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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2008 :  21:00:15  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hi folks,

Mace Hammerhand emailed me about whether or not there would be a Prestige of the Realms II. I told him that I had started one, but other projects and then life got in the way of finishing it, some of the PrCs are nearly done, others are started, and still others are just ideas. So I thought I'd see if folks wanted to help me finish it as group project.

I'm open to ideas as to how to go about it, but I thought I'd get an idea of folks' level of interest and then maybe serve as developer/editor if folks are open to that.

In any case, here's the started and nearly finished PrCs that I got so far.....

* beast totem shaman (fit to different beast totem worshipers of Malar, Ulutiu, Uthgar, and animal cultists)
* drowbasher (dwarven barbarian PrC)
* dukars of seros (begun before they became substitution levels, which I didn't care for, in Champions of Valor)
* finders of Finder
* glorious artisans of the True World (pluma and hishna shapers of Maztica)
* knighted magus (paladin/sorcerer)
* kuldjargh (redo of my original battlerager, which underwent heavy editing, in Races of Faerun, nearly finished)
* blooded vindicator (dwarf cleric/barbarian update from 2E)
* norothor of Duerra (psychic warrior/cleric)
* platinum vassal of Bahamut (an attempt to bring together Bahamut PrCs in Draconomicon and Book of Exalted Deeds with a more solid FR footing)
* sentinel (self explantory and done)
* shadoweir (ranger/druid of Mielikki)
and maybe
* sumotori (done, but bought and never published by Dragon years ago, so I'm not sure if I can use it)

and then there are another 20 or so ideas that are little more than names.

So anyone interested in developing some of the ideas? If so, great, it gives us all something to do during the downtime before new products start coming out and keep some 3.5E ideas out there.

Hope everyone is well,

Tom Costa

KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2008 :  21:10:37  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Any chance of an updated Spellsinger as well? That PrC really seems kind of pointless as it stands in Races of Faerun and I had talked with Eytan in a thread here at the keep about how to make it a bit more in line with something useful and in keeping with the original ideas behind it.

Another thing that I was thinking was perhaps one or two more War Wizard PrCs, but with these PrCs having to do with the more traditional role of the War Wizards. For example, a War Wizard Inquisitor, or some such, that has various mindreading abilities as a class feature, and a War Wizard Infiltrator that is resistant to magical attempts to ferret out true identities, allegiances, and thoughts.

Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 27 Jan 2008 21:40:17
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Hawkins
Great Reader

USA
2131 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2008 :  22:02:31  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have tossed around doing a different Battlerager class that was closer to Pwent in the RAS novels. Maybe I will. What was Prestige of the Realms 1? And where can I find it?

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2008 :  22:11:44  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Knight Errant, I'm happy to take ideas. Are you offering to help out?

Hawkins, Prestige of the Realms I is found on Eric Boyd's website. I think the kuldjargh is a much better reflection of Pwent than my original battlerager or the edited version that saw print.

Mod edit: I tweaked the link, because there was a period on the end that was being read as part of the URL, and thus didn't work.

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Jan 2008 05:40:28
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2008 :  22:25:04  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I might be willing to throw some ideas into the mix, especially since I got some good ideas on the Spellsinger from Eytan. The ideas on the War Mages is just kind of sketchy, nothing much more than that I thought the organization could probably use a few more specialized roles that better reflected their operations in the novels.

I might have some ideas on the glorious artisans based on some ideas I had as well, and perhaps the Shadoweirs, a little.

But I would be honored to help out on this, especially given the respect I have for your work.


Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 27 Jan 2008 22:28:31
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High

Australia
31772 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2008 :  23:34:07  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tom, I'd really love to help out. Unfortunately, my understanding of the 3e rules set is nothing I can really boast about. So assisting in the "mechanical" side of your new PDF simply isn't an option for me. If, however, we're talking about Realmslore help, or other such setting-information, then I'm more than ready to assist in whatever way that I can.

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Matthus
Senior Scribe

Germany
393 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2008 :  23:36:09  Show Profile Send Matthus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How would you like to get the ideas? I would be interested in the dwarven PrCs – and I have some ideas more. Do you want a PM or do you prefer the discussion here?

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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader

Germany
2296 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  00:18:46  Show Profile  Visit Mace Hammerhand's Homepage Send Mace Hammerhand a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I GM 3.5, but my rules-knowledge is sketchy in the entire "design your own PrC" issue, as for lore-stuff, Sage seems to have that covered. What I would like to offer is my skills as an editor. Not that I can correct all of the grammar and punctuation (being no native speaker and all that), but what I can do, very well actually, is to get to the bottom of things and do the logic, storywise.

If that is of any help, count me in.

Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware!
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore

USA
1283 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  02:33:54  Show Profile Send SirUrza a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spellsinger, Bladesinger, and War Wizard totally need to be redone. It amazes me how much better Red Wizards are compared to War Wizards.

"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy.
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Daniel
Acolyte

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  03:20:09  Show Profile  Visit Daniel's Homepage Send Daniel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Howdy,

Just thought I would point out that the link for the prestige of the Realms I is no good as far as I can tell, and I would be interested in seeing that if there is a working link available.

Thank

The killing was the best part. It was the dying I couldn't take.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  04:30:46  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Glorious artisans of the True World (pluma and hishna shapers of Maztica)"? Oh, ye gods, yes!!!! Maztica is just about to be "discovered" in my campaign, and it may be the new and unusual magic more than the gold which attracts the PCs there.

I'll take this opportunity to ask you a question, if I may, Tom: there was a spell in Maztica (the dark kind -- hishna?) which a character of mine would very much like to learn when he hears about it. It's the one which records moving images, which would make a wonderful compliment to any collection of Darsson's sound spells. Is it necessary for him to advance to the appropriate class levels in the True World in order to learn the spell, or could he learn it in Faerun from a Maztican teacher? He has rogue levels already, and has some artistic talent, so I intend to say, "no" for my own campaign, just to give him an excuse to go to Maztica, but I'd like your official ruling on it for OPG (other people's games).

If you can share this info at this time, please do!




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Edited by - Jamallo Kreen on 28 Jan 2008 04:43:30
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  05:06:39  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd like to suggest two prestige classes which were kits from The Complete Book of Necromancers, which many people (myself included) regard as one of the finest D&D books ever written (and set in the Reams, even without an FR logo): the "Anatomist" and the "Philosopher." Almost every prestige class for necromancers which has been produced since 3E began portrays necromancers as abominably evil, not as if there might be True Neutral or even Good necromancers out there.

It's very difficult to smoothly adapt those two kits to 3E, but as prestige classes they could get all of the goodies which they used to have in an updated framework. I'll even make a suggestion: to reflect the gradual mind-altering which Philosophers may undergo, may I suggest a 01% per level cumulative chance to automatically acquire the feat "Wild talent" from Lords of Madness -- which gives the DM the option of allowing the Philosopher to become a psionic character or not?



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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36803 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  05:41:07  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel

Howdy,

Just thought I would point out that the link for the prestige of the Realms I is no good as far as I can tell, and I would be interested in seeing that if there is a working link available.

Thank



Try it now. There was a period that was being read as part of the URL, and it was hosing the link.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36803 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  05:41:48  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm weak on rules. I can edit, though.

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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore

Germany
1720 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2008 :  09:37:40  Show Profile Send Ergdusch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Matthus

How would you like to get the ideas? I would be interested in the dwarven PrCs – and I have some ideas more. Do you want a PM or do you prefer the discussion here?




You should check out 'Alaundos Library', if you have not done so already. There you'll find a PrC I created for dwarven clerics: 'High Old One'. (The Blade PrC from the AD&D Complete Book of Bards floats around there somewhere as well, BTW.)

Great to see that a 2nd Prestige of the Realms is in progress. I'd love to help out as well but unforunatelly the time I have to spare at the moment is rather limited.

Ergdusch

"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht."

Edited by - Ergdusch on 28 Jan 2008 09:43:40
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2008 :  22:31:31  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks everybody and to those willing to help as editors or with some of the fluff. Alas so far, it appears as though there is less than critical mass of contributors for the project to move forward in full (especially as I to am busy -- wedding planning is well, time consuming --thus the request for assistance). So if you know anyone who wants to help, please send them this way.

In the meantime, let me take another look to see if which are worth posting to this forum as they stand for comment and editing.

Jamallo, regarding your question about the pluma spell. I don't have a strong opinion. I originally felt hishna and pluma should be divine magic, but 2E clearly labeled it as arcane with the Spell Compendiums and as a pseudo bard kit. If it were up to me, I would make them spells for "divine bards" from UA. However, if you keep it as arcane magic, there is no reason, why someone couldn't try to research the spell if they heard of it, though you would certainly be within your DM rights to make it more challenging without a trip to learn from the masters of Maztica.

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2008 :  22:49:01  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tom, if I get some of these ideas in semi-workable form, do you want me to them to you, or do you have another idea on how to proceed, or should I just cool my jets for now until more important matters are no long quite as daunting (I just got married two years ago myself, congrats!)
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1796 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2008 :  23:09:28  Show Profile Send Purple Dragon Knight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm solid on 3.5 rules, and the differences between 3.0 and 3.5... seeing that many 3.0 FR classes need to be redone, I'm willing to help (partly for selfish reasons, as I want all these FR 3.0 classes workable in my campaign! )

My main interest lie in updating 3.0 classes to 3.5, THEN perhsps helping with any new ones/homebrews (like Tom, I'm pretty busy, with my firstborn on the way, so this would be a slow process, but good things happen to those who wait...)

OK, so plan of attack: (assuming all FRCS classes have been three-point-fived)

-Faiths and Pantheons,
-Magic of Faerun
-Silver Marches
-Lords of Darkness
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2008 :  23:12:57  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some of those, honestly, won't need more than a tweak to the prerequisites and they should be fine. Some of the skills and feats need to be shifted to their 3.5 versions, but most of the abilities work fine. Including the awesome Cormyr PrCs from Dragon that Tom Costa did . . .
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
618 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2008 :  12:41:45  Show Profile  Visit Uzzy's Homepage Send Uzzy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm. How would a Scarlet Mummer PRC go down? I'd love to do some work on that.
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore

USA
1537 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2008 :  00:18:34  Show Profile  Visit Jamallo Kreen's Homepage Send Jamallo Kreen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

Thanks everybody and to those willing to help as editors or with some of the fluff. Alas so far, it appears as though there is less than critical mass of contributors for the project to move forward in full (especially as I to am busy -- wedding planning is well, time consuming --thus the request for assistance). So if you know anyone who wants to help, please send them this way.

In the meantime, let me take another look to see if which are worth posting to this forum as they stand for comment and editing.

Jamallo, regarding your question about the pluma spell. I don't have a strong opinion. I originally felt hishna and pluma should be divine magic, but 2E clearly labeled it as arcane with the Spell Compendiums and as a pseudo bard kit. If it were up to me, I would make them spells for "divine bards" from UA. However, if you keep it as arcane magic, there is no reason, why someone couldn't try to research the spell if they heard of it, though you would certainly be within your DM rights to make it more challenging without a trip to learn from the masters of Maztica.





Thanks for the input, Tom.

I have never really tried to create a prestige class, but if you think that the Anatomist and Philosopher necromancer kits are worthwhile developing, I'll take a stab at sketching them out, if they aren't protected by obscure old TSR rights.



I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.


Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.

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Shilo99
Seeker

63 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2008 :  13:35:11  Show Profile  Visit Shilo99's Homepage Send Shilo99 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tom (& all),

I'm happy to help out, too, especially if it counts towards the 'critical mass' that Tom needs to get the project moving forward in full.

I’ve an inkling about PrCs & mechanics and would be happy to contribute, and/or input to/comment on narrative.

…as a veteran of a 2007 wedding, I can even provide Tom with some advice there!

Given Tom’s status as a Realms aficionado I think this is a great little project for members of the list. Back in the ‘90s he & I discussed/edited at length a range of 2e Gods projects he was working on, and I found the interaction both educational and great fun, so I hope this gets off the ground.
S
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2008 :  14:55:58  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So here is the first completed PrC, the Sentinal.... Comments welcome.....

Sentinel
Jeddan was always right. He always saw it coming whatever it was. Years ago, he caught a Shadow Thief assassin before it killed our captain during the Reclamation War. And just the other day, he saw the Sythellian orc scouting our perimeter even in the dim light of our torches. We trust him with our lives, each and every one of us.

Sentinels are the most vigilant of warriors, often assigned to guard points of passage, whether the doors to a master’s chamber, gates to a castle, or even a magical portal to another plane. At other times, they may patrol castle ramparts or take watch over resting companions. They provide safety and create the sanctuary under which those in their charge benefit.
A sentinel’s primary purpose is to detect approaching invaders or assailants, and to then sound an alarm while holding off the enemy until help arrives. To accomplish this, sentinels have trained themselves to be exceptionally alert to both open and surprise attacks. The sentinel has an ever-improving ability to notice the unusual or imperceptible and take action against a threat before it actually comes to pass. Moreover, thanks to an inner sense sharpened by years of practice, a veteran sentinel has learned to notice the sharp intake of breath, the position of a weapon, and the stance of a would-be opponent. By picking up on such signals, a sentinel is able to predict how, when, and where a weapon will strike – enabling him to avoid many attacks. Nevertheless, sentinels are used almost exclusively for defensive purposes, and must be able to react quickly, parry blows, and move swiftly to block opponents from charging past them. Most carry signal horns to alert their compatriots to attack and summon their aid.
Watchfulness and defense are only parts of the sentinel’s duties, however. As importantly, the sentinel must serve his employer or liege with honesty and devotion. The sentinel is expected fight to the death if no other avenue is available (for instance, if he knows no reinforcements are forthcoming, and he is the last obstacle between an enemy and his master). If the master is displeased, the sentinel will be passed on to another employer or simply turned loose to fend for himself.
Perhaps the most famous sentinels in all the Realms are those from Silverymoon and Tethyr. Some speculate it’s the blessings of Helm, others, simply the caution and steadfastness of their citizenry. Whichever, both lands boast many a heroic story about their most able sentinels. And in the Underdark below the Earthspur Mountains, the dwarves of the Earthroot region are as well-known for their wary eyes and stout hearts.

Becoming a Sentinel
Most sentinels come from the ranks of existing guard forces that have committed themselves more than most to their charges. Often recognized by their peers and lords, these defenders are well-respected and trusted. Most sentinels begin by walking castle ramparts and joining military patrols. The pinnacle of their advancement for most sentinels, however, is personal defense of their lord.
While almost any class can meet the requirements of a sentinel, most sentinels come from the ranks of experts, fighters, urban rangers, rogues, warriors, and multiclass combinations of the same. Wisdom is a key ability for many of the sentinel’s skills and class features, while a high Dexterity further enhances many of their defensive abilities.
Entry Requirements: To qualify to become a sentinel, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any lawful.
Base Attack Bonus: +3.
Base Fortitude Save: +1.
Base Will Save: +1.
Skills: Listen 4 ranks, Spot 4 ranks.
Feats: Alertness (or Blooded [see page 35 of the Player’s Guide to the Forgotten Realms), Armor Proficiency (light), Combat Expertise, Endurance, Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword, falchion, great sword, longsword, scimitar, or short sword), Weapon Proficiency (glaive, guisarme, halberd, longspear, ranseur, spear, or trident).
Special: Must swear an oath of loyalty and service to whomever or whatever employs the sentinel, whether it is a merchant, king, city, state, or the like.

Table SEN-1: The Sentinel Hit Die: D10
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Code of conduct, master sentry +1
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Hold for reinforcements
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Low-light vision, master sentry +2
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Uncanny dodge
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Blind-Fight, master sentry +3
6th +6 +5 +2 +2 Hold the line
7th +7 +5 +2 +2 Gate keeper, master sentry +4

Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis), Use Rope (Dex).

Class Features
Sentinels are the constant watchers and protectors, always alert and wary of attack. Their class features focus on increasing their situational awareness to improve their own defenses and assisting their fellow sentinels. All the following are class features of the sentinel prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sentinels are generally outfitted in armor and armed with sword and polearm. A sentinel is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
Code of Conduct (Ex): Sentinels must swear an oath of loyalty and service to guard their charge, whether it is a country, city, person, or property. There are penalties if a sentinel fails to adhere to his oath of loyalty, accepts a bribe, does not defend his charge, or otherwise fails in his duties. Depending on the severity of the infraction, these punishments may range from suspension or docking of wages to banishment or execution. In many cases, sentinels are required to submit to a geas/quest, lesser geas, mark of justice, or similar type of spell. (And in some cases, depending on the campaign, the gods themselves may notice dereliction or betrayal of duty and respond with punishments of their own.)
Master Sentry (Ex): A sentinel must always be of sound mind, alert, and ready to react to danger. A sentinel gains a +1 insight bonus to all Initiative checks, Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot checks, and Will saves against mind-affecting effects. This bonus increases to +2 at 3rd level, +3 at 5th level, and +4 at 7th level.
Hold for Reinforcements (Ex): Sentinels are masters of delaying combat, whether it is fighting on the defensive or working in small units, until reinforcements arrive. At 2nd level, sentinels can grant an additional +1 bonus to a friend when using the aid another special attack (see page 154 of the Player’s Handbook), receive an additional +1 dodge bonus to the their own AC when fighting defensively (see page 140 of the Player’s Handbook), or receive an additional +2 dodge bonus to the their own AC when executing the total defense standard action (see page 142 of the Player’s Handbook).
Low-light Vision (Ex): After having stood watch in the darkness time after time, sentinels have developed keen night vision. At 3rd level, sentinels gain the low-light vision special quality, allowing them to see twice as far as a normal human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination or dim light. Sentinels that already have a low-light vision add one to the distance multiple of their low-light vision; for example, to three times as far as a normal human for elves or fives times as far for a true dragon.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A sentinel must always be ready for an assassin’s blade. Starting at 4th level, a sentinel can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.
If a sentinel already has uncanny dodge from a different class (such as a rogue, for example) he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see page 50 of the Player’s Handbook) instead.
Blind-Fight (Ex): Sentinels have an almost preternatural ability to “see” through an enemy’s concealment, magical or otherwise. They are alert to disturbances in the air flow, slight noises, or slight emanations of heat or cold that signal the presence of something unseen. At 5th level, sentinels gain Blind-Fight as a bonus feat.
Hold the Line (Ex): Sentinels are able to move swiftly to block opponents from charging past them. Starting at 6th level, sentinels may make an attack of opportunity against a charging opponent who enters an area they threaten. Their attack of opportunity happens immediately before the charge attack is resolved.
Gate Keeper (Ex): Little escapes the attention of a master sentinel, who even notices the faint disturbances caused by magical transit or the opening of a magical conduit. At 7th level, a sentinel automatically detects (1) the activation of any portal, earth node, crossroad, backroad, or similar magical gate, (2) the opening of any planar breach, (3) the use of any spell or effect from the teleportation subschool, and (4) the use of any spell or effect that crosses over or through the planes (such as astral projection, ethereal jaunt, shadow walk, or summon monster) within 60 feet of him. The sentinel may immediately attempt a DC 25 Spot check to pinpoint the exact location of the portal, breach, or effect, as long as he has line of sight to the location.
For example, a sentinel would detect a sorcerer teleporting to a location 40 feet away, and with a DC 25 Spot check could even pinpoint the precise location where the sorcerer appeared (though he would lose this precision as soon as the sorcerer moved in a different fashion such as running or flying).
Ex-Sentinels: Sentinels who doubt their oaths and duties often choose to find other work or retire, though few will ever betray their former lords. A sentinel who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a sentinel but retains all sentinel abilities.

Adaptation
Sentinels are an iconic prestige class that fit a stereotypical and common niche in many campaigns. Sentinels from specific races, cultures, countries, cities, or organizations may have altered entry requirements or altered class features, especially those involving weapon and armor requirements and proficiencies. Some may develop a different ability than the gatekeeper class feature, such as blindsense 30 ft. for example.

Credit
Author Thomas M. Costa.

Design Notes
Sentinels were inspired in part by the 1E NPC sentinel by Andy Pierce in Dragon Magazine #89 (September 1984). Silverymoon and Tethyr are noted for their tendency toward law, popular patronage of Helm, and access to the Blooded feat, the dwarves of Earthroot for much the same.
A ranger 3 or rogue 1/fighter 3 could qualify for the sentinel, but most other classes and class combinations need to be 5th or 6th level to meet the sentinel’s requirements. Some of the requirements might seem unnecessary but cover possible single class or multiclass possibilities and hopefully provide a bit more flavor to the class. I wanted to maximize the classes accessibility to experts, fighters, rogues, warriors, allowing for all of them to reach the class by 5th or 6th level, but wasn’t willing to replace the Endurance requirement, which allowed for rangers to qualify a bit earlier.
The master sentry ability might seem powerful in that it applies bonuses to five things, but is far less so when you consider the ability maxes out at +4. Hold the line is modeled on the feat of the same name in the Complete Warrior. While I came up with the gate keeper ability, I subsequently noticed the somewhat similar breach sense of a planar rogue in the Planar Handbook and tweaked my language to more closely match that of breach sense.

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2008 :  14:57:28  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And here's as far as I got with the Glorious Artisans of Maztica.....

Glorious Artisan of the True World
XXXX Color quotation.

XXXX Introduction: general description, what and why. Plumaweavers and Hishnashapers.
XXXX Organization, advancement, and resources as applicable.
XXXX Function and place in society, NPC reactions, where.
XXXX In the Realms

Becoming a Glorious Artisan
XXXX Qualifications, how and when, and advancement
XXXX Who, races and classes, key abilities.
Entry Requirements: To qualify to become a glorious artisan, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: XXXX.
Alignment: XXXX.
Patron Deity: XXXX.
Base Attack Bonus: +XXXX.
Base XXXX Save: +XXXX
Skills: XXXX.
Feats: XXXX.
Domains: XXXX.
Spells: XXXX.
Special: XXXX.

Table GA-1: The Glorious Artisan Hit Die: D8
Class
Level Base Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save
Special
Spellcasting
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Combat style I, create talisman, Maztican magic
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Animal form 1/day +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Combat style II, Maztican magic (+1 CL)
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Animal form 2/day +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Combat style III, Maztican magic (+1 DC)
6th +4 +4 +2 +4 Animal form 3/day (Large) +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Combat style IV, Maztican magic (+2 CL)
8th +6 +6 +2 +6 Animal form 4/day +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
9th +6 +6 +3 +6 Combat style V, Maztican magic (+2 DC)
10th +7 +7 +3 +7 Animal form 5/day +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level): XXXX (Abl), XXXX (Abl), XXXX (Abl), XXXX (Abl). As mix of bard and ranger….

Class Features
Introduction XXXX. All the following are class features of the glorious artisan prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Glorious artisans gain no new proficiency with weapons, armor, or shields.
XXXX Description of preferred weapons and armor.
Spellcasting: At each glorious artisan level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a glorious artisan, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster, level, and spells known.
Code of Conduct (Ex): XXXX.
Combat Style (Ex): XXXX Color description. Game mechanics. Plumaweavers gain Martial Weapon Proficiency (shortbow) and Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, Many Shot, Improved Precise Shot. Hishnashapers gain poison use and sneak attack +1d6 at each even level (up to +5d6 at 10th level).
Create Talisman (Ex): See Midgard dwarf, but gain Craft Arms (not armor) and Craft Wondrous Items as bonus feats and can use even if lack spells, CL = HD.
Maztican Magic (Ex): Add pluma and hishna spells to spell list, then cast them at +1 caster level, then +1 DC, then +2 CL, then +2 DC.
Animal Form (Su): As eagle knight/jaguar knight, giant eagle at 6th or dire jaguar (??)
Ex-XXXX: XXXX.

Power of Maztica
Azul (I) Evil, Law, Storm, Water… Watery Death (PGtF)
Eha (D) Air, Chaos, XXXX… giving baby’s breath
Kiltzi (I) Chaos, Family (PGtF), Good, Healing… Pleasure (BoED)
Kukul (G) N/A
Maztica (G) druids with replacement levels?
Nula (D) Animal, Chaos, XXXX… hunting, exuberance/joy
Plutoq (L) Dwarf (PGtF), Earth, Endurance (BoED), Law
Qotal (G) Air, Celestial (BoED), Good, Law, Protection
Tezca (I) Chaos, Evil, Fire, Sun… XXXX
Watil (L) Good, Plants, XXXX, XXXX… farming, herbalism
Zaltec (G) Bestial (BoVD), Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Scalykind (PGtF)

Talismans of Pluma and Hishna

Adaptation
XXXX Fitting fluff into other ideas and/or campaigns, altering crunch as appropriate

Credit
Author Thomas M. Costa, based on original material by XXXX. The glorious originally appeared as the plumaweaver and hishnashaper in XXXX (YEAR).

Design Notes
XXXX Inspiration and place in the Realms.
XXXX Easiest way to meet entry requirements.
XXXX Where crunch language is adapted from or what it can be compared to and explanations as necessary.
XXXX. REWORK as a divine bard class type with instantaneous spells and different abilities, skills, etc.

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2008 :  14:58:31  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And here's one more to chomp on....

Finder of Finder
XXXX Color quotation.

XXXX Introduction: general description, what and why.
XXXX Organization, advancement, and resources as applicable.
XXXX Function and place in society, NPC reactions, where.
XXXX In the Realms

Becoming a Finder of Finder
XXXX Qualifications, how and when, and advancement
XXXX Who, races and classes, key abilities. Most are halflings, humans, or saurials.
Entry Requirements: To qualify to become a finder of Finder, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Chaotic good or chaotic neutral.
Patron Deity: Finder Wyvernspur.
Skills: Diplomacy 3 ranks, Craft (any artistic craft) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 3 ranks, Perform 6 ranks.
Feats: Holy Player, Skill Focus (Craft or Perform).
Domains: Charm.
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells.
Special: XXXX.

Table FND-1: The Finder of Finder Hit Die: D6
Class
Level Base Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save
Special
Spellcasting
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Charismatic caster, comprehend saurials, magic of the bards +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level): Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int).

Class Features
Introduction XXXX. All the following are class features of the finder of Finder prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Finders learn to wield the favored weapon of their god, gaining Martial Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) as bonus feats. They gain no other weapon, armor, or shield proficiencies. Finders do not like to sacrifice their grace and dexterity by wearing medium and heavy armors, most prefer the chain shirt.
Spellcasting: At each finder of Finder level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a finder, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster, level, and spells known.
Charismatic Caster (Ex): Finder encourages his faithful to reach deep within themselves for their power. Finders may use their Wisdom or Charisma, whichever is higher, to determine what level of divine spells they can prepare and cast, the DCs of their divine spells, and their bonus divine spells per day.
Comprehend Saurials (Su): Finder believes it crucial that his followers be able to communicate. Non-saurial finders have an innate understanding of the high-frequency dialect of draconic, emotive odors, gestures, and runic writing saurials use to communicate. Saurial finders have a similar understanding of the Common tongue. In neither case does the finder gain the ability to speak in the foreign tongue, just the ability to understand it and write it.
Magic of the bards (Ex): Finder Wyvernspur is enamored with the arcane magic of bards. Finders add spells from the bard spell list as divine spells to their cleric spell list at one level higher, thus a 1st-level bard spell is treated as a 2nd-level cleric spell by finders. In addition, finders count as bards when it comes to using magical items and devices.
Ex-Finders: Like clerics, a finder who grossly violates the dogma of Finder Wyvernspur loses all spells and class features and cannot gains levels as a finder of Finder until he atones (see the atonement spell description on pages 201-202 of the Player’s Handbook).

Adaptation
XXXX Fitting fluff into other ideas and/or campaigns, altering crunch as appropriate

New Feat
Holy Player [General]
Whether it is telling tales around a communal campfire, performing in a sacred chapel, or just embracing your inner nature, your faith has helped you become a consummate performer, capable of adjusting your performance to your audience.
Prerequisites: Divine spellcaster, Charm, Elf, Family, or Moon domain, Charisma 13+.
Benefits: Perform and Sense Motive are always class skills for you.

Credit
Author Thomas M. Costa, based on original material by Eric L. Boyd. The finder originally appeared in Demihuman Deities (1997).

Design Notes
This class is inspired by the specialty priests of Finder Wyvernspur in the 2E Demihuman Deities.
XXXX Easiest way to meet entry requirements.
Note if you were to compare this to gaining additional level of cleric you lose hit points, the stacking on your BAB, Fort save, and Ref save, and a level of turn undead, but gain a higher Will save (which given the character’s likely high Wisdom is somewhat negligible), better skill points (which is nice as a one-shot), charismatic caster (which could easily be a wash or perhaps slightly better), the likely bastard sword proficiency (which is nice), comprehend saurials (which is more flavor than of much practical use), and magic of the bards (which increases the cleric’s versatility and is the crux of the PrC). All in all, it seems pretty balanced. I thought about not giving them the bonus level of spellcasting, but in that case would want to give them higher HD, a good Ref save, a few more skill options, bardic knowledge of some sort (maybe that uses their Perform ranks as a bonus instead level), and/or allow them to stack their turn undead level.
XXXX Where crunch language is adapted from or what it can be compared to and explanations as necessary.

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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2008 :  15:40:38  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

And here's as far as I got with the Glorious Artisans of Maztica.....





One of the first things that occurred to me is that if practitioner of these arts choose Hishna, the alignment requirement will be different than one that chooses Pluma. Given that Hishna and Pluma isn't quite the same as being devoted priests of a given deity, I'd make the Hishna requirement any non-good, and the Pluma requirement any non-evil, meaning that you can have a lot of people "in the middle."

I'm also thinking that having a Pluma and Hishna spell list separate, and trying to convert a good number of the spells into "standard" spells that already exist in 3.5 might not be a bad idea, otherwise the scope of this gets really out of whack. Its easier to introduce with fewer "new" mechanical elements. Some spells will need to be unique, but some can just be adapted.

I'm also thinking one way to keep the feel of the pluma and hishna items is to place a stricture on these guys that says they have to provide their own spells to create a magic item. So if a spell is on the hishna list, a pluma weaver can't find someone to cast a spell for him and still craft his own item.

As a side item this could provide a sidebar of "Hishna" and "Pluma" as clerical domains.

I would almost be willing to argue that, while its usually less optimal, as presented in the old Maztica boxed set, I don't think I would make these guys "+1 caster level" guys, but people that gain a spell progression with the PrC, but that's my "bridge" to the original source. These guys were presented as gaining access to Pluma and Hishna spells due to their craft, not by being existing priests that were craftsmen.

As a side question, in the old material, the highest level spell a hishna shaper or pluma weaver would have is 5th level, so my gut feeling is this shakes out around 6th level for 3.5.

Hm . . . the more I look at this and how this shakes out, the more tempting it is to work this out as a full progression class instead of a PrC using the bard as a rough guide (which is probably why you mentioned the notes on the divine bard at the end of the article).


Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 02 Feb 2008 16:21:17
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe

Canada
592 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2008 :  19:51:02  Show Profile Send Foxhelm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

And here's one more to chomp on....

Finder of Finder
XXXX Color quotation.

XXXX Introduction: general description, what and why.
XXXX Organization, advancement, and resources as applicable.
XXXX Function and place in society, NPC reactions, where.
XXXX In the Realms

Becoming a Finder of Finder
XXXX Qualifications, how and when, and advancement
XXXX Who, races and classes, key abilities. Most are halflings, humans, or saurials.
Entry Requirements: To qualify to become a finder of Finder, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Chaotic good or chaotic neutral.
Patron Deity: Finder Wyvernspur.
Skills: Diplomacy 3 ranks, Craft (any artistic craft) 6 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 3 ranks, Perform 6 ranks.
Feats: Holy Player, Skill Focus (Craft or Perform).
Domains: Charm.
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells.
Special: XXXX.

Table FND-1: The Finder of Finder Hit Die: D6
Class
Level Base Attack
Bonus Fort
Save Ref
Save Will
Save
Special
Spellcasting
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Charismatic caster, comprehend saurials, magic of the bards +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level): Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int).

Class Features
Introduction XXXX. All the following are class features of the finder of Finder prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Finders learn to wield the favored weapon of their god, gaining Martial Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) as bonus feats. They gain no other weapon, armor, or shield proficiencies. Finders do not like to sacrifice their grace and dexterity by wearing medium and heavy armors, most prefer the chain shirt.
Spellcasting: At each finder of Finder level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a divine spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If you had more than one divine spellcasting class before becoming a finder, you must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day, caster, level, and spells known.
Charismatic Caster (Ex): Finder encourages his faithful to reach deep within themselves for their power. Finders may use their Wisdom or Charisma, whichever is higher, to determine what level of divine spells they can prepare and cast, the DCs of their divine spells, and their bonus divine spells per day.
Comprehend Saurials (Su): Finder believes it crucial that his followers be able to communicate. Non-saurial finders have an innate understanding of the high-frequency dialect of draconic, emotive odors, gestures, and runic writing saurials use to communicate. Saurial finders have a similar understanding of the Common tongue. In neither case does the finder gain the ability to speak in the foreign tongue, just the ability to understand it and write it.
Magic of the bards (Ex): Finder Wyvernspur is enamored with the arcane magic of bards. Finders add spells from the bard spell list as divine spells to their cleric spell list at one level higher, thus a 1st-level bard spell is treated as a 2nd-level cleric spell by finders. In addition, finders count as bards when it comes to using magical items and devices.
Ex-Finders: Like clerics, a finder who grossly violates the dogma of Finder Wyvernspur loses all spells and class features and cannot gains levels as a finder of Finder until he atones (see the atonement spell description on pages 201-202 of the Player’s Handbook).

Adaptation
XXXX Fitting fluff into other ideas and/or campaigns, altering crunch as appropriate

New Feat
Holy Player [General]
Whether it is telling tales around a communal campfire, performing in a sacred chapel, or just embracing your inner nature, your faith has helped you become a consummate performer, capable of adjusting your performance to your audience.
Prerequisites: Divine spellcaster, Charm, Elf, Family, or Moon domain, Charisma 13+.
Benefits: Perform and Sense Motive are always class skills for you.

Credit
Author Thomas M. Costa, based on original material by Eric L. Boyd. The finder originally appeared in Demihuman Deities (1997).

Design Notes
This class is inspired by the specialty priests of Finder Wyvernspur in the 2E Demihuman Deities.
XXXX Easiest way to meet entry requirements.
Note if you were to compare this to gaining additional level of cleric you lose hit points, the stacking on your BAB, Fort save, and Ref save, and a level of turn undead, but gain a higher Will save (which given the character’s likely high Wisdom is somewhat negligible), better skill points (which is nice as a one-shot), charismatic caster (which could easily be a wash or perhaps slightly better), the likely bastard sword proficiency (which is nice), comprehend saurials (which is more flavor than of much practical use), and magic of the bards (which increases the cleric’s versatility and is the crux of the PrC). All in all, it seems pretty balanced. I thought about not giving them the bonus level of spellcasting, but in that case would want to give them higher HD, a good Ref save, a few more skill options, bardic knowledge of some sort (maybe that uses their Perform ranks as a bonus instead level), and/or allow them to stack their turn undead level.
XXXX Where crunch language is adapted from or what it can be compared to and explanations as necessary.





Most clerical Prestage Classes from Faith and Pantheons are ten levels long. I am curious if you might do something like that.

Another thought is the idea of a Find the Path ability which could mimic the abilities of the Finder's Stone, the most famous artifact in relation to Finder. Something at ninth or tenth level, yet expanded in some way. The Find the Path ability of the stone allows to be able to find any person or objects as long as it's on the same plane as you. I can see this ability being a once per day (or even once per tenday) ability.

I will think on this and see if I can add more.

Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems!
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2008 :  05:35:45  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

So here is the first completed PrC, the Sentinal.... Comments welcome.....



I had a player that ran a cleric of Helm in my Mistledale campaign, and I'm betting he would have taken levels of this instead of dipping into fighter had he seen it back then. I noticed also back when I was trying to make a knight/bodyguard kind of character I had a hard time finding any PrCs that appealed to me, so I would have been interested in this for that character as well.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader

USA
5402 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2008 :  05:41:35  Show Profile  Visit KnightErrantJR's Homepage Send KnightErrantJR a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
dukars of seros (begun before they became substitution levels, which I didn't care for, in Champions of Valor)

kuldjargh (redo of my original battlerager, which underwent heavy editing, in Races of Faerun, nearly finished)

knighted magus (paladin/sorcerer)



I have a question on these.

About the dukar, would this be a PrC to completely replace the substitution levels, or something that could work with them if both were taken? Either way would work, I'm just curious.

Similarly would the kuldjargh replace the battlerager PrC from Races of Faerun, or would it be different enough that both would be possible for a character to take (sort of like, "rank and file battlerager, elite battlerager")?

Also, is the knighted magus intended to be tied to a specific church, or is it just a general idea to merge the two classes?
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2008 :  22:09:34  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Knight Errant,

I agree with almost everything you said. I thought of using the hishna/pluma spell list from the jaguar/eagle knights in Dragon as a starting point and also creating a domain for each.

I really liked the idea of using the divine bard as the basis for the PrC, though I could see creating a new class, I don't know if that's necessary. A PrC just makes the true secrets of pluma and hishna something to be attained.

*************
One of the first things that occurred to me is that if practitioner of these arts choose Hishna, the alignment requirement will be different than one that chooses Pluma. Given that Hishna and Pluma isn't quite the same as being devoted priests of a given deity, I'd make the Hishna requirement any non-good, and the Pluma requirement any non-evil, meaning that you can have a lot of people "in the middle."

I'm also thinking that having a Pluma and Hishna spell list separate, and trying to convert a good number of the spells into "standard" spells that already exist in 3.5 might not be a bad idea, otherwise the scope of this gets really out of whack. Its easier to introduce with fewer "new" mechanical elements. Some spells will need to be unique, but some can just be adapted.

I'm also thinking one way to keep the feel of the pluma and hishna items is to place a stricture on these guys that says they have to provide their own spells to create a magic item. So if a spell is on the hishna list, a pluma weaver can't find someone to cast a spell for him and still craft his own item.

As a side item this could provide a sidebar of "Hishna" and "Pluma" as clerical domains.

I would almost be willing to argue that, while its usually less optimal, as presented in the old Maztica boxed set, I don't think I would make these guys "+1 caster level" guys, but people that gain a spell progression with the PrC, but that's my "bridge" to the original source. These guys were presented as gaining access to Pluma and Hishna spells due to their craft, not by being existing priests that were craftsmen.

As a side question, in the old material, the highest level spell a hishna shaper or pluma weaver would have is 5th level, so my gut feeling is this shakes out around 6th level for 3.5.

Hm . . . the more I look at this and how this shakes out, the more tempting it is to work this out as a full progression class instead of a PrC using the bard as a rough guide (which is probably why you mentioned the notes on the divine bard at the end of the article).
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
971 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2008 :  22:13:39  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Foxhelm,

I'm intrigued by your idea to expand the Finder and encourage you to develop those ideas.

My original thinking was to capture what we knew from the books and the earlier editions of the game. As I looked at it, it really only warranted 1 level of class, but as I think about it now perhaps some substitution levels (which hadn't really come out when I wrote that one level PrC) to the divine bard would be better.
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