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 What do we know about Alias' other sisters/clones?
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varyar
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2024 :  21:05:09  Show Profile Send varyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hey all,

I'm curious what we know about the clone sisters of Alias from Azure Bonds. Three of them, Jade, Cat and Zhara, appear in various novels, but there were twelve originally.

"The tables and banners were gone, replaced by twelve biers. Each funeral stand was occupied by a body." (Azure Bonds, pg 435 - Kindle version)

So what about the other nine? Is there any information about them beyond the brief descriptions in Azure Bonds?

One dressed in Mulhorandi armor
One dressed in wolfhide robes and a headpiece of the north
One dressed like a Waterdeep courtesan
One dressed like a Moonshae druid
One "wrapped in black" armed with "eastern weapons" (Kara Tur, presumably)

Did any of them ever appear in books, stories, or articles?

Edited by - varyar on 23 Jun 2024 21:06:26

TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
968 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2024 :  22:38:23  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nope, you got it all right there. Obviously Alias and Cat got the most play in novels followed by Jade and Zhara with small appearances. The others remain unknown.
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varyar
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2024 :  22:53:20  Show Profile Send varyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cool - thank you!
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe

136 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2024 :  08:17:52  Show Profile Send Athreeren a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There was a little more actually. The Bestiary of the Realms has an Alias vessel template that tells a bit more about what the clones have in common. And although Alias, Jade, Cat and Zhara are the only ones who have speaking roles in the Finder's Stone trilogy, they discuss the fate of a few others. Zhara says she has "met three others. One is a sage in Candlekeep, one a mage in Immersea, one a warrior like yourself from the eastern lands. I know of two others. One was a thief who was murdered this past spring [Jade]. The other is a lady of some power in Waterdeep."
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6360 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2024 :  12:21:05  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is a female ninja with some exceptional statistics in the first act of Ochimo the Spirit Warrior.

She is otherwise completely unknown, but i would put her there if i had to.

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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
968 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2024 :  14:27:53  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren

There was a little more actually. The Bestiary of the Realms has an Alias vessel template that tells a bit more about what the clones have in common. And although Alias, Jade, Cat and Zhara are the only ones who have speaking roles in the Finder's Stone trilogy, they discuss the fate of a few others. Zhara says she has "met three others. One is a sage in Candlekeep, one a mage in Immersea, one a warrior like yourself from the eastern lands. I know of two others. One was a thief who was murdered this past spring [Jade]. The other is a lady of some power in Waterdeep."



Yep. The information on the other Alias vessels is taken from one passage in Azure Bonds and another in Song of the Saurials. FWIW, I wrote that entry in Bestiary of the Realms. :-)

Edited by - TomCosta on 24 Jun 2024 14:48:54
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
968 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2024 :  14:52:47  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

There is a female ninja with some exceptional statistics in the first act of Ochimo the Spirit Warrior.

She is otherwise completely unknown, but i would put her there if i had to.



The picture of the woman ninja shows her to be Asian, but I suppose she could be reinterpreted as an Alias clone. Was there something that connected that ninja to Alias or are you just thinking it would be neat?

Edited by - TomCosta on 24 Jun 2024 14:54:00
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1277 Posts

Posted - 24 Jun 2024 :  23:04:20  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wish we got to know more about all of them. Cat appears in a few other novels with Giogi, like Cormyr (the novel).

Even though Jade didn't get much screen time, it is pretty touching the way Olive remembers her throughout the Wyvern's Spur. Jade did more to develop Olive's character than anything else; and in a way Olive is the real hero of the Finder's Stone trilogy (since Alias isn't in the 2nd novel).
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6360 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2024 :  07:37:17  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

There is a female ninja with some exceptional statistics in the first act of Ochimo the Spirit Warrior.

She is otherwise completely unknown, but i would put her there if i had to.



The picture of the woman ninja shows her to be Asian, but I suppose she could be reinterpreted as an Alias clone. Was there something that connected that ninja to Alias or are you just thinking it would be neat?



There was nothing else to the choice other than she was a warrior of sorts and had unusually exceptional stats (the lowest being 12 i believe).

She is also a newbie which we would expect from a newly hatched alias clone.

And she has absolutely no backstory given, so nothing to contradict.


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varyar
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2024 :  12:39:19  Show Profile Send varyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something I noticed while digging through Azure Bonds is a reference to one of her creators imbuing her with "the power to keep death from her" (Kindle version pg. 408). We know Alias (or at least her sisters) can be killed, so does that mean they don't age?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11770 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2024 :  14:39:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by varyar

Something I noticed while digging through Azure Bonds is a reference to one of her creators imbuing her with "the power to keep death from her" (Kindle version pg. 408). We know Alias (or at least her sisters) can be killed, so does that mean they don't age?



Considering they're essentially constructs (i.e. they aren't clones necessarily and had no youth), I would not be surprised by the idea that they are effectively immortal OR will just suddenly "stop" rather than traditional aging. They might be construed as advanced simulacrums or magen, and a major question that I don't know if it was ever answered.... can they reproduce?

My favorite theory in regards these is that one of the Alias clones was Midnight (aka future Mystra... with truename Ariel <=> leirA), and that it was through the aid of Phalse (an avatar of Leira in the form of a "beholder" with mouth stalks instead of eye stalks... somewhat resembling a deepspawn as well). We know that "Phalse" created at least 12 of these alias clones.... but do we truly know if that was the extent... or was that what we were led to believe to prevent further snooping?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1277 Posts

Posted - 25 Jun 2024 :  23:02:31  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Grubb confirmed not too long ago that Alias won't die of old age, I think if you search this forum you can find the reference. It makes sense that the clones who were born as adults would be ageless. But yeah, she can be killed as Jade Moore was disintegrated.

I think even though they all look like Cassandra, they can be of different races?

Also they can reproduce as Giogi and Cat had a baby.
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varyar
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2024 :  00:34:24  Show Profile Send varyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by varyar

Something I noticed while digging through Azure Bonds is a reference to one of her creators imbuing her with "the power to keep death from her" (Kindle version pg. 408). We know Alias (or at least her sisters) can be killed, so does that mean they don't age?



Considering they're essentially constructs (i.e. they aren't clones necessarily and had no youth), I would not be surprised by the idea that they are effectively immortal OR will just suddenly "stop" rather than traditional aging. They might be construed as advanced simulacrums or magen, and a major question that I don't know if it was ever answered.... can they reproduce?

My favorite theory in regards these is that one of the Alias clones was Midnight (aka future Mystra... with truename Ariel <=> leirA), and that it was through the aid of Phalse (an avatar of Leira in the form of a "beholder" with mouth stalks instead of eye stalks... somewhat resembling a deepspawn as well). We know that "Phalse" created at least 12 of these alias clones.... but do we truly know if that was the extent... or was that what we were led to believe to prevent further snooping?



What? Someone named Phalse would never lie after admitting to lying to their co-conspirators!

Very cool theory!

So here's the full list per Azure Bonds, The Wyvern's Stone and Song of the Saurials:

1 - Jade
2 - Cat
3 - Zhara
4 - Mulhorandi
5 - Northerner
6 - Waterdhavian lady
7 - Moonshae druid
8 - warrior in the East
9 - sage in Candlekeep
10 - mage in Immersea
11 - ?
12 - ?

(One of the two unknown sisters may or may not appear in my next DM's Guild product)
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redking
Learned Scribe

141 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2024 :  18:01:44  Show Profile Send redking a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TomCostaYep. The information on the other Alias vessels is taken from one passage in Azure Bonds and another in Song of the Saurials. FWIW, I wrote that entry in Bestiary of the Realms. :-)


Love the template, but if you ever revise it, I recommend that you lower the flat ability scores for the template from 17 to 15. 15 is the top score of the elite stat array, and represents a very competent person. 15 all around would be more than enough for an Alias clone.
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1277 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2024 :  20:21:02  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think all 17s is what Alias had in the original 1st/2nd edition sourcebooks, so it was probably kept.

In terms of the list of Alias clones, I'm pretty sure that 2. Cat and 10. Mage in Immersea are the same clones since Cat is a mage in Immersea.
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varyar
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 26 Jun 2024 :  23:14:50  Show Profile Send varyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I think all 17s is what Alias had in the original 1st/2nd edition sourcebooks, so it was probably kept.

In terms of the list of Alias clones, I'm pretty sure that 2. Cat and 10. Mage in Immersea are the same clones since Cat is a mage in Immersea.



Er... um...

Can you guess it's been a while since I've read any of the books? :D
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
968 Posts

Posted - 27 Jun 2024 :  18:45:13  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seravin is correct. I kept the 17s from previous 1E and 2E write ups. I thought about lowering them to 16 or even 15, but decided to stay consistent with the existing lore especially since we didn't see a lot of ability score changes between 1e/2e and 3e except usually to see them go higher given 3e's math. Now in 5E, I could see lowering them. Not sure if I'd go 15 or 16, but probably wouldn't stay at 17.
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1277 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2024 :  22:11:38  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by varyar

quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I think all 17s is what Alias had in the original 1st/2nd edition sourcebooks, so it was probably kept.

In terms of the list of Alias clones, I'm pretty sure that 2. Cat and 10. Mage in Immersea are the same clones since Cat is a mage in Immersea.



Er... um...

Can you guess it's been a while since I've read any of the books? :D



No worries, I have the Clyde Caldwell original painting of The Wyvern's Spur in my mancave which speaks to how much I love the Finder's Stone trilogy and all things Alias.
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varyar
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 30 Jun 2024 :  22:59:48  Show Profile Send varyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

quote:
Originally posted by varyar

quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I think all 17s is what Alias had in the original 1st/2nd edition sourcebooks, so it was probably kept.

In terms of the list of Alias clones, I'm pretty sure that 2. Cat and 10. Mage in Immersea are the same clones since Cat is a mage in Immersea.



Er... um...

Can you guess it's been a while since I've read any of the books? :D



No worries, I have the Clyde Caldwell original painting of The Wyvern's Spur in my mancave which speaks to how much I love the Finder's Stone trilogy and all things Alias.



Wow - nice, very nice! The old CRPG was one of my gateways to the Realms. I think I played it before I read the novel, but I can’t quite remember. It would have been almost the same time, at any rate.

I hope my take on one of Alias’ sisters lives up to her spirit! (She’s a major NPC in the 5E Yűlash sourcebook I’m working on for the DM’s Guild)

Jewel
The Fighting Captain
LN female Chondathan fighter
Captain Jewel isn’t the oldest human on Toril, but she’s far older than she looks. She was born in 1357 DR, one of thirteen sisters magically created as part of a complicated alliance between several malignant powers. While all of Jewel’s sisters have fallen in the years since then (at least as far as she knows), the Fighting Captain remains. She founded the Blue Brands almost fifty years ago and has sustained the company through good times and bad ever since – some of her young recruits are third generation mercenaries, and all of her soldiers adore her. “She fights,” they’ll say when asked, and not without a touch of awe. Jewel has kept the Blue Brands relatively small and, until joining with the Yűlashi rebels, out of Moonsea politics for the most part. She’s still not sure why she sided with Menesa and the others. Part of it is she respects the young warrior – there’s a resemblance there, and not just in terms of personality. (She’s never said it out loud, but Jewel wonders if Menesa is a descendent of one of her sisters.) Part of it is her desire to see Yűlash benefit from the same order and prosperity other cities in the Moonsea enjoy. But lately, she’s begun to wonder if Lady Menesa is the right one to rule the city. Is the Widow’s grip both firm and fair? And if not, what then...?

Like her sisters, Jewel is a tall redheaded woman with an intricate arcane tattoo on her right arm from the wrist to the elbow. The blue tattoo, the source of the name and member’s mark of her mercenary company, is a faintly shimmering pattern of waves and thorns around a blue rose in bloom. She rarely conceals it, even in battle – long ago, she was given a special vambrace with a glassteel ‘window’ allowing it to be seen even when Jewel is fully armored. The Fighting Captain was a firebrand in her youth and still has flashes of anger now and then, but age and experience alike have tempered her. She enjoys mentoring and advising younger leaders more than charging into battle now.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36787 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2024 :  03:28:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In one of my Lords of Waterdeep write-ups, I made the Waterdhavian Alias clone a psionicist named Sapphire. I figured lost memories was a good reason to delve into studies of the mind, and it tied into what I was doing with that Lord of Waterdeep. That particular character had lost his memories, and long before I ever thought of making him a Lord of Waterdeep, I'd decided he was a psionicist.

So I had him connect to Sapphire when he'd tried other ways to get his memory back, and failed; she intro'ed him to psionics in an attempt to help. It didn't work, but she also helped him deal with being a person without a past.

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varyar
Learned Scribe

122 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2024 :  05:19:01  Show Profile Send varyar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very cool concept!
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1277 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2024 :  08:43:34  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Psionics and Alias clones? Wooly you've combined two of my favorite things. I really would have loved a series about a psionicist in the Realms as the main protagonist, very underserved area.
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer

USA
968 Posts

Posted - 10 Jul 2024 :  17:02:14  Show Profile Send TomCosta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice Wooly!
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