| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 03:52:51
|
I just finished reading The Shadow Stone, by Rich Baker, and by far the most interesting take away is the possibility that shadow magic was not necessarily created by Shar. Of course there are several possibilities, all fitting her style:
-Shar did create the shadow weave, but hid her hand in its creation from the Imaskari, because they were an anti-deific society.
-Shar did not create the shadow weave, and has lied to her worshippers about it, explaining why non-worshippers have no trouble accessing it.
-Shar claimed the shadow weave for her own sometime after the fall of Imaskar.
The nature of Imaskari magic is also very interesting, combining shadow magic (mentioned in the Shadow Stone), artificer magic (Lost Empires of Faerun), and extradimensional manipulation (I think this was mentioned in The Underdark). The Shadow Stone reveals also that early Imaskari bound their souls to fiends to master this power. A true illustration of how potent magic was in the ancient times.
Madryoch the Ebon Flame hinted at no involvement of Shar, throughout the book. Btw, I think his possessing spirit would make a great high level villain, and it is left open at the end of the book that he might come back. Particularly now that some Imaskari are returning to the surface, he has natural targets to tempt.
|
|
|
Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 16:31:53
|
However,
There's a lot of material about the Shadow Weave that came out after that book because do remember that book was tacked onto FR during 2e and the Shadow Weave didn't really get flushed out, and overused, until 3/3.5e. The novel was originally supposed to be set in Birthright.
So, if you are going to stick with the info from a novel that is dated, I'd go with option one. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
 |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 11 Nov 2007 : 20:53:04
|
| And we have sourcebooks that explicitly state that Shar created the Shadow Weave. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 00:55:23
|
| Also, this is beyond confusing for me, but isn't there a distinct type of "Shadow Magic" that has nothing to do with Shar or the Shadow Weave? |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Neriandal Freit
Senior Scribe
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:09:35
|
| Shadow Magic is just a type of magic, the Weave or Shadow Weave is the object the magic is filtered through. |
"Eating people is wrong...unless it's on the first date." - Ed Greenwood, GenCon Indy 2006 |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:14:47
|
Indeed. Shadow Magic is, essentially, just a "school" of magic that can be used through both the Weave and the Shadow Weave. The 3/3.5e PHB has spells that carry the 'Shadow Magic' descriptor. When those novels were written there was no Shadow Weave -- there was only Shadow Magic. Shadow Magic also is connected to the Plane of Shadow, or in 2e's case, the Demiplane of Shadow.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:22:32
|
I've never been able to find it, so I've never read it, but whenever I've heard about the Shadow Weave in regards to the story in the Shadow Stone I've wondered if the lead character wasn't just using shadow magic. It wouldn't be a big shock that the Imaskari dabbled in shadow magic, since they learned to utilize a lot of extraplanar sources for magic.
I know, in the FRCS the main character from this book is listed as a Shadow Adept. Then again, I'd likely attribute that to the fact that the Shadow Weave seemed to be something that the design team didn't really polish up until later on. If you read the Return of the Archwizards trilogy, you get they "Dark Side of the Weave" equal and opposite origin, which I never liked myself, and is itself contradicted by Magic of Faerun, which is a later source, and the information therein isn't being provided by an unreliable narrator.
Shar has been around since the beginning of time, so its not too hard to see her having started to create the Shadow Weave very early on, and the Imaskari managed to tap into an "early" version of it. Given her propensity for secrets, it wouldn't seem that strange for her to allow the Imaskari to "discover" the Shadow Weave and think it was some kind of "natural" magical phenomenon that they were the only ones to discover.
In fact, if you read the entry on Shar's creation of the Shadow Weave in Magic of Faerun, it mentions that she began experimenting with the Shadow Weave in remote corners of the world before she spread it across Faerun. Its easily conceivable that Imaskar was one of the "remote corners."
Shadow Magic has been hinted at or outright mentioned (but not really detailed much) for years, including in the FRCS, which mentions that shadow magic is separate from shadow weave magic (so the same game source that introduces the Shadow Weave also differentiates it from general shadow magic).
Shadow Magic, as detailed in Tome of Magic (3.5 version), is a magical tradition that casts effects that rely heavily on pulling shadow stuff from the Plane of Shadows. The Tome of Magic itself confuses matters by saying that shadow magic draws on the Shadow Weave, mainly because it seems like the sidebar where this is mentioned was written by someone that doesn't know how magic and the Weave works in the Realms (and while newer sources normally trump older sources, Eytan clarifies this in his Class Chronicles articles, since the sidebar seems to assume that all shadow effect magic draws on the Shadow Weave, thus defaulting back to the whole Dark Side/Light Side explanation).
In short, shadow magic can drawn on either the Weave or the Shadow Weave for its source of power, and then the spell itself conjures effects from the Plane of Shadows, no matter where the energy to enact the spell comes from.
It would be like Velsharoon taking the "dead and dying" areas of the weave and "reanimating" them, thus creating a "necro weave." Necromantic spells could still be powered by either the Weave or the Necro Weave, but it might be a little bit better (i.e. perhaps a CL bonus or a DC to save bonus) for necromantic spells.
By the way, the above is a horrible idea, I'm just throwing it out there as an example.
(RF, shadow casters from the Tome of Magic not only specialize in spells with a shadow theme, but as they get higher level, their lower level "mysteries" are cast as spell like effects because they are so infused with shadow stuff from the Plane of Shadows, and eventually they quit needing to sleep or eat as the shadows sustain them) |
Edited by - KnightErrantJR on 12 Nov 2007 01:25:34 |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 01:29:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I know, in the FRCS the main character from this book is listed as a Shadow Adept.
Yes, I remember that. I've read the novel in question--like Sage says, it was written before the 3E FRCS came out, and don't think the protagonist was really meant to be a "Shadow Adept" as far as they are described. Just my opinion though.
quote:
(RF, shadow casters from the Tome of Magic not only specialize in spells with a shadow theme, but as they get higher level, their lower level "mysteries" are cast as spell like effects because they are so infused with shadow stuff from the Plane of Shadows, and eventually they quit needing to sleep or eat as the shadows sustain them)
Pretty cool (and freaky). |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 10:34:22
|
Shadow MAgic and Shadow Weave magic are not exactly the same thing. For the Realms it was explained in the Shadowcrafter entry of the Class Chronicles
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070725
As for sourcebooks explaining the creation of the Shadow Weave and Shar's hand in it, I guess Magic of Faerūn, Faiths & Pantheons and the like will be sufficient.
Why can others access the shadow weave? Because Shar wants to draw "worshippers" or "supporters" (= any arcane caster) away from Mystra? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
|
|
|
Ranak
Learned Scribe
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2007 : 03:18:01
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Shadow MAgic and Shadow Weave magic are not exactly the same thing. For the Realms it was explained in the Shadowcrafter entry of the Class Chronicles
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070725
As for sourcebooks explaining the creation of the Shadow Weave and Shar's hand in it, I guess Magic of Faerūn, Faiths & Pantheons and the like will be sufficient.
Why can others access the shadow weave? Because Shar wants to draw "worshippers" or "supporters" (= any arcane caster) away from Mystra?
Those were along the lines of my thoughts. If she is not trying to draw worshippers, she could just want to spread corruption or some such. Another possibility is that she created it but does have direct control over it because it is, after all, tied to the plane of shadows which she does not exclusively control.
I suppose authors can do anything they like with ancient magic, since it was practically limitless in power, unbound by rules. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Shadow Weave is not Shar's creation?
