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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 24 May 2023 :  23:40:06  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hello, I usually help out at the wiki.

I was looking for the Ed Realmslore that went missing when Loremaster dot Org went down. A couple secondary sources have turned up in the meantime, but as there are no backups on Archive or anywhere, I thought I should look elsewhere before trying to confirm the accuracy of such sources. I came up with the idea of asking the people who asked those questions, or whoever may remember what was in there. It's been a decade and change, but it's worth a shot, so, here's the shot, I guess?


Without further ado, here's the questions I've got for anyone reading this thread.

-Did you, personally, ask a question?
-Was it answered? If so, do you remember the answer?
-Do you remember what questions were asked?
-Do you remember what answers were given?
-Do you remember anyone who asked a question? Was it answered?

I think we can probably at least verbally reconstruct a small slice of the lore if we work hard at it. If you can spread the word, that'll be a favor and a half, too.

Thanks in advance for your time!

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36735 Posts

Posted - 25 May 2023 :  04:23:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I copied a bit of Edlore from there, but I've got a lot of Edlore files and no idea what it would have been that I copied.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 03 Jun 2023 :  03:38:11  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alright, then. If I can unravel anything, I'll let you know so we can search for those.

Until then, it seems as though the website e-mailed people with receipts for questions submitted, and also e-mailed them every time their questions were answered. I don't know if the site was working correctly; any chance we can see what an e-mail from that website looked like? Has anyone kept one of those?
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 08 Jun 2023 :  01:00:44  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So. I asked around... and I was able to get confirmation from Erik Scott de Bie that he has no e-mails sent by the automated system. If he doesn't have any, and he had the most questions answered of anyone other than Ed Greenwood, then I must assume that the system was not working correctly, and no e-mails were sent to either the interviewees nor those who inquired; I was able to ask two people who inquired, and none of them has an e-mail with the question.

This means no permanent, automated record was kept anywhere offsite. I had planned on asking all 250 users I was able to glean, but hunting them down would be a titanic endeavor, and even if they remembered the subject, they wouldn't necessarily have a permanent record of their own. I see no hide nor hair of the interviews on the site after January 2011; I am led to understand the function was since excised from the website.

These answers have almost certainly become ephemera since. I assume Ed didn't keep copies, or we'd have seen them by now. I assume no one else kept copies, or they'd have shared since. Barring that we do the work of asking every user I could identify, we're simply done here- and it begins to seem preferrable. This is a task I cannot outsource or even allow others to help me with it; spreading around a list of people and telling others to go bug 'em has a name in legalese. There are a few names I do recognize, FWIW, I wonder about the rest, but not too much.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6604 Posts

Posted - 10 Jun 2023 :  03:26:02  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, it's of my great regrets that I didn't catalogue those answers. Gone for all time now.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 11 Jun 2023 :  02:54:50  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I should really shelve this for now. There's way more productive things I could be doing for Realmslore than hassling people for something of 15 years ago like I'm bursting out of a slasher movie.
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 18 Jun 2023 :  18:28:21  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fat chance I'd stop being obsessed for long, eh?
Anyway, I want to thank Snowblood, who wrote two pieces which preserved lore from Loremaster dot org. The cites seem complete, but I can't bet the house on that. There seems to have been anywhere between 4 and 8 answers recapitulated here.
Please don't ask Snowblood again, I already asked him and he says he has nothing else. I'd sooner do the knocking on doors part, for now.

The first of his pieces is on Illefarn. https://www.deviantart.com/phasai/art/Illefarn-of-the-Lost-Voices-140974708
The piece is dated to OCT 21 2009.

PAGE 6 contains the following cite, in italics:
Illefarn of (this) era is wild forest, broken by swamps, burned-over areas, rock ridges, high meadows, and the like WHERE NATURAL PROCESSES CAUSE THEM TO OCCUR (rather than elves or anyone else "clearing the land" except the occasional dragon crash-landing), that the elves hunt in, travel in, and "live lightly within, in harmony with the forest" (in other words, it's NOT a human kingdom with roads, bridges, cities, any settlements with walls, and so on; instead, it's largely "empty" at any one time, with Elven families clustered in some spots and absent in others). Yes, there are some permanent settlements, but it's not (physically, in terms of taming the landscape) an "organized" country the way humans would recognize one.

PAGE 54 contains the following cite, in italics:
We of Illefarn have always sought to understand life cycles in nature, from the smallest spores to the mightiest beasts (colds to dragons), and believed subtly influencing matters to bring about great changes without violence or great labour. This way is inherently superior to waging war, building many roads and walls and structures, and the "brute force" methods of dwarves, humans, and others.

PAGE 70 contains the following bullet points, cited to Ed Greenwood:
Illefarn's elves delighted in artistic expression. Important family incidents were depicted in large tapestries enchanted so that touching specific areas of the tapestry, or playing particular tunes (usually on a harp or flute, or sung), would trigger magical images (think moving but silent three-dimensional holograms) to appear, usually details or amplifications of the scene or incident or persons in it; these images preserved the likenesses of the dead, but the spells are a weakness that caused many of the tapestries to be destroyed or ravaged, over time, when other magics cast nearby reacted with them.
Illefarn's elves were master gardeners, who influenced plant growth (from tiny flowers and mosses to gigantic forest trees) by applications of natural saps, parasite and symbiote plant matter, and plant-derived substances.
Illefarn's elves mastered herbal medicines, drugs, and poisons, and their use was generally known and practised throughout the general population, not just by "learned elders."
Illefarn's elves sought to understand life cycles in nature, from the smallest spores to the mightiest beasts (colds to dragons), and believed subtly influencing matters to bring about great changes without violence or great labour was inherently superior to waging war, building many roads and walls and structures, and what they viewed as the "brute force" methods of dwarves, humans, and others.
Certain elven families of Illefarn believed that elves should learn to mate with dragons, to derive a superior elven race. This was viewed as folly (at best) by other elves of Illefarn; most of them thought of it as evil, dark potential disaster that threatened the realm - - so pursuing this goal soon went behind closed doors, into a secret society (known in later human accounts as "The Wyrmkiss").


PAGE 74 contains the following cite in italics:
The borders of the first and older elven realm of Illefarn weren't as clear-cut as more modern human realms (which tend towards mapped, formal borders as opposed to the more fluid "we patrol fiercely here, we patrol occasionally there" approach of the elves in elder times. However, at its height, "old" Illefarn's western border was the Sword Coast itself, its northern border was about a day's ride north of Neverwinter, its southern border was pretty much the same as the southern border of present-day Tethyr, and its eastern border was an irregular, wandering "band" of influence that reached into the present-day High Forest north of the Delimbiyr, covered most of what was later The High Moor south of that, reached the western verges of the Far Hills and then the Troll Mountains south of that, and took in most of the later realms of Amn and Tethyr.
It's big, but the right way to view Illefarn of that era is wild forest, broken by swamps, burned-over areas, rock ridges, high meadows, and the like WHERE NATURAL PROCESSES CAUSE THEM TO OCCUR (rather than elves or anyone else "clearing the land" except the occasional dragon crash-landing), that the elves hunt in, travel in, and "live lightly within, in harmony with the forest" (in other words, it's NOT a human kingdom with roads, bridges, cities, any settlements with walls, and so on; instead, it's largely "empty" at any one time, with elven families clustered in some spots and absent in others). Yes, there are some permanent settlements, but it's not (physically, in terms of taming the landscape) an "organized" country the way humans would recognize one.


Pages 6 and 74 share most of a paragraph, while page 70 recapitulates the contents of page 54. I'm no editor, or specialist in metatextuality, so I can't really tell what the signs are of a literal copy or of a perfect one.



His second piece is about Sharrven. https://www.deviantart.com/phasai/art/Sharrven-Realm-of-Dragons-142366444
The piece is dated to NOV 3 2009.
Pages 3-4 include two different cites.
Cite 1 is on pages 3-4.

Sharrven was founded by Moon Elves and a few Gold elves due to overcrowding in Evereska and those elves fleeing the elitism and hubris that plagued Siluvanede. Sharrven enjoyed a golden age that saw it reach heights approaching those of ancient Shantel Othreier. The realm gave birth to the realm of Eaerlann in response to the direct threat posed by a return of Vyshaan ideals. Sharrven#8223;s end came after a just a handful of centuries after it established Eaerlann. The fey#8223;ri utilised long forgotten portals to unleash tens of thousands of „monsters#8223; who unleashed a slaughter unseen since the Crown Wars upon the cities and settlements of the realm. The few survivors fled to Evereska, Illefarn and Eaerlann, leaving but a few hidden settlements and tree steadings behind.
Sharrven had a complicated rulership structure, that changed over time, but was dominated for most of the realm's existence by a series of war leaders who took direction from an inner circle of matriarchs, the Evaere (wise old female elves, all from important elven families, who had both personal influence and magical powers), to whom the heads of all elven families could appeal in matters of governance (in practise, a dozen or so of the most powerful and wealthy families cajoled the Evaere constantly, and the heads of lesser families spoke to them at annual conclaves or in emergencies).


Cite 2 is on page 4. The fact that they not merged despite being consecutive strongly implies that they were in response to different answers.
Daily life in Sharrven was guided by a "live in harmony with the land" thinking. Rather than the human habits of clearing brush and trees, building roads, and erecting structures of stone and dead (cut) trees and other materials, the elves preferred to "garden" living trees and shrubs to shape them into structures, planting specific vines and leafy bushes and influencing them with magic to interweave and create thick "thorn-hedge" living walls and roofs for their dwellings. Herbs and edible berry-plants were grown as part of dwellings, small furry forest creatures were bred and tended as human shepherds tend flocks of beasts, being culled and harvested with an eye to constantly improving the quality and quantity of available food, and so on. Dance and soft, wordless sung music were popular hobbies, and spells that involved real-time tracing of metal items (such as the weapons borne by an intruder, or a woodcutter's axe) were a specialty. The elves blended into their realm rather than reshaping and "conquering" it.
Sharrven#8223;s Elf mages used combinations of spells that caused trees to grow into dense barriers of boughs, thorns, and foliage (straight "hiding"), to confuse scent tracking and critter minds by causing predators to "look past" enspelled areas and be unable to notice that they're doing so, and general confusion/fatigue spells that afflict all who don't carry "keys" (talismans or tokens) conferring immunity to those spells. In other words, wander near and you'd feel disoriented and tired and subconsciously want to get away, but aside from getting away wouldn't want to do anything else energetic.


Page 15 cites Ed Greenwood and Loremaster.
Sharrven had a complicated rulership structure, that changed over time, but was dominated for most of the realm's existence by a series of war leaders (Aradoness/Araegisess) who takes direction from an inner circle of matriarchs, the Evaere (wise old female elves, all from important elven families, who had both personal influence and magical powers), to whom the heads of all elven families could appeal in matters of governance (in practise, a dozen or so of the most powerful and wealthy families cajoled the Evaere constantly, and the heads of lesser families speak to them at annual conclaves or in emergencies).

Page 18 makes another cite to Ed Greenwood, in italics.
Elf mages use combinations of spells that cause trees to grow into dense barriers of boughs, thorns, and foliage (straight "hiding"), to confuse scent tracking and critter minds by causing predators to"look past" enspelled areas and be unable to notice that they're doing so, and general confusion/fatigue spells that afflict all who don't carry "keys" (talismans or tokens) conferring immunity to those spells. In other words, wander near and you'll feel disoriented and tired and subconsciously want to get away, but aside from getting away won't want to do anything else energetic.

Page 15's cite recapitulates cite 1 in page 4, while page 18 recapitulates cite 2 in page 4. I suspect this means we have at least 2 answers being cited here, but it might well be 4 cites.

For context, the number of answers by Ed Greenwood, over time, was:
AUG 24 2009: Apparent starting point.
AUG 25 2009: Apparent first answer.
SEP 18 2009: 13 answers.
NOV 01 2009: 77 answers.
DEC 02 2009: 84 answers.
JAN 06 2010: 89 answers.
FEB 17 2010: Forum announcement - interviews are currently down.
JUN 02 2010: Forum announcement - interviews are back up!
JUN 12 2010: 91 answers.
AUG 10 2010: 91 answers.
OCT 04 2010: 91 answers.
OCT 17 2010: Last reference to interviews on the site. All snapshots disappear until FEB 17 2011; likely lost in site redesign.


If this helps anyone do any digging in their stuff, do tell! I'll come back if I find anything else that may help you do some digging of your own.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 18 Jun 2023 19:09:44
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Karthak
Seeker

57 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2023 :  02:08:19  Show Profile Send Karthak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll keep digging, but I did find a possible lead for obtaining info.

This article mentions Matt James in relation to Loremasters and links to a now deleted twitter account.
https://mikeshea.net/Getting_Published_in_Gaming_Panel_Record.html

Here's an archive of his twitter
https://web.archive.org/web/20130811191055/https://twitter.com/matt_james_rpg
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2023 :  02:47:59  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not likely to be there- his earlier results are corrupted. Whatever we find, to be what we're after, should be prior to FEB 17 2011.
Likewise, Loremaster_org in twitter was never archived.

I am about 100% sure that any information we find will be personal backups made by members, as nonmembers were forbidden from accessing such info and no backups were kept. If we're lucky, they'll be made somewhere public, like third party forums, but I can't be sure of that. What I can be sure of is that it will come from people who were members.

I am expecting that while there's a 99% chance for each question that they're gone for good, there's a 1% chance that someone copied it into a handout, took a screenshot to win an argument, or used fresh lore in a campaign for whatever reason; from there, I expect a 1% chance they look and find it if someone reminds them. Hopefully, some of them will find this thread on their own.

EDIT: to be clear, I would advise against asking members of that website; I'm doing that myself, and being asked by multiple people is an excellent way to get them put off from the whole thing. But maybe lighting a signal fire across the internet would help, we might get a lurker or two from that board to see it. There's no guarantee they've kept anything, but if they got something, only they can step forward. So, the best way to help would be by linking to these posts in places where the people from that forum might hang out at the moment, or asking around.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 19 Jun 2023 02:55:00
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Karthak
Seeker

57 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2023 :  02:54:56  Show Profile Send Karthak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, I assumed that Matt James was one of the people running the site and might have some archives of the site if you could get in contact.

I'll keep looking, good luck with digging up anything in the meantime.
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2023 :  23:15:22  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found another vestigial bit. There is a reference to it here on Candlekeep, where our very own Jeremy Grenemyer refers to it when talking about Bel's Blade. A more detailed version is findable in the Realms-L mailing list: on Friday, Dec 10 2010, Sanishiver sent an e-mail about Forthin Andramar, a fanon war wizard. He makes a reference to an interview post. More interestingly, he makes a date reference.

*see Ed Greenwood's October 22=2C 2009 response at www.loremaster.org/vbint=
erviews for more info on the Bel's Blade and other haunted ships that ply t=
he waters of the Realms.

(=2C) is a comma. So, October 22, 2009, is the date of an answer re: haunted ships. We've neither the question nor the answer, sadly, but I thought this was interesting to mention. Every little bit is useless right up until it isn't.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 20 Jun 2023 23:17:22
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36735 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2023 :  02:11:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've gotten this far, but I can't get any further...

https://web.archive.org/web/20100612150246/http://www.loremaster.org/vbinterviews.php

The specific URL for Ed's interview thread was http://www.loremaster.org/vbinterviews.php?do=showinterview&id=6


I've tried all sorts of creativity, even googled other web archive alternatives, but can't get any of those URLs to work.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 21 Jun 2023 :  04:01:56  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry, I should've probably mentioned this. I've already downloaded every page that the archive has and gone over them all with a fine comb; none of them has anything we need. That section was not visible without logging in, and thus would not have been archived anyway- we caught zero breaks there. There's only one thing that Archive has to show for us: that the first question was answered around 25 Aug 2009, by Vercingetorix. We don't have the question, just some minor discussion of what it was.

It apparently related to eladrin and Aglarond's Yuirwood.

https://web.archive.org/web/20091129013211/http://www.loremaster.org:80/loremaster-interviews/965-great-question-verrcy.html

The specific software used was vbinterviews, by vbcover, a company which went down in 2013. To no one's surprise, their sample page does not show RSS integration - I was hoping maybe we'd catch a break with someone's RSS reader forgotten online, but no such luck. There seem to be but three websites live today that still employ this specific interview software.

Here, have a link to what such an interview should have looked (minus accounting for page style).

https://twitter.com/ItalianKarsus/status/1671351536042098688
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
2046 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2023 :  02:57:38  Show Profile  Visit ericlboyd's Homepage Send ericlboyd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I posted an answer to IAK's question on my scroll.

--
http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2023 :  03:05:07  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And I thank you much for your patience there.

I'm now down to the plan L by now (have I not taken the L, yet?) where I go over the account names and search them on twitter (avoiding anyone who gives me a bad vibe), then light signal fires in other forums asking them to direct people to me. So far I've called out to 67 out of 490 people. I have 205 names left, and there's 71 who left more than a name, so I can try and track a little more down.

But let's be realistic about our chances. I am resigned we can't really get that stuff anymore. Plan M goes against the laws of man, plan P runs up against the laws of physics. Plan Q involves transdimensionality, plan R involves reversing time, plan S involves superpowers, plan T involves sending a robot back in time, and plans N and O are... just... no.

EDIT: updated quips for better initials lol

EDIT 2: I think I've been able to dig up 50 more people. I'll be lucky if I got half of them right, and even luckier if half of them answer.
Still got 40 people who have left some signs for me to grind through.

EDIT 3: If by this month's end we're still at nothing, I'm giving up on this one and calling it dead and gone for good. It's safe to count it as decanonized by force majeure past this point, as there is no one left to remember it, even its author.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 24 Jun 2023 19:25:20
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6604 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2023 :  05:05:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, total shame. I half remember Ed's "ghost ships" post and by the time I decided to start cataloguing Ed's lore here and remembered the Loremaster site and tried to go back to it and get what I could off it, it was gone.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2023 :  18:52:38  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, found a new avenue of attack: if anyone cared, the WotC forums may have been used for discussing that. I'm going to sift what's on Archive and later I'm going to look for someone who apparently saved what was in WotC in 2015, prior to the takedown. I've done what I could to get their attention - I don't know what else I can try.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6332 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2023 :  22:00:24  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definitely care.

Anything you find please send my way, I'm an obsessive hoarder of realmslore and it will keep me awake at night knowing I am missing a piece of the puzzle.

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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 03 Jul 2023 :  22:59:10  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I mean, Gary, if anyone cared then, they most likely discussed it there. Let's cross our fingers that people cared and brought it up.

If I get an answer from Solauren, I'll let you know - he was looking for a buncha peeps to help classify the stuff manually, though maybe he's done by now.

EDIT: went with the first 87 pages of Archive.org on thread views on WotC, sorted by date. Come to think of it I didn't need the first ones- anything that predates them is worthless to me. I might have been able to use later ones... hindsight is a harsh mistress. I'll try those later, I suppose.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 03 Jul 2023 23:25:56
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3734 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2023 :  22:25:02  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Someone archived the entire forum once upon a time, but the website doesn't work anymore. I tried the Wayback Machine capture, but it didn't come up with any files either. I don't know if there's any way to recover anything, but if so, that'll be a ton of stuff.

http://www.secretsofthearchmages.net/Threads/SOAM.zip

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 04 Jul 2023 :  22:36:51  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finally managed to contact them, Karsus. The thread I was looking for had absolutely nothing, but I volunteered to do my part of their herculean task, if they'd let me see the whole foramen. I might be able to sift these threads and maybe snap up a single hint as to what was asked.

Whatever I find, that's the end, though. I can't reasonably be expected to contact anyone else through twitter, or make accounts in a dozen new places to poke people about matters close to fifteen years agone. The rest of my plans are worthless.

EDIT: They are OK with me hosting the entire thing- the only obstacles are technological, my lack of savvy and so. Fingers crossed.

EDIT 2: I checked the stuff in Archive, not a soul was caught dead bringing it up it seems.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 05 Jul 2023 00:04:14
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6332 Posts

Posted - 05 Jul 2023 :  09:12:46  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well I hope it works.

If you need a hand with anything let me know. I'm not a programmer by trade but i dabble, and sometimes an extra braincells or different perspective can help.

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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 09 Jul 2023 :  20:35:46  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, I got the final WotC archive. This... isn't looking promising, I'm sorry to say.
I was able to get a copypaste of one answer, just one. As this isn't in Archive, please take my word for it that user "sfdragon" posted this.

Post transcribed in italics.
quoted from Ed Greenwood's interview section at Loremaster. I asked him about the fate of the blades too....

Unfortunately, that one is heavily NDA'd. Sorry. There are a lot of matters Realmsian I'd love to talk about, but can't - -and, yes, that's one of them. Cool things, moonblades, so lots of writers, designers, DMs, and players want to play with them.
www.loremaster.org/vbinterviews.php?do=s...

End post transcription.

That eliminates one of the answers we were looking for, at the very least. Prior to Jan 19 2010, one question, posed by sfdragon, referred to the Moonblades, and was answered with "NDA".

I'll finish combing later, but seriously, let's not expect miracles.

EDIT: Reviewed. It wasn't asked by Elaine Cunningham, but by sfdragon; I have strong reason to believe this question was posted between Jan 18 and Jan 19 2010, as sfdragon has a previous post where he doesn't bring it up, and he explicitly says he asked. If so, we can conclude it is in fact one of the last 2 questions, the ones asked between JAN 06 2010 and JUN 12 2010.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 09 Jul 2023 22:36:11
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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 10 Jul 2023 :  01:46:10  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-Yeah, wasn't fully sure. That website sprung up near the end of the lifespan of the WotC boards anyway, so makes sense. I thought maybe there'd be a little cross-posting, but with most authors on the WotC boards to begin with, those that weren't (ie Ed Greenwood most notably) having stuff copied to the forums from here, and the boards themselves becoming much less trafficked and community oriented around the time that site was trying to establish itself (2010ish), makes sense.

-Well, there's still a treasure trove of stuff in the WotC archives themselves, so that's good at least.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 10 Jul 2023 01:46:52
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Italian Archmage Karsus
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Posted - 10 Jul 2023 :  04:13:38  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Widening my search a little bit I've come across another near-hit.

I cite The_Silverssword on his Aug 15 2010 re: New FR sourcebook announced. Please take this quote on faith; I am ready to offer proof, if required, but I cannot confirm it is the full answer. Cited text in italics.
Id be happy too, after all it was my question Ed was answering when he made this revelation, whats interesting is I didnt even ask about it, Ed just went off and spilled some more beans, I love Ed!
Its in the Ed Greenwood interview section on loremaster.org page 15, second post down. Eds exact words were:

"Here's the real secret: if you read my Realms novels, you'll occasionally "hear" characters swearing by "all the Watching Gods."
Well, unbeknownst to all but a few sages and ancient elves, that phrase, "the Watching Gods," refers to an old, old belief among intelligent races that there are far fewer actual gods than most mortals believe, and that these fewer "Watching Gods" are unwittingly worshipped under several names by clergies and devout lay followers who see them as a variety of different beings. Some sages believe the gods themselves are partially or wholly unaware that they are "split personalities" or "aspects" of the same mighty being, while others cling to the view that this is a deliberate deception (insurance, if you will, on the part of a divine being that they will always be venerated regardless of whether this or that named god falls out of favour). A few sages believe Ao and the goddess of magic best known as Mystra are the only "uber-gods" mortals have glimpsed, and that the others are hidden behind their arrays of names (for example, just one being is behind Silvanus, Eldath, Mielikki, and most of the other nature deities).
No mortal knows the truth behind all of this, mind you, so a DM can decide whatever he or she wishes - - or choose to NOT decide, being as they can arrange matters so that mortals (including PCs) never know.
(Here, I believe, is where I'm supposed to make "Bwoohahahaha" noises.)"


Edit: italics for clarity.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 10 Jul 2023 04:18:18
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Italian Archmage Karsus
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Posted - 10 Jul 2023 :  19:56:03  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found another answer, per sfdragon.

I cite now sfdragon on his Oct 27 post re: The Thunder Blessing. Again, take my word for this.
hey dookie, The Most Esteamed Ed Greenwood has replied that the Thunderblessing is heavily NDA'd

A second post instead says:
I cite now sfdragon on a latter also Oct 27 post re: The Thunder Blessing. Again, take my word for this.
not as interesting tht RAvencloak is also NDA

Volo is NDA'd


By cross-referencing with mentions of NDAs for Ravencloak on Candlekeep, as well as NDAs for Volo, we can probably rule whether they were NDAs brought up in response to Loremaster Qs or not.

sfdragon again, I think.
btw from my latest qusestion to Ed Greenwood, concerning Laeral ARunson


ed3.pngI'm afraid Laeral's fate is firmly NDA'd at this time. Sorry.
I can promise you'll learn SOME fates of SOME Chosen in a year or so.
Ed



I cite now The_Silversword on his Nov 23 2009 post about Planes of FR. Again, you'll need to take this on faith.
Perhaps Ao even favors Abeir over Toril. He did get less headaches from the Abeiran dimension of the Forgotten Realms as he had to step in and reprimand the Gods of Toril during the Time of Troubles. Or did the Primordial lords also needed some firm reminders now and then....?




Well the Elemental Lords were never cast out during the Time of Troubles, or maybe Ao cast them out to Abeir?

And Ed answered my questions about Abeir's Shadowfell & Feywild on loremaster.org

"All of the planes are interlinked, in ways most mortals don't fully understand. There are periodic gates between them, they temporarily and in different places impinge on each other (so one can walk "through the mists" from one to another, often without realizing it or in a different place from where such a walk was possible previously. Then there are more or less permanent gate/portal "hubs" like Sigil, ways in which some planes can "jump" travellers into another plane when certain spells are used or rifts or other planar phenomena develop, and so on. I would say the Shadowfell and Feywild accessed by Abeir and Toril are the same planes, but the two worlds access them in vastly different places.
How one might travel depends on the purpose, urgency, and nature of the trip (if you see what I mean)."

So I would say that this confirms the exsistence of Feyspace and Shadowspace.

He also ansered my question regarding Abeirspace, which sadly looks like it does not exsist.

"If you spelljammed up off Abeir, where you found yourself would depend on WHEN you left the surface of Abeir.
If it was immediately before, during, or after its "collision/passing through/intersection with" Toril, you would be in Realmspace (in probably very dangerous "weather" of bursts of spontaneous, uncontrolled lightning, vortices of destructive winds, wild magic, and other hairy, ferocious and everchanging side-effects of the two worlds "passing through" each other).
If it was long before or well after that time (more than a perhaps six months or so, either way), you'd find yourself lost in the phlogiston...somewhere. (I.e. up to your DM what the nearest crystal spheres would be.) Or in another dimension altogether (again, according to your DM's desires)."


I cite the_silversword again.
Interesting discussion going on here. I'm not sure if it could really be answered. I have a feeling an "official" answer would be something like "However you want to do it in your campaign". Personaly I agree that the souls are one with the Plane and the God, so if the god and plane are destyoed, so then are all them souls, however I think Kelemevor has some jurisdiction there and he does have the Fate domain, so maybe he knew something was up and lead souls he deemed worthy to safety? I personaly dont want to see all of Mystras faithful souls get obliterated, now all them Dark Dwarf souls can burn for all I care!


you could ask, but you might get a nda answer



That wouldn't surprise me at all. I am so sick of NDAs. Even ED's answer to my roll of years question was NDAd. Like I'm going to go oh I know all the year names for the next 100 years so I dont need to buy anymore Realms products. They really need to do something with all those outstanding NDAs that will moslt likely never see the light of day, Like make a massive Realmslore article or something. Theyre sitting on a gold mine of Realmslore and should really do something with it.


Another unlucky cite to the_silversword, on July 04 2010:
Yes, gunpowder still doesnt work. I asked Ed about this on Loremaster, unfortunatly that site is underconstruction at the moment so I cant post Ed's quote, but the jist of his answer was that, yes technology still has problems functioning properly in the Realms, but ofcourse the Gondsmen have discovered some exceptions, of course Ed didnt elaborate on these exceptions, so really I guess its up to the DM on whether or not to have gunpowder or ray guns in their Realms.

Citing the_silversword again, "Any info on Hoar?" Sep 24 2009:
Even Some More Hoar Lore!!

Got it from the Man himself (Ed Greenwood)! Hoar/ Assuran is a totally Realmsian deity. No interloper status for him! Hoar is an actual creation of Ed. No designers added him in later. the Untheric and Mulhorandi panetheons as originally enviosed by Ed was asian in nature, but the desighners changed it up. But Hoar is an all orginal creation! Good to know.

You can read Ed's response to my question here.

He also sheds some light on the gods in General, that some of you might find disturbing.

I see Hoar as one of the "Watching Gods", because hes all original baby!


Dragon9 attributes something to Ed Greenwood in "Does LFR assume characters are morally ambiguous mercenaries?" Oct 12 2009. I believe it might refer to this, but seems to go further than that particular answer. http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12023&whichpage=63#269544
Nooo! Don't cast raise dead ont hat horse! besides, we already had someone get word from the... ahem... horse's mouth (Messiuer Greenwood) that Kelemvor wouldn't have his usual anti-undead zeal for Revenants and would actually try to help them return to the peace of the grave by assisting them in completing whatever task would lead to that end. His followers may not have a good taste in their mouth about it, but so sayeth kelemvor! (by way of Ed) Tongue out

I cite now gray_richardson, with an unlikely source; it doesn't seem to be candlekeep, but it doesn't mean it's Loremaster. creater races, May 18 2010.
Didn't the Batrachi become the Slaad race?


Actually, if I recall correctly, I think that Brian James intended the Batrachi to be the forerunners of the Neraphim, a planar race introduced in the Planar Handbook see this web article here: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/200...

The Neraphim look a lot like slaadi, but are a distinct race, and are often confused with slaadi. Read the sidebar on p.5 of the Grand History of the Realms. It establishes that after the Batrachi war with the Titans/Jotunbrud of Annam, the surviving Batrachi fled to a plane in the Realms cosmology, which used to be called Limbo, but which is now called The Supreme Throne. Once ensconced there, Ramenos, the patron god of the Batrachi, transformed them a second time, presumably to conform better to the environment of the plane, where I assume they became the race now known as Neraphim, which again, look an awful lot like the slaadi, which also live on the plane of the Supreme Throne, formerly known as Limbo. The sidebar stresses that the slaadi do also live on the plane, and that the two races are often confused.

It reveals that Bazim-Gorag, the Firebringer, though confused with a slaad lord, is actually a remnant of the Batrachi empire, and considers himself a "Batrachi lord", which he claims is far more powerful than any common fiend, though that could be mere hyperbole, but at least know his stats from Champions of Ruin, if not also that issue of Dungeon he was introduced in.

Ed Greenwood revealed in a post on-line that slaadi colonized the Realms cosmology from the Great Wheel, which has lots of links to the FR cosmology. In fact, he says that the Great Wheel plane of Limbo has lots of planar rifts and soft borders that leak into other cosmologies and universes, due to the chaotic nature of that plane. Presumably when the slaadi settled in the FR cosmology, they named their new plane Limbo after their home plane, which remained the name of the plane until Cyric adopted it as his "Supreme Throne" circa 1371 DR (or thereabouts, I can't recall the exact date) when he fled there after getting chased out of the Fugue Plane.


I cite now sfdragon on "when will mystra be back?" Nov 04 2010.
hearing things....
A while back I asked something to Mr Greenwood about :
the weave is the essence of mystra, and all magical items from that time were created with the weave.

it was a three part question, but the last one was something like

with all the magical items Elminster fed the Symbul, and the combined fragments of the weave combined within her, does she become the next Mystra?

or something like that, anyway.

the first twwo were yes and yes.

the last was NDA.


so as far as we can tell you, read Elminster must Die and draw your own conclusions



Praise the Art


EDIT the Final: I think that's it.

Thanks for playing, everyone.

Edited by - Italian Archmage Karsus on 10 Jul 2023 23:20:35
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe

104 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2023 :  03:49:55  Show Profile Send Italian Archmage Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK, I've set everything straight for ease of reading.

======
>>Let's start by the cites that are transcribed and explicitly from Loremaster, in WotC forums. I underline the section we suspect is from Ed's pen. I've removed excessive spacing.
I cite The_Silverssword on his Aug 15 2010 re: "New FR sourcebook announced". Please take this quote on faith; I am ready to offer proof, if required, but I cannot confirm it is the full answer. Cited text in italics.
Id be happy too, after all it was my question Ed was answering when he made this revelation, whats interesting is I didnt even ask about it, Ed just went off and spilled some more beans, I love Ed!
Its in the Ed Greenwood interview section on loremaster.org page 15, second post down. Eds exact words were:

"Here's the real secret: if you read my Realms novels, you'll occasionally "hear" characters swearing by "all the Watching Gods."
Well, unbeknownst to all but a few sages and ancient elves, that phrase, "the Watching Gods," refers to an old, old belief among intelligent races that there are far fewer actual gods than most mortals believe, and that these fewer "Watching Gods" are unwittingly worshipped under several names by clergies and devout lay followers who see them as a variety of different beings. Some sages believe the gods themselves are partially or wholly unaware that they are "split personalities" or "aspects" of the same mighty being, while others cling to the view that this is a deliberate deception (insurance, if you will, on the part of a divine being that they will always be venerated regardless of whether this or that named god falls out of favour). A few sages believe Ao and the goddess of magic best known as Mystra are the only "uber-gods" mortals have glimpsed, and that the others are hidden behind their arrays of names (for example, just one being is behind Silvanus, Eldath, Mielikki, and most of the other nature deities).
No mortal knows the truth behind all of this, mind you, so a DM can decide whatever he or she wishes - - or choose to NOT decide, being as they can arrange matters so that mortals (including PCs) never know.
(Here, I believe, is where I'm supposed to make "Bwoohahahaha" noises.)"



I cite now The_Silversword on his Nov 23 2009 post about "Planes of FR". Again, you'll need to take this on faith.
Perhaps Ao even favors Abeir over Toril. He did get less headaches from the Abeiran dimension of the Forgotten Realms as he had to step in and reprimand the Gods of Toril during the Time of Troubles. Or did the Primordial lords also needed some firm reminders now and then....?

Well the Elemental Lords were never cast out during the Time of Troubles, or maybe Ao cast them out to Abeir?

And Ed answered my questions about Abeir's Shadowfell & Feywild on loremaster.org

"All of the planes are interlinked, in ways most mortals don't fully understand. There are periodic gates between them, they temporarily and in different places impinge on each other (so one can walk "through the mists" from one to another, often without realizing it or in a different place from where such a walk was possible previously. Then there are more or less permanent gate/portal "hubs" like Sigil, ways in which some planes can "jump" travellers into another plane when certain spells are used or rifts or other planar phenomena develop, and so on. I would say the Shadowfell and Feywild accessed by Abeir and Toril are the same planes, but the two worlds access them in vastly different places.
How one might travel depends on the purpose, urgency, and nature of the trip (if you see what I mean)."


So I would say that this confirms the exsistence of Feyspace and Shadowspace.

He also ansered my question regarding Abeirspace, which sadly looks like it does not exsist.

"If you spelljammed up off Abeir, where you found yourself would depend on WHEN you left the surface of Abeir.
If it was immediately before, during, or after its "collision/passing through/intersection with" Toril, you would be in Realmspace (in probably very dangerous "weather" of bursts of spontaneous, uncontrolled lightning, vortices of destructive winds, wild magic, and other hairy, ferocious and everchanging side-effects of the two worlds "passing through" each other).
If it was long before or well after that time (more than a perhaps six months or so, either way), you'd find yourself lost in the phlogiston...somewhere. (I.e. up to your DM what the nearest crystal spheres would be.) Or in another dimension altogether (again, according to your DM's desires)."


I cite now sfdragon on January 19, 2010, "Starym clan moonblade question."
quoted from Ed Greenwood's interview section at Loremaster. I asked him about the fate of the blades too....

Unfortunately, that one is heavily NDA'd. Sorry. There are a lot of matters Realmsian I'd love to talk about, but can't - -and, yes, that's one of them. Cool things, moonblades, so lots of writers, designers, DMs, and players want to play with them.
www.loremaster.org/vbinterviews.php?do=s...


I cite sfdragon on Oct 30 2009, "So what happens to mystras faithful?"
btw from my latest qusestion to Ed Greenwood, concerning Laeral ARunson

ed3.pngI'm afraid Laeral's fate is firmly NDA'd at this time. Sorry.
I can promise you'll learn SOME fates of SOME Chosen in a year or so.
Ed


======
>>We proceed by adding information that was paraphrased, rather than cited, but is unequivocally attributed to Loremaster.
Citing the_silversword again, "Any info on Hoar?" Sep 24 2009:
Even Some More Hoar Lore!!

Got it from the Man himself (Ed Greenwood)! Hoar/ Assuran is a totally Realmsian deity. No interloper status for him! Hoar is an actual creation of Ed. No designers added him in later. the Untheric and Mulhorandi panetheons as originally enviosed by Ed was asian in nature, but the desighners changed it up. But Hoar is an all orginal creation! Good to know.

You can read Ed's response to my question here.

He also sheds some light on the gods in General, that some of you might find disturbing.

I see Hoar as one of the "Watching Gods", because hes all original baby!


Another unlucky cite to the_silversword, on July 04 2010, "Clockwork technology in FR":
Yes, gunpowder still doesnt work. I asked Ed about this on Loremaster, unfortunatly that site is underconstruction at the moment so I cant post Ed's quote, but the jist of his answer was that, yes technology still has problems functioning properly in the Realms, but ofcourse the Gondsmen have discovered some exceptions, of course Ed didnt elaborate on these exceptions, so really I guess its up to the DM on whether or not to have gunpowder or ray guns in their Realms.

======
>>We continue with references to NDAs at Loremaster. I will underline subjects where I assume the NDA was expressed on Loremaster dot org.
I cite the_silversword again, for Oct 29 2009, "So what happens to mystras faithful?":
Interesting discussion going on here. I'm not sure if it could really be answered. I have a feeling an "official" answer would be something like "However you want to do it in your campaign". Personaly I agree that the souls are one with the Plane and the God, so if the god and plane are destyoed, so then are all them souls, however I think Kelemevor has some jurisdiction there and he does have the Fate domain, so maybe he knew something was up and lead souls he deemed worthy to safety? I personaly dont want to see all of Mystras faithful souls get obliterated, now all them Dark Dwarf souls can burn for all I care!

you could ask, but you might get a nda answer

That wouldn't surprise me at all. I am so sick of NDAs. Even ED's answer to my roll of years question was NDAd. Like I'm going to go oh I know all the year names for the next 100 years so I dont need to buy anymore Realms products. They really need to do something with all those outstanding NDAs that will moslt likely never see the light of day, Like make a massive Realmslore article or something. Theyre sitting on a gold mine of Realmslore and should really do something with it.


I cite now sfdragon on his Oct 27 2009 post re: The Thunder Blessing. Again, take my word for this.
hey dookie, The Most Esteamed Ed Greenwood has replied that the Thunderblessing is heavily NDA'd

======
>>The following are likely not from Loremaster, possible errors on my part. I start with the ones that leave me room for doubt; at the bottom are those I almost certain are errors on my part.

Dragon9 attributes something to Ed Greenwood in "Does LFR assume characters are morally ambiguous mercenaries?" Oct 12 2009. I believe it might refer to this, but seems to go further than that particular answer; that would imply it was in Loremaster. http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12023&whichpage=63#269544
Nooo! Don't cast raise dead ont hat horse! besides, we already had someone get word from the... ahem... horse's mouth (Messiuer Greenwood) that Kelemvor wouldn't have his usual anti-undead zeal for Revenants and would actually try to help them return to the peace of the grave by assisting them in completing whatever task would lead to that end. His followers may not have a good taste in their mouth about it, but so sayeth kelemvor! (by way of Ed) Tongue out

I cite now sfdragon on a latter also Oct 27 post re: The Thunder Blessing. One of those NDAs at least is expressed here, to him, so he might reference it, rather than Loremaster. http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10427&whichpage=21#215022
not as interesting tht RAvencloak is also NDA

Volo is NDA'd


I have confirmed that gray_richardson was not citing Loremaster on May 18 2010, "creater races"[sic]. The source is a perfect match for the information on: http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3684&whichpage=7#71714
I cite now gray_richardson, with an unlikely source; it doesn't seem to be candlekeep, but it doesn't mean it's Loremaster. creater races, May 18 2010.
Didn't the Batrachi become the Slaad race?


Actually, if I recall correctly, I think that Brian James intended the Batrachi to be the forerunners of the Neraphim, a planar race introduced in the Planar Handbook see this web article here: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/200...

The Neraphim look a lot like slaadi, but are a distinct race, and are often confused with slaadi. Read the sidebar on p.5 of the Grand History of the Realms. It establishes that after the Batrachi war with the Titans/Jotunbrud of Annam, the surviving Batrachi fled to a plane in the Realms cosmology, which used to be called Limbo, but which is now called The Supreme Throne. Once ensconced there, Ramenos, the patron god of the Batrachi, transformed them a second time, presumably to conform better to the environment of the plane, where I assume they became the race now known as Neraphim, which again, look an awful lot like the slaadi, which also live on the plane of the Supreme Throne, formerly known as Limbo. The sidebar stresses that the slaadi do also live on the plane, and that the two races are often confused.

It reveals that Bazim-Gorag, the Firebringer, though confused with a slaad lord, is actually a remnant of the Batrachi empire, and considers himself a "Batrachi lord", which he claims is far more powerful than any common fiend, though that could be mere hyperbole, but at least know his stats from Champions of Ruin, if not also that issue of Dungeon he was introduced in.

Ed Greenwood revealed in a post on-line that slaadi colonized the Realms cosmology from the Great Wheel, which has lots of links to the FR cosmology. In fact, he says that the Great Wheel plane of Limbo has lots of planar rifts and soft borders that leak into other cosmologies and universes, due to the chaotic nature of that plane. Presumably when the slaadi settled in the FR cosmology, they named their new plane Limbo after their home plane, which remained the name of the plane until Cyric adopted it as his "Supreme Throne" circa 1371 DR (or thereabouts, I can't recall the exact date) when he fled there after getting chased out of the Fugue Plane.


I cite now sfdragon on "when will mystra be back?" Nov 04 2010. The answer he describes has a perfect match outside Loremaster. http://candlekeep.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13186&whichpage=66#315560
hearing things....
A while back I asked something to Mr Greenwood about :
the weave is the essence of mystra, and all magical items from that time were created with the weave.
it was a three part question, but the last one was something like
with all the magical items Elminster fed the Symbul, and the combined fragments of the weave combined within her, does she become the next Mystra?
or something like that, anyway.
the first twwo were yes and yes.
the last was NDA.
so as far as we can tell you, read Elminster must Die and draw your own conclusions
Praise the Art

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