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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
 Posted - 23 May 2008 : 23:07:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
WotC will MOST CERTAINLY interpret it as CK taking sides. They have taken enough 'hits' to their structural integrity in the past couple of weeks to make them VERY paranoid - If they see their "#1 Fansite" jumping ship as well...
It could be the straw that broke the camels back, and right now, we NEED CK more then ever....
Well met
Indeed, Markustay. Very well said  It is hard times for us all, but Candlekeep is the Library of Forgottn Realms lore, whatever edition it may be. |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2008 : 16:59:48
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| Okay, so what about a forum specifically for various scribes to present their alternate versions of the Realms, where they will not get rolled together with everything else in the General Forgotten Realms Chat. Fans of the 4e Realms are bound to come up with their own alternate timelines/versions of the Realms, as well as previous scribes. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2008 : 17:18:29
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Okay, so what about a forum specifically for various scribes to present their alternate versions of the Realms, where they will not get rolled together with everything else in the General Forgotten Realms Chat. Fans of the 4e Realms are bound to come up with their own alternate timelines/versions of the Realms, as well as previous scribes.
I always post things like that under Running the Realms, but maybe another title would be better, I haven't thought much about it. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 06:13:27
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I'm a day late and a buck short to this discussion but I'm pretty sure I made the suggestion way back when about separating 4E Realms from the rest. The reason or logic to it is simple, ALL THE LORE from pre-4E is useless. Everyone in the AD&D supplements is dead or dying. Locations have changed and monsters in those locations are being changed.
In my opinion nothing can be gained by "the new 4e players" by having 4e lore mingling with lore that's 100 years old. And quite honestly, I'd rather not come here and find myself reading something about 4E realms thinking it's a something else. :P
And before we talk about Time of Troubles and the people that don't like it.. how much did Time of Troubles actually change? Come on guys, Bane went on vacation for a while, that's all. Mystra was still Mystra. Her Chosen continued to meddle, her alignment changed did nothing and actually impacted little. Sure a couple gods died and Mask got screwed. Can't even blame the shadow weave on her alignment change.. the fact that it survived Spell Plague says to me that it was coming one way or another. But then again the Time of Troubles is a distant memory and I started playing the Realms after it hit the Realms.. so maybe my knowledge is tainted. :) |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 13:37:24
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
And before we talk about Time of Troubles and the people that don't like it.. how much did Time of Troubles actually change? Come on guys, Bane went on vacation for a while, that's all. Mystra was still Mystra. Her Chosen continued to meddle, her alignment changed did nothing and actually impacted little. Sure a couple gods died and Mask got screwed. Can't even blame the shadow weave on her alignment change.. the fact that it survived Spell Plague says to me that it was coming one way or another. But then again the Time of Troubles is a distant memory and I started playing the Realms after it hit the Realms.. so maybe my knowledge is tainted. :)
You know what? I agree. The ToT, other than the chaos that went on during it, was barely an event. I don't think that the minor shuffling of gods was all that much of a happening... And yet, as I say, there are people that absolutely hate it, and refuse to touch it. So regardless of what you or I may think, these are the feelings of other people we're talking about. We may not agree, but we've got to respect their opinions. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 May 2008 13:43:41 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 15:13:39
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I suppose its a matter of perspective.
The ToT may have seemed horrendous at the time, but in comparison, its small potatoes next to the Spellplague.
I think the biggest difference - and the deal breaker - is the HUGE timejump. The last time, I believe the campaign only moved forward a decade. The same thing this time would have probably kept most of the fan-base intact - even if we hated the changes, we still could use most of our old material.
The timeleap basically stamped 'Garbage' on 90% of our old lore. Sure, its still valid (as many will argue), but its HISTORY... and how useful is FR history in running your games, really?
Its background, thats all. The DM needs it more then the players - they'll listen to whatever he tells them. But when they get to a town and ask you whats the name of the Inn, or the even the Innkeeper (or even his wife, three kids, and dog), we just can't answer those questions anynmore. Unless, of course, we fork over $15 a month in hopes that they will actually provide some of this information (I think me winning Loto has better odds, but whatever).
Personally, I think the time jump was a purely selfish decision on their part - because it obviously wasn't done for US. Now all those 'Creative Geniuses' get to over-write the old lore with all their own 'super cool' ideas.
It reminds of the guy who shows up at a game session, and tells everyone else they are playing wrong (because he knows better). I've seen them at the LGS, conventions, and even when invited to other group's games.
No one likes those gamers. What one group of people think is cool and belongs in their games is completely different from what another group enjoys.
Now, we have a bunch of 'official types' doing exactly that - forcing their own versions down our throats. Note I said 'versions' (plural), because they don't even seem to be on the same page with each other. Sure, they think this campaign is exciting and 'ground-breaking', but in reality, its juts a small group of people who are pleased with themselves...
just like all those individual gaming groups who mistakenly think theirs is the best.
To keep this on topic, I notice the WotC boards are down... AGAIN. Maybe they need us to start sending in that $5 a month so they can keep it running?
Anyway, I really do see traffic here increasing several fold over the next year. Just as Paizo has become the new home of 3e, this forum should become the home of the Realms - as always. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 May 2008 15:21:11 |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 15:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I think the biggest difference - and the deal breaker - is the HUGE timejump. The last time, I believe the campaign only moved forward a decade.
If even that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 May 2008 15:24:18 |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 16:17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Usually, alternate versions of the Realms have been presented in either the Running the Realms or Adventuring shelves.
But what I am asking for, is that we have an official shelf for those of us (pre- and post-Spellplague) to present our alternate versions of the Realms. Neither of those shelves say to me, "Come here and find out how others present their Realms."
P.S. Thank you for the CK vernacular for "forum."  |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 17:02:15
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Usually, alternate versions of the Realms have been presented in either the Running the Realms or Adventuring shelves.
But what I am asking for, is that we have an official shelf for those of us (pre- and post-Spellplague) to present our alternate versions of the Realms. Neither of those shelves say to me, "Come here and find out how others present their Realms."
Aye. As it is, I think you can probably just as easily identify your pre- and/or post-Spellplague scrolls by using a special tag in the scroll's title to indicate alternate content. Something like [Pre-Spellplague] "Scroll Title Here" perhaps.
Really, we don't have that many discussions about alternate Realms campaigns that would warrant an entirely new shelf. Regardless of whether an FR campaign is using official content, or something you or your DM has written up especially for your home campaign... it's still all about "running the Realms."
quote:
P.S. Thank you for the CK vernacular for "forum."
You're welcome. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Baldwin Stonewood
Acolyte
34 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 17:45:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I suppose its a matter of perspective.
The ToT may have seemed horrendous at the time, but in comparison, its small potatoes next to the Spellplague.
I think the biggest difference - and the deal breaker - is the HUGE timejump. The last time, I believe the campaign only moved forward a decade. The same thing this time would have probably kept most of the fan-base intact - even if we hated the changes, we still could use most of our old material.
The timeleap basically stamped 'Garbage' on 90% of our old lore. Sure, its still valid (as many will argue), but its HISTORY... and how useful is FR history in running your games, really?
Its background, thats all. The DM needs it more then the players - they'll listen to whatever he tells them. But when they get to a town and ask you whats the name of the Inn, or the even the Innkeeper (or even his wife, three kids, and dog), we just can't answer those questions anynmore. Unless, of course, we fork over $15 a month in hopes that they will actually provide some of this information (I think me winning Loto has better odds, but whatever).
Personally, I think the time jump was a purely selfish decision on their part - because it obviously wasn't done for US. Now all those 'Creative Geniuses' get to over-write the old lore with all their own 'super cool' ideas.
It reminds of the guy who shows up at a game session, and tells everyone else they are playing wrong (because he knows better). I've seen them at the LGS, conventions, and even when invited to other group's games.
No one likes those gamers. What one group of people think is cool and belongs in their games is completely different from what another group enjoys.
Now, we have a bunch of 'official types' doing exactly that - forcing their own versions down our throats. Note I said 'versions' (plural), because they don't even seem to be on the same page with each other. Sure, they think this campaign is exciting and 'ground-breaking', but in reality, its juts a small group of people who are pleased with themselves...
just like all those individual gaming groups who mistakenly think theirs is the best.
To keep this on topic, I notice the WotC boards are down... AGAIN. Maybe they need us to start sending in that $5 a month so they can keep it running?
Anyway, I really do see traffic here increasing several fold over the next year. Just as Paizo has become the new home of 3e, this forum should become the home of the Realms - as always.
I will admit that I rarely browse WoWC site anymore but I have taken that time and energy and moved it over to Paizo. Although relatively new to this site, I do read it often for ideas, recommendations and comments. I would imagine that this site will pick up even more in few weeks. |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 17:54:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
If a 4 ed. forum was segregated one could just as well form a "Greenwoods Realms forum" or a "TSR-forum". If things become unmanageable for those using 4ed.this could always be changed at a later date, but separating the 4ed. from start seems to much of an "us and Them" situation for me.
I agree, if I understand correctly. I think the only split that makes sense is Greenwood Realms and Published Realms. All other variants is IMO likely to split the users.
And, to stay on topic, my own participation has dropped considerably the last year for a number of reasons. The monotonous complaints on the same issues is one of them.
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 17:11:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And before we talk about Time of Troubles and the people that don't like it.. how much did Time of Troubles actually change? Come on guys, Bane went on vacation for a while, that's all. Mystra was still Mystra. Her Chosen continued to meddle, her alignment changed did nothing and actually impacted little. Sure a couple gods died and Mask got screwed. Can't even blame the shadow weave on her alignment change.. the fact that it survived Spell Plague says to me that it was coming one way or another. But then again the Time of Troubles is a distant memory and I started playing the Realms after it hit the Realms.. so maybe my knowledge is tainted. :)
I don't know what all the hubbub is about. The fact that WotC releases the GHotR should be enough insight to the possibilities of lore intermingling throughout Faerun's timeline that squabbling over when or whether certain historical or future events occurred in one's campaign is completely discretionary to each individual DM. I fully plan on using a myriad of good campaign source material from GHotR in my present day Realms, mostly as reference to why someone or something may still be discovered today.
That said, there are also some elements of the past (but mostly, future) timelines I refuse to even acknowledge. Some of the past and virtually all of the future events that have/will transpire in the Realms simply won't happen in my Realms. And if that prevents me from being able to discuss varying effects of events I've intentionally declined, that's the way it goes. The whole canonical aspect of the Realms has always been a thorn in my side, mainly because of the expectations to conform to official Realms timelines and events in order to be able to say you're playing true to the Realms, but I see every single DM's private campaign events as occurring in their own quiet corner of the Realms.
If another DM decides the ToT happened, the Spellplague will too, and I'm a player in that game, I'll just have to live with his decisions and play along. And while it might not personally appeal to my own preferences for how the Realms "should" be run, the variations from campaign to campaign are what makes this game great.
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I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Decreased traffic over the past year?
