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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 22:24:22
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Okay, I thought this was just GREAT, on SO many levels -
The Great Beyond: A Guide to the Multiverse
Written by Shemmy. 
It looks like Paizo has 'stolen' the Great Wheel right out from under WotC.
And another volley is fired! 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Jul 2008 22:24:48
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 23:04:15
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| As more time passes, it seems more and more that the Pathfinder RPG is going to be D&D Classic, and 4e is New D&D. Maybe 4e will end up doing better in Europe too... |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2008 : 23:46:37
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| i sure don't hope/think so Hawkins |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 00:57:15
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Markustay, this doesn't look exactly like Planescape or the Great Wheel, but as they say... close enough! especially when one of the Planescape writers is involved!
I know a certain player in my campaign who plays a certain dwarf samurai/paladin will be certainly impressed by these news... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 01:01:10
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Provided this remains true to some of the older lore [that Paizo can use] on the "Great Wheel," and knowing Todd that seems likely, I could get excited about this.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 29 Jul 2008 01:02:29 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 01:03:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Markustay, this doesn't look exactly like Planescape or the Great Wheel, but as they say... close enough! especially when one of the Planescape writers is involved!
Well, it's not a re-working of PLANESCAPE. And I doubt Todd can use too much of the older PS lore... since WotC still retain the license on that particular IP. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 02:02:48
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You are right in that they can't say it is Planescape lore, buuut....
Knowing Shemeska, this is 100% compatible with EVERYTHING already in Planescape, and will not contradict any previous lore we have received for that setting...
Only build upon it. 
Very much like the tome Beyond Countless Doorways, which was 3rd party but written by the entire original Planscape team (and I HIGHLY recommend it). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jul 2008 02:04:12 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 02:10:39
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Ah. Beyond Countless Doorways. Another favorite [and well-used] PLANESCAPE resource on my gaming shelf.
Which reminds me... I've got to finish up that article for Planewalker that attempted to fit some of the planar regions detailed within the book, into the Great Wheel cosmology.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 02:31:20
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Okay, to be 100% fair about this (even though I never used 'Planescape' in the thread title), Shemmy (Secret Identity: Todd Stewart) specifically points out that it is NOT Planescape in This Thread at Paizo, but he does talk about the product, and it really sounds like something worth looking forward to.
EDIT: uh-DOH! thats the same exact link I gave in th OP.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jul 2008 02:32:45 |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 12:35:49
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Maybe 4e will end up doing better in Europe too...
I've yet to hear from anyone in Europe with a positive thing to say about $E yet. I guess, with the Euro being so strong it's not that important for WotC. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 20:39:37
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wonderful news
Beyond Countless Doorways is not bad
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 21:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Kiaransalyn
I've yet to hear from anyone in Europe with a positive thing to say about $E yet. I guess, with the Euro being so strong it's not that important for WotC.
So true, so true.
On a side note, the same time Paizo announced The Great Beyond—A Guide to the Multiverse, they also announced Pathfinder Chronicles: Dragons Revisited (OGL). So many opportunities to invest hard earned money ... It seems that this will be in stores before we get any informations about 4e metallic dragons. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Na-Gang
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
348 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2008 : 21:45:50
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
As more time passes, it seems more and more that the Pathfinder RPG is going to be D&D Classic, and 4e is New D&D. Maybe 4e will end up doing better in Europe too...
I'm not sure whether I should be offended by that... should I? |
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silverwizard
Seeker
Greece
76 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 10:50:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
As more time passes, it seems more and more that the Pathfinder RPG is going to be D&D Classic, and 4e is New D&D. Maybe 4e will end up doing better in Europe too...
I'm not sure whether I should be offended by that... should I?
Good question!  |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 12:36:11
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| Other than Beyond Countless Doorways anyone has Gary Gygax's Cosmos Builder, I intend to buy it, also done by a Planescape fan |
Edited by - Quale on 30 Jul 2008 12:36:41 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 16:45:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Na-Gang
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
As more time passes, it seems more and more that the Pathfinder RPG is going to be D&D Classic, and 4e is New D&D. Maybe 4e will end up doing better in Europe too...
I'm not sure whether I should be offended by that... should I?
I was not trying to offend (knowing that their is a large European population here in the 'Keep). I was just making an allusion to New Coke and how it was a US product that was supposed to be an update to Coca-Cola in the States, but then failed miserably until they introduced it to Europe, where I hear that New Coke is preferred to Coca-Cola Classic (that which Coca-Cola as renamed in the States). It was meant to be a slight at WotC and no one else. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2008 : 16:47:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
Other than Beyond Countless Doorways anyone has Gary Gygax's Cosmos Builder, I intend to buy it, also done by a Planescape fan
I saw Beyond Countless Doorways at my local used book store many times, almost picked it up a few times but didn't because I was trying to practice good stewardship of money, and find myself wishing that I had ever since someone bought it... |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 19:13:15
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-I am looking forward to more lore on the Daemons. (Pathfinders version of Yugoloths) 
-The Four Horsemen (Archdaemons) are nice.(The Leaders of the Daemons, War, Famine, Pestilence, and Death)
-They are somewhat detailed in the Pathfinder Setting Hard cover, which I downloded last night.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 01 Aug 2008 19:16:56 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2008 : 21:52:41
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A couple of clarifications:
1) As much as I love the setting, I'm not a Planescape writer. I was never one of the original PS design team folks (I didn't even play DnD till after the product line was shut down). I've written material in Dragon/Dungeon that covers things from Planescape or expands on it, but I would feel grossly out of place to say that I was a PS writer. I don't deserve that sort of standing given the folks who did work on it.
2) As others have mentioned, and I've said on other forums, The Great Beyond (and Golarion's cosmology in general) isn't the Great Wheel, nor is it Planescape. Much as I -adore- the material, I'm utterly unable to use WotC IP, but it's also something of a blessing in disguise because I've got an incredible amount of creative freedom. Even though the Great Wheel was a conceptual model rather than a literal physical arrangement of planes, some folks still view it as somewhat static in its arrangement, and I've tried really hard to make sure that feeling (as erroneous as I think it might be) doesn't have anything to grip onto with the Pathfinder cosmology. I've tried to make it feel more dynamic in the relation between the various planes.
3) If you've read my stuff before, you know what I like and where I approach the planes from a thematic standpoint. My influences should be obvious, and you'll see them present in the pathfinder material, but keep in mind that it's influenced by, not determined and bound by those things. There are some elements (one archdaemon for instance) that are coming from one of my home campaigns, and my home games aren't always orthodox Planescape (I loved Faction War for instance). Plus, it's not just me in an echo chamber writing. I'm working with material developed by some of the Paizo guys like James 'Demonomicon' Jacobs, so there are more ideas going into the mix than just me, and I think that's a good thing. And if my editors have their hearts set on something, I go with that because I'm being allowed to play (rather happily!) in their sandbox. Still, that said, tons of creative freedom in this.
So heavily influenced by Planescape, working with some of the same real world concepts and things that the Great Wheel mined ever since it was first designed back in 1e, and incorporating some of my own stuff along with expansions of material from some of Paizo's other books that have touched on planar concepts. There are changes from the style of the Great Wheel, and structure and internal history certainly, but the changes should be constructive, and it should always pay respect to previous material that influenced it. There should be no change for the sake of change, or change because game rules come out of left field to dictate flavor text.
You could easily run a Planescape styled game in this cosmology, but it's its own beast, and I hope that it seems fresh and inventive. If I've done my job, it'll come off as a cosmology filled with wonder and terror, something that's inspirational to players and DMs alike, rather than just an extraplanar dungeon for once you've hit X tier of gameplay. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2008 : 02:19:32
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Sounds good Shemmy! I can't wait to buy/read that book!
I really like how all Pathfinder folks I've heard so far are inclusive of other settings or ideas, and strive to make good standalone products that can be readily used with other settings (i.e. backwards compatible with either the Planescape or FR cosmology, in this case...) |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2008 : 14:08:04
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if only the current wotc authors would have a similar attitude
it's good to hear that you had the creative freedom
I remember McComb said somewhere that when designing Planescape they were almost left alone, unhampered, the bosses and editors concentrated on Grubb's setting |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 05 Aug 2008 : 16:05:53
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Hmmm, might be time to go wander the planes again. Although, I'm very wary of going on the word of a 'loth  |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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The Great Wheel gets NEW love...
