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NightElf
Seeker
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United Kingdom
97 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Jul 2003 : 12:13:18
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While running a long campaign, I have been asked numerous times if there is such a thing as Race-Specific Magic. So far I have avoided the question, as there is no mention of it in any of the 2nd Edition Core Rules books. I have a few ideas for RSM, which could include Elven Healing spells or Dwarven Battle spells, but I'm not sure if it would be wise to give the different races such a overpower over the others. Anybody have any ideas?
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2003 : 13:34:09
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| Considering the fact that in 2e, FR Elves had access to High Elven Magic, I would say that the overpowering of some races over others was pretty much already an issue. This is an intriguing idea though. The older Warhammer FB games used a system similar to this idea. Perhaps an adaptation to 2e mechanics is in order. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 04 Jul 2003 13:34:52 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2003 : 01:29:36
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Well, it would certainly make sense that certain races would have certain favored areas of magic, sort of like the 3e gnome illusionist.
Oh, and welcome to Candlekeep, NightElf.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2003 : 09:39:10
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That's right. It makes me wonder though, why they changed the Gnome favored class in 3.5 to Bard, and still allow the race to keep the illusionist gnome-racial abilities.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2003 : 09:42:36
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| They did that? That seems stupid. All in favor of ignoring occurences of Wizards' stupidity? . . . . The ayes have it. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jul 2003 : 10:01:49
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| Yes, so they did. I noticed that they changed that ability requirement for their spell-abilities to Charisma. That, at least, makes more sense . . . . |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2003 : 23:45:57
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When you say 'race-specific', do you mean innate, like the drow ability to cast darkness once a day, or just that the magic is unique to the race?
I use magic that is unique to the race in that certain races have spells that the other races may never have seen before.
I use a spell list from Rolemaster for Lolth worshipping drow elves that NOONE else has access to in the game world. It's called 'Arachnemancy' and it fits Lolth worshipers perfectly, but only they have it. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2003 : 03:29:59
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Sounds good. Do you think you could list them, or is it too long and/or would bring down the Wrath of Alaundo? . . .  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Fibura Gauntlet
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2003 : 15:31:14
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quote:
Originally posted by NightElf
but I'm not sure if it would be wise to give the different races such a overpower over the others. Anybody have any ideas?
There was an article in an old Dragon magazine (#200 I'm afraid, good luck finding one, mine's long since gone  ) which suggested changing the descriptions of the spells, but not the mechanics. Why shouldn't stoneskin be barkskin for elves with a close link to the forest? Or magic missile produce bird-shaped bolts of energy? (bad examples, but you get the idea). As long as the modified spell doesn't do anything more than the original (e.g. the elf isn't summoning real birds with his magic missile) you can give a distinct character to a race, region or even religion with no risk to game balance. |
- Fibura Gauntlet
A scrib(bl)e on the margins of Candlekeep |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2003 : 16:42:29
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Dragon was always full of good tidbits like that...
Well at least it USED to be
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2003 : 03:12:15
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| Of course, barkskin is a second-level druid spell (same level in the Plant Domain) now . . . so that's out. But I like the idea. For instance, stoneskin for an elf might look more like polished marble or obsidion or such. For a dwarf, the caster might choose a harder, angular granite cover. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2003 : 07:23:13
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If anyone is interested in some useful tidbits from that particular Dragon article, or anything else in that issue of Dragon, I have it on hand at the moment. Just let me know.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Fibura Gauntlet
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2003 : 09:25:51
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You might, in theory, be able to send the Margaret Weis short story by e-mail, but not the sheer pleasure of holding it in my hands again
Thanks anyway Sage.
(Fibura casts his hood over his face) |
- Fibura Gauntlet
A scrib(bl)e on the margins of Candlekeep |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Yasraena
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2003 : 05:57:08
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Bookwyrm and Sage, let me know where to send it and it's yours.
It is a bit large to post on the thread, so emailing would probably be better. (Don't want to get on Alaundo's bad side now do we? )
My email is Yasraena.
If you want to find it yourselves, do a search for Rolemaster on any P2P site like Kaazaa or Bearshare, and look for Rolemaster Companion IV. That's where the list is from. Pg. 53 I think. |
"Nindyn vel'uss malar verin z'klaen tlu kyone ulu naut doera nindel vel'bolen nind malar."
Yasraena T'Sarran
Harper of Silverymoon |
Edited by - Yasraena on 09 Jul 2003 06:00:25 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2003 : 06:07:27
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| My email's in my profile: Pawn_of_Prophecy@hotmail.com |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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NightElf
Seeker
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United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2003 : 13:22:47
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| I've introduced a few spells into my campaign now and it's turning out to be quite a good addition. I've mostly added Dwarven spells (the PCs are all dwarves) with spells such as "stone stare" which works like a Crystal Parrot and allows a dwarf wizard to watch from the affected stone like a spycam. Only been used once, the party had to secretly watch over a dwarf king. |
"Those who watch their backs meet death from the front" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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NightElf
Seeker
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United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2003 : 14:07:01
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| I think it'll be quicker to E-Mail them to anyone who needs them, I've developed quite a long list, there's 26 for the dwarves, and then there's elves, gnomes and everything else. If anyone wants a copy, just say and I'll have them to you quickly. |
"Those who watch their backs meet death from the front" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2003 : 14:17:25
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Well, I would like a copy. About the Magic Shop though, why don't I go through some of the spells you are sending me, and if some of them are really good, I'll post them in the Shop - with all credits to you of course .
What do you think?.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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NightElf
Seeker
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United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2003 : 14:27:31
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| Sounds good, I'll compile them into MS word and have them to you as soon as I can. |
"Those who watch their backs meet death from the front" |
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Mythander
Learned Scribe
USA
121 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2003 : 15:58:57
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quote:
Originally posted by NightElf
I've introduced a few spells into my campaign now and it's turning out to be quite a good addition. I've mostly added Dwarven spells (the PCs are all dwarves) with spells such as "stone stare" which works like a Crystal Parrot and allows a dwarf wizard to watch from the affected stone like a spycam. Only been used once, the party had to secretly watch over a dwarf king.
I would be cool to have race specific spells. Much like specialty priests had is 2ed. Spells that members of there order had that no-one else could cast. This could be applied to races. |
Wow! That has no saving throw written all over it. |
Edited by - Mythander on 23 Jul 2003 16:01:15 |
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NightElf
Seeker
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United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2003 : 16:01:59
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Sage of Perth, I've forwarded what I can to your Hotmail address as an attatchment, I've explained why the list you'll have isn't full, and when I can get the full list to you. |
"Those who watch their backs meet death from the front" |
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PathWarden
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2003 : 16:22:21
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I personally see no problem w/ race specific magic, and do not believe it would unbalance a game. Sage's example of Elven High Magic is a good one, and if you read up on it, you will see that when casting the magic, there are possible failures and side effects for the casting of such powerful spells. That in and of itself balances the power of such race specific spells.
I am not sure about Fibura Gauntlet's example of elven magic missiles being shaped like birds; seems a bit overdone to me, but I understand where that train of thought is headed. In the novels (don't remember which off the top of my head) wizards spells were different colors for the same spells so the individual spellcasters did not get confused on whose magic was whose. That was an interesting concept. |
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Fibura Gauntlet
Seeker
United Kingdom
50 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2003 : 14:05:41
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quote:
Originally posted by PathWarden
I am not sure about Fibura Gauntlet's example of elven magic missiles being shaped like birds; seems a bit overdone to me, but I understand where that train of thought is headed.
I did say it was a bad example  . Different colours is probably a better idea, but the main thing I like about the concept is that it identifies the character/race more closely with their magic.
I can envision situations where a spell is cast and the caster isn't visible, but the PC's have the clue of what the spell looked like to help track the wizard down, etc.
As to unbalancing the game world, if, for example, the Elves had exclusive access to a new range of Healing spells, that could have a significant impact on the outcome of major battles. I like the idea, but I can see why NightElf was wary of tripping himself up. |
- Fibura Gauntlet
A scrib(bl)e on the margins of Candlekeep |
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NightElf
Seeker
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United Kingdom
97 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2003 : 17:08:58
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| Fibura Gauntlet was right, the Healing idea did serious damage to the game, especially in battles. I tried with a spell "Spirit Seal" where if the caster dies, then the receiptant of the spell also dies. It worked fine until the wizard repeatedly killed himself and was raised by a priest in the party. They were killing enemies way too easy |
"Those who watch their backs meet death from the front" |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2003 : 23:42:04
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quote:
Originally posted by NightElf
Fibura Gauntlet was right, the Healing idea did serious damage to the game, especially in battles. I tried with a spell "Spirit Seal" where if the caster dies, then the receiptant of the spell also dies. It worked fine until the wizard repeatedly killed himself and was raised by a priest in the party. They were killing enemies way too easy
I have a serious pet peeve with that. Just because Ressurection magic is possible, does not mean people will WANT to die. No matter what, Death is traumatic. Life magic makes it less TRAGIC, but I think the characters should all fear death. My characters all have a fear of dying, but they accept it as they must. I never liked the attitude of if I die, I will get ressurected. That is one of the Only things I give experience point penalties for; roleplaying an attitude of nonchalance with death. I have been thinking of implementing a death penalty in experience. 500 points X level if you die, to the minimum of your current level. I am not sure if this is fair or not yet so I have not implemented it, but I keep analyzing it. I am SURE I am going to implement an experience point penalty of SOME sort jsut for dying becasue dying SHOULD be traumatic. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2003 : 07:42:42
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| Well, you're supposed to loose a level when this happens, right? So you're suggesting that it should be more? (Not disagreeing, since I've never really liked that idea in the first place. Probably my corruptive Christian self. ) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Race Specific Magic
