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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Jun 2003 : 08:42:18
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I'm very glad you like it. I was worried that you or someone else would pull out the Holy Game Balance Card with something that I hadn't seen.
As for divine spells . . . it's hard. I mean, the only way I can think of to boost the pattern is to start them out at a higher level. That is, when they can cast a higher spell level, they start out with one extra spell per day, instead of just one. Maybe I'm just too fond of this pattern, but I think it's really good. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2003 : 10:24:08
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There's really not a whole lot you can do wrong with this spell list Bookwyrm. It is simply a matter of getting the number placing right and making sure it doesn't overbalance the PC too quickly.
Bookwyrm said -
quote:
I mean, the only way I can think of to boost the pattern is to start them out at a higher level. That is, when they can cast a higher spell level, they start out with one extra spell per day, instead of just one.
That was my first idea. But I have some others that I am currently tinkering with (in between several other hundred projects). I will try and get it finished this week.
May all your learning be free and unfettered
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2003 : 10:42:53
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This was my original working, but I don't really like it now, as it allows too much access too quickly. My revised listing improves this format.
L- - 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9
01 - 5 - 3
02 - 5 - 4 - 1
03 - 6 - 5 - 2
04 - 6 - 6 - 3 - 1
05 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 2
06 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 1
07 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 2
08 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 1
09 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 2
10 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 1
11 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 2
12 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 1
13 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 2 - 1
14 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 3 - 2
15 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 4 - 3 - 1
16 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 2
17 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5 - 3
18 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 4
19 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 5
20 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6 - 6
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2003 : 11:24:31
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| Exactly how is that supposed to be better? It still has the 6-spell cap on it. And like you said, too much too quick, as far as spell access goes. Notice on my wizard table that the extended pattern holds true the whole way, whereas the original made sure that the 20th-level wizard had at four spells per day in every level before the bonus for intelligence. On mine, that's only three for eighth- and ninth-level spells. I figured that would be more than compansated by four more cantrips, two more first, second, and third spells, and one more fourth and fifth spells. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2003 : 11:25:31
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| And if you have a different way to put it, why not put that up? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2003 : 11:32:26
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If you've played in Dragonlance, you could probably understand why the listing was this way. This spell list was originally a conversion made for the Dragonlance setting for the Mystic (Cleric) core class during the Fifth Age. I only made a few alterations, to change it, but as I said, it was my first original working idea. My new system is much better. And as for the new system, I am working on it now, to get it ready for posting...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2003 : 12:15:59
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| Okay, just wondering. And no, I've never played the Dragonlance setting. I've never even read the books, except for four. (And they really didn't apeal to me. And in case you say I need a better cross-section, one of them was an anthology.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2003 : 20:31:00
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In the FR campaign setting they make a suggestion of extending spells AND spell levels for hihg level mages. Can't remember what page it is on, and no time to look as Kim is coming over soon. But it is there. And I used it. Only way my archmage gained his quickened Delayed blast fireball.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jun 2003 : 23:53:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Mournblade
Only way my archmage gained his quickened Delayed blast fireball.
Exactly. That's why I was so surprised. After all, I read something in the FRCS (the Innate Spell feat) where it said that spell slots above ninth would be detailed in the Epic Level Handbook. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2003 : 01:22:08
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Here's a question for you. I don't really have much of a problem with bonus languages in this way, but don't you think that separate ranks should be bought for reading and writing in a "purchased" language? I mean, the bonus languages are due to a high intelligence. Even during the game, if bonus ability points are given to Intelligence, the bonus language that comes out of an increase is due to the character being smart enough to pick it up. But if the character is training in that language, as shown by having to "buy" it with skill points, shouldn't reading and writing come differently?
Today, that isn't the case, but our societies all encourage high literacy rates. In a world like the Forgotten Realms, though, that wouldn't really be the case. Some classes would learn it more easily than others, like with the wizard, but others wouldn't. Am I making sense? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2003 : 10:17:33
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Bookwyrm, I have been tinkering on and off with this idea of mine since the discussion we had a short while back, about extra divine spell slots. What I am about to show here is something that finally came into a coherent picture in my mind during class this morning.
It is still in draft form and may change when I have had more time to research alternatives and make changes on it -
Ultimate Power [Special]
Your PC has an extraordinary talent with, and understanding of, the forces of divine magic
Prerequisites: The PC must have the ability to cast the spells of the required spell level, Cleric, INT 15+
Benefit: Your PC is granted an extra spell slot as shown in the chart below
Special: Your PC can take this feat multiple times. The number of extra spell slots your PC is granted is determined purely by the number of times this feat is taken.
Ultimate Power
---------Extra Spell Slots
---------0/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9
# Taken
1--------1/1/0/0/0/0/0/0/0/0
2--------1/0/1/0/0/0/0/0/0/0
3--------1/1/0/1/0/0/0/0/0/0
4--------1/0/1/0/1/0/0/0/0/0
5--------1/1/0/1/0/1/0/0/0/0
6--------1/0/1/0/1/0/1/0/0/0
7--------1/1/0/1/0/1/0/1/0/0
8--------1/0/1/0/1/0/1/0/1/0
9--------1/1/0/1/0/1/0/1/0/1
Thoughts?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2003 : 10:41:34
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Erm . . . .
Well, I suppose it looks all right. Problem is, there's an Extra Slot feat already . . . although, this one's mechanics are different. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2003 : 11:15:09
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| Yes, I suppose so . . . there're so many different feats, of course, but that one's a simple one. Of course, I did just recently read through that section, so perhaps it was just in my mind better. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2003 : 11:21:12
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'Course I'm right. When I'm right, I'm right. And me, I'm always right. Even when I'm paraphrasing a spoof movie that has nothing to do with FR whatsoever . . . .  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2003 : 11:48:16
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Who made that man a scribe, anyway?  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
Edited by - Bookwyrm on 09 Jul 2003 00:46:04 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2003 : 20:39:54
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WOW!!! I can actually tell which one is TALKING!!!!!
I guess Bookwyrm won the debate....
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
Edited by - Mournblade on 03 Jul 2003 20:40:40 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2003 : 22:24:58
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Gasp! I no longer see myself without a mirror!
Good face, I think it suits you. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2003 : 09:54:13
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Mournblade said -
quote:
I guess Bookwyrm won the debate....
It really wasn't a question of anyone winning anything, I just simply became tired of the fact that several visitors to Candlekeep were getting both Bookwyrm and I mixed up. Besides, this avatar seems more 'sagely' anyway...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jul 2003 : 10:08:22
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| Well, for you . . . like I said, it suits you. Me, I like my hood and white beard. (Not that I'd have the latter in Real Life -- too itchy.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2003 : 00:42:47
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Here's something I was thinking of. What if you wanted to play a character that had less than eight points in an ability score, but you were using a point-buy system? In an idle moment a bit ago, I thought of another personality -- someone kind, but who nonetheless rubs people the wrong way. Not his/her fault, it's just something (s)he was born with. This would be represented, of course, by a score of Cha 3.
How would that work, though? Could you subtract points and give them to another ability? Perhaps consider points 3-8 to be worth a half point? That way, when the excess is added to another ability, it doesn't over balance the system -- you only get two points out of that. Of course then a character, if at three points, would have a half-point left over. Maybe consider 3-7 to be half-points, and 8 to be one point.
This is just an idle question coming out of an idle moment, but I'm interested in what the DMs would have to say about it. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
Edited by - Bookwyrm on 09 Jul 2003 00:46:56 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 05:30:40
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Let me brush this old scroll off to ask about another issue.
A specialist wizard gains +1 spell per day per spell level, and a +2 Spellcraft bonus on spells from his/her favored school. The specialist then loses one or more schools, including scrolls and wands, and takes a -4 penalty on checks to identify prohibited spells. In D&D 3.5e, this changes to two prohibited schools (unless the specialist is a Diviner), with the same bonus.
Put in this way, what idiot would want this option?
What I'd like to know is if anyone has any thoughts on just how balanced this is, and if there are any homebrewed fixes for it. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 05:38:40
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| My solution: Go back to the 3.0 specialization rules. They made a lot more sense, and didn't make a diviner completely useless. I haven't found that any changes need to be made. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 05:44:30
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| Really? You think that an extra spell per spell level is worth losing one or more entire schools? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 06:00:14
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| Well, okay...It's not perfect, but it works. Most every specialist(and for that matter, general mage) that I've played has had one or two schools that they get no use out of. Occasionally, I may want claws of darkness or such for an abjurer, but I feel it's worth losing invisibility and such for an extra dispel magic and banishment per day. I may end up redoing this at some point(as sometime soon, I'll have to expand it to take into account Aslarian energy mages), but for generic D&D and FR campaigns, I feel it works well enough. However, one of the major things keeping me from changing it is the 3.0 incantatrix prestige class, which gets heavy use out of a forced specialization in Abjuration. As we know that this is being redesigned for inclusion in the Player's Guide to Faerun, and I highly suspect that it will lose the obligatory specialization in that printing, my thoughts may change in late March. I haven't touched either part yet because they do work together well, both see use, and both are balanced. If someone does a nice enough job to remove the connection, then I don't know. |
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New Rules and Rulings
Confound it!. I should have remembered that.
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