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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe
117 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 20:32:24
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Hello, I was looking for the last few scraps of free official lore on the web, and I came across some stuff that I can't be sure was official. It's from the halcyon days of 1997, back when John Connor was attacked by the Terminator.
This stuff on the Vast seems to quote things from the lorebooks pretty freely, and it was linked at the TSR website.
https://web.archive.org/web/19990220105526/http://www.netspace.org/%7Edwb/vast/
This stuff on Procampur appears to be signed off on by TSR, but I can't tell if it was actually canonized at any point.
https://web.archive.org/web/19981202065857/http://www.concentric.net/%7Ejlorien/page3.html
There were also a bunch of Living City pages which appeared to be officially supported, but which I know squat about. The AOL member pages were by "TSROLucky", "KnightsLC", and "PLNotions". I know not how official this is, only that I found them through the TSR.com site.
https://web.archive.org/web/19990420084419/http://members.aol.com:80/knightslc/orders.htm (white text warning)
https://web.archive.org/web/19990208232354/http://members.aol.com/PLNotions/index.html (Also links to TSROLucky: No clue whether he could add to the canon?)
All of them were linked from this page.
https://web.archive.org/web/19990208232354/http://www.tsr.com/rpga/LivingCampaigns/livingcity/livingcityindex.html
I want to add those things to Valhaeria, if only for their historical value, but also, fanon's not really gonna help us in wiki writing. So, does anyone know whether that stuff was meant to be canonical to the game at large, canonical just to the RPGA, or plain fanon?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2023 : 23:22:52
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If it has official TSR/WotC branding and official (A)D&D or setting logos then it is (was) canon.
If it was written by recognized names, game designers and authors who've published other TSR/WotC products then it could be canon. TSR/WotC and reputable RPG sites have carefully indexed every single official D&D product ever published.
If it was random anonymous or pseudonymous stuff on the internet, no matter how it is presented or where it was found, then it's fan fic or fan homebrew.
Stuff like Living City, Living Realms, Raven's Bluff, etc has a special place in D&D/FR history.
If/when WotC actually publish anything which describes it then that published material is (was) canon. If WotC doesn't put any of these details somewhere into their products then the missing details are not canon.
Understand that these "campaign settings" were really more about community and marketing than about establishing formal lore. Many players were avidly passionate about their contributions to the Realms, but none of this material is (was) canon in the strictest sense because in the end WotC simply didn't publish it for players outside this community.
It you want strictly adhere to current official canon then you have to basically ignore everything which WotC published in past years. Even the Old Grey Box is no longer canon, in strictest terms.
If you don't care about official canon then go ahead and be inspired by anything you find anywhere, take and use what you like, ignore and discard what you don't like. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 18 Feb 2023 23:32:41 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2023 : 02:20:04
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| It looks like it's all fanlore. It's built on canon material, it seems, but wasn't actual canon from TSR/WotC. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2023 : 03:43:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Italian Archmage Karsus
There were also a bunch of Living City pages which appeared to be officially supported, but which I know squat about. The AOL member pages were by "TSROLucky", "KnightsLC", and "PLNotions". I know not how official this is, only that I found them through the TSR.com site.
https://web.archive.org/web/19990420084419/http://members.aol.com:80/knightslc/orders.htm (white text warning)
I looked at the knights. At the first glance, some seem reordered/rephrased text from City of Ravens Bluff, others homebrew.
At the second glance, City of Ravens Bluff material was both compiled and expanded from the original Living City articles in Polyhedron, at least some articles on that site are older Polyhedron version.
"Bantam Knights: Ravens Bluff's Knights of the Golden Rooster" by Wayne Straiton - from Polyhedron #115. Observably the older version; e.g. for the Roosters 3 Order specific rewards are much the same, but City of Ravens Bluff adds fourth (The Golden Sword).
"Feather and Claw: Ravens Bluff's Knights of the Griffon" by Brian Burr and James Alan - from Polyhedron #117.
"Knights of the Dove: Increase the Peace!" by David Feest, Jr. - from Polyhedron #119.
"Knights of the Hawk" by John A. Harnes - from Polyhedron #129.
Keepers of the Mystic Flame by Carl Buehler - from Polyhedron #130.
"Faithful Knights: Ravens Bluff's Knights of the Pillars of the Realm" by Brian Miller - from Polyhedron #131. Slightly edited for clarity (total costs with discounts, numbers for Fame points).
Others may or may not be of the same nature, can't be checked easily because the article list only has the original brief version in #110, but does not say where the expanded descriptions of all post-war knightly orders are.
Edit: found some Polyhedrons on teh 'net. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 26 Feb 2023 12:57:11 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2023 : 17:57:32
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Bits and pieces of the REALMS-L archives still float around online. A tremendous, chaotic, messy wonderful nightmare of a collection. Most of it is truly mediocre, some is utter trash, and some provides precious gems in the rough.
I still have some 200GB of that junk sitting on a hard disk somewhere. Never managed to sort and organize more than a small fraction of it, it's just too much, and it's basically appealing only to the people who actually participated within it. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2023 : 19:31:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Bits and pieces of the REALMS-L archives still float around online. A tremendous, chaotic, messy wonderful nightmare of a collection. Most of it is truly mediocre, some is utter trash, and some provides precious gems in the rough.
I still have some 200GB of that junk sitting on a hard disk somewhere. Never managed to sort and organize more than a small fraction of it, it's just too much, and it's basically appealing only to the people who actually participated within it.
I perused it a couple of times myself, and there was some great lore there -- but ye dancing gods, chaotic and messy is a great description of it. It was like trying to find a single bit of information in multiple email chains involving multiple people having multiple simultaneous discussions. Yeah, you could find it if you were determined, but it was akin to the proverbial needle in a haystack.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 26 Feb 2023 19:31:43 |
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Italian Archmage Karsus
Learned Scribe
117 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2023 : 22:56:22
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| What was the Realms-L archive, if I may? Organizing tedious data is kind of my middle name- I might be able to render it adequate for consumption. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2023 : 01:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Italian Archmage Karsus
What was the Realms-L archive, if I may? Organizing tedious data is kind of my middle name- I might be able to render it adequate for consumption.
Realms-L is a Mailing List. I pulled this from here. http://www.candlekeep.com/index.html
Various archives would be a collection of those mails.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2023 : 10:13:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Bits and pieces of the REALMS-L archives still float around online. A tremendous, chaotic, messy wonderful nightmare of a collection. Most of it is truly mediocre, some is utter trash, and some provides precious gems in the rough.
I still have some 200GB of that junk sitting on a hard disk somewhere. Never managed to sort and organize more than a small fraction of it, it's just too much, and it's basically appealing only to the people who actually participated within it.
And you are very welcome.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Old Websites and Canon
