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AlorinDawn
Learned Scribe
USA
313 Posts |
 Posted - 03 May 2008 : 03:19:11
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| Well said Mace, well said. I feel very much the same, but will pick up new titles from Ed, Eric, Steven, and maybe a few others because I very much respect and enjoy their work. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2008 : 19:54:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
. There have been plenty of books that had detractors, but I don't think there has been a single one that was universally panned.
Once Around the Realms?
(SHUDDER)
Damian
http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/novels/8550.htm
I agree with everything apart from the last sentence. |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 03 May 2008 19:59:36 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 06:43:33
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
. There have been plenty of books that had detractors, but I don't think there has been a single one that was universally panned.
Once Around the Realms?
(SHUDDER)
Damian
http://www.candlekeep.com/bookshelf/novels/8550.htm
I agree with everything apart from the last sentence.
I've not read that one in many, many years... But I don't recall disliking it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 09:13:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've not read that one in many, many years... But I don't recall disliking it.
A very, very, very poor rip off of Jules Verne with no character development or redeeming Realmslore, or consistentcy with any previous Lore.
I was truly apalled by how bad it was , each to their own of course
Cheers
Damian
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 10:12:28
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It's based on Around the World in Eighty Days. It doesn't use Realms geography except as material for a series of gags.
I do wonder though, if it would have been published if it wasn't the idea of the head of the books department. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 12:25:44
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| A little of subject, but I am curious. Did anyone actually like Council of Blades? I hope that's the name I quit after forty pages ten years ago. |
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LordArcana
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 13:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
Well said Mace Hammerhand
The Future Realms looks like Crap (4ed) and I can only hope that somebody finds it interesting.
Me and my group will not use 4 ed Crap….. Floating islands – Goods living on prime – Baaa…. it sounds like something form Dagonlance. I HATE IT!
This is just kinda funny to me that lastnight my good friend and current Saturday Night DM told us he is planning on selling his house and looking for another one. Part of the process of cleaning out old stuff he has 11 (yes count them 11!) copy paper boxes of basic, 1st ed, 2ed, and 3.0 D&D stuff he is trading in today to a used book store Crazy Igor's.
What makes it funny is i remember when we started playing 2nd ed together and he purposely bought a complete set of core books and kept them in the plastic mint because "Obviously we will be playing 2nd ed forever." Then when 3.0 came out we loved the new rules and he again bought a full set of core books and kept them in plastic because "The rule set rocks and we will be playing it forever!"...Believe it or not he was annoyed with 3.5 the crap timing for 3.5 but here we are still playing it years later.
To continue this little story he bought an extra case of "Underdark" mini's because it has a lot of great pieces. He kept his case tucked away and was going to sell it in later years. Wouldn't you know they release a NEW Underdark set a few years later with the old year stamped on the box. The newer set had 1-3 new paint steps added and were made to look just like the old set rendering his worthless except to only the most hard core collectors.
This also happened with the ICON ancient wyrms. He bought his set (DAMN you for not making a green wyrm) and an extra of each because you know they are going to go up in value years later....guess what. THey are so common they are sitting collecting dust on bokstore shelves and they are still selling for list price on ebay...
Anyway i had to laugh thinking of the connection. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2008 : 20:20:20
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The thing is, as you correctly pointed out LordArcana, that with the release of 4e virtually every book released prior to 4e is basically useless, not just the "crunch" but also the "fluff" for the Realms. 100 years of a timejump, most of what was known is nopt really the same and the other stuff is pointless... Had they not done the timejump, still keeping the stupid spellplaque, your information would still be valid, with twists, but still usable...for the most part, while the crap hits the magical fan. It changes over time, but with those changes tossed at us like a stale cheeseburger (those buns...YUCK!) even the historical value is basically useless.
Sidetreck: if sourcematerial is "fluff" can a creator of said sourcematerial be called a "fluffer"?  just wonderin' |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 01:28:08
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I don't much care for the term "fluff" when referring to the source material of a game setting. I prefer the term "lore" in general, when talking about the source material of fantasy settings, or the more specific "Realmslore" when referring to the material of FR.
When it comes to published information for sci-fi settings, or futuristic game universes, I usually just refer to it as "source material."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 01:48:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I don't much care for the term "fluff" when referring to the source material of a game setting. I prefer the term "lore" in general, when talking about the source material of fantasy settings, or the more specific "Realmslore" when referring to the material of FR.
When it comes to published information for sci-fi settings, or futuristic game universes, I usually just refer to it as "source material."
I hate the term fluff. I hate it, hate it, hate it. Lore and Realmslore worked for almost 20 years and only since 3e did that darn fluff term appear and it is so annoying!
But that's only my opinion. However, ya'll never catch me using that idiotic fluff term and my replies usually always contain the terms of lore or realmslore or mechanics. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:24:10
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Aye, I don't care for the term "crunch" either -- both "fluff" and "crunch" are part of the unfortunate legacy that RPGs have inherited from other [similar] games, like Magic: The Gathering.
When it comes to rules, I refer to "mechanics," or even just "rules." And I regularly use "lore" or "Realmslore" when referring to source material, in the hope that the younger fans of the Realms will begin to catch on and consider the nonsense "fluff" and "crunch" terms as inappropriate for a fantasy setting.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 02:38:36
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I first heard them in online discussion of the Warhammer battle games.
If everyone used these terms as straightforward synonyms of 'lore' and 'rules', they'd just be poor (since setting information isn't fluffy), needless, ugly, exlusionary jargon. But language doesn't work that way, and even users mean a confusing range of different, more or less derogatory/approbatory things by them (compare Chaosium's email newsletters: 'This R'lyeh report contains all sorts of crunchy Chaosium info').
How do people think they sound to non-'gamers' when they call creative work 'fluff'? I'm embarrassed to think of it, and I don't embarrass easily. |
Edited by - Faraer on 05 May 2008 07:43:55 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 03:14:46
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Indeed. And the internal setting material of the Realms itself, when used from an in-character perspective, is almost always referred to as "the lore" or "the Realmslore." And that is usually how I like to refer to it. It's a habit I picked up from Ed's own usage of the term in those early FR articles that he wrote for DRAGON so very long ago. 
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 03:19:41
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quote:
Originally posted by monknwildcat
Woooohoooo! Rand in the Realms! I wonder what she'd think of it...
Good question. Of course, we'll never know.
quote:
May I ask whom was the Fountainhead parallel for the despicable Phyrea?
That would be Dominique Francon.
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And does Phil's Roark sulk?
No. In fact, I found Ivar Devorast to be almost more of an automaton than a human being with fears and emotions.
quote:
At the end of our novel does the protagonist find his way to the valley of elitist, industrious philosophes where he survives the Spellplague?
Meh, not really. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 03:26:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
How do people think they sound to non-'gamers' when they call creative work 'fluff'? I'm embarrassed to think of it, and I don't embarrass easily.
Well, I can say I was pretty confused when I first heard the term "crunch"...and I wasn't even new to the FR or the world of D&D.
I don't like the word "fluff" because to me it implies that the lore of the setting is unimportant, trivial, just "icing on the cake." |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 05 May 2008 03:27:51 |
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Wyvernspur
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2008 : 06:16:26
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I first heard the term fluff from my G.U.R.P.S. friend who would always ask us to play with him despite the fact no one was interested. It seems he would buy the fluff books(anything non GURPS) to supplement his Gurps books that he called Crunch.
Lore is better and I admit I like lore and history better than rules any day. Flavor is the most important part for me.
Out with Fluff and Crunch. Their is only Lore and Rules |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 17:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wyvernspur
I first heard the term fluff from my G.U.R.P.S. friend who would always ask us to play with him despite the fact no one was interested. It seems he would buy the fluff books(anything non GURPS) to supplement his Gurps books that he called Crunch.
Lore is better and I admit I like lore and history better than rules any day. Flavor is the most important part for me.
Out with Fluff and Crunch. Their is only Lore and Rules
Strangely enough most of the GURPS content would probably be named "fluff" by WOTC.
Those two terms must be among the most irritating parts of the last ten years of D&D. |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 17:28:10
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| Just so we're clear, I created my name. There is a Character in WoT named Aravine, apperantly, or so I found by googleing Aravine. I have not read the book, and my Name is not a represntation of aknowlegement of this series. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 19:04:24
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Thanks for the details.
I'm now curious to see how Athans treated the novels, so I'll probably get 'em from the library.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2008 : 20:09:23
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So, since the the canal was indeed finished, as per the GHotR (which contradicts the novel ending - at least as far as intent goes), and they are having the entire Shaaran Plain collapse into the Underdark in 4e, thus pouring a great deal of the SoFS into the Glimmersea below, does that mean that there is an ENORMOUSLY POWERFUL current churning through the canal, making it unpassable once again? 
Oh... wait... it falls out in the Spellscarred Lands now, so the canal is probably floating in the air like some sort of deranged Roger Dean Wetdream.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 00:45:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Oh... wait... it falls out in the Spellscarred Lands now, so the canal is probably floating in the air like some sort of deranged Roger Dean Wetdream.
Probably. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 04:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Yeah, I don't have anything against Phil Athans personally, but he created the character I hate the most, the one I don't like even a little bit (Phyrea).
I don't mean the character I hate the most in the Realms. I mean the character I hate the most out of every single character I've EVER read about.
Don't hold back RF, tell us how you really feel about Phyrea. |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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Xysma
Master of Realmslore
USA
1089 Posts |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 05:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Sorry if I missed this topic elsewhere, but it fits here as well. Did anyone else notice that there will only be a Campaign Setting and Player's Guide for the various settings?
I read it last night. not sure if I like the one size fits all mindset they have worked up. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 15:03:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Don't hold back RF, tell us how you really feel about Phyrea.
Some juicy comments about her (by me) can be found by digging through some of the Book Club threads. I commented on all three Watercourse novels. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 15:04:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Sorry if I missed this topic elsewhere, but it fits here as well. Did anyone else notice that there will only be a Campaign Setting and Player's Guide for the various settings?
Yep, the regulars here are aware of that. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2008 : 16:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Xysma
Sorry if I missed this topic elsewhere, but it fits here as well. Did anyone else notice that there will only be a Campaign Setting and Player's Guide for the various settings?
Sad... I quite liked all the info I got from the RoF. Well, if they put all the info in all the books into those two, and sell it for $35 like the average book at my store, then I'll actually buy the material! |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2008 : 06:19:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
long live our Realms!
I will ignore the nonsense they've cooked up.
I will not stand for creative stupidity.
Mace, if you don't mind, I may use that for my next fanfic disclaimer. It's catchy! ^.^ |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2008 : 07:18:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Lady Fellshot
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
long live our Realms!
I will ignore the nonsense they've cooked up.
I will not stand for creative stupidity.
Mace, if you don't mind, I may use that for my next fanfic disclaimer. It's catchy! ^.^
Sure |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Their Realms are dead...
