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Slaygrim
Learned Scribe
111 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 20:02:36
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I don't know what my deal is. Everytime I DM I tell the PC's that they aren't going to be getting as many magical items this time around as I used to award in the past. I always feel like they have too many or too powerful of items. They know I don't like them getting too many items. Yet everytime I DM, I end up throwing some in there. It's frustrating. They seem to have way too many before they should.
As of right now, they are 10th level characters. They'll have like a +4 weapon with a additional "effect" such as keen, speed, flaming, etc. They'll have like a +3 armor and a +3 shield. They'll have cloaks of resistence +3, ring of protection +3, Amulet of natural armor +3, Robe of Eyes, etc.
I would think that the most they would have at around 10th level would be a few items of perhaps +1 or +2 range. Possibly one item reaching +3 status but not beyond that. Maybe I am wrong and the level of items they have are around what they should have, but to me it seems too much. It seems like they are walking around with items that a character twice their level would have.
Each time I tell myself that I will not give them so many items this time around, but they end up getting it anyway. Mostly from killing NPC's that I have them face. I load up the NPC's to make them more of a challenge and once the players defeat the NPC they loot him and gain all of the goodies.
If I put them deep in a dungeon to fight their way out, I put items in the dungeon to make it more interesting as they go through it. Of course in the end it seems they come out with too many things.
I guess what I should do is make powerful NPC's with little or no items to loot, or have a spell contingency that wisks away their items upon death. I guess when they explore a dungeon they shouldn't find magical items within, or severely limit what they can find.
It just seems to be a reoccuring problem and that no matter how many times I tell myself that I will hold back on the items, I end up somehow doing it anyway and only realize it after looking at their character sheed and seeing a laundry list of items. One time I had them hit with a Mordenkainen's Disjunction just to get rid of their items and they were furious about it, knowing that I did it just to rob them of their "earned items".
Does anyone else have this issue? Does anyone else handle the magic item issue well? What do you do to limit the items the PC's get? Not have them fight NPC's?
What do you think is the appropriate amount of magical items for a character to have at these levels: 5th, 10th, 15th, 20th?
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 20:32:04
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Well Met!
Just some quick thoughts:
I tend to give very few magic items to the PCs, and when I do, most of them are "utility items" (e.g. 'Troll Gut Rope', 'Spice Jar', 'Ring of Sustenance', 'Ring of Jumping', etc.). I *do* occasionally give "plus items" such as Rings of Protection and magical weapons, but I tend to see it like this: unless the PCs accomplish something *truly* heroic or clever (such as outwitting/slaying a BBEG through skill, luck and clever planning), they should not carry too many items beyond +3 bonus. I usually divide their average party level by 5 (i.e. 10th level party would have *some* +2 items). Now, if they wish to *craft* them personally, I have no objections -- after all, they see acquiring those items so important as to spend precious resources on them (Feats, XP, gold). In this instance, in my opinion, it's the DM's job to "cater" to them.
If your players constantly slay and loot NPCs for magic items, you should perhaps consider using more "brute" *monsters* in your adventures, such as Owlbears, Grey Renders, etc. Or, you could have more intelligent monsters (e.g. Dragons) hiding/trapping their treasure (i.e. items that they can't use). If your PCs are fighting members of a powerful organization (e.g. The Zhentarim, Shadow Thieves, Night Masks), it may be that that those items are just "on loan" and the organization will magically "recall" them (by 'Drawmidj's Instant Summons', for example). You might also consider using more "buffs" on NPCs by allies. However, if your PCs constantly "ambush" the NPCs, maybe they could be intelligent enough to have foreseen such possibilities either through magic or experience (e.g. if your PCs have killed several powerful members of an organization/church, they *would* use Divinations to find out the culprits).
Hope this helps!  |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4687 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 20:33:13
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Well 3.X has character Wealth tables on what PCs should have.
As for loading up NPCs with magic weapons, this might lay some of your problem.
Send vamprires, animal, giants or other monsters that have power that can not be looted.
Also if you belive the PCs have too much wealth there are many ways to reduce it. Tax it, rust it, steal it, break it and so on. Not that you can do all at once and at times clearly taxing is not an option. Nor stealing, nor breaking, however events can be designed so that these thing will occur.
Oh water hazards tend to be good for lossing armor, swim checks are based on weight carried. If all the PCs are over burdened even the Wizard might throw away a few things in order to stay alive.
Set up situations that require gifting of magic, raise dead one posible example but there are many others.
If things are real bad you prehaps can entice them into a dead magic area where nothing of magic works.
It tends to be a greater problem to take away things as far as player and DM interaction goes, then not making such items available in the first place. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Slaygrim
Learned Scribe
111 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:05:50
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In the final adventure of the current campaign I am running, the PCs are breaking into a Netherese Vault of sorts within Azrrhat. The villain in the story is a Halruaan wizard trying to free his Netherese ancestor from a Stasis Prison deep beneath Azrrhat.
I was thinking, since the place is loaded with traps, of having a Mordenkainen's Disjunction trap, or perhaps having this wizard hit them with the spell... although him casting this spell would deprive him of a full round.
What do you think of something like this? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:28:30
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You could start giving more scrolls, and/or limited use items like potions or wands with not a lot of charges...
Also, don't always give them something immediately useful or that has combat applications... If there're no bards in the party, let them find a magical harp. Let them have something like 2E's immovable rod (I don't know if that was ever flipped to 3E or not). Give them magical rope.
And throw in the odd cursed item. 
For getting rid of what they've got now, here's an idea: they find someone willing to trade for something they really want, but it's going to take several items to get it. Sure, that still leaves them with a powerful item, but it's better than a whole bunch of powerful items... And if you're really evil, you can have serious fun with it. Maybe the fighter upgrades to a magical sword, which proves to be intelligent and stubborn, and withholds abilities if the fighter doesn't give it what it wants... Or it is somehow under the control of the bad guy... Or the sword gets its power from a demon that is bound to it, and when the fighter faces the bad guy, bad guy casts the spell that frees the demon... |
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Slaygrim
Learned Scribe
111 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 21:41:03
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| I like the way you think Wooly. :D |
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LordArcana
Seeker
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2008 : 22:18:07
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My only comment on this is be careful when using spells or traps or effects that destroy the players items...atleast without giving them some warning or means to protect themselves. 10th level characters getting hit by a disjunction is a bit excessive in my opinion.
As you describe items in your game are pretty powerful, it stands to reason others essentially NPC's would take an interest in them. What if a group of 9-12th level NPC's ambushed the PC's and only stole certain items of fallen PC's letting the others live while they escape.
Rogue/assassin that steal in the night
Send them to a place where magic doesn't function. I personally used a demiplane that had no access to the higher planes. Only a few select Arch Devils could grant followers powers and magic functioned different. All items dropped +2 in their enchantment.
Another i used when my group of lawful good and neutrals decided to loot a burial ground for no other purpose then to be powerful. An ancient nishruu was released by some means and the PC's had to get rid of it. They thought permanent magic would just lose function while inside but due to the age and strength of this Nishruu it drained items for good. +1 per round of contact.
Don't forget rust monsters!
Clockwork Horrors! |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 04:15:27
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Are you flavoring up your items? An elven character of mine once found a simple custom +1 longsword that he kept and used far past the need for it (as other more powerful weapons became available), simply because I detailed it well, even adding a phrase in elven on the blade. He was convinced that this must be some dormant moonblade, possibly his own families. And our wizard didn't help much by playing along and saying he didn't know what sort of magic was inside, only that it was "ancient, and deadly powerful".
Ah, it eventually got stolen which prompted the character to want to go on a quest to find it. We all stopped playing soon after. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Awarding the players with magical items....
