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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Jun 2003 : 07:06:12
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If I'm not mistaken, the official "conversion" rule for 1e monks to 2e was: retire the character or make him from Kara-Tur.
So, was it impossible to be a PC member of one of the martial monastic orders? Were they not monks? Were they all from Kara-Tur?
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2003 : 16:05:20
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There are pre-2001 references to Faerūnian monks, mainly in Damara and Tethyr, although the Old Grey Box lists suggested gods for monks (including -- relevance to other thread! Loviatar) and puts some in the Flaming Fist mercenary company. Forgotten Realms Adventures gives the options you say plus plus to continue using the character but 'No new monks will be created in the Realms'. Later, Faiths & Avatars introduced a new priestly fighting-monk class and mentioned monk orders affiliated with some of the gods.
But a lot of the monkish orders mentioned in the 2001 FRCS were made up to suit the monk's new status as a core class. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 05:03:01
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Personally, I'm not a fan of the Monk Schools in FRCS. I felt that monks should just be dealt with from a religious sense. In other words, you are a monk of Tempus, Ilmater. Tyr, Loviatar, etc. Some of the monk schools of FRCS have that religious focus, but others don't. I don't feel that they 'fit' in the published Realms ..
If you are interested in the Lands of Intrigue, here are some Ilmatari monk orders based on saints listed by Steven Schend:
Abbeys & Cloisters of Ilmater
The ten cloisters of Ilmater were established over the past 400 years, and
three of them remarkably came into being during the Alemandrian Interregnum.
They are placed throughout the country such that a pilgrim/devotee can, with
some effort, travel from one to another within two days' ride. They are all
manors of sorts, with protective walls around at least a chapel, chapter
house, stables, and gardens. Some are more opulent with libraries, monks'
quarters separate from the chapter house, or even garrisons for an
affiliated knightly order. Each has a specific goal for its faithful, in
accord with the saint after which the house is named. While commoners see no
distinction among them other than their services and ages, some are more
prestigious within church hierarchies of Tethyr simply by their famous
founders or associated saints. There are more notes and details about these
monasteries, including the various duties of each house, within the various
county sections below.
The cloisters of Ilmater are noted under their full names, though
everyone refers to them simply by their saint's names (i.e. "St. Alaric's,
St. Cabram's, etc.). They are listed by age (first number), and each has a
second number, which ranks its prestige among the clergy:
1/2) Convent of St. Rhynda: Symbol=Night violet (deep bluish-purple
flower). Dedicated in the Year of Bright Nights (985 DR).
2/7) Missionary of St. Cabram: Symbol=Sunset daisy (deep orange).
Dedicated in the Year of the Stone Rose (1017 DR).
3/4) Monastery of St. Natan: Symbol=Calim lily (local pale blue floating
lily). Dedicated in the Year of the Keening Gale (1050 DR).
4/5) Seminary of St. Ostus: Symbol=Morning glory. Dedicated in the Year
of Shambles (1088 DR).
5/1) Convent of St. Teresa: Symbol=Bloodlily (scarlet lily). Dedicated in
the Year of Azure Blood (1126 DR).
6/3) Abbey of St. Alaric: Symbol=Briar rose. Dedicated in the Year of the
Howling Moon (1130 DR).
7/8) Hospice of St. Corin: Symbol=Thistle. Dedicated in the Year of the
Yellow Rose (1242 DR).
8/10) St. Ramedar's Cloister: Symbol=Rock violet (pale, miniature ground
flower). Dedicated in the Year of the Dragon (1352 DR).
9/9) Monastery of St. Domin: Symbol=Mountain daisy (tiny, ochre-yellow
ground-crawling flowers). Dedicated in the Year of Maidens (1361 DR).
10/6) Priory of St. Silvyr: Symbol=Tuarlye (blue flower with green
highlights indigenous only to the Forest of Tethir). Dedicated in the Year
of the Staff (1366 DR).
I believe that more can be found in the Empires of the Shining Sea accessory also.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 16:02:50
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If martial monks were dependent on a religious order, and gods like Ilmater had monks, what, other than their D&D bonuses, would differentiate a martial monk of Ilmater from a paladin of Ilmater? Would we say monks are for those not disciplined enough to be paladins? Not "good" enough? Not trained in enough weapons?
The denizens of "Ten Cloisters of Ilmater" sound more like Christian monks, not the idealized fantasy "kung fu" monks of (A)D&D. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 21:31:37
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I have always accepted D&D as an amalgamation of cultures. I treat the monks of Faerun like western versions of Kung fu monks. Though I have to agree with Bran. The Knights Templar that I wrote on previously were a MONASTIC order. They were for all purposes MONKS. They were a martial order. And like Bran said, what is there to distinguish them between monks or Paladins. Well nothing but history. They WERE monks in History, and certainly were NOT paladins, though make no mistake the paladin is based off of them. I love getting to the historical roots of these things...
The leader of the Templars was also called a Grandmaster. They had a monastic style of ranking themselves as well.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Zimeros
Learned Scribe
Brazil
121 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 21:53:58
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| I prefer the monks of Kara-Tur, because they aren't religious menbers, this is for clerics. But I don't was know if the monk's orders in Thethyr, or Calimsham, the Empires of sand... ...In this Empires the culture are Arabic, not asiatic... |
"Gods protect children and drunks" |
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Edain Shadowstar
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 22:34:45
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Well, I have always maintained the big problems with monks was always their name. For many people from Western Judeo-Christian cultures the image of a monk does not typically constitute a martial arts master. The Knight Templar and Hospilitar not withstanding, the typical western monk was a robed figure who spends his time singing hyms and scribing books. Now, while this style of monk (*cough* Candlekeep *cough*) does exist in the FR world, the term is more commonly used to refer to the eastern style monks. The idea that monks must affiliated with a particular religion is another Judeo-Christian idea. Since many eastern cultures (China largely) had no gods per se, monastic orders could not be dedicated to a god, but rather dedicated themselves to a certain ethos or pursuit.
Oh and one more thing, yes there were paladins in history, although they were not exactly holy warriors. The term paladin refers to the twelve peers of Charlemagne's court, or more simply his most trusted vassals (more or less, as the term 'peer' denotes being on the same level as one another, so they must have been regarding on a similar level as Charlemagne himself). The term was later used to refer to highly virtuous knights and defenders of chivalry or a strong supporter or defender of a cause. |
Edain Shadowstar
Archwizard of Rel Astra and Waterdeep
"Mmm
pie
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- Gaius Solarian, Captain General |
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branmakmuffin
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 22:50:23
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Mournblade:
Yes, (A)D&D, or rather in this the Forgotten Realms, is an idealized amalgamation of cultures, which doesn't bother me.
I'm not trying to imply that this was your assertion, but: that some monks are merely wannabe paladins sounds really bogus. |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1287 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 01:01:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Edain Shadowstar
Oh and one more thing, yes there were paladins in history, although they were not exactly holy warriors. The term paladin refers to the twelve peers of Charlemagne's court, or more simply his most trusted vassals (more or less, as the term 'peer' denotes being on the same level as one another, so they must have been regarding on a similar level as Charlemagne himself). The term was later used to refer to highly virtuous knights and defenders of chivalry or a strong supporter or defender of a cause.[/blue]
That was covered down in Sages of the realms under the paladin thread. Peers of a medieval realm were really any noble. There was just different levels of peerage. A knight was a peer and a baron was a peer, but they were different levels of peer.
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A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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Zimeros
Learned Scribe
Brazil
121 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 17:05:07
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| Yes, was exist ocidental monks in medieval Europe, but this monks don't fight with the oriental monks. This monks only priest for his faith. But in imaginary worlds, can exist monasterys in every country if dungeon master speak this. |
"Gods protect children and drunks" |
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Martial monastic orders in 2e FR
