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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Jan 2009 : 19:48:22
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-None of us have access to WotC's business profits, in terms of how much one thing makes, in relation to how much other products WotC makes make, or how much they want to make, and so on.
-Regardless, with WotC's current model of business, releasing all of the information the setting is going to have all at once, sustaining "good" sales is likely not to happen. People who buy the books have them, and as more people buy the books, the slimmer the market for those who don't have them becomes. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2009 : 08:49:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Dagnirion
-None of us have access to WotC's business profits, in terms of how much one thing makes, in relation to how much other products WotC makes make, or how much they want to make, and so on.
-Regardless, with WotC's current model of business, releasing all of the information the setting is going to have all at once, sustaining "good" sales is likely not to happen. People who buy the books have them, and as more people buy the books, the slimmer the market for those who don't have them becomes.
The main problem is with the lack of imagination and quality -Seriously, they are dishing out plots that resemble Heroes 5.
On the other hand, if they are good, they can always introduce new stuff and still get people to be their customers. But in our case... well, that goes without saying. |
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sneakypetev
Acolyte
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 07:23:54
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I agree with Mace.As a long time fan of both D&D and the FR novels and campaign setting, I feel as though the designers of both the RPG and the FR setting have ignored " the old crowd". I beleive this to be a mistake on their part. It's the long time fans who spend the money for their products. Over the years I have purchased almost every book written in the Forgotten Realms and all the scource books for the FR campaign world and I would have done the same w/ 4E if the had not slaughtered it. Going for the quick buck by targetting the younger generation,( who have the attention span of a ferret on crack), is going to lead to a 5E. My hope is that it comes soon and they get it right this time.
PS: I pre-emptively apologize to younger people for my ferret ref. I am just an old guy ranting |
"Go for the eyes boo,go for the eyes!"- Minsc |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2009 : 12:56:20
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quote:
Originally posted by sneakypetev
I agree with Mace.As a long time fan of both D&D and the FR novels and campaign setting, I feel as though the designers of both the RPG and the FR setting have ignored " the old crowd". I beleive this to be a mistake on their part. It's the long time fans who spend the money for their products. Over the years I have purchased almost every book written in the Forgotten Realms and all the scource books for the FR campaign world and I would have done the same w/ 4E if the had not slaughtered it. Going for the quick buck by targetting the younger generation,( who have the attention span of a ferret on crack), is going to lead to a 5E. My hope is that it comes soon and they get it right this time.
PS: I pre-emptively apologize to younger people for my ferret ref. I am just an old guy ranting
I prefer to think of myself as having the attention span of a goldfish  (2-5 seconds). I'm still an avid FR fan, though! |
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Ardashir
Senior Scribe
USA
544 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 18:41:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There have been plenty of books that had detractors, but I don't think there has been a single one that was universally panned...
How about Paul Kidd's Council of Princes, a book the author himself once described to me as "My very own personal pisstake on the Realms"?
I like, even love, the work he does in his own settings, but man oh man does he hate 'generic fantasy'. And since he's loudly stated that opinion again and again, it seems to have pretty much destroyed his career with the major publishers. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 19:40:49
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| You mean Council of Blades? I dunno, I've not heard a whole lot about it, at all. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2009 : 20:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
quote:
Originally posted by sneakypetev
I agree with Mace.As a long time fan of both D&D and the FR novels and campaign setting, I feel as though the designers of both the RPG and the FR setting have ignored " the old crowd". I beleive this to be a mistake on their part. It's the long time fans who spend the money for their products. Over the years I have purchased almost every book written in the Forgotten Realms and all the scource books for the FR campaign world and I would have done the same w/ 4E if the had not slaughtered it. Going for the quick buck by targetting the younger generation,( who have the attention span of a ferret on crack), is going to lead to a 5E. My hope is that it comes soon and they get it right this time.
PS: I pre-emptively apologize to younger people for my ferret ref. I am just an old guy ranting
I prefer to think of myself as having the attention span of a goldfish (2-5 seconds). I'm still an avid FR fan, though!
Hey, 2-5 seconds or goldfish, rather, is better than a ferret on crack 
Nonetheless, I think wotzee has made a grave mistake, and they're gonna feel it... as I have divorced myself from wotzee game-wise (I have all the stuff I'll ever need for (A)D&D and FR) I really don't give a frak what happens to them in the future...RPG-wise, and novel-wise after I've completed a couple of trilogies still missing their final chapters |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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RedneckBadgerLord
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 20:15:54
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Would anyone like to help create a workaround of the mess 4e has made? I'm in the process of writing a pdf that does just that, and I'd like some extra input. PM me if you'd like to help, much obliged.
I should have Ver 1.0 finished by this weekend, barring disaster. |
Redwall. Drizzt. Kentucky. Enough said.
I was weaned on 2E Baldur's Gate. Learned 3.5E, and can't stand 4E WoF. (Though I try not to mess up canon too badly). |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 20:54:55
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| RBL, I like that you're doing a workaround, but be VERY careful about putting together a PDF. If you intend to distribute it, you will be opening yourself up for all kinds of legal issues since there is no Fansite Policy and the Realms is WotC's IP. Us posting ideas and such on the threads here don't break any laws, but if you try to publish a document (even for free), you could get into some trouble. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 22:19:59
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quote:
Originally posted by RedneckBadgerLord
Would anyone like to help create a workaround of the mess 4e has made? I'm in the process of writing a pdf that does just that, and I'd like some extra input. PM me if you'd like to help, much obliged.
I should have Ver 1.0 finished by this weekend, barring disaster.
Why work around it at all? In my experience even if you play weekly it might take a LOOOONG time to play through a year Realms-time, and even if you reach the Year of Blue Fire, it's your world, so most of the things (if you dislike 'em) probably haven't happened in your Realms anyroad...so...why bother? The game I run is still in the middle of 1366 and will stay there for a while... especially since it is on hiatus til October and then the group still has to finish an altered GDQ version in which they've only killed their way through Hill and Frost giants so far... |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 22:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
RBL, I like that you're doing a workaround, but be VERY careful about putting together a PDF. If you intend to distribute it, you will be opening yourself up for all kinds of legal issues since there is no Fansite Policy and the Realms is WotC's IP. Us posting ideas and such on the threads here don't break any laws, but if you try to publish a document (even for free), you could get into some trouble.
And they've supposedly been working on that fansite policy for more than a year. I was originally convinced the delay was simply lawyer-based (as in, the lawyers were going over it with a microscope, a fine-toothed comb, and a Geiger counter), but I am now convinced it's deliberate. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2009 : 22:59:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
RBL, I like that you're doing a workaround, but be VERY careful about putting together a PDF. If you intend to distribute it, you will be opening yourself up for all kinds of legal issues since there is no Fansite Policy and the Realms is WotC's IP. Us posting ideas and such on the threads here don't break any laws, but if you try to publish a document (even for free), you could get into some trouble.
And they've supposedly been working on that fansite policy for more than a year. I was originally convinced the delay was simply lawyer-based (as in, the lawyers were going over it with a microscope, a fine-toothed comb, and a Geiger counter), but I am now convinced it's deliberate.
LOL, yea a site that produces material of higher quality than DDI, one that would actually cater to the fans' needs... for free... it might hold up that ugly, nasty, bad, honest... no, strike that... brutally honest mirror that those people appear to avoid...
I mean, hell, BRJ did it with GHotR before it was printed by wisbro |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 05:39:21
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Sigh... please come on the Paizo boards guys... please pick up a subscription to the Pathfinder Adventure Paths...  |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 06:17:32
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Couldn't agree more, Wooly- the fansite policy is being purposefully delayed because the folks at WotC know what edition most of the fan-generated content would be for (especially in the Realms).
Have you ever seen the South Park with the Underpants Gnomes? Because WotC sounds just like those guys: 'Step One: Ruin the most popular setting we have and drive dedicated customers away in droves! Step Two:... Step Three: Profit!' |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
Edited by - Knight of the Gate on 28 May 2009 06:40:53 |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 09:44:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
You mean Council of Blades? I dunno, I've not heard a whole lot about it, at all.
That's one of the novels I never finished. I seem to remember it being even worse than Once Around the Realms. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 16:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Sigh... please come on the Paizo boards guys... please pick up a subscription to the Pathfinder Adventure Paths...
I was a subscriber for more than a year, but atm I can't afford it anymore  |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 17:07:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Sigh... please come on the Paizo boards guys... please pick up a subscription to the Pathfinder Adventure Paths...
I was a subscriber for more than a year, but atm I can't afford it anymore
Ironically, this and my Xbox live account are the only things I *kept* in my budget. Netflix, Gamefly, everything else got tossed.
Here's a budget tip. I called up my cable company to 'cut back' on my internet speed to save some money on the monthly bill. The rep I talked to found out that if I signed up for the bundle they were offering, I could keep the internet speed and gain HBO/Cinemax. He saved me almost the same amount of money (I would have saved $38.97 by reducing the cable speed, the bundle saved me $38.96) and I still get blazing fast internets. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Knight of the Gate
Senior Scribe
USA
624 Posts |
Posted - 28 May 2009 : 18:33:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
Sigh... please come on the Paizo boards guys... please pick up a subscription to the Pathfinder Adventure Paths...
I was a subscriber for more than a year, but atm I can't afford it anymore
Ironically, this and my Xbox live account are the only things I *kept* in my budget. Netflix, Gamefly, everything else got tossed.
Here's a budget tip. I called up my cable company to 'cut back' on my internet speed to save some money on the monthly bill. The rep I talked to found out that if I signed up for the bundle they were offering, I could keep the internet speed and gain HBO/Cinemax. He saved me almost the same amount of money (I would have saved $38.97 by reducing the cable speed, the bundle saved me $38.96) and I still get blazing fast internets.
I'd LOVE to subscribe to Paizo, but the current budget doesn't allow for both that and my drive to lay hands on all the 2 and 3E books that I missed out on the first time around AND to feed my growing free-climbing addiction. (I've spent $200 on books in the last month alone... and couldn't think of a better way to spend my filthy lucre. As far as free-climbing goes, it is worse than crack- honestly... I went with some pals a few months ago as a lark, and now I go 3-4 times a week, and wish I could go more)
And I had an analagous experience with my internets: I called to downgrade my speed, and found out that I could actually UPgrade my speed, while saving $20 a month due to a promotion of which I was unaware. It pays to call those people every year or so, to see what they have to offer. |
How can life be so bountiful, providing such sublime rewards for mediocrity? -Umberto Ecco |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jul 2009 : 22:50:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
RBL, I like that you're doing a workaround, but be VERY careful about putting together a PDF. If you intend to distribute it, you will be opening yourself up for all kinds of legal issues since there is no Fansite Policy and the Realms is WotC's IP. Us posting ideas and such on the threads here don't break any laws, but if you try to publish a document (even for free), you could get into some trouble.
Is this why we haven't seen a Candlekeep Compendium X? How was Candlekeep able to produce them before? What's stopping them now?  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 00:09:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
RBL, I like that you're doing a workaround, but be VERY careful about putting together a PDF. If you intend to distribute it, you will be opening yourself up for all kinds of legal issues since there is no Fansite Policy and the Realms is WotC's IP. Us posting ideas and such on the threads here don't break any laws, but if you try to publish a document (even for free), you could get into some trouble.
Is this why we haven't seen a Candlekeep Compendium X? How was Candlekeep able to produce them before? What's stopping them now?
Previously, WotC basically ignored fansites. Now that they've announced an intention to pay attention to them, fansites have to obey whatever rules WotC decides to impose. Considering that WotC could, if desired, totally shut us down (as in, the entire website), it's better to wait and see what is and isn't allowed, before doing anything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jul 2009 : 01:19:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
RBL, I like that you're doing a workaround, but be VERY careful about putting together a PDF. If you intend to distribute it, you will be opening yourself up for all kinds of legal issues since there is no Fansite Policy and the Realms is WotC's IP. Us posting ideas and such on the threads here don't break any laws, but if you try to publish a document (even for free), you could get into some trouble.
Is this why we haven't seen a Candlekeep Compendium X? How was Candlekeep able to produce them before? What's stopping them now?
As Wooly said, it really wasn't a problem in the past. We demonstrated that the copyrights for WotC IP were all in place. But with their specific intent and focus on fansites now, it becomes somewhat more problematic to work with their IP here at Candlekeep. So a "wait and see" approach is probably the best option for the time being.
And considering the author/designer input we have here, I'm hoping WotC will realise that Candlekeep is an important part of the FR online community, and continue to support us as such.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2009 : 17:12:09
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Hmmm, I see. Kind of a double-edged sword. Nice to see they pay attention, but I don't think they're the "listening" type and more of a "do it our way or else" type.
I find it strange, though. There're fansites for all sorts of things and I don't think I've ever heard of a fansite being demanded to shut down unless they were actually using, verbatim, material copyrighted by the owners.
I mean, is it against copyright to post something like "The Netheril Empire fell in the year -339 DR"? I thought specific game material was copyrighted, stuff like the stats to Elminster published in the FRCS or the feats in the Player's Guide, etc. I've seen personal FR stories posted on the web all over the place, wouldn't that be against copyright?
Just curious, I don't know how this stuff works. Sounds like it can be a tangled mess if WotC did decide to fight against Candlekeep. I do agree with the possibility they haven't set any rules for fansites because they may be trying to stop us from continuing the FR we want to stick with and not 4th Edition's. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2009 : 17:29:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
I find it strange, though. There're fansites for all sorts of things and I don't think I've ever heard of a fansite being demanded to shut down unless they were actually using, verbatim, material copyrighted by the owners.
I mean, is it against copyright to post something like "The Netheril Empire fell in the year -339 DR"? I thought specific game material was copyrighted, stuff like the stats to Elminster published in the FRCS or the feats in the Player's Guide, etc. I've seen personal FR stories posted on the web all over the place, wouldn't that be against copyright?
Just curious, I don't know how this stuff works. Sounds like it can be a tangled mess if WotC did decide to fight against Candlekeep. I do agree with the possibility they haven't set any rules for fansites because they may be trying to stop us from continuing the FR we want to stick with and not 4th Edition's.
Really, it's hard to say what's right and what's wrong for this site, now. And until the fansite policy is released by WotC, it's almost impossible for those of us working behind the scenes here at Candlekeep to accurately determine what will happen.
In the end, a "wait and see" approach is likely the best course of action.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2009 : 14:03:50
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| Unfortunatly, I think it's going to be a very long wait |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 02:37:21
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Wooly Rupert:
quote:
Previously, WotC basically ignored fansites. Now that they've announced an intention to pay attention to them, fansites have to obey whatever rules WotC decides to impose. Considering that WotC could, if desired, totally shut us down (as in, the entire website), it's better to wait and see what is and isn't allowed, before doing anything.
Doing something like that would cost them alot more fans/customers than the whole 4th edition mess.
Perhaps they should print another book: How to Finacially Damage your Business during a Recession. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
Edited by - Nilus Reynard on 14 Jul 2009 02:38:20 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 02:53:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard
Doing something like that would cost them alot more fans/customers than the whole 4th edition mess.
Um...
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My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 03:06:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard
Doing something like that would cost them alot more fans/customers than the whole 4th edition mess.
Granted, the changes made with 4e core D&D have had some negative impact on long-term D&D fans/customers. And, likely, forced some of them away from the game, in its entirety. But from what I've seen in my local corner of the world, just as many new and/or returning fans/customers are jumping into 4e D&D as those who have left it behind. And if that's happening here, I can expect that it's happening elsewhere around the world and throughout the vast D&D community as well.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Nilus Reynard
Learned Scribe
Canada
137 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 06:34:07
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Perhaps I should have stated that those long term gamers & FR fans that I know personally find 4th edition to be a mess, and are angered by all the changes that have been made. Several of them will never buy a WotC product again.
And if WotC does force people to shut down fan sites, it will cost them customers. |
Nilus Reynard
Doom Master of Beshaba, Hand of Despair.
P24 Hm CN
(2nd Edition AD&D) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 06:45:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard
Perhaps I should have stated that those long term gamers & FR fans that I know personally find 4th edition to be a mess, and are angered by all the changes that have been made. Several of them will never buy a WotC product again.
I've seen more anti-4E people than pro-4E people, but the latter do exist. My own stance on this is well-established.
quote:
Originally posted by Nilus Reynard
And if WotC does force people to shut down fan sites, it will cost them customers.
It wouldn't be unprecedented. Not that WotC has done that; so far as I know, the only sites they've shut down were in clear violation of their IP (though I know some debate that for at least one of the sites; I do not debate that). However, I know of individual authors that have shut down fan sites, despite the sites not doing anything to cost them money. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 07:09:48
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| WotC learned in the late 90s that fansites are a good thing to have, not something to be licensed out of existance. The question is, are any of those people still around (in RPG R&D) to remember the late 90s? |
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Their Realms are dead...
