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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Apr 2008 : 23:42:46
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I read some news on ENWorld that was just so damn ridiculous, I could only laugh. I've lost all other emotions, practically, at this point.
So, each year one campaign setting is coming and only 3 books per setting. Done. Sure, DDI updates will happen, but that's not really enough. So, once 2008 is over, kiss your Realms goodbye until 5th Edition.
That is just very sad. I really hope 4E tanks and WotC someday, somehow, sells it off to someone who really cares about D&D and the Realms.
I miss the days of TSR. Glossing over 2E Forgotten Realms products I sit and wonder,"Why can't it ever go back to this again? This was what made it so fascinating and rich..."
I'm going to sulk now. Not that I cared about 4E Realms, but to hear those who are interested in 4E Realms is going to get hosed big time.
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 03:35:55
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| The way I see it, Wizards can decide at any moment to contradict themselves and publish more FR books. They can do just 3 or 300 books, but I won't be interested unless they get it right. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 05:04:51
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| I just read this on Enworld myself. I can't believe I was right... I feel so sick right now. I speculated this on the Paizo forums after Wizard's presentation at Icon at the beginning of the mouth. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 16:22:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
So, each year one campaign setting is coming and only 3 books per setting. Done. Sure, DDI updates will happen, but that's not really enough. So, once 2008 is over, kiss your Realms goodbye until 5th Edition.
For me, the official Realms is already gone, thanks to the Spellplague nonsense. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 16:25:14
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| Yeah but it's still disguisting.. if 3 supplements is all they planned... why the hell did they have to trash the Realms. Certainly not for new adventures and to make things fresh like they claim. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 16:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Yeah but it's still disguisting.. if 3 supplements is all they planned... why the hell did they have to trash the Realms.
A part of me is thinking that too.
However, WotC has claimed that they are trying to attract new customers, AND not scare them off again with too much lore (I never thought lore was a bad thing, but apparently WotC thinks too much of it is). So, because of that rationale, the "3 sourcebook plan" makes sense to me. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 19:58:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Yeah but it's still disguisting.. if 3 supplements is all they planned... why the hell did they have to trash the Realms.
A part of me is thinking that too.
However, WotC has claimed that they are trying to attract new customers, AND not scare them off again with too much lore (I never thought lore was a bad thing, but apparently WotC thinks too much of it is). So, because of that rationale, the "3 sourcebook plan" makes sense to me.
It's rather refreshing to be on a forum where people aren't throwing parties over the trashing of Realms history. When the books are released, it's up to those gamers who talk about how much they hate the Realms to show their support of the decisions they so vocally approve of. I guess the question for this and 4E in general is, what kind of sales figures will meet the expectations of profit that WOTC has set? Almost as good as 3E main products, as good as, better than? |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 20:18:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
That is just very sad. I really hope 4E tanks and WotC someday, somehow, sells it off to someone who really cares about D&D and the Realms.
I miss the days of TSR. Glossing over 2E Forgotten Realms products I sit and wonder,"Why can't it ever go back to this again? This was what made it so fascinating and rich..."
I miss TSR too......... |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 20:56:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyria
It's rather refreshing to be on a forum where people aren't throwing parties over the trashing of Realms history.
And it's nice to have you here. Do stick around. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 24 Apr 2008 20:56:43 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 21:06:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
However, WotC has claimed that they are trying to attract new customers, AND not scare them off again with too much lore (I never thought lore was a bad thing, but apparently WotC thinks too much of it is). So, because of that rationale, the "3 sourcebook plan" makes sense to me.
BUT isn't that lore what separates Forgotten Realms from Eberron, from Dragonlance, etc. If they plan to do 1 setting a year with 3 books, why change them at all.. why not convert them and just say "this is how it always is."
From what I've seen the level spell system really hasn't changed the game. The 9th level spells of the past are still the top tier spells. So if a setting has magic restrictions, the number changes to 30 instead of 9.
*shakes head*
I just think the change was made for new authors and new editors that don't know the setting and don't want to learn the setting but expect to get paid. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 21:15:41
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From the other side there is and positive things in this ... I will have to buy only 3 books on 2008 for Forgotten realms..
The year 2009 if it is an Eberron year i will not have to buy anything...
I' m so indifferent about everything except Forgotten realms ... |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
Edited by - BARDOBARBAROS on 24 Apr 2008 21:18:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 21:45:24
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| And you know, they must be hoping for a lot of income from the DDI if they're cutting back to three setting sproducts a year. <Tarkin>"I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work." </Tarkin> |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 22:27:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And you know, they must be hoping for a lot of income from the DDI if they're cutting back to three setting sproducts a year. <Tarkin>"I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work." </Tarkin>
My thinking on this line of thought is this: MMO
They are so sure that they are going to pull the MMO crowd that they are only planning a "few expansions" per year...sort of the way Everquest charges for their expansions.
They will have their monthly subscription fees, just like MMOs, and then the supplemental income afforded them by the publication of "expansion packs"...
Yeah...I'm angry now too...not so angry that I'm losing my interest in what they are doing; but enough...
I can understand their reasoning...but I truly love books...and I'll miss what has been for me decades of actually HOLDING the thing that has my interest...
instead of reading it on this cold computer monitor. 
True, they are cutting their costs by doing it this way...but I also think they are going to miss out a bit on folks that simply don't have interest in using computers to play D&D...I know I have kicked and screamed at times...even the excitement I have for my soon to start PBEM game isn't NEARLY as exciting to me as sitting down at my long table, and HOLDING the miniature of my character or NPCs before placing them on the map and playing a game.
On the other hand...I do see the advantages of being able to "play with old college buddies" like I used to...it's just sad to see that what used to be the game that brought people together and actually GAVE them the chance to be socially interactive is now going the way of MMOs where so often I find myself placing someone on "ignore" or what have you simply because they can't bring their mind to the point where they are polite and reserved enough to be KIND to people.
Where I come from people are polite because they know that to intentionally make someone angry with you is an invitation to a black eye!  Give someone lip and you get your lip busted...that is the key to social graces (yeah...I'm sort of old fashioned that way...when my son mouthed off to another kid at school and got a fat lip because the other kid didn't take his crap, well...there is a lesson there for him to learn!).
I know I'm rambling...but I'm just getting to the point where D&D isn't feeling at all like D&D anymore...so I find that I'm looking around for what I used to enjoy so greatly and finding only a barren cyber landscape...
Man I'm getting old...and I'm only 36!!! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 22:45:48
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WotC *clears throat* regarding RPGs
In light of recent 4events I am very said to say that you have lost a customer.
Not only do the rules feel less than the D&D I grew to love, but also do I despise the way you want to pretend that you can sell this off as a MMORPG. If your designers spend as much time on WoW as I have spent on WoW and EQ combined and still say it is great gaming... and retain their jobs... kudos. D&D is for friends to play around a table/blanket/whatever.
If you wanna make a true online version of D&D, I suggest this: Create a massive world (much like the Realms before you blew them to smithereens!). Make events non-repeatable...unless it's dungeons where the Chosen of Mystra planted new magic items. (Oh, wait, can't do that either since you f***ed that up to!) Have about 200 DMs on standby so that they can DM people who want to play. Let everything happen on one server. Make quests non-repeatable. (oops, had that one already!) And create a game where people will have fun still when their characters raided the Magisters treasure. (no, wait, can't do that either since you f***ed that up as well.)
Note to self: no more red wine this late at night.
Good night |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 23:11:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
D&D is for friends to play around a table/blanket/whatever.
Me too I have the same opinion..I will not pay anything to these guys in WOTC for this DDInsider !!!! I will buy the FR books for collectible reasons only and nothing more from core books... I will continue buying novels... But a retail store here in Greece told me that they are planning to reduce and the FR novels also .. Has anyone heard something about it???
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BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
Edited by - BARDOBARBAROS on 24 Apr 2008 23:15:49 |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2008 : 23:34:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Note to self: no more red wine this late at night.
Good night
Lol...I once posted here while drunk...it didn't end well |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 04:48:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by SirUrza
Yeah but it's still disguisting.. if 3 supplements is all they planned... why the hell did they have to trash the Realms.
A part of me is thinking that too.
However, WotC has claimed that they are trying to attract new customers, AND not scare them off again with too much lore (I never thought lore was a bad thing, but apparently WotC thinks too much of it is). So, because of that rationale, the "3 sourcebook plan" makes sense to me.
I never thought it was a bad thing, either.
Actually, I never met anyone who thought too much lore was a bad thing for ANY campaign setting. If anything, it's a highly demanded thing. Everyone has their favorite setting, and the first words out of everyone I met about their favorite setting was,"I wish there was more of this---" or "I wish they did supplements for it again" and so on.
I have never met a person who didn't want more lore for their campaign setting. I mean, half the reason you purchase a campaign setting is because you want to try it out, and if you like it, you WANT it to expand, by not only your own creation but by the designers as well.
Dragonlance fans want more on Krynn, specifically Taladas.
Realms fans have been clamoring for untouched areas of Faerun or beyond.
Greyhawk fans want more coverage.
Planescape fans want the damn setting to come back.
Ravenloft fans want the setting back and in its proper element (boo to White Wolf's version).
Everyone wants their settings expanded. Who truly settles for 3 books, only one of which actually is the setting itself, without wanting more?
And, to get tasty morsels and doggy-treats for your campaign you have to spend $15/month for DDI to get that? That's total orc-****.
Mod Edit: Watch your language please. |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Apr 2008 04:51:18 |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 08:26:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
That's total orc-****.
Mod Edit: Watch your language please.
Yeah! Watch your language!
@ Mod: Why'd you cross out the wrong part? Total Orc-something is discriminating, for crying out loud!  |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
Edited by - Ergdusch on 25 Apr 2008 08:27:24 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 10:08:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
That's total orc-****.
Mod Edit: Watch your language please.
Yeah! Watch your language!
@ Mod: Why'd you cross out the wrong part? Total Orc-something is discriminating, for crying out loud!
Really? You know, my gremlins haven't been fed today. And orc, toasted lightly under the breath of a young fire mephit, just happens to be one of their favorite meals. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Apr 2008 10:11:06 |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 13:42:19
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| I’m sure they will change their policy on 3 gaming books a year if sales are good. “Hey look at the numbers on Scepter! Let’s make another and see if we can repeat the success!!” |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Eremite
Learned Scribe
Singapore
182 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 14:24:58
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Really, isn't this good news especially as it seems that most people on these boards do not appear to be in favour of the changes?
Once the products stop, don't certain rights return to Ed? Maybe Ed can then release his own preferred edition. MWP did a nice job of his Castlemourn setting; I'm sure they would be interested in FR if it became available. Better still, it could even be edition- (and maybe even game-) neutral like has happened with Freeport. With Freeport you buy a generic guide and then you pick up a specific guide for the game you prefer (a guide for Savage Worlds is about to be released). |
Best
E |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 14:45:45
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All WotC has to do is slap the FR logo on a web article, and if it's on the DDI, it'll still count as putting out product. And they've already shown a willingness to slap the FR logo on something obviously not intended for the Realms.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Cyria
Acolyte
20 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:15:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Eremite
Really, isn't this good news especially as it seems that most people on these boards do not appear to be in favour of the changes?
At the moment, I find the news rather frustrating. Future sourcebooks would no doubt have featured major changes that altered (or confirmed the speculated demise of) aspects, areas or NPCs of the Realms that I've liked. But I did expect there to be sourcebooks. Hearing that that the already revealed vast changes took place for 3 books + DDI and that post-Spellplague FR will not get the kind of thorough, helpful exploration that I personally enjoy when it comes to settings... well, I'm not entirely happy about that either. 3 + DDI wouldn't make me happy even if FR had gotten the treatment Eberron appears to have received (4E rules with only minor setting changes). |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 16:21:54
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| Indeed, even if they publish web articles it is still concerned publishing something and they'll still probably put out novels. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 17:08:19
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quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
Me too I have the same opinion..I will not pay anything to these guys in WOTC for this DDInsider !!!! I will buy the FR books for collectible reasons only and nothing more from core books... I will continue buying novels... But a retail store here in Greece told me that they are planning to reduce and the FR novels also .. Has anyone heard something about it???
Why don't you wait and see if you can find them used, before "voting with your wallet?" At least go the the bookstore (preferably one who will let you read through a book like Borders) and make sure that it is something you want to buy before buying it. I plan to do that, and I have no intention of buying the book(s); but there is a chance, however small, that Ed will have been able to make it a place I will enjoy playing, even if it is vastly different than the place that I fell in love with. This is our chance to actually show WotC what we think of the 4e Realms in a way they will understand (book sales). If the books sales are low, then maybe they will realize quite how much they <insert desired negative expletive>-up, and at the very least realize that they should have listened to us, the fans, instead of the whiners on the WotC boards who hate the Realms just because it is not just like their favorite CS.
In summary, this is my solemn plea: Please only buy the 4e Realms products if you actually like what is there. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe
Greece
581 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 17:24:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Eremite
Once the products stop, don't certain rights return to Ed? Maybe Ed can then release his own preferred edition. MWP did a nice job of his Castlemourn setting; I'm sure they would be interested in FR if it became available.
In this case we must know what Ed is going to do with the Realms.. Is he willing to continue them under MWP or another company??Can he cancel the changes of Spellplague and 4th edition?? |
BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!
"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2) |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 17:36:17
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quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
In this case we must know what Ed is going to do with the Realms..
And there's no way we could determine the answer to such a "what-if". You could ask Ed about what he'd do, but I doubt he'd be able to give you an answer. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2008 : 17:38:03
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quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS
quote:
Originally posted by Eremite
Once the products stop, don't certain rights return to Ed? Maybe Ed can then release his own preferred edition. MWP did a nice job of his Castlemourn setting; I'm sure they would be interested in FR if it became available.
In this case we must know what Ed is going to do with the Realms.. Is he willing to continue them under MWP or another company??Can he cancel the changes of Spellplague and 4th edition??
It's a moot point. To the best of my knowledge, neither WotC nor TSR has ever gotten rid of a license or IP they held. They may have ceased publication of some of them, but I don't think they've ever let one go. And it is going to be very, very easy for them to continue to release material, especially with the DDI.
So speculation on what Ed can or would do is moot, since WotC would have to totally fold and not be bought by anyone else for the license to revert to him. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Caedwyr
Seeker
87 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 00:17:36
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
In summary, this is my solemn plea: Please only buy the 4e Realms products if you actually like what is there.
Or if you are willing to wait a short while, I'm sure you could pick up a second hand copy fairly easily. (Amazon marketplace, Abebooks, or similar). You get the book and WoTC doesn't get your money for the resale. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 02:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Caedwyr
quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
In summary, this is my solemn plea: Please only buy the 4e Realms products if you actually like what is there.
Or if you are willing to wait a short while, I'm sure you could pick up a second hand copy fairly easily. (Amazon marketplace, Abebooks, or similar). You get the book and WoTC doesn't get your money for the resale.
That's what I was thinking of doing. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2008 : 03:02:52
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| Sorry about the orc-($# part. I thought these boards had filters. My fault. |
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Say goodbye to the Realms until 5th Edition...
