| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Apex
Learned Scribe
USA
229 Posts |
 Posted - 28 May 2008 : 15:43:57
|
|
The question I have is: Is Candlekeep jumping to 4th edition or will it stick with the previous editions of the realms exclusively (seeing as the time jump may cause some serious conflicts regarding cannon)? What is the general consensus of the members here? I for one would like to see Candlekeep remain true to the previous editions of the Realms with maybe only a separate forum specifically for 4th edition.
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 16:11:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
The question I have is: Is Candlekeep jumping to 4th edition or will it stick with the previous editions of the realms exclusively (seeing as the time jump may cause some serious conflicts regarding cannon)? What is the general consensus of the members here? I for one would like to see Candlekeep remain true to the previous editions of the Realms with maybe only a separate forum specifically for 4th edition.
Candlekeep is currently edition-neutral, and from what I understand we intend to stay that way. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 May 2008 16:12:40 |
 |
|
|
Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 16:36:00
|
In relation to another querry in another thread The Sage tackled the issue already. I will quote from there as I think his words answer your question somewhat if not completely:
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I'm not really sure that's appropriate. It kinda reminds me of the same problems we might encounter with the idea of splitting of the Forums into those for 1e/2e/3e fans, and those who are solely on-board for the 4e changes.
[snip]
My own personal concerns aside, Candlekeep should still try to maintain the perception that it is a free and open community where Realms fans, old and new, can come together and engage in discussions about ALL editions of the setting.
|
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 28 May 2008 16:39:03 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
|
|
BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 17:07:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
I for one would like to see Candlekeep remain true to the previous editions of the Realms with maybe only a separate forum specifically for 4th edition.
i want this also.. But 4th edition will devour everything in the end ... All 3.5 edition products (inside wizards or outside) will transform to 4th edition.. This will happen and to candlekeep..sooner or later |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 17:16:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
I for one would like to see Candlekeep remain true to the previous editions of the Realms with maybe only a separate forum specifically for 4th edition.
i want this also.. But 4th edition will devour everything in the end ... All 3.5 edition products (inside wizards or outside) will transform to 4th edition.. This will happen and to candlekeep..sooner or later
Eh, I doubt it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 17:31:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
quote:
Originally posted by Apex
I for one would like to see Candlekeep remain true to the previous editions of the Realms with maybe only a separate forum specifically for 4th edition.
i want this also.. But 4th edition will devour everything in the end ... All 3.5 edition products (inside wizards or outside) will transform to 4th edition.. This will happen and to candlekeep..sooner or later
But we don't produce products. And we're not affiliated with WotC. So we can happily keep talking about any prior edition, as long as people are willing to do so.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 17:42:29
|
As I understand it--and please scribes, correct me on any of these points:
Candlekeep has always been a haven for people playing all different versions of the game, so it doesn't make sense to talk of CK "converting" to a new edition (it's currently in the 1e/2e/3e/3.5e version of the game). The only question is integrated 4e in there as well, and it looks to me as if CK is just going to be adding that. So now it will be 1-4e CK.
What affects the answer to any given Realmslore question is--and always has been--the CONTEXT of the question. If you're asking about anything historical, you're going to get different answers depending on what period of history--so it is with the different editions. For instance, if you wanted to know about the pre-ToT Mystra, you might want a 1e-related answer (i.e., it may be more likely that you'd find the answer in an older product), but if you want to know about the Spellplague, well, you'll probably get a 4e answer (from a 4e product).
There can be overlap, of course, and sourcebooks from different editions may have different answers for different questions. I know there are some number of contradiction between 2e and 3e, for instance. Some of these are simple mistakes, but some of them are contextual--i.e., the answer is different (or differently understood) at different times.
A potential strength of the 4e FR, as I see it, is that it doesn't have to contradict anything in 3e--because they are removing it a way from the current Realms status-quo, they can keep everything we understand today "as-is" and just add new stuff without trampling over current stuff. Whether scribes like the new lore or not is strictly their choice.
If in the future, any number of scribes don't want to bother learning about 4e, they can just keep answering 3e questions (or earlier), and everyone can answer historical questions. That will still be a very necessary function.
The 4e additions don't invalidate the 3e lore in any way, or make any 3e games irrelevant. There's also still plenty of room for adventures in 3e, just as there always have been--perhaps no more sourcebooks, but you're probably already set and there will be lore to be gleaned from the 4e books.
If your PCs were on the track to saving the world, well, you must have already customized your realms (as the setting is *designed* for), and whether you bother with the whole Spellplague thing or not is totally your call. Everyone's home Realms campaign is just a little bit different--how much attention you pay to canon or how it affects your game is--and should be--up to you, the DM and players.
There's no reason you can't adapt your game to use the 4e D&D rules without the Spellplague . . . or stick with whatever version you're playing--as you have always been able to do.
Do I have the right of it? CK sages?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 28 May 2008 17:45:00 |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 18:06:07
|
Yup - thats pretty much the way I see it.
CK doesn't need to take any 'official' stance - the posters will include whatever information is neccessary for them to get the answer they need, regardless of edition.
I thought a post-Spellplague forum would have been helpful, but only in organizing the time-period the question is set in. If I were to create a Dragonlance Forum, I would definately seperate that into different 'Ages'.
But the 'powers that be' have also pointed out the problem in that - having ONE SEPERATE forum almost appears as an osticization on our part, so to avoid that I suppose I would have to agree that it might not be such a great idea (even if it is efficient).
Like I keep saying - I have NO problem with 4e fans - the more the merrier. There really is no 'wrong way' to love the Realms. If anything, I would prefer they mix with us, so we can show them the glory that was.
Without being too 'preachy'.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 28 May 2008 18:21:36 |
|
|
|
Dart Ambermoon
Learned Scribe
Germany
253 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 18:12:56
|
| Besides, oftentimes itīs exactly the combination of lore spanning several editions, that makes a picture complete. And to echo Markustay, "the posters will include whatever information is neccessary for them to get the answer they need, regardless of edition". Questions for lore are rarely accompanied by a request for specific edition lore, and even if itīs not really a problem, no matter how many editions there are. |
~ In Finder I trust, for danger I lust ~ |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 18:33:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
If your PCs were on the track to saving the world, well, you must have already customized your realms (as the setting is *designed* for), and whether you bother with the whole Spellplague thing or not is totally your call. Everyone's home Realms campaign is just a little bit different--how much attention you pay to canon or how it affects your game is--and should be--up to you, the DM and players.
There's no reason you can't adapt your game to use the 4e D&D rules without the Spellplague . . . or stick with whatever version you're playing--as you have always been able to do.
Do I have the right of it? CK sages?
Hell yes. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 28 May 2008 18:34:48 |
|
|
|
Fillow
Master of Realmslore
France
1608 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2008 : 19:57:32
|
I'm not a D&D player but just a FR novels reader. So, I may mistake.
CK was created in 1999, while AD&D2 was on the air.
D&D3 came in 2000 and D&D3.5 came in 2003. Then, did CK change any of its systems ? I do not think so.
So why should CK change its way of lore discussing ?
Moreover, scribes almost always quote their sources. so it will be as easy as is it now to place the lore within the timeline.
I'm not sure that I'm still in-topic... and that my sentences understandable ! Are they ? Please tell me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
"Today is a good day to smile",
Fillow Big'n'Book Mahlemiut 'Lead-dog', Son of Garl, Wanderer of the Masked Leaf and Namer of Oghma.
- Fight in the arena and have fun ! : La brute.com
- Feel free to take part to these projects : Post-Spellplague bibliography ; 4E index project ; Taverns and inns of the Realms ; Dogs of the Realms ; Descriptions of places in the novels ; forums, RPG, FR Abbreviations and Acronyms
- Come and have a look at the already asked questions from the Forgotten Realms Trivia Challenge
I am a French FR fan, so please forgive my lapses in English language and do not hesitate to correct me. Thanks a lot. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 00:57:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
I'm not sure that I'm still in-topic... and that my sentences understandable ! Are they ? Please tell me.
Yes. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 01:36:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
As I understand it--and please scribes, correct me on any of these points:
Candlekeep has always been a haven for people playing all different versions of the game, so it doesn't make sense to talk of CK "converting" to a new edition (it's currently in the 1e/2e/3e/3.5e version of the game). The only question is integrated 4e in there as well, and it looks to me as if CK is just going to be adding that. So now it will be 1-4e CK.
Exactly. There's really no easy way to distinguish the division between the previous editions of the Realmslore and what's coming in 4e FR. And while some may claim that the Spellplague is a convenient line of delineation -- the simple fact is, it is STILL Realmslore. And just as 3e lore was altered here and there, so will the 4e lore. It's also just as likely that some parts will remain the same as it was in previous editions. So lore discussions about these elements will still include previous editions of the Realmslore.
quote:
What affects the answer to any given Realmslore question is--and always has been--the CONTEXT of the question. If you're asking about anything historical, you're going to get different answers depending on what period of history--so it is with the different editions. For instance, if you wanted to know about the pre-ToT Mystra, you might want a 1e-related answer (i.e., it may be more likely that you'd find the answer in an older product), but if you want to know about the Spellplague, well, you'll probably get a 4e answer (from a 4e product).
Indeed. Erik has the right of it.
quote:
There can be overlap, of course, and sourcebooks from different editions may have different answers for different questions. I know there are some number of contradiction between 2e and 3e, for instance. Some of these are simple mistakes, but some of them are contextual--i.e., the answer is different (or differently understood) at different times.
Very true. So long as the scribe is keen on learning about ALL the options presented in the various editions of the Realmslore, there shouldn't be a problem. If a scribe merely wants to know specifically about the Mystra of 1e, he/she should simply state as such in his/her opening post. If said scribe then wants to learn about the impact of the Spellplague on the Mystra of 2e, 3e and 4e FR, there's plenty of opportunity for new discussion in a new scroll.
quote:
A potential strength of the 4e FR, as I see it, is that it doesn't have to contradict anything in 3e--because they are removing it a way from the current Realms status-quo, they can keep everything we understand today "as-is" and just add new stuff without trampling over current stuff. Whether scribes like the new lore or not is strictly their choice.
A good point. So long as scribes are clear in what edition of the Realmslore they want to discuss here at Candlekeep, this type of perspective should keep things simple and effective.
quote:
If in the future, any number of scribes don't want to bother learning about 4e, they can just keep answering 3e questions (or earlier), and everyone can answer historical questions. That will still be a very necessary function.
Aye.
quote:
The 4e additions don't invalidate the 3e lore in any way, or make any 3e games irrelevant. There's also still plenty of room for adventures in 3e, just as there always have been--perhaps no more sourcebooks, but you're probably already set and there will be lore to be gleaned from the 4e books.
If your PCs were on the track to saving the world, well, you must have already customized your realms (as the setting is *designed* for), and whether you bother with the whole Spellplague thing or not is totally your call. Everyone's home Realms campaign is just a little bit different--how much attention you pay to canon or how it affects your game is--and should be--up to you, the DM and players.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
quote:
There's no reason you can't adapt your game to use the 4e D&D rules without the Spellplague . . . or stick with whatever version you're playing--as you have always been able to do.
Do I have the right of it? CK sages?
You do indeed. Much appreciated Erik. Thank you. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 01:41:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Fillow
D&D3 came in 2000 and D&D3.5 came in 2003. Then, did CK change any of its systems ? I do not think so.
Well, Alaundo's added new shelves here and there when it's been required -- like the Chamber of Sages for example. But the basic structure and Forums set-up hasn't changed much in the nearly 6 years that I've been here. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 03:00:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
But the basic structure and Forums set-up hasn't changed much in the nearly 6 years that I've been here.
... Unlike your avatar.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 29 May 2008 03:01:57 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 04:08:46
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Heh. You know, I was actually thinking about selecting a new avatar just yesterday.
Why am I not surprised?
Bring back the kender! I liked that one!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 15:10:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
So long as the scribe is keen on learning about ALL the options presented in the various editions of the Realmslore, there shouldn't be a problem. If a scribe merely wants to know specifically about the Mystra of 1e, he/she should simply state as such in his/her opening post. If said scribe then wants to learn about the impact of the Spellplague on the Mystra of 2e, 3e and 4e FR, there's plenty of opportunity for new discussion in a new scroll.
I think that in the majority of cases, it will be pretty clear from context, or that quetsions will naturally lend themselves to contextual answers (depending on how general/specific they are).
If the question is "tell me about Mystra," that's all kinds of sources. If it's "tell me about Mystra's death," that's GHotR and potentially 4e sources. If it's "tell me about the pantheon post-spellplague," then it's pretty much all 4e sources.
I think the key is to see the world as a world on a continuum. The Realmslore is tied to the *era* of the world, not the edition of the game. The game is merely intended as a convenient and playable representation of the world--i.e., it lets you experience/live the realms as a player in a game.
Now of course the Realms as a setting is kinda programmed as a support to the game--as a way in which you can play it--but as the game fluctuates in style, the Realms stay the same. It's just one, big, lasting, ongoing world.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
|
|
|
Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2008 : 19:01:00
|
Well met
Apologies for my late arrival; issues with the server and other matters have kept me away in the deepest dungeons
Indeed, Erik (and most others who have put things straight on the matter), as i've said before, Candlekeep is a site and forum for fans of the Forgotten Realms. The edition of FR has no bearing, we will support all editions and make fans of all editions feel welcome and feel that they can get a great deal of worth from Candlekeep.
As the Sage mentioned, this crusty old place has barely changed since the day it was lauched. Certainly, it's got bigger and the shelves have got more and more packed with scrolls and tomes, but Candlekeep is essential the same, i'm happy to say 
If you don't wish to embrace 4e, then that's fine... there will be all the current material on the site and i'm sure pre-4e discussions will be plentiful on the forums. Likewise with 4e, we will continue to provide product and novel information on the site itself, and also contain any such documents or articles which are submitted to us. The forums are also open to 4e discussions and we will continue to provide monthly Book Clubs for all new releases, as always.
One minor change which I will be applying shortly, will be the Products page. 4th Edition products will have their own page. The current page was becoming a little too messy and the number of listed "Campaign Setting" tomes was already confusing.
|
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
|
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31777 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2008 : 01:52:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Alaundo
As the Sage mentioned, this crusty old place has barely changed since the day it was lauched. Certainly, it's got bigger and the shelves have got more and more packed with scrolls and tomes, but Candlekeep is essential the same, i'm happy to say
Of course, it wasn't our intention to deliberately plague these halls with the dreaded ASP gremlins. It's unfortunate that the bigger Candlekeep has got, the more hiding places gremlins have find in order to wreck their own special brand of havoc. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2008 : 11:25:26
|
| Well, I'm glad Candlekeep is devoted to the Realms in itself, and accordingly will address all editions of it. The canon changes wrought by 4e are a huge turnoff to me. Personally, I'm not interested in that at all. And I'm grateful that we all have a place to continue to discuss campaigns run in the setting prior to those changes. |
Edited by - Lemernis on 30 May 2008 22:50:36 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Is Candlekeep jumping to 4th
