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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 18:48:03
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Elsewhere it hath been said:
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Originally posted by Wenin
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Originally posted by Kuje
WOTC also lists it as noncanon, unlike the Double Diamond events, unless Brian changed that by adding material from the novel into the Grand History. Peers at Brian.
Do they have an actual published list?
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Originally posted by The Sage
Yes, they do. See here.
To which Jamallo Kreen adds:
Can someone please point me to a list of Realms computer games and other products, and explain which of them are "canonical"? One never knows when one will have to consult some such thing in order to present one's players with a "whiff of grapeshot." 
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4693 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 19:13:58
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The base rule is, if a product has the FR logo it is canon. That if new lore conflicts with older the newer product is canon now.
As for a list of Realms computer games, not sure where that list might be found. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2007 : 19:33:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
The base rule is, if a product has the FR logo it is canon. That if new lore conflicts with older the newer product is canon now.
As for a list of Realms computer games, not sure where that list might be found.
Thanks.
My interest is in finding out which products have been assigned the logo. I may have to buy some things over the Internet sight unseen.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2007 : 23:12:10
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Well, here's what I know of the three Neverwinter Nights campaigns:
Neverwinter Nights: Possibly canonical. I haven't heard enough to confirm it either way, but nothing about it seems to conflict with published sources.
Shadows of Undrentide: Canonical. Undrentide appears in the Grand History of the Realms, among other things.
Hordes of the Underdark: Non-canonical. While it does chronologically fit with Lolth's Silence, no other sources taking place in 1373/1374 confirm an invasion of Waterdeep by drow, nor Mephistopheles invading the material plane of Faerūn. The lack of inclusion in neither the Grand History nor Return to Undermountain appears to put the last nail in the coffin, to use the adage.
I don't have any data on whether the Neverwinter Nights 2 campaigns are canonical. If there any other scribes out there with said information, feel free to post. |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Uzzy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
618 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 00:22:41
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The Wailing Death is mentioned in The Grand History, in the year 1372 DR, so that part at least is canon.
I've always considered the rest of the events in Neverwinter Nights to be canon too, at least the overarching plot. It's easy enough to fit in, and most of the people I play with have played and enjoyed the game.
Nothing has been mentioned so far for NWN2. I suppose we will only find out when the 4th Edition FRCG comes out. |
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Daviot
Senior Scribe
USA
372 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 01:07:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
The Wailing Death is mentioned in The Grand History, in the year 1372 DR, so that part at least is canon.
I must have missed it. Thanks, Uzzy! |
One usually has far more to fear from the soft-spoken wizard with a blade and well-worn boots than from the boisterous one in the ivory tower.
My Tabletop Writing CV. |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2007 : 09:58:02
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The basic rule for the computer games (as I understand it from reasing what the various WOtC-designers have said here and elsewhere) in regards to what is canon and what isn't is: If something in a game has been mentioned in a gaming supplement, novel, article in Dragon/Dungeon/wotc.com, then it is canon, otherwise it is at most "not yet canon, but might become so."
So, so far, the only bits of the Neverwinter Nights games that have made it into canon lore that I know of is:
There was a plague in Neverwinter (Grand History of the Realms.
Undrentide exists (also Grand History of the Realms).
As does Aribeth's ring (see Magic of Faerūn) and
The Staff of Valmaxian (see Realms of the Elves). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 00:41:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I've always considered the rest of the events in Neverwinter Nights to be canon too, at least the overarching plot. It's easy enough to fit in, and most of the people I play with have played and enjoyed the game.
I agree. HotU was my favorite of the official campaigns (not counting the various premium modules) and I consider it canon even if WotC doesn't. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 18:13:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
quote:
Originally posted by Uzzy
I've always considered the rest of the events in Neverwinter Nights to be canon too, at least the overarching plot. It's easy enough to fit in, and most of the people I play with have played and enjoyed the game.
I agree. HotU was my favorite of the official campaigns (not counting the various premium modules) and I consider it canon even if WotC doesn't.
It was my favorite too. I always pretended that my char was from the original campaign instead of SoU because I did not care much for the SoU campaign. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
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My game design work:
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 20:23:03
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What of early computer games -- TSR era?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12005 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 20:35:39
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I'd bet NWN2 will be considered canon. putting some spoiler space
The "Shadow King", who is a hero of Ancient Ilefarn who basically gave up his humanity (yes Human) to become a being similar to a construct whose only focus was to protect Ilefarn. The "Guardian", as he was known in Ilefarn, was intimately tied to the weave. When Karsus fell, the "Guardian" was forced to turn to another source of magic in order to continue to protect Ilefarn. Thus the "Guardian" became the "Shadow King" because of an act of desperation by turning to Shar's shadow weave. Your character in the game bears a shard of the great Githyanki Gith's sword in you, and you use it and other shards to reforge a minor version of Gith's sword. You then destroy everything linking the "Shadow King" to the shadow weave using Gith's sword. However, in the end, you also disappear. There's an add-on to this that I haven't played through called mask of the betrayer. I don't know if this continues this story or not, but with your character disappearing and the whole shadow weave thing... I'd bet this happens in the history. Especially because it also devastates the countryside near Neverwinter, which plays into the "Lights in the Darkness" concept. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2007 : 20:51:03
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| Unlike SoU to NWN1, MotB does continue with the character from the NWN2 campaign. If you start a new char it auto-levels you to around level 18. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 19:00:45
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A HA! 
Thanks to Wikipedia, I can now narrow my question: how canonical are the Gold Box computer games? I know that Pool of Radiance counts, but what about the others?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2007 : 21:06:31
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Curse of the Azure Bonds and Pools of Darkness are certainly canon, but I've not seen anything from Secret of the Silver Blades in any previous sourcebook.
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
how canonical are the Gold Box computer games? I know that Pool of Radiance counts, but what about the others?
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Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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Murray Leeder
Forgotten Realms Author
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 16:20:42
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| The novel Pools of Darkness and the game are vastly different from each other, but there is a canonical reference in Ruins of Zhentil Keep to Bane stealing cities and placing them underground. In the game (and the book too, if I remember), this is done to a whole host of Moonsea cities, which just seems a bit too huge for the official timeline, somehow (does the population of Hillsfar still reminisce about that time that the whole city disappeared, sat in a cavern somewhere for a while, and then magicially returned without anything interested having happened?). |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 17:11:50
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How about the Eye of the Beholder games??? In the 1st one
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You kill Xanathar, the Beholder...and in Waterdeep sourcebooks it says IIRC that Xanathar was killed and is replaced by The Eye who poses as The Xanathar. Is this due to the game or anything, is it confirmed??? |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
Edited by - Alisttair on 22 Nov 2007 17:13:12 |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 18:34:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
How about the Eye of the Beholder games??? In the 1st one
SPOILER
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You kill Xanathar, the Beholder...and in Waterdeep sourcebooks it says IIRC that Xanathar was killed and is replaced by The Eye who poses as The Xanathar. Is this due to the game or anything, is it confirmed???
Something happens to The Xanathar in the AD&D comic too.. but I don't remember if he get killed. |
Edited by - Skeptic on 22 Nov 2007 18:35:49 |
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Akeri Rualuavain
Seeker
Canada
99 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 18:51:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Kajehase
The Staff of Valmaxian (see Realms of the Elves).
Where does that appear in the game ? |
Sorry for my bad English, I'm french born
The courage to follow our dreams is the first step to achieve our destiny
The tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo
http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2007 : 08:02:24
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| It's been over a year since I played it - but it's basically just a magic staff that you can find (or possibly loot from a vanquished enemy; like I said, it's been more than a year since I played the game). |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 02:14:19
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| Right--it was just an item, and not a particularly special one. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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questing gm
Master of Realmslore
Malaysia
1595 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 08:18:40
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Let's not forget that Baldur's Gate is canon, despite how horrendous I have heard about the novel...
Speaking of which, which parts of an event are considered canon in the game? For example, is the Bhaalspawn from the Baldur's Gate novel canon or the whole Bhaalspawn Saga is canon while the characters themselves are anonymous?
Also, if did the GHoF mentioned who lifted Neverwinter from the plague, or was it just the incident (but not its recovery) that is canon ? |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 08:49:17
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| When another printed product mentions anything from a computer game it is canon, and in that version. therefore the novel version of Baldurs gate is canon. I seem to remember the Baalspawns being mentioned somewhere, but I am unsure. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 14:24:11
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The characters from the novels were statd up in DRAGON #262 for 2e and there is the Bhaalspawn template for 3e in DRAGON #288. There is also the sourcebook Ed wrote that complements the novels -- Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II. And the bits in PoF and LEoF which reference the Bhaalspawn.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2007 : 22:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by questing gm
Also, if did the GHoF mentioned who lifted Neverwinter from the plague, or was it just the incident (but not its recovery) that is canon ?
All GHotR states is that there was a mysterious plague in Neverwinter in 1372. It doesn't go into detail about what the plague was, who started it, or who saved the city. That's all left to the imagination.
And in my opinion, that's just as well, because that particular official campaign mangled FR lore pretty badly. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
Edited by - Rinonalyrna Fathomlin on 25 Nov 2007 22:20:28 |
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Canon and other artillery of the Realms
