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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 07:30:30
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Question. Looking through my 4E PHB and trying to wrap my head around the new rules, I started thinking about multi-classing. I am not seeing specifics on this. I do see multi class feats. Thoughts?
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 08:00:19
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My players are experimenting with the cross-class feats as a way of mixing classes that share the same role.
For example, there is a player in my group that is mixing in Ranger abilities with his 1st level Rogue character, as both of those classes fill the Striker role.
Specifically, he selected the Warrior of the Wild multiclass feat (found on page 208 of the PHB1) to gain a ranger skill and to gain use of the Ranger Class Ability Hunter’s Quarry once per encounter.
Coupled with the Rogue abilities of Weapon Talent and Sneak Attack, the Rogue/Ranger in our play group can (once per encounter) hit a foe and do an extra 2d6 of damage, on top of any rogue class powers he’s using.
That players has already shown how this combination can pull him out of a jam. He’s used it to kill off a particularly tough level 2 Kobold and break the flank it was giving another kobold.
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 17:00:12
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| thanks. So I was in the correct area of the book. Multi class and power swap feats are how this is handled now. This will take some time to get used to. Additionally, it appears a fighter for example, would always be a fighter, but may "dabble" in another class such as wizardry. I also read you can access a second class but not a third? |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2008 : 19:57:01
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Yeah they do have that limit.
You can dabble in a second class, but not a third. --PHB1, page 208.
I wonder if that's for purposes of play balance or ease of play? This is something I could see myself house-ruling right out of the rules. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 01:33:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Yeah they do have that limit.
You can dabble in a second class, but not a third. --PHB1, page 208.
I wonder if that's for purposes of play balance or ease of play? This is something I could see myself house-ruling right out of the rules.
Yeah I think I can see myself dabbling in house-ruling of this also, should the need or want ever arise for triple classing. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 01:33:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
Yeah they do have that limit.
You can dabble in a second class, but not a third. --PHB1, page 208.
I wonder if that's for purposes of play balance or ease of play? This is something I could see myself house-ruling right out of the rules.
Yeah I think I can see myself dabbling in house-ruling of this also, should the need or want ever arise for triple classing. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 01:39:02
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| Keep in mind also that half-elves get to dabble in a cross class power at 1st level, on top of being able to pick up another set of cross class abilities with feats. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 05:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Keep in mind also that half-elves get to dabble in a cross class power at 1st level, on top of being able to pick up another set of cross class abilities with feats.
Interesting. I skipped right over the Half Elf entry, as the race normally does not interest me. The new changes may alter my opinion though. Thanks. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 07:48:50
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Two of my players came close to selecting the Half-Elf, but one opted out.
The other player did pick half-drow (I ruled he could use the half-elf racial list and we could tweak his character if/when actual rules for playing half-drow ever came out).
Having the built-in ability to dable in cross-classing was tempting to them. |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 14:59:25
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| My half-elf cleric in one adventure is dabbling in one of the Paladin powers. A friend in an adventure I am running has a half-elf Warlock who took cleave as his encounter power...not sure how useful that is with his +0 str mod though.... |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 18:32:26
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quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Question. Looking through my 4E PHB and trying to wrap my head around the new rules, I started thinking about multi-classing. I am not seeing specifics on this. I do see multi class feats. Thoughts?
Multiclassing in 4E is very different from how it's been for a long time (if not since D&D started--I don't know). That's probably the most important thing to keep in mind. The multiclassing feats are how you multiclass, and as mentioned you can only choose one. You do not level up in two different classes. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 18:34:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I wonder if that's for purposes of play balance or ease of play?
Perhaps both. I have to say the new multiclassing rules don't really bother me because I am only rarely inclined to have one character use more than two classes. I was never a fan, personally, of the multiclassing "craziness" that was more or less encouraged by the 3E rules. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 30 Jun 2008 18:36:34 |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 19:33:25
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| I wonder how this will affect certain characters who had more than 2 classes (e.g. Elminster and Drizzt)....I wonder if Drizzt will have some kind of Rage for the hunter and if El will have simply "forgotten" how to be a rogue/cleric/fighter??? Maybe they will become just pure Ranger and Wizard respectively. |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 20:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I wonder how this will affect certain characters who had more than 2 classes (e.g. Elminster and Drizzt)....I wonder if Drizzt will have some kind of Rage for the hunter and if El will have simply "forgotten" how to be a rogue/cleric/fighter??? Maybe they will become just pure Ranger and Wizard respectively.
Rich seemed to hint that Drizzt's and Elminster's classes would be Ranger and Wizard single-classed. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 21:25:03
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
I wonder how this will affect certain characters who had more than 2 classes (e.g. Elminster and Drizzt)....I wonder if Drizzt will have some kind of Rage for the hunter and if El will have simply "forgotten" how to be a rogue/cleric/fighter??? Maybe they will become just pure Ranger and Wizard respectively.
Rich seemed to hint that Drizzt's and Elminster's classes would be Ranger and Wizard single-classed.
Yet another un-intended bit of Hilarity from Rich.
I picture someone trying to stuff a centuries old Oak tree back into an acorn while yelling "Your just a seed again!! You can't be a seed/sprout/seedling/young tree/mature reproducing tree, thats too cumbersome. We are taking you back to your origins. You shall be a seed with sprouting and nut-bearing feats! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 22:13:25
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| Actually, both of them are NPCs, so they'll do whatever the designers decide they can do, just like any other monster/NPC, since they don't play by "PC" rules. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2008 : 23:16:54
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Actually, both of them are NPCs, so they'll do whatever the designers decide they can do, just like any other monster/NPC, since they don't play by "PC" rules.
I have to agree. Besides, many NPCs don't easily fit into the same molds the PCs have to fit. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2008 : 19:22:42
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Ahhh...but now those darned NPCs will be out of balance with the rest of the world! Jealous folks will call for their death because their character can't do that! Those all too powerful NPCs! Damn them all to hell...
Sarcasm intended. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2008 : 14:53:55
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| Rich Baker has said on the WotC that we should expect NPCs in general to have only the bare minimum of stats (ie. name, class, level). That probably isn't a bad thing, although a part of me can't help but think they are going to publish fully detailed stats for Drizzt. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 03:17:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
Question. Looking through my 4E PHB and trying to wrap my head around the new rules, I started thinking about multi-classing. I am not seeing specifics on this. I do see multi class feats. Thoughts?
Multiclassing in 4E is very different from how it's been for a long time (if not since D&D started--I don't know). That's probably the most important thing to keep in mind. The multiclassing feats are how you multiclass, and as mentioned you can only choose one. You do not level up in two different classes.
It wasn't like that in 1e for certain |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2008 : 23:01:13
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
It wasn't like that in 1e for certain
Thanks for letting me know. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2008 : 02:35:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
It wasn't like that in 1e for certain
Thanks for letting me know.
well, I am old so I know these things, ya young whipper snapper |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11808 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2008 : 20:15:33
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Yeah, I'm not liking the multiclass rules. They said in one of the pre-release books that they were very worried about having the "Gish" or warrior-mage to be viable. Wizard in its own right sucks under the new rules, but I can't imagine anything more crippling than a warrior type who takes up mage in the new rules. Sure, I understand that the swordmage class will probably be developed... but maybe its just me but these rules seem way TOO simplified.... and I don't get how its supposed to speed things up.
I liked some of the world idea changes they were coming out with for 4th edition (for instance, I liked what I was hearing for the development of shadow, the feywild, and even the reducing of the outer planes to finite areas)... but these class mechanics seem to be problematic. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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4E multi classing
