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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 22:25:48
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The dukar was begun before the substition level was developed, so yes, my original concept was to the exclusion of the substitution levels, which I didn't care for how they captured the 2E dukar feel.
Honestly, I was really disappointed with the way the battlerager was edited for Races of Faerun. I felt that the edited version lost most of what I had tried to accomplish. Moreover, the way it's structured, I think it's actually not worth taking because mechanically the benefits are minimal and especially compared to the 3.5E barbarian, the loss of stacking your rage levels is significant, but so the cookie crumbles. The kuldjargh took that disappointment and a few more years of game design to create something that I think is more original than my original battlerager or the published one. It actually grew in part out of an effort to minmax a dwarven barbarian I was running in a Ptolus campaign. In the end, as I often try to do, I had to tone it down to make it fair, and I'm still not sure if I found that optimal balanced point, but I think I'm close. In any case, I think the kuldjargh captures characters like Pwent from the Drizzt books far better than the battlerager. All that is a long winded way of saying, I would (and have in my games) tossed the battlerager.
The knighted magus is a more generic class looking for some more solid campaign footing. As with the sentinel, it's sufficiently generic, but I would like to give it a little Realms flavor. It always struck me as odd that the two characters that there is no way to really make a sorcerer-paladin work, both of whom rely on Charisma, and it's a neat concept in my view. I could easily see them as a small fighting wing of Savras and the old Mystra, but how to mix and match the arcane of a spellcaster with the divine power of a warrior is trickier. I have a starting point, but it still missing something. Essentially it faces many of the same problems of all fighter-wizard multiclasses. The shadoweir poses some of the same problems in that it combines the ranger and druid.
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Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
[quote]
I have a question on these.
About the dukar, would this be a PrC to completely replace the substitution levels, or something that could work with them if both were taken? Either way would work, I'm just curious.
Similarly would the kuldjargh replace the battlerager PrC from Races of Faerun, or would it be different enough that both would be possible for a character to take (sort of like, "rank and file battlerager, elite battlerager")?
Also, is the knighted magus intended to be tied to a specific church, or is it just a general idea to merge the two classes?
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 00:49:34
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Battlerager wasn't the only PrC that didn't quite live up to its promise in Races of Faerun. I've read through spellsinger so many times trying to figure out why I would try to take the class. But I think I alluded to that on the first page of the thread.
As far as the kuldjargh goes, for some reason I'm picturing a flurry of blows type ability, but I don't know what direction you wanted to go with this one. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 03:00:41
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Since we began discussing it, here's the kuldjargh. Comments welcome.
Kuldjargh
The kuldjargh, literally “axe idiots,” are legendary dwarven berserkers—such as the Gutbusters of Mithral Hall and Clan Guzzlefoam of the Earthfast Mountains—justly famed for their battle prowess, as well as their bellicose hymns to the dwarven gods of battle, notably Haela Brightaxe (although her faithful, who most often wield a dwarven claymore, are often known as aglandjargh or “sword idiots”) and Clangeddin Silverbeard.
Kuldjargh are descriptively identical to battleragersRoF except as indicated here, and better replace them mechanically.
Becoming an Kuldjargh
Dwarves with levels of barbarian have the easiest time becoming an kuldjargh, though many multiclass as fighters, rangers, or clerics. Strength and Constitution are key abilities for the kuldjargh.
Entry Requirements: To qualify to become a kuldjargh, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: dwarf.
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Base Attack Bonus: +6.
Base Fortitude Bonus: +5.
Skills: Intimidate 9 ranks, Perform (sing) 2 ranks.
Feats: Cleave, Intimidating RageCW, Exotic or Martial Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword, battleaxe, dwarven waraxe, greataxe, maul, spiked gauntlet, two-handed sword, or warhammer), Martial Weapon Proficiency (spiked armor), Power Attack.
Special: Rage ability.
The Kuldjargh Hit Die: D12
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Battle scarred (DR 1/—), battle rage, uncouth
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 spiked charge
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Battle scarred (DR 2/—), unshakable
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 spiked thrasher
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Battle scarred (+1 natural AC), unyielding
6th +6 +5 +2 +2 Battle scarred (DR 3/—), battle brute
7th +7 +5 +2 +2 unbowed
8th +8 +6 +2 +2 Battle scarred (DR 4/—), mad charge
9th +9 +6 +3 +3 unbreakable
10th +10 +7 +3 +3 Battle scarred (+2 natural AC ), mad thrasher
Class Skills (2 + Int modifier per level): Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Con), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (religion), Perform (sing) (Cha), and Ride (Dex). (Note, though most kuldjargh are horrible singers, it does not stop them from trying and a very few from actually achieving some skill.)
Class Features
Kuldjargh are berserker warriors, who charge heedlessly into combat relying on their rage to enhance their power and spiked armor to deal additional damage, seemingly unconcerned about the attacks coming their way. All the following are class features of the kuldjargh prestige class.
Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Kuldjargh gain no proficiency with any armor or weapons.
Kuldjargh are trained to fight with a melee weapon, most often a dwarven waraxe—or sometimes a two-handed sword (often known as a dwarven claymore) if dedicated to Haela Brightaxe, or in rarer cases, a maul, bastard sword, greataxe, battleaxe, or warhammer—in conjunction with their spiked armor. Most wear breastplates adorned with armor spikes, and wear a horned (or spiked) helmetRac and spiked gauntlets (which some favor over axes and blades as their primary melee weapon). Some, those not wielding two-handed weapons, also carry spiked heavy steel shields, while some of those multiclassed as fighters or clerics choose to wear spiked full plate armor instead of breastplates. In addition to their mighty axes and spiked bits, kuldjargh often throw light hammers, throwing axes, or sometimes daggers as they charge into melee—bows and other fired weapons are “cowards’ toys.” Many also braid their beards with barbs, which are said to enhance their fierceness, and ride war pigs (dire boars) into battle.
Battle Scarred (Ex): A kuldjargh’s flesh becomes so scarred and corded with muscle, it’s like animal hide, and his nerves so inured to pain, he simply endures some wounds. At 1st level, a kuldjargh gains the ability to ignore 1 point of damage each time he is dealt damage from a weapon or natural attack. This amount increase by 1 point at 3rd, 6th, and 8th level and stacks with a barbarian’s damage reduction. In addition, at 5th level, a kuldjargh gains +1 natural armor bonus. This amount increases by +1 at 10th level.
Battle Rage (Ex): Kuldjargh are capable of channeling their wrath into a fearsome rage in which they obliviously ignore the attacks of their foes, all the while bellowing out songs praising their gods and the glories of battle. A kuldjargh adds his class levels to his barbarian levels to determine how often he can rage and when he gains the greater rage, tireless rage, and mighty rage barbarian class features. In addition, he gains an additional +2 bonus to his Constitution score while raging. He does not gain or improve any other barbarian class features.
Uncouth (Ex): A kuldjargh’s manners are as hard as his body. This feature grants them a few minor abilities.
First, kuldjargh are boorish and frightening. They suffer a -4 penalty on all Charisma ability and Charisma-based skill checks, except Intimidate checks. Additionally, kuldjargh can use their Constitution modifier in place of their Charisma modifier on all Intimidate checks.
Second, kuldjargh are raucous and rowdy drinkers, usually imbibing copious amounts of gutshaker (see below). They no longer have to make a Fortitude save to keep from getting nauseated from simply drinking gutshaker, double the amount of alcohol they can drink before having any ill effects, and gain a competence bonus equal to their kuldjargh level on all saves involving alcohol. (Note, except as noted below, gutshaker follows all the rules you use for alcohol in your campaign.)
Third, like many an unwelcome guest, kuldjargh will sleep anywhere, taking their rest when they can or must, whether it’s in their armor or passed out on a hard floor. They can sleep on virtually any surface or in light or medium armor without becoming fatigued.
Spiked Charge (Ex): Kuldjargh learn to turn their entire body into a weapon. They use their spiked armor to slam into their foes and madly thrash, tearing their opponents apart. Beginning at 2nd level, when a kuldjargh uses a charge action or makes a full attack, he can make an additional attack with his spiked armor at a -5 penalty. If he is charging, he can add his full Strength modifier to the damage, however, he can only add 1/2 his Strength modifier to the damage if he is making a full attack.
Unshakable (Ex): Kuldjargh are fearless and single minded in purpose, able to draw upon the determination and steadiness of all dwarves. Beginning at 3rd level, kuldjargh are immune to fear and can use their Constitution modifier in place of their Wisdom modifier on Will saves.
Spiked Thrasher (Ex): Kuldjargh are mighty grapplers with their spiked armor. Beginning at 4th level, the kuldjargh is considered armed if wearing his spiked armor and does not provoke an attack of opportunity when he makes a touch attack to start a grapple. He also gains a +2 bonus on all grapple checks made while wearing his spiked armor, regardless of whether the kuldjargh started the grapple.
In addition, if an enemy attempts to grapple the kuldjargh, the kuldjargh gains an attack of opportunity with his spiked armor, even if the enemy has a feat or special ability that would normally bypass the attack. If the kuldjargh deals damage with this attack, the enemy fails to start the grapple unless it has the Improved Grapple feat or a special ability such as improved grab. If the enemy has such an ability, the kuldjargh may add the damage he dealt as a bonus on his opposed check to resist being grappled.
Unyielding (Ex): Like the war pigs the kuldjargh sometimes ride, they don’t know the meaning of the word quit. At 5th level, as long as the kuldjargh’s battle rage continues, he is not treated as disabled at 0 hit points, nor is he treated as dying at -1 to -9 hit points. Even if reduced to -10 hit points or less, he continues to fight normally until his battle rage ends. At that point, the effects of his wounds apply normally if they have not been healed. This ability does not prevent death from massive damage or from spell effects such as slay living or disintegrate.
Battle Brute (Ex): Kuldjargh are the bane of many a foe. At 6th level, a kuldjargh gains any one feat that includes Power Attack and/or the rage ability as a prerequisite and for which he qualifies. Many kuldjargh choose opt for the Great Cleave feat, in order to better serve their leaders as “hordebreakers.”
Unbowed (Ex): Like a rabid animal, kuldjargh can continue fighting even in the face of horrific injuries and effects. At 7th level, a kuldjargh gains Mad Foam RagerPH2 as a bonus feat.
Mad Charge (Ex): Kuldjargh frequently charge madly into combat, heedless of the risks. Beginning at 8th level, when a kuldjargh charges, he gains an additional +2 to the attack rolls he makes at the end of the charge. In addition, melee attacks that hit deal an extra 1d8 points of damage. This amount increases as normal if the kuldjargh’s size is increased above Medium. This ability counts as the Powerful Charge feat.
Unbreakable (Ex): Perhaps it is a blessing of the gods, but kuldjargh can sometimes shrug off even the mightiest of blows. At 9th level, when a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on the kuldjargh, he has a 25% chance that the critical hit or sneak attack is negated and damage is instead rolled normally. In addition, this ability works equally well against effects that cause pain, such as the pain touch granted by the suffering domain and certain spells.
Mad Thrasher (Ex): Kuldjargh frequently grapple their foes, tearing into them with their armor spikes. At 10th level, a kuldjargh gains an additional +2 bonus on all grapple checks made while wearing his spiked armor. In addition, his spiked armor attacks and grapples deal an extra 1d8 points of damage. This amount increase as normal if the kuldjargh’s size is increased above Medium.
Ex-Kuldjargh: Like a barbarian, kuldjargh who become lawful lose the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels of kuldjargh. They retain all other benefits of the class.
Equipment
Beard Barbs
Beard barbs are sharp metallic or obsidian barbs linked by a length of wire worn by some dwarves in their beards. Wearing beard barbs grants the wearer a +1 circumstance bonus to Intimidate checks.
Cost: 10 gp; Weight: 1 lb.
Gutshaker
Gutshaker is a foul concoction of fermented goat’s milk, mushrooms, the sap of certain coniferous trees, pulped grubs, and herbs (mostly root herbs such as asafetida, coriander, horseradish, and turmeric). It is a smooth, but thick, off-white liqueur that is usually served warm. Only kuldjargh drink it regularly, usually in “short mugs” (about two shots) and it so potent that even the average dwarf will politely decline when offered a taste, never mind a short mug.
Gutshaker follows whatever rules your game uses for alcohol in your campaign. It is nearly straight alcohol, as strong as any grain alcohol or other dwarf spirits and about eight times as strong as wine or high-proofed beers. Moreover, just keeping it down is difficult and requires a Fortitude save (DC 22; bonuses against poison apply to the save) upon imbibing to avoid being nauseated for 1d6 minutes. Each shot of gutshaker during the same sitting requires a new save, though each subsequent save reduces the DC by 1 (this reduction does not apply to the effects of the alcohol in the gutshaker).
A short mug of gutshaker costs four times as much as a mug of beer, though its rarity can make it an expensive novelty drink in some locations.
Adaptation
The idea of dwarven berserkers first appeared in The Complete Book of Dwarves and was more fully developed in the character of Thibbledorf Pwent, leader of Mithral Hall’s Gutbuster Brigade, in R.A. Salvatore’s Drizzt Chronicles. However, this class can be tweaked in minor ways to create options in other campaigns.
For example, in a Ptolus campaign, the kuldjargh might add roleplaying requirements to have received recognition for defending Kaled Del or Stonelost dwarves and be invited into the fellowship of the kuldjargh in Kaled Del. They might drop Craft, Knowledge (religion), and Ride as class skills for Knowledge (history), Perform (dance), Survival, and Swim. In addition, these warriors opt for javelins instead of throwing axes and light hammers and also use various alchemical substances for ranged attacks. They also wield stone-headed (-2 to atk and dmg) Lucerne hammersDragComp, relying on the composition and reach of these weapons, to smash the various oozes, rust monsters, and skeletal creatures all too common in the Underdark. The presence of so many demons has taught these warriors to also opt for cold iron weapons when they can.
Credit
Author Thomas M. Costa, based on original material by Jim Bambra and Thomas M. Costa and inspiration from R.A. Salvatore. The kuldjargh originally appeared as the battlerager in the Complete Book of Dwarves (1991) and Races of Faerûn (2003).
Creation Notes
The 3E battlerager in RoF just doesn’t hold up well. The fact that its rage ability doesn’t stack with its barbarian rage puts it at a disadvantage. In addition, some of its abilities are of little to no use. For example, Improved Unarmed Strike is a wasted feat and rock gut is almost useless to a dwarf with a high Fort save. Several of its other abilities, such as many of its bonus feats, simply lack pizzazz. All in all, it’s a suboptimal choice for a PrC. Many of these weaknesses are my fault (since I wrote it); others came about during the editing process, such as dropping a slightly more interesting variant rage ability and some of the flavor text such as that dealing with gutshaker and beard barbs.
In redrafting this PrC, I tried to take into account all the new options that were introduced in 3.5E and looked at some of the takes others had taken on battleragers. However, in large part the PrC grew out of wanting a viable option for the dwarf barbarian I played in a Ptolus campaign (the successor to a 2E FR dwarf barbarian, Thwak Guzzlefoam, I played in college). The resulting 5 level PrC, which received my DM’s approval, worked, perhaps a bit too well, which led me to spread some of the abilities out and eventually grow the PrC to 10 levels. Hopefully, it’s more balanced now.
I approached the PrC with several basic assumptions, including the following. Dwarves are lawful and hardy creatures, battleragers should be odd and not necessarily totally chaotic, and not necessarily better or dirtier fighters than other barbarians, but playing off their dwarven Con, tougher to take down. Their tolerance for alcohol is legendary, but their resistance to poison is no greater than the already daunting dwarven warrior. While they are as capable unarmed combatants as most warriors, their true ferocity comes out through their specialized use of their armor spikes. While they could easily bull rush and overrun targets, they prefer to focus on charging, drawing on their fast movement and dwarven ability to run in medium armor at the same speed as a human in light armor. They don’t tumble in the traditional roguish sense, but rather rely on their uncanny dodge, trap sense, and various “un” abilities to provide them the defensive maneuverability. They are not stalking wilderness warriors like most barbarians and thus require fewer skill points.
This PrC should compare favorably to the champion of Gwynharwyf (which combines some paladin-esque like spellcasting, smite evil, and other abilities with raging and may in fact be too powerful) in the BoED, dwarven defender (which can use its stance far more often than the kuldjargh can rage) in the DMG, frenzied berserker (which is in some ways this PrCs opposite in that it puts all the emphasis on frenzied rages, while this one is more about enhanced defenses) in CW, dervish in CW, and my original battlerager in RoF (which was not as tightly constructed IMHO, especially after editing).
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Arkhaedun
Senior Scribe
869 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 03:06:09
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Taken care of for you Tom . . . the little trash can icon across the top of the post frame lets you delete a post if it comes up again. |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2008 : 13:03:35
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Comment on Finder Wyvernspur's Finders
I have been thinking of working on this as a side project while I wait for Fourth Edition. Here is some major comments I have been working on.
I think limiting to race might not be a good idea as Finder doesn't seem the type to turn down any kind of worshipper. Some classes might be more restrictive, but Finder's nature seems to fit with bring a little bit of this and that (Joel mentioned this in Tymora's Luck being ecletic (sorry for the spelling)).
I can see being a mixture of the Bard and Cleric classes, perhaps balancing the two. Something like Bard 3/Cleric 3 or 4. Some a limit like being able to use Inspire Competence and cast second level cleric spells. The only exception might be a Rogue/Cleric combination, which also has the Perform skill. An option might be a choice between a sneak attack of 2d6 or Inspire Competence.
Most of my fears with developing PrCl comes from getting the balance right. I figure you give the Finder a bards Hit Dice, attack bonuses and save... then in exchange you give the Finder a Few more skills and skill points to work with.
For the first level, I can see something like the Sacred Performer or the Sacred Outlaw Feat from Dragon Magazine (July 2007, the Demogorgon Issue). The former dealt with being able to stacking your Bardic Music and Turning abilities. The later dealt with stacking your sneak attack and turning feats. (ie. A bard 3/ Cleric 3 would use bardic music and turning as a sixth level character). On little bonus would be the fact the the Finder's level would count. I can see this replacing the Holy Player feat in your suggestion, even if I like the feat itself.
Love the Charismatic Caster idea. Still thinking of the others.
This is the start of my ideas. I hope by discussing this with you, the class might emerge from the stone.
Thanks,
HVulpes |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2008 : 17:18:19
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Finder of Finder Wyvernspur
Entry Requirements:
Alignment: Chaotic Good, Chaotic Neutal
Patron Deity: Finder Wyvernspur
Skills: Craft (Any) 4 ranks, Diplomacy 7 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8
ranks, Perform (Any) 6 ranks
Feat: Either Martial Weapons Proficiency (Bastard Sword) or Exotic
Weapons Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
Domains: Charm
Spells: Ability to cast 2nd-level divine spells
HD: D6
Attack Bonus Fort Ref Will Saves Spellcasting
1: 0 0 2 2 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
2: 1 0 3 3 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
3: 2 1 3 3 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
4: 3 1 4 4 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
5: 3 1 4 4 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
6: 4 2 5 5 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
7: 5 2 5 5 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
8: 6/1 2 6 6 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
9: 6/1 3 6 6 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
10:7/2 3 7 7 +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
Class Skills (6 plus Int Modifier)
Concentration (con), Craft (Int), Decipher Scripts (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (wis), Knowledge (all skills taken Individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motives (Wis) Speak Language (N/A), Spellcraft (Int)
Class Abilities:
1 Sacred Performer, Charismatic Caster
2 Creative Fire
3
4
5 (Find the Path/Light of the Stone)
6
7
8
9
10
Class Features:
Sacred Performer (EX): With use of both the Bardic Music class ability and the Turning Class ability, all bard/cleric/finder levels stack for determining the level for that ability.
Charismatic Caster (Ex): Finder encourages his faithful to reach deep within themselves for their power. Finders may use their Wisdom or Charisma, whichever is higher, to determine what level of divine spells they can prepare and cast, the DCs of their divine spells, and their bonus divine spells per day.
Creative Fire (EX): Finders are a creative, expressive people like their god. At 2nd level, all finders gain a bonus equal to their Finder level to all Craft and Perform checks.
((Find the Path/Light of the Stone (Sp):Finders at 5th level are granted a weaker version of the Find the Path feature of the Finder's Stone. It works as the normal Find the Path Spell, with the caster level equaling the Finder's level plus their Charisma or Wisdom level (using the Charismatic Caster ability), Once per day.))
Design Notes:
I used this based on the Finder Thomas Costa created, The Morning Lord of Lathander in the Player's Guide to Faerun, and the Divine Seeker from the same book.
I am not sure about the balance. I was looking for a character of a Bard 3/Cleric 3 or at least Bard 1/Cleric 5 or Cleric 9.
I have also not finished it as I need to figure out what kind of powers or lack of powers would fit. Comments would be welcomed. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 10 Feb 2008 02:16:14 |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2008 : 21:33:10
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| Hi Tom (and others), I've got some prestige classes knocking about that are based on various specialist priest classes from the 2E deity books. If you're interested, I can put them up here as possibles to work on. They are Halcyon (Aerdrie Faenya), Holy Champion (Torm), Demarch (Mask), Starsinger (Sehanine Moonbow), Holy Strategist (Red Knight). I consider most of them to be alright, with the exception of the Holy Strategist, which seems a little lacking in character to me. I think I posted the Holy Champion on here some time ago too. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 01:47:45
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| Foxhelm, I'd put more emphasis on the perform skill requirement like Tom did. After all, Finder is a bard first and foremost and would want his followers to tread in his footsteps. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 02:15:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
Foxhelm, I'd put more emphasis on the perform skill requirement like Tom did. After all, Finder is a bard first and foremost and would want his followers to tread in his footsteps.
Sorry, I must have mis-typed. Perform should be more 6 ranks (3rd level for Bards, 9th level for Clerics). It will be corrected. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2008 : 21:22:46
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| I just want to say, I think the name is a bit funny (Finder of Finder?). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 00:21:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Credit
Author Thomas M. Costa, based on original material by Eric L. Boyd. The finder originally appeared in Demihuman Deities (1997).
Design Notes
This class is inspired by the specialty priests of Finder Wyvernspur in the 2E Demihuman Deities.
Just one note here... The specialty priests of Finder were detailed in Powers & Pantheons -- not Demihuman Deities.
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 02:44:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I just want to say, I think the name is a bit funny (Finder of Finder?).
Remember that Finder had quite the ego at one point. Like his songs never changing from his version of them, his performance of them. A little less funny in that sense. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2008 : 15:37:57
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Sorry for the delayed response folks...
First, thanks Arkhaedun.
Foxhelm, great start on the Finder. One thought I have is that the more I think about it, the more I think his clergy should be mostly divine bards from UA. I also doubt that Finder cares much what type of weapon his clergy use. If we look at Joel the Bard, I think he used a rapier IIRC. For what it's worth I would probably give them the comprehend saurials and vice versa thing I worked up, otherwise Finder's already small clergy simply can't communicate well with each other. (Oh, and good catch on my mistake Sage.)
Reefy, if you don't mind, I'd like to keep this thread focused on what I had started, but I'm happy to participate in a new thread that you start. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 20:43:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I just want to say, I think the name is a bit funny (Finder of Finder?).
Remember that Finder had quite the ego at one point. Like his songs never changing from his version of them, his performance of them. A little less funny in that sense.
I understand, it's just that the name is rather, well, redundant. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2008 : 21:08:13
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Sorry for the delayed response folks...
First, thanks Arkhaedun.
Foxhelm, great start on the Finder. One thought I have is that the more I think about it, the more I think his clergy should be mostly divine bards from UA. I also doubt that Finder cares much what type of weapon his clergy use. If we look at Joel the Bard, I think he used a rapier IIRC. For what it's worth I would probably give them the comprehend saurials and vice versa thing I worked up, otherwise Finder's already small clergy simply can't communicate well with each other. (Oh, and good catch on my mistake Sage.)
Reefy, if you don't mind, I'd like to keep this thread focused on what I had started, but I'm happy to participate in a new thread that you start.
What about moving the Charismatic Caster from First to Third level and replacing it with Comprehend Saurials ability? Or there could be the development of a Tongues magic item, like the Tongues earring which Olive uses in Song of the Saurial? Only one specially created for communicating with fellow Finderites?
Thoughts? |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2008 : 23:00:09
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| Why can't you give both at first level. It's not like the speak with saurials unbalances the game in any way. |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2008 : 23:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Why can't you give both at first level. It's not like the speak with saurials unbalances the game in any way.
I agree, this feature is really a role-playing tool, nothing more |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2008 : 15:53:29
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Now, don’t know whether I missed the bit along the way, but Tom, do you only ask for assistance with the PrC you already have listed, or also for ideas (i.e. developed PrC) of other people. If the latter is the case, I could offer a couple of fully developed PrC, namely the Darkwalker of Ibrandul* and the Yathtallar (drow high priestess). I did a bit of work on other FR specialty priests before, whom you can double-check over at the DnD-Gate for reference and evaluation (of my still humble skills).
Servant of the Shadowlord (Demarch of Mask)
http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=93
Daughter of the Yochlol (Arachne & crusader)
http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=372
The PrC mentioned in the text were originally intended for the use in a post-CotSQ product, but since editions will change and the place that was to be developed obliterated in Lady Penitent II, there will be no platform for those in the foreseeable future.
*Which was intended for a series of Followers of a Lost Faith – PrC. Bhaal has already been done (Dragon 322), Myrkul and Leira are still on the agenda.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 19 Feb 2008 15:54:15 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2008 : 17:15:02
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Zanan, Nice job on your PrCs. I'm trying to keep this scroll to myself for now, but I'm happy to help others out on their own scrolls.
I also went through all the specialty priest's to see which converted well enough (in my view) with the right choice of domains and feats, and which needed a little more, thus in part, Prestige of the Realms, Vol. 1. I should post my conversion notes at some point, but (a) they're a bit dated and (2) their in table format. Maybe I can have Alaundo post them. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2008 : 12:30:28
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So since this scroll has quited down for a while, I thought I'd post another PrC or two....
Drowbasher
Drowbashers are specialized dwarven berserkers capable of breaking through the front lines of the drow, while relying on their natural resistances to avoid the attacks of the drow and their allies.
Becoming an Drowbasher
Dwarves with levels of barbarian have the easiest time becoming a drowbasher, though many multiclass as fighters or rangers. Strength and Constitution are key abilities for the drowbasher.
Entry Requirements: To qualify to become a drowbasher, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Dwarf.
Alignment: Any nonevil.
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Skills: Balance 2 ranks, Climb 8 ranks, Jump 4 ranks, Listen 8 ranks.
Feats: Blind-Fight, Mad Foam RagerPH2.
Special: Rage, trap sense, and uncanny dodge abilities. Must have lost a loved one to the villainy of the drow.
The Drowbasher Hit Die: D12
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Drowbane +1, rage, stonerunner (1 trick), trap sense +1
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Darkvision +15 ft., dwarven stalwart +1, web breaker +1
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Demon strike (magic), drowbane +2, web breaker +2
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Darkvision +30 ft., dwarven stalwart +2, stonerunner (2 tricks), web breaker +3
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Drowbane +3, trap sense +2, web breaker +4
6th +6 +5 +2 +2 Darkvision +60 ft., dwarven stalwart +3, web breaker +5
7th +7 +5 +2 +2 Demon strike (good), drowbane +4, stonerunner (3 tricks), web breaker +6
Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level): Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Con), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Spot (Wis), and Survival (Wis).
Class Features
Armor and Weapon Proficiency: Drowbashers gain no proficiency with any armor or weapons.
While they prefer melee weapons, drowbashers are well aware that many drow and spiderkind can levitate, fly, and climb, and often carry crossbows and other missile weapons, such as javelins, throwing axes, and light hammers, to deal with such foes, or even reach weapons. In addition, because drow consort with demons, drowbashers generally prefer cold iron weapons over weapons made from other materials.
Drowbane (Ex): At 1st level, a drowbasher gains a +1 bonus on Intimidate, Knowledge (dungeoneering), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against drow (including szarkai [albino drow], half-drow, half-dragon drow, shadow draconic drow, draegloths, and drow with the augmented subtype, such as vampire drow), spiderkind (see below), and the faithful of Lolth and Selvetarm (including Lolth-touched creatures and demonic servitors; in Ptolus, replace these with the faithful of Gorgoth-Lol). Likewise, he gets an identical bonus on weapon damage rolls and rolls to confirm critical hits against such creatures. At every odd level thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. Where applicable, these bonuses stack with a ranger’s favored enemy bonuses and other similar class features.
In addition, drowbashers can use knowledge (dungeoneering) in place of other knowledge checks to identify their drowbane enemies and their special powers and vulnerabilities.
The term spiderkind includes all the creatures listed below. Other appropriate creatures, for which the following list may serve as a guide, may appear in other sources. Monster Manual—aranea, bebilith (demon), drider, ettercap, monstrous spider, phase spider, retriever (demon), spider swarm; City of the Spider Queen—arachnoid creature (updated in Underdark), drider vampire, jade spider, spiderstone golem, wraith spider; City of Splendors—watchspider; Drow of the Underdark—adamantine spider, chwidencha, husk spider, husk widowmaker, shunned, spitting spider, tangled terror, widowmaker; Epic Level Handbook—devastation spider; Faiths and Pantheons—hairy spider; Fiend Folio—chwidencha (updated in Drow of the Underdark), dark weaver; Fiendish Codex I—yochlol; Frostburn—snow spider; Lords of Madness—cildabrin; Lost Empires of Faerûn—giant sun spider, giant whip spider; Monster Manual II—neogi, shadow spider, spellgaunt; Monster Manual III—chelicera, dread harpoon spider, harpoon spider, lhosk, web golem; Monster Manual IV—blackspawn stalker, bloodsilk spider, inferno spider, tomb spider, tomb spider broodswarm, web mummy; Monsters of Faerûn—chitine, choldrith, hairy spider, myrlochar, sword spider, yochlol (updated in Fiendish Codex I); Secrets of Xen’drik—tentacle spider; Stormwrack—monstrous diving spider; Underdark—arachnoid creature, chitine. (Note: this list updates the lists in City of the Spider Queen and Drow of the Underdark, by adding the watchspider, cildabrin, and blackspawn stalker. In addition, because the original lists included constructs and undead, which shared similar attacks with their living counterparts, the adamantine spider, husk spider, husk widowmaker, jade spider, spiderstone golem, web golem, web mummy, and wraith spider have also been added.)
Rage (Ex): Drowbashers are capable of channeling their wrath into a fearsome rage. A drowbasher adds his class levels to his barbarian levels to determine how often he can rage and when he gains the greater rage, tireless rage, and mighty rage barbarian class features. He does not gain or improve any other barbarian class features.
Trap Sense (Ex): At 1st level, a drowbasher’s trap sense increases by +1, and at 5th level, this bonus rises by another +2.
Stonerunner (Ex): Drowbashers are trained to ignore obstacles that prevent them from reaching their enemies. At 1st level, and again at 4th and 7th levels, a drowbasher gains a bonus movement skill trick (Complete Scoundrel 82) that does not count toward their maximum number of skill tricks and for which he meets the Balance, Climb, or Jump prerequisites (but regardless of whether or not he meets any other prerequisites, such as Tumble ranks), chosen from the following list: Corner Perch, Extreme Leap, Leaping Climber, Nimble Charge, Speedy Ascent, Twisted Charge, Up the Hill, Walk the Walls, Wall Jumper. At their option, DMs may add appropriate Balance-, Climb-, and Jump-based skill tricks as new ones are published.
Many drowbashers choose to focus either on attacking out of reach foes levitating or on webs above them, often selecting Speedy Ascent, Walk the Walls, and Wall Jumper as their bonus skill tricks, or on charging their foes, often selecting Nimble Charge, Twisted Charge, and Up the Hill as their bonus skill tricks.
Darkvision (Ex): After long months of training, the eyes of drowbashers become more attuned to the darkness. At 2nd level, they add +15 ft. to their darkvision. At 4th level, this increases to +30 ft. and at 6th level, +60 ft.
Dwarven Stalwart (Ex): A drowbasher increases his stability bonus to resist being bull rushed or tripped and his racial bonuses on saving throws against poison and spells and spell-like abilities by +1 at each even level.
In addition, the drowbasher may notice scrying sensors. The drowbasher can make a Wisdom check + his racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities (DC 20) to notice each scrying sensor. This is in addition, if applicable, to the Intelligence checks creatures can make if their Intelligence score is 12 or higher (PH 173).
Web Breaker (Ex): Drowbashers throw off, burst through, and tear down the webs of their hated foes to get to and kill them. Beginning at 2nd level, a drowbasher gains a +1 dodge bonus to his Armor Class and a +1 bonus on all saving throws against grapples, webs, adhesives, and other grappling, entangling and sticking attacks (such as nets and tanglefoot bags), spells (such as entangle, web, or viscid glob) and effects (such as a kuo-toa’s adhesive ability). The drowbasher also gains a +1 bonus to Strength and grapple checks to oppose, break free of, or burst through such attacks, spells, and effects. These bonuses increase by +1 at each level after 2nd.
Demon Strike (Su). At 3rd level, a drowbasher treats his weapons or natural attacks as if they were magic for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction, and at 7th level, he treats his weapons and natural attacks as if they were good-aligned for the purposes of bypassing damage reduction.
Creation Notes
This class is intended to fight drow and their associates. These are dwarves trained to break through the drow front lines, while increasing their resistance to the drow’s attacks. So they gain the drowbane bonuses and class skills to help thwart drow sneakiness; dwarven stalwart to thwart drow, demon, and spider spells, spell-like abilities, proclivity for poison, and frequent use of spiked chains, whips, and the like; and web breaker to thwart the frequent use of entangling and grappling attacks (compare this to freedom of movement, which is much more powerful), etc. The class also gives them a little punch on attacks against these foes with the drowbane bonuses. The class offers a number of abilities, but the bonuses tend to be minor, grow gradually, and generally be less impressive than many other class features. Compare to the dwarf paragon in Unearthed Arcana and any of the various drow stalker or favored enemy stalker type PrCs, as well as its opposite, the kinslayer in Drow of the Underdark.
I also considered incorporating the webwalker ability below, but following a discussion with Eric L. Boyd, who suggested a slightly different stonefeet ability, I decided to tweak the class requirements (adding Balance and Jump) and to incorporate bonus skill tricks to achieve a similar result.
Webwalker (Ex): Beginning at XX level, a drowbasher gains a bonus equal to his level to Climb and Balance checks to climb and walk along webs sturdy enough to support him. In addition, the drowbasher can climb webs at half his normal speed (or his normal speed by accepting a -5 penalty). This ability does not obviate the need for the drowbasher to make saving throws or other checks to move freely across the web. If a save is not normally allowed, the drowbasher may move normally across the web with a successful Strength check equal to the DC to break the web.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2008 : 12:33:20
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And here's a couple kobold substitution levels...
Kobold Scout
If scouts are used in your campaign, kobolds gravitate to this class more often than ranger or rogue, as it perfectly combines their preferences for skirmishing without pushing them into being frontline warriors, something few kobolds wish to do. Many kobold scouts also excel as trapsmiths and miners. They typically array their ability scores as follows before applying racial and other modifiers: Str 14, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8.
Hit Die: d6
Requirements
To take a kobold scout substitution level, a character must be a kobold about to take her 1st, 3rd, or 6th level of scout.
Class Skills
Kobolds are insular and often uninterested in the world around them except in as much as it benefits them. They do, nevertheless, often learn to train their dire weasel mounts and develop other skills to help them build or infiltrate dungeons.
Kobold scout substitution levels have the class skills of the standard scout class, minus Knowledge (nature) and Speak Language, plus Handle Animal (Cha), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Open Lock (Dex), and Profession (miner) (Wis). In addition, as errata, the standard scout should have Disable Device (Int) as a class skill, as should the kobold scout. These changes affect all of the character’s future scout levels and not just their kobold scout substitution levels.
Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + Int modifier (or four times this number as a beginning character).
Class Features
All the following are class features of the kobold ranger racial substitution levels.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A kobold scout gains all the weapon and armor proficiencies of the scout plus the light and heavy pick.
Rapid Retreat (Ex): A kobold scout who takes the 1st-level racial substitution level gains the ability to retreat quickly from dangerous situations. Any time a kobold scout with this substitution feature uses the withdraw action, she gains a 5-foot bonus to her speed.
Shrewd Trapfinding (Ex): A kobold scout who takes the 1st-level racial substitution level gains a +1 competence bonus on Search checks to find traps and Disable Device checks to disarm traps. These bonuses increase by +1 at each odd level of scout to a maximum of +5 at level 9.
This bonus is lost if the kobold scout does not have a number of ranks in Craft (trapmaking) equal to or greater than her scout class level.
This substitution feature alters, but does not replace, the standard scout’s trapfinding class feature.
Skills and Bonus Feats: A kobold scout who takes the 1st-level racial substitution level changes their class skills for all scout levels, including non-substitution levels, as noted above. They also have the same choice of bonus feats gained at every fourth level, minus Brachiation and Endurance, plus Daylight AdaptationPG, Extraordinary TrapsmithRD, Kobold EnduranceRD, and Kobold Foe StrikeRD.
Rapid Climber (Ex): A kobold scout who takes the 3rd level racial substitution level gains a climb speed of 15 feet, and can attack with a light weapon normally while climbing. At 11th level, her climb speed improves to 30 feet.
Having a climb speed (MM 311) grants her a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and allows her to take 10 on Climb checks even if rushed or threatened. She also retains her Dexterity bonus to AC while climbing, and enemies gain no special bonus on attacks against her while she is climbing.
This substitution feature replaces the standard scout’s fast movement class feature.
Subterranean Stride (Ex): A kobold scout who takes the 6th level racial substitution level can move across dense rubble or natural stone floors at her normal speed, ignoring any effects related to terrain (DMG 60). However, a rock surface that is enchanted or magically manipulated to impede motion still affects her.
A kobold scout loses this benefit when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
This substitution feature replaces the standard scout’s flawless stride class feature.
Tunnel Defense (Ex): A kobold scout who takes the 6th level racial substitution level learns to use the confined spaces of a dungeon to her advantage in melee combat. She is treated as a Medium opponent when using or resisting any special attack (for example, bull rush, disarm, grapple), but only when fighting in a location no wider than her combat space (5-ft. wide). In addition, she gains the benefits of the improved uncanny dodge class feature (PH 50), but only when fighting in confined conditions (as above).
Level Special
1 Rapid retreat, shrewd trapfinding +1, skills and bonus feats, skirmish (+1d6)
3 Rapid climber, shrewd trapfinding +2, skirmish (+1d6, +1 AC), trackless step
6 Subterranean stride, tunnel defense
Kobold Swashbuckler
If swashbucklers are used in your campaign, kobolds gravitate to this class more often than fighter, as it combines their preferences for mobility, while still allowing them to serve as the frontline of defense for their communities. They typically array their ability scores as follows before applying racial and other modifiers: Str 14, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 10.
Hit Die: d8
Requirements
To take a kobold swashbuckler substitution level, a character must be a kobold about to take her 1st, 3rd, or 6th level of swashbuckler.
Class Skills
Unlike most swashbucklers, kobold swashbucklers rarely carry their panache in field of combat into the social arena. However, like most of their race, they remain adept at finding hidden things, little noticed by others.
Kobold swashbuckler substitution levels have the class skills of the standard swashbuckler class, minus Diplomacy, plus Search (Int).
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier (or four times this number as a beginning character).
Class Features
All the following are class features of the kobold swashbuckler racial substitution levels.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A kobold swashbuckler is proficient with all simple weapons, all light martial weapons, and the heavy pick, and with light armor and the buckler shield.
This substitution feature replaces the standard swashbuckler’s proficiency with ranged martial weapons.
Finesse of the Spear (Ex): A kobold swashbuckler who takes the 1st-level racial substitution level gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, even if he does not qualify for the feat, but may also apply this feat to the shortspear and spear (which allows him to use the insightful strike with these weapons at later levels). In addition, should the kobold swashbuckler take feats that apply specifically to either the shortspear or spear, such as Weapon Focus or Improved Critical, the feat instead applies to both weapons.
This substitution feature replaces the standard swashbuckler’s Weapon Finesse class feature and proficiency with one-handed and two-handed martial weapons except the heavy pick.
Point of the Spear (Ex): A kobold swashbuckler who takes the 4th-level substitution level is able to lead with the point of his weapon, gaining an effective +4 bonus to his initiative check result with his first attack of his first round of melee combat wielding a shortspear or spear against any foe. The kobold swashbuckler uses his normal initiative check result for all subsequent attacks in the same or later rounds with the same foe, as well as all ranged attacks.
For example, Irthos the 6th-level kobold swashbuckler has an initiative check result of 16 and can attack twice per round, while his opponent, Glindal the gnome, has an initiative check result of 17. As melee begins, Irthos acts first with an effective initiative check result of 20 on his primary spear attack, then Glindal with an initiative check result of 17 attacks, and then Irthos with his initiative check result of 16 gets his secondary spear attack. In the following rounds, Glindal gets her attacks before Irthos gets either of his attacks. If Irthos then moves on or is challenged by a new melee opponent, Irthos can again apply this class feature to his first strike.
(If you play with additional class features from Character Class: Dead Levels II from WotC website, this substitution feature replaces the standard swashbuckler’s seduction class feature.)
Butt of the Spear (Ex): A kobold swashbuckler who takes the 7th-level substitution level may choose to use either a shortspear or spear wielded with both hands as a double weapon like a quarterstaff. The butt end of the spear does damage as a club of the same size as the spear. The kobold swashbuckler may apply the benefits of Weapon Finesse to both ends of the spear.
This substitution feature replaces the standard swashbuckler’s acrobatic charge class feature.
Level Special
1 Finesse of the spear
4 Point of the spear
7 Butt of the spear |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 15 Mar 2008 : 12:34:15
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| Ooh, fell over to a new page, for those checking, the drowbasher PrC is on page 2. |
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Bladedancer
Learned Scribe
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 13:18:10
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| Once again great job Mr.Costa! |
Solarr Bladedancer
Mercenary For Hire
Master of the Ginsu Knives
They Slice They Dice They Will Cut through A Tin Can |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2008 : 14:09:46
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| Thanks. Much appreciated. |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2014 : 05:13:22
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| Strange this suddenly died out. Maybe we can pick this back up again!? |
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Tom Costa's Prestige of the Realms 2 Help
