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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 00:31:27
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quote:
Originally posted by initiate
As Kuje mentioned, a couple Chosen are already dead, (though wasn't Khelben Steven Schend's call?)
Nope. I think Steve himself has said that plot development was not his choice. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 01:08:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
All I can say to that is they had better not do that. If the powers that be do not like the chosen why can't they just not write about them and let us decide their fates? If they start Bumping off the chosen or perverting them so soon into 4e, I am really starting to think there is someone wanting to change all things Ed!!
I like this series and where it is heading so i don't want to see Quilue Messed with!
You mean like killing Khelben and Sylune, so far. :)
Right 
I am wondering if whoever is in charge of the changes is trying to re-create the realms by "removing" some(or many) of what makes the realms the place we love. I remember someone with wizards saying that if you like the chosen , then you would not like what 4E means for them.
I like quilue just the way she is, and a more interesting angle than corrupting her would be to see how she handles the dismantling of most of Ellistrae's progress...oh well. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 13:03:54
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| So I guess I have no real feelings toward Qilue one way or the other based on these books. Since no one is upset at the possibility that other main characters in the series could be killed, I have to assume this affection for Qilue comes from her being featured in other novels. Where else has she appeared? |
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Lady Fellshot
Senior Scribe
USA
379 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 14:46:15
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| The two books I can remember off the top of my head are Tangled Webs by Elaine Cunningham and Silverfall by Ed Greenwood. Does anyone know if there are others? |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 16:21:12
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She also appears in the other two books of Liriel's trilogy (that is, Daughter of the Drow and Windwalker).
quote:
with an eye more toward sensationalism and pot-stirring than long-term consequence.
I have to admit, that was one of my first thoughts when it sank in for me that two gods (my two favorites in the drow pantheon at that) had apparently been unceremoniously whacked in the first book alone, taking great chunks of backstory and potential to the Astral Plane with them, though I'm much calmer about it now (and practicing some heavy-duty denial).
Eilistraee used to be my third favorite, but this series has soured me on her somewhat. Maybe it's just that it contradicts the image of her I had before this, which I guess was pretty much a composite of Seyll (who believed nobody was beyond redemption), Ilmater, and the much younger version of her who appears in the Evermeet novel. Maybe what did happen was perfectly in line with prior canon, but the Eilistraee in my head would have reacted with a bit more... I don't know, maybe emotion... at the end of Sacrifice of the Widow etc. and maybe that's what ticked me off so. Also I found Cavatina rather irksome and Qilué is apparently on the verge of going off the deep end.
But still, I think I'd rather take Eilistraee (plus all the bits of Vhaeraun except the bits that together endeared him to me, though I can dream) over Drow of the Underdark-esque "Lolth Rules Supreme and twins all eat each other in utero." Oh well, still got Ghaunadaur... right? Right?
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otherwise known as: "The War of the Spider Queen: For Really Reals This Time"
That is just unbelievably apropos, though at this point I'm halfway hoping for another fizzle. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 18:03:47
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| I think you've captured my feelings concerning the Eilistraeens well. I really liked them until I read these books. |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 18:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
So I guess I have no real feelings toward Qilue one way or the other based on these books. Since no one is upset at the possibility that other main characters in the series could be killed, I have to assume this affection for Qilue comes from her being featured in other novels. Where else has she appeared?
Qilue has been established as a Realms character for a very long time outside of the novels--she is a Chosen of Mystra (along with Eilistraee) and is one of the Seven Sisters as well.
And no, to be honest I can't say that I'd be "crushed" if any of the main characters (Cavatina, Q'arlynd, Halisstra) ended up dying. I don't hate them, but I don't feel any particular affection for them either. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 18:38:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I think you've captured my feelings concerning the Eilistraeens well. I really liked them until I read these books.
Thank you (unless you didn't mean me).
I mean, it's not like they haven't been imperfect before. For example, Yarno's parents were High Hunted in Extinction, and a group of them tried to kill Dove Falconhand in Silverfall (I'm going to stay out of the whole gender-exclusive clergy kerfaffle for now). But Qilué told them off for the Dove thing, and the werewolf thing was largely regarded as an accident (on both their part and, meta-ly speaking, the author's part). And a lot of these priestesses grew up in the Underdark, they're probably not going to keep up the shiny 24/10. So the servants of Eilistraee are not always going to be letter-perfect Good, nor letter-perfect adherents to their goddess's will, and it would be unfair to expect that.
But in Sacrifice of the Widow it seems this, I don't know, this cold streak goes all the way up to Eilistraee herself, and I actually had a burst of warm fuzzies for Lolth of all people for kindasorta calling her on it in the Storm of the Dead prelude. Surely that's not intentional? Unless (crazy conspiracy theory time!) it's deliberate so as to try and cut down on the fan outrage when she's killed off? 
I miss Seyll. She might be considered "Stupid Good" but I'd take her over Cavatina any day. |
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Ozzalum
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 18:50:49
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| I was referring to you Toby. Was Seyll only in the WotSQ series or did she get featured elsewhere as well? I really liked her. Eilistraee let her down big time. |
Edited by - Ozzalum on 05 Dec 2007 18:52:04 |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3567 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 21:45:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
So I guess I have no real feelings toward Qilue one way or the other based on these books. Since no one is upset at the possibility that other main characters in the series could be killed, I have to assume this affection for Qilue comes from her being featured in other novels. Where else has she appeared?
Qilue has been established as a Realms character for a very long time outside of the novels--she is a Chosen of Mystra (along with Eilistraee) and is one of the Seven Sisters as well.
And no, to be honest I can't say that I'd be "crushed" if any of the main characters (Cavatina, Q'arlynd, Halisstra) ended up dying. I don't hate them, but I don't feel any particular affection for them either.
I actually think that Q'arlyd and Halisstra deserve to die and Cavatina could use a little "come uppance" The scene where Quilue nicked herself with the Cresent Blade while dancing showed a bit of jealousy and resentment for Quilue. A nice scar for her to look at in the mirror would temper her a bit! |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 05 Dec 2007 : 21:55:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ozzalum
I was referring to you Toby. Was Seyll only in the WotSQ series or did she get featured elsewhere as well? I really liked her. Eilistraee let her down big time.
I think she only really appeared in War of the Spider Queen, though she was mentioned sometimes in the Lady Penitent series and her brother appeared in Sacrifice of the Widow. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2007 : 17:24:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by initiate
Rinnonalyrna Fathomlin Wrote:
Worst case scenario: its a corrupted Qilue.
This. Would. Make. Me. So. Mad. I would not buy the book. My fan anger would be terrible in its ridiculous magnitude! I would, um, rage impotently and ... stuff.
But remember, it may not happen. Really, anything could happen in final book of this trilogy.
This is actually the point which bothers me most. First, we were "dragged" through 6 (not the usual 3) novels to see what becomes of the Spider Queen and her kin in a series which did near to nothing with regards to explaining what she did, but is wrongly called "The War of the Spider Queen". Then we get a series equally misleading in its title - "Lady Penitent" - which goes on through a further three novels, making it in essence a 9 novel series, covering fully six years to bring to an end that is as open now as it was in July 2002. Next ... no, I actually do not want to think that far. I just read through Stardeep and am reasonably happy that here you have a novel that does things from start to finish in one novel, something that does not turn much of the lore that I own upside down and leave me with a few scraps I "should be happy to get". (And yes, IMHO, the whole drow pantheon thing is really messed up.)
I have every confidence that Lisa will give us another very good novel, but I cannot say that I anticipate the events described therein with any great deal of hope.*
BTW, covers, backcover- and teaser-texts, expecially with the LP series, leave quite a bit to be desired. For more recently you hardly get what the aforementioned texts proclaim within the novel as such.
*Hope as in: a good solution which does leave enough opportunities to all parties concerned. A single mega-cool Lolth (a la Drow of the Underdark) would be no good solution (unless you like this half a handful of deities sort of pantheon picture), nor would be a Eilistraee-only version. I ... could go on for ages again, but in the end my point simply is: there is no need for any deiicide, nor one "final and 'there can only be one'" sava game either. I can see no point whatsoever here, since the drow as an enemy race will never really work again if Lolth get's chucked or a (semi-)good goddess takes over their reigns. And just don't come up with these Eberron-namesakes. They are drow only by name and stats, IMHO. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 06 Dec 2007 17:37:39 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 19:06:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
All I can say to that is they had better not do that. If the powers that be do not like the chosen why can't they just not write about them and let us decide their fates? If they start Bumping off the chosen or perverting them so soon into 4e, I am really starting to think there is someone wanting to change all things Ed!!
I like this series and where it is heading so i don't want to see Quilue Messed with!
You mean like killing Khelben and Sylune, so far. :)
Um, hasn't Sylune been "dead" for quite some time now? |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 07 Dec 2007 19:07:22 |
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TobyKikami
Learned Scribe
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 19:15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by The Red Walker
All I can say to that is they had better not do that. If the powers that be do not like the chosen why can't they just not write about them and let us decide their fates? If they start Bumping off the chosen or perverting them so soon into 4e, I am really starting to think there is someone wanting to change all things Ed!!
I like this series and where it is heading so i don't want to see Quilue Messed with!
You mean like killing Khelben and Sylune, so far. :)
Um, hasn't Sylune been "dead" for quite some time now?
From what I've heard she was "killed" as in "no longer in a position to do stuff from beyond the grave." |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 20:44:39
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| She died the first time around after bashing that great red (?) wyrm with her staff. She did return as some sort of spectral harper/mage sort of thing, but in one of the recent adventures/novels was apparently permanently laid to rest. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Dec 2007 : 22:35:19
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| What they said, she was still around in some sense, now she isn't. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2007 : 07:54:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
What they said, she was still around in some sense, now she isn't. :)
WHAT?!
Chaga choka'jinn! My patience with WOTC is wearing thinner and thinner. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
Edited by - khorne on 08 Dec 2007 07:57:07 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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Yasraena Dawndancer
Acolyte
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2008 : 15:09:37
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| Sadly, I am about ready to slap a big old IGNORE button on the Forgotten Realms. If they zotch Eilistraee, they will kill one of the nostalgic things I have had from the Original Drow of the Underdark book. *sniff* And my introduction into Dungeons and Dragons. If not for tails of a friends Eilistraeen convert, I would have never played D&D. |
One who has true faith and good deeds, never fears death. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 12:22:42
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| The Old Realms will never die ... or always be there. For no-one can dictated at what time you play, which deities, heroes or rules you use. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2010 : 19:16:17
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| Sorry to perform scroll necromancy, but I've just read Storm of the Dead and I'm curious: did Q'arlynd ever see Halisstra in her shape of Lady Penitent? |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Ascendancy of the Last
