00:56:45
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| If the Harpers are becoming more secretive, then that is great. Working from the shadows and being less known is more effective in their line of work. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 02:20:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Good news, everyone: Ed has replied in regard to the Harpers, and according to this scroll there is not all as it appears ...
But if you read Rich Baker's thread he specifically says the Harpers had to be refocused onto the Shades as they didn't want a wide ranging power group such as the early edition Harpers |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 06:03:15
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| Yes, but let's wait what Ed will make out of the harpers. It is not the first time that Ed's lore overwrites official campaign setting lore by other designers (shadow weave!). |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 13:09:56
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| what Ed says does 'per Default' overwrite whatever someone not tried strongly to the setting though at least a lot of years in my world :P (lot of years being relative though dependent on how my mind is about them) |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 16:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Yes, but let's wait...
With all due respect, the "let's wait" argument can be used indefinately. Not saying waiting is never a good idea for anyone, but it can be used (and often is used) as a plea for people not to have an opinion, especially an unfavorable opinion.
By the way, Ed's lore regarding the Shadow Weave has since been overwritten in the "canon" Realms. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 11 Aug 2008 16:53:19 |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2008 : 16:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Yes, but let's wait what Ed will make out of the harpers. It is not the first time that Ed's lore overwrites official campaign setting lore by other designers (shadow weave!).
but Ed's novels take place in the 1360s or so, so I'm not sure what help that will be |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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R0GUE
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 21:43:57
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My issue/question is whether or not they even have bards in 4e FR? If they put bards in the Player's Guide then they can still have a semblance of the Harpers. But it sounds like to me they are just throwing the bard class away completely. With all the "just wait and see" talk about Barbarians, Monks, and Druids, bards are suspiciously left out of the conversation completely.
If there are no more bards, there are no more Harpers. No more Harpers, no more Realms, IMO. |
You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE.  |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2008 : 21:56:51
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| I cannot remember where the listing of classes that will be in the PHBII was, but I do recall that they are looking at a 4E bard to be included, if they can figure out how to make a bard work in 4E. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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R0GUE
Seeker
USA
54 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 01:09:16
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Well that's good news at last. Any chance someone else could point me toward where that information was released?
If bards survive, then there is hope for the Harpers. |
You have had your pocket pilfered by the R0GUE. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3249 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 01:14:54
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| Well, *if* bards are in the next Players handbook, then you'll have to wait until March 2009. Otherwise, it will be longer. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2008 : 18:17:28
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| Based on all I've heard, it's a good bet bards will be in the next PHB. I don't think they are being ignored. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Topic |
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The Harpers are basically destroyed in 4E Realms
